In Conversation with Nero
Lissa Oliver in Conversation with Emperor Nero, hero of her novel Nero – The Last Caesar
Lissa: How did you find yourself falling into the main role of only the second book I wrote, my first to be published?
Nero: I’ve always loved writing, I write songs and poetry, and I encourage and support all writers and artists. Everyone says I’m infectious! My enthusiasm just spills out onto everyone I meet, I’m contagious! If you share my views, my politics and my passion for racehorses, music and the Arts then we’re bound to form a bond! Not everyone does, of course, but we first met when you were 23, so we were of a similar age, too. I entered State politics at 14, became emperor at 16 and destiny ordains I will never reach my 30s, so there’s that mystique, too.
You’re famous, or perhaps infamous, of course – can you tell us something about yourself that we don’t already know?
Everything! What do you know? Fat, old, bearded insane Peter Ustinov in Quo Vadis?! The gods, where do I even begin with that one! I’m quite self-conscious about my bull neck, I never go out without a neck scarf, but I’ve never been fat. Beards are so not the fashion in first century Rome, not that I could even grow one! I didn’t even need to start shaving until I was 24! I’m blonde, I have blue eyes, I like to keep my hair in long curls, down to my shoulders, Greek-style. I love the Greek fashion of short tunics in bright floral designs, which is so not the done thing in Rome! Alas, I’m destined never to be old and I’m far from insane, though the Senate would have you believe it, due to my politics! To my people, the people who really matter to me, I’m what you would call a Hollywood or rock star. And that really annoys the Senate!
And you murdered your mother?
Really? They are saying that?! My mother was put to death for attempting to assassinate me and replace me with her lover. I survived numerous assassination attempts by her before my Commander of the Guard finally took action. We could never bring her to trial, she had every lawyer in her pocket.
I met the real you in Roman biographies of your day and academic biographies of my day, so why do you think Hollywood and popular myth got it so wrong?
In a word – the Senate! The gods how they loathe me! They declared me an Enemy of the State. Do you know why? For throwing open the private grounds of my burnt-out Palace to the destitute! I wasn’t in Rome at the time of the Great Fire, but I returned at once, meeting hundreds of my peers along the route escaping to their country estates. In Rome, there were those who had no second home to escape to. They hadn’t even a single home anymore. They were destitute, with only the clothes they stood up in. So I joined with my Guards in building temporary accommodation throughout the Palace grounds and we handed out food and clothing. Some said such chores were beneath me and I brought my title into disrepute. Even more were horrified at the desecration of the Palace grounds, allowing such people in. The Senate rumbled about ethnic cleansing, as they had during the famine. I was ultimately condemned for such insensitive behaviour. Popular myth? People love a villain, don’t they? And that’s how the Senate will forever portray me.
And you fiddled while Rome burned?
Fiddled? There is no such instrument in ancient Rome! I’m not sure how that myth came about, but on that first night, as I walked about the makeshift camp, people called on me to make a speech and lift morale. But what could I possibly say to make things better? I led the crowd in a popular song instead, about a similar ancient tragedy which the people overcame, we sang through the night, a temporary escape from our own troubles.
Every law you passed distanced you more from the Senate?
We live side-by-side with the poor of Rome, the unemployed, the workers and the slaves and the tradesmen. A quarter of the population receive Dole from my personal budget. The wealthy have the luxury ground floor villas, the windows opening onto the gardens and courtyards behind; the less wealthy have the apartment blocks above, the windows opening onto the street. Often large families crammed into a single room on the top floor of a four or five-storey apartment block. Either no one else notices or no one else cares. But I noticed, from a very young age, and I care. Perhaps because I was raised by an eccentric aunt who left me to the care of her slaves, a ballet dancer and a hairdresser, who were also my tutors. I roamed the streets with a different outlook to others who lived in the Palace.
The Senate seems to think that every move I make to help the common man of Rome is a move against the wealthy. In the end I have been vilified by my own class, but worshipped by the people.
Is there one law you passed that you feel the most pride in?
The gods, dozens! Enforcing a corn ration and subsidising its price during the famine. That averted many thousands of deaths. The merchants were selling it at extortionate prices to those who could afford it, so I bought the lot and gave it away in equal amounts to all, including the poor and destitute. Out of my own private purse, I should add, because the Senate refused to allow it to come out of the Public Fund. I was personally bankrupt after that, but what does that matter? I’m Emperor, I live in a Palace, I don’t need money. I’ve never had any respect for it or those who hoard it.
I banned deaths in the arena and forbade fights to the death. I’m proud of that, but it led to me being declared Enemy of the State! I also forbade senators from buying their seats with lavish shows, which came out of the Public Fund. And I decreed all lawyers charge a set fixed fee, to enable rich and poor alike to avail of their services.
Then, of course, the racehorse pension. Not a huge amount, but enough to ensure a lifelong home after racing, without the farmer being out of pocket for feed. I recognised a really good ex-racehorse struggling to pull a cart through Rome one evening, before which I’d never considered what happened to them in retirement.
It isn’t a law, but I’ve written many popular songs including one you would refer to today as a Number One Hit! People sing it all the time, and will continue to do so even up to a hundred years after my death, so your books say! Who wouldn’t be proud of that!
Have you any regrets?
Not marrying Acte. I wasn’t allowed to, but I’m Emperor, I should never have just accepted that. I should have just gone ahead anyway! But I was young, 17, and Acte hates the fame and attention. She was a slave when we met and she still prefers the simple things in life. I wanted to abdicate and we could have lived in Greece together, but Otho and my Commander, Burrus, and Seneca, my old tutor, the three people I respect most in the world, they convinced me I’d be assassinated by my successor. Acte can’t bear the thought of my life being at risk, she would never allow me to abdicate, either. I’d always be seen as a threat to a successor’s reign, not that I am. I hate this role and this life. But their whole belief system is based on greed, to aspire to the very top position in life you can reach. No one understands that I don’t want that, that all I ever wanted was to be a musician in Greece, no more than that. I certainly never wanted to be Emperor. I regret not running away to Greece with Acte. And I regret not being brave, when I need to be.
You mention Otho, and even in the biographies of your time there is clearly something special about him. Can you explain it?
He’s the original bad boy, isn’t he? He’d gone through millions of pounds of inheritance before he reached 21! He lives off the rich widows of Rome and they love him for it! Isn’t that always the way? He has no ambition whatsoever! He never looks to me for Office or political favours. I’ve never been emperor to him, just a friend. He has a heart of gold and he understands people. He understands me. Whatever our differences, I know he’s there for me, to do what’s right. And he does what’s right for others.
He no more noticed the plight of the poor than any other nobleman at Court, but he took notice when I pointed it out. He’s lazy and he’d do nothing on his own count – but he’ll do everything that he knows is of importance to me. If destiny is correct, I know that my family, household and policies will be safe in his hands and that he will make the same sacrifices I made, to become Emperor and see my legacy survives. We’re soulmates.
Find out Nero’s life and times in Nero - The Last Caesar
Lissa: How did you find yourself falling into the main role of only the second book I wrote, my first to be published?
Nero: I’ve always loved writing, I write songs and poetry, and I encourage and support all writers and artists. Everyone says I’m infectious! My enthusiasm just spills out onto everyone I meet, I’m contagious! If you share my views, my politics and my passion for racehorses, music and the Arts then we’re bound to form a bond! Not everyone does, of course, but we first met when you were 23, so we were of a similar age, too. I entered State politics at 14, became emperor at 16 and destiny ordains I will never reach my 30s, so there’s that mystique, too.
You’re famous, or perhaps infamous, of course – can you tell us something about yourself that we don’t already know?
Everything! What do you know? Fat, old, bearded insane Peter Ustinov in Quo Vadis?! The gods, where do I even begin with that one! I’m quite self-conscious about my bull neck, I never go out without a neck scarf, but I’ve never been fat. Beards are so not the fashion in first century Rome, not that I could even grow one! I didn’t even need to start shaving until I was 24! I’m blonde, I have blue eyes, I like to keep my hair in long curls, down to my shoulders, Greek-style. I love the Greek fashion of short tunics in bright floral designs, which is so not the done thing in Rome! Alas, I’m destined never to be old and I’m far from insane, though the Senate would have you believe it, due to my politics! To my people, the people who really matter to me, I’m what you would call a Hollywood or rock star. And that really annoys the Senate!
And you murdered your mother?
Really? They are saying that?! My mother was put to death for attempting to assassinate me and replace me with her lover. I survived numerous assassination attempts by her before my Commander of the Guard finally took action. We could never bring her to trial, she had every lawyer in her pocket.
I met the real you in Roman biographies of your day and academic biographies of my day, so why do you think Hollywood and popular myth got it so wrong?
In a word – the Senate! The gods how they loathe me! They declared me an Enemy of the State. Do you know why? For throwing open the private grounds of my burnt-out Palace to the destitute! I wasn’t in Rome at the time of the Great Fire, but I returned at once, meeting hundreds of my peers along the route escaping to their country estates. In Rome, there were those who had no second home to escape to. They hadn’t even a single home anymore. They were destitute, with only the clothes they stood up in. So I joined with my Guards in building temporary accommodation throughout the Palace grounds and we handed out food and clothing. Some said such chores were beneath me and I brought my title into disrepute. Even more were horrified at the desecration of the Palace grounds, allowing such people in. The Senate rumbled about ethnic cleansing, as they had during the famine. I was ultimately condemned for such insensitive behaviour. Popular myth? People love a villain, don’t they? And that’s how the Senate will forever portray me.
And you fiddled while Rome burned?
Fiddled? There is no such instrument in ancient Rome! I’m not sure how that myth came about, but on that first night, as I walked about the makeshift camp, people called on me to make a speech and lift morale. But what could I possibly say to make things better? I led the crowd in a popular song instead, about a similar ancient tragedy which the people overcame, we sang through the night, a temporary escape from our own troubles.
Every law you passed distanced you more from the Senate?
We live side-by-side with the poor of Rome, the unemployed, the workers and the slaves and the tradesmen. A quarter of the population receive Dole from my personal budget. The wealthy have the luxury ground floor villas, the windows opening onto the gardens and courtyards behind; the less wealthy have the apartment blocks above, the windows opening onto the street. Often large families crammed into a single room on the top floor of a four or five-storey apartment block. Either no one else notices or no one else cares. But I noticed, from a very young age, and I care. Perhaps because I was raised by an eccentric aunt who left me to the care of her slaves, a ballet dancer and a hairdresser, who were also my tutors. I roamed the streets with a different outlook to others who lived in the Palace.
The Senate seems to think that every move I make to help the common man of Rome is a move against the wealthy. In the end I have been vilified by my own class, but worshipped by the people.
Is there one law you passed that you feel the most pride in?
The gods, dozens! Enforcing a corn ration and subsidising its price during the famine. That averted many thousands of deaths. The merchants were selling it at extortionate prices to those who could afford it, so I bought the lot and gave it away in equal amounts to all, including the poor and destitute. Out of my own private purse, I should add, because the Senate refused to allow it to come out of the Public Fund. I was personally bankrupt after that, but what does that matter? I’m Emperor, I live in a Palace, I don’t need money. I’ve never had any respect for it or those who hoard it.
I banned deaths in the arena and forbade fights to the death. I’m proud of that, but it led to me being declared Enemy of the State! I also forbade senators from buying their seats with lavish shows, which came out of the Public Fund. And I decreed all lawyers charge a set fixed fee, to enable rich and poor alike to avail of their services.
Then, of course, the racehorse pension. Not a huge amount, but enough to ensure a lifelong home after racing, without the farmer being out of pocket for feed. I recognised a really good ex-racehorse struggling to pull a cart through Rome one evening, before which I’d never considered what happened to them in retirement.
It isn’t a law, but I’ve written many popular songs including one you would refer to today as a Number One Hit! People sing it all the time, and will continue to do so even up to a hundred years after my death, so your books say! Who wouldn’t be proud of that!
Have you any regrets?
Not marrying Acte. I wasn’t allowed to, but I’m Emperor, I should never have just accepted that. I should have just gone ahead anyway! But I was young, 17, and Acte hates the fame and attention. She was a slave when we met and she still prefers the simple things in life. I wanted to abdicate and we could have lived in Greece together, but Otho and my Commander, Burrus, and Seneca, my old tutor, the three people I respect most in the world, they convinced me I’d be assassinated by my successor. Acte can’t bear the thought of my life being at risk, she would never allow me to abdicate, either. I’d always be seen as a threat to a successor’s reign, not that I am. I hate this role and this life. But their whole belief system is based on greed, to aspire to the very top position in life you can reach. No one understands that I don’t want that, that all I ever wanted was to be a musician in Greece, no more than that. I certainly never wanted to be Emperor. I regret not running away to Greece with Acte. And I regret not being brave, when I need to be.
You mention Otho, and even in the biographies of your time there is clearly something special about him. Can you explain it?
He’s the original bad boy, isn’t he? He’d gone through millions of pounds of inheritance before he reached 21! He lives off the rich widows of Rome and they love him for it! Isn’t that always the way? He has no ambition whatsoever! He never looks to me for Office or political favours. I’ve never been emperor to him, just a friend. He has a heart of gold and he understands people. He understands me. Whatever our differences, I know he’s there for me, to do what’s right. And he does what’s right for others.
He no more noticed the plight of the poor than any other nobleman at Court, but he took notice when I pointed it out. He’s lazy and he’d do nothing on his own count – but he’ll do everything that he knows is of importance to me. If destiny is correct, I know that my family, household and policies will be safe in his hands and that he will make the same sacrifices I made, to become Emperor and see my legacy survives. We’re soulmates.
Find out Nero’s life and times in Nero - The Last Caesar
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Thank you for that accurate assessment, Gabriel, and for your very kind words.
No problem at all Lissa. Credit given when credit is due!!!
Mind you, I didn't answer one important point there, Gabriel, which I know from the research you meticulously carry out on your own books requires a comment. You point out that some historians question Nero's suicide and, while it cannot in itself be questioned, as with any suicide the question has to be: did he jump or was he pushed? His fear of death and inability to drive that fatal dagger home supplies that particular answer. Galba, leading a private army from Spain against Nero, issued his troops with the strict order to take Nero alive. Galba had already declared publicly his intention to have Nero put to death "in Ancient Style", a particularly horrific and humiliating public death. Nero was faced with little choice, his intention to flee to Greece no longer possible, Galba would hunt him down and catch him, leaving a private death in the arms of his friends and lover the best of options; even in that, he ultimately lacked the courage, without the support of his friend and Secretary.
When it comes to public adoration or political loathing, I instinctively know, as working class, who to side with and there will never be a leader loved by both. For up to 30 years after Nero's death, imposters claimed to be him, saying they had successfully escaped and hidden in Greece or Parthia. The public was willing to believe each of the imposters, and neighbouring empires such as Parthia even offered troops in support. Nero's successors were always on thin ice following his reign. For 50 years after his death, fresh flowers were laid daily on his tomb and his statues were dressed in the tunics he had loved to wear. As fast as the tunics were ripped down, they were replaced. His "Golden House" a Palace filled with art and open to the public, was flattened and built over by Vespasian four years after his death and The Colosseum built. Each successive emperor during what should have been Nero's lifetime needed to eradicate his shadow and overcome the public ill-feeling against them. Nero was the last of the Caesar family and the line died with him. Subsequent emperors had no great dynasty behind them to win public faith.
Only Otho went against the trend of blackening Nero's name. Defeating Galba to become emperor, completing all of Nero's unfinished projects and ensuring Nero's household and staff were made safe, Otho had even planned to marry Nero's widow, until his reign was cut short by the treachery of Vitellius. Testimony such as this, from those who knew Nero best, as well as the public adoration, led me to question the myths we have become so familiar with today, and to discover, as have all other historians, they are no more than myth.
suffered mostly because he did not value the wealthy and powerful political establishment and associated ruling class of his time.
Nero sought, and frequently succeeded in, improving Roman society.
I think one aspect of his demise was he shook up the political system so much, by paying little attention to the ruling class, eventually he paid for these positive changes indirectly with his death. He was purported to have killed himself but some historians believe he was assassinated, as happens even in our modern era to those who improve their society.
Nero had his friend Otho to lean on. He brought joy into Nero's life, they socialised together. Otho also listened to Nero's problems often or when he was upset, confused or frustrated which is written in some Greek and Roman history books were often the emotions Nero felt.
Nero was a tortured soul trying his best to improve living condtions in Rome.
In return the ruling class my have assascinated Nero but certainly muddied his character so that after his death Nero was disgraced. Lies about him were written into the history of Rome at the time by those who Nero would not ingratiate, slanderous stories believed even now and conveyed by many modern historians and authors.
Those who planned against Nero sometimes pretended to be his friends.
Nero shows us we must learn who our true friends are, those are not our friends, and cherish real friendship.
A historical figure worth reading as we can learn from Nero even in our technological age.
Lissa Oliver's book Nero is excellently written. She writes the truth about the nature of Nero, a great Roman leader.