Here I stand, I can do no other

This is the blog post that I never wanted to write, but I owe it to all genderqueer and trans* writers and readers out there. I'm hoping that my experience may serve to make the "community" a safe place for us – others like me. At present, I don't know if the aftermath of this – action, reaction, consequence, if I understand correctly – will allow my Muse to survive. After this, I frankly don't know if I'll have the strength to go on writing using this name and this identity. This Self.

I've taken most of this from an email I sent a prominent blogger. I've changed names to protect the innocent and the guilty both.


The Call

I could quite literally write a book about my experiences and my thoughts on the matter. If something almost kills you, it's bound to provoke some Heavy Thinking. So apologies as this is going to be long.

I did not want to get involved in this at all. I've been "outed" several times on the internet. A former co-writer of mine who's seen me in RL has repeatedly outed me. I have been referred to on the internet as "one vicious tranny". A gay guy I've met in my London-based writing group has only recently outed me to a violently hateful group, then added smugly that he was now going home to "have real gay sex".

These experiences are rather typical, I'm afraid. It's why I only meet people in person as a writer who I trust to not go out there and tell the world who I "really" am (as we can see, my judgment is less than perfect - friends can turn to enemies rather more quickly than I like, especially when writers are involved).


Refusal to Heed the Call

This is not to accuse. I feel awful for first trying to stay invisible and secondly trying to ignore it, while my trans* friends were/are suffering because they are "out" about their status, while I was busy telling myself "I'm a writer, not a human rights activist".

Yeah, I guess Ezra Pound was just a poet, too.

The loss of "safe space" thanks to the rabid hate mob is probably at the core of the issue why I've put my stuff on hold. I originally bought into the myth how "tolerant" and "accepting" "our" "community" is. Well, it is, if you're gay and physically, born, genetic male. There's a worship of the cock going on I find a little disturbing.

Regardless - one thing I believe is incredibly important in this debate is to drive home - in some minds at least - the difference between "coming out" and "passing".


Crossing the First Threshold

For sexualities other than straight, "coming out" is a traumatic, cathartic rite of passage, that, yes, creates that "gay identity", which from then on is visible. I was very relieved when I realized, actually, I'm bisexual, and it's OK to be that. I can love a person rather than a set of genitals. Being bi is, obviously, being under a "general suspicion" of cheating and being generally not trustworthy. Many lesbians tell a bisexual woman she's not "real" because she got her rocks off - even once - with a guy. Many gays call a bisexual man a "gay in denial". I do believe I never deceived anybody about my sexuality. I've gotten my rocks off with trans* people, with men and women, and it was fun every time. I'm not ashamed.

But yeah, "coming out" usually means that the enormous pressure that non-straight people live with is lifted. Wow, suddenly you float. The thing that made you consider suicide? Gone. People actually still smile at you. Some even call you brave - what a boost after you've spent most of your life cringing away and hoping that people will leave you the fuck alone, or at least not look into your head.

Now, "passing" is different. Trans* people live with this enormous pressure, but it never leaves. It's a miracle I'm alive. Between 16 and 21, I was constantly considering suicide. Then my mother died a painful, drawn-out death from cancer. And I thought "okay, throwing away a healthy, functional body is a waste and who are you to end your life when others are desperate to draw even one more breath and don't have that choice?"

Every time I considered suicide, I would remember my mother's face, just wisps of her gorgeous rich mahogany hair left, the skull visible as a herald of impending death, as she was weighing only 80 or 90 pounds. Who am I to kill myself when I'm healthy and not physically suffering?


Tests, Allies, Enemies

Then the internet. Online communities. I chose a neutral name (vashtan) and realized there's freedom in that. I've kept vashtan's gender neutral - I did not want to "deceive" anybody. Ever.

My first publications. Getting AlexANDER W. added into my German passport? HUGE rush. Unspeakable relief. The front was still lying, but the back - oh, the glorious back, the bit under "Pseudonym or Religious Name" - it finally spoke the truth. I'd become, legally, in a small part, black-on-green, Alexander W., ridding me in one fell swoop of a last name I've inherited from a wife-beating rapist father AND the wrong gender.

I was Alexander. I couldn't wait to tell everybody. The bloom rounded, tightened, seams began to appear. It was ready to burst.

I read everything about the issue. MTFs, FTMs, Intersex, intergender, trans*, genderqueer... suddenly I had words for that deep-seated unease that told me my very BONES were all wrong. Suddenly the "wow, YOU are a real man." Suddenly, all my games as a child - always the knight serving the lady, always the fighter, the bodyguard, the protector of the weak - suddenly made sense. Why even as a small child I bristled when somebody called me a "pretty girl". I wasn't. I was a boy. Imagine the heartbreak when boys at some point told me I couldn't play with them because I had long hair. I liked my long hair. I wasn't ready to give it up so I could play with the other boys. Non-conformist to the end, I guess. Boys had short hair, I refused to fit in, hence I was ousted.

Thus expelled from the boys, I tried to join the girls for company. They told me I was a boy - wild, physical, competitive. I also didn't give a toss about the current crush on some boy band. I just wanted to belong somewhere.

I didn't. I found, in the end, a bunch of outsiders who'd hang around me, because I had cool ideas and made up fun games. We were still the outsiders on the playground, but we were at least damned well entertained.


Ordeal

When my body developed, I prayed for it all to go away. I think the reason why I'm still here is largely because of one of the most powerful characters I've ever had. Silvio basically told me I was being a dumb asshole for staring at the pills in my hand and that my vertigo should at least keep me jumping from that bridge. Through all that, I've had friends (who had no idea - as far as they were concerned, I was just a bit of a tomboy), but as we've seen through things like Trevor and It Gets Better, friends sometimes aren't enough. I was a firm believer in reincarnation, but something always held me back from "trying again", as I called it back then. Reload. What's your return policy, universe?

For whatever reason, the male persona I built (or, arguably, that I am) helped me cope with the increasing pressure. Somebody calling me "Mr. Voinov" (which is just a translation of "Herr W.") takes the pressure off. It makes me smile, but there's always a tang of pain in it, too. Calling me "sir" is like if somebody tells you you're gorgeous and actually means it.

I'm coming back to "passing" now. To a trans* person, "passing" as his/her real gender is - unspeakably liberating. Suddenly, the pressure around you eases. You can BREATHE. You can even be yourself. I can't count how often I've been told I write "masculine", or even "hyper-masculine". I was told, when I started out, to write under a male pseudonym, as "the female style" is different - and women prefer books written by women, especially historicals. Or: "What woman cares about war, soldiers, or politics? They want woman issues." (Which, presumably, is about courtship, het sex, child-rearing and covering their husband's flank.) This drove me away from trying to make it in the historical mainstream - I never managed to get my head around "woman issues" - talk about biographical blocks.


Reward/Seizing the Sword

Fast forward a few years. Passing for male has quite literally enabled me to be a productive, positive member of human society. Give what I have to give - mentor, teach, give and write. I can give these because the pressure was off, the pressure keeping me contained, pressuring me into something I am emphatically NOT. If you expend all your energy fighting other people's perceptions, you have no energy left to do the important stuff, the constructive stuff.

Under such considerations, things like "I'll sell five more books if people believe I have a flesh dick dangling between my legs" aren't just laughably trivial - they don't even register. I've heard people say that they prefer women-written books to mine because "Voinov is clearly a male writer - like all of them, it's all heartless sex and violence, he just doesn't "get" romance." Some way of "passing", that! (But, hell, I take it.)

The thing is, tearing our protection away - negating our "passing" - is as traumatic as if a jeering mob out on the street were ripping your clothes off to laugh at the shape of your breasts or labia or dick and balls. I can't possibly express the amount of distress that my trans* writer friends have felt over the mob's desire to rip their clothes off. As far as I'm concerned, I have bigger balls and a bigger dick than a huge amount of born and bred males.

My sense of honour and personal integrity made me step up in defense of my trans* friends, most of whom have been bullied into submission and are scared of being made a target next. We'll all been there before. Most gay guys consider us women (I've heard some of the most vile, trans* phobic comments from gay men) – most women consider us women and do everything in their power to help society re-assert the gender binary. (Those are generalizations - I've encountered a lot of extremely supportive women of all stripes.)

While most gay men laugh us off as "not real men" (like I have to assert my masculinity to every gay man out there - even those I don't want to sleep with!), many women are truly vicious - "how dare she!"

I've always held the belief that the female hostility to trans* people is really a loathing of the traditional female role. Tearing our clothes off in public is a way to act against the "unlawful claiming of a more liberated gender". Men ARE more powerful in this society, and trans* men are seen as those refusing the female gender (while, in actuality, we're not refusing anything - it's not what we are and most of us feel an extreme disconnect to any perceived female role). We're damaged, freaks, deficient. Worse, we're cheaters, liars, impostors. We're claiming the "male privilege" not to be belittled, and maybe we even end up wielding power and authority and have respect. Yeah, how DARE we.

Some of us shrink away under the onslaught of hostility and pressure, cringing. So at war with ourselves, few of us are strong enough to fight against ourselves AND against the rest of the world. ONE of those battles is plenty.

Every time a specific prominent blogger attempts to out the most high-profile male-representing author in our genre, I want to rip her head off. Has nobody ever considered that this writer is actually who he says he is? Or would the fact that he's a prominent, visible, highly successful - and much-loved - writer in the genre have anything to do with it? The message to us trans* writers is, very much: Don't stick your head out, or we'll chop it off. Beyond a certain level of success, people are envious enough to jump on anything that makes a person vulnerable.


The Road Back

Frankly, I knew that launching Riptide would potentially "blow my cover". Who on earth is interested in trans* literature but a trans* person - and who at Riptide is clearly NOT a female? The fact that I'm being represented by an avatar, the fact that I'm not answering questions about my gender (and many tried asking them, which tells me it's something people feel they have a right to know about in detail) or what I think about women writing gay sex, or whether I get turned on when writing sex (yeah, sweetheart, want the number of inches too?) - all that immediately sparks suspicion.

The more visible I am - the more interviews I've given - the more that old pressure has come back. I've been told I'm too "soft", or "too gentle", or "too understanding", (or "too nice/generous") that a specific turn of phrase is feminine - up to my use of emoticons. People are scrutinizing everything I do - on Twitter, Facebook, there were people even re-posting blog entries from LJ that I've locked away to be only seen by friends. The pressure was mounting. Clearly, being anything but female draws suspicion, but I refused to be driven into neurosis by it. I am who I am, who I say I am.

The whole debate never considered the trans* issue. Just look at the words used: It was always "women parading as men", "women appropriating gay identities for gain and profit" or "women lying/cheating because they are sociopathic liars". It's like you're walking out in the streets, and suddenly, everybody's clothes are being ripped off and the crowd inspects us, naked, whether we pass. The border controls in the US are so intrusive that many US-based trans* people have stopped travelling. *I* am not going to fly to the US because I don't want some guy give me a body cavity search. The trans* body is more delicate, more complicated and a hell of a lot more fragile, even if you're built like an American Football player.

But while the debate went that way, us trans* writers were incapable of stopping it. Everybody speaking out on behalf of trans* writers knew that they would have their identity questioned. I was incredibly reluctant, because not only did I do a good job of "passing", but because I never saw myself as an activist for anything (I believe most of society's ills would go away if people were holding themselves to higher moral standards and realize that serving others means serving yourself).


Death

Basically, I didn't want to open myself up to the trans* phobia out there - I didn't want my gay friends to suddenly consider me as a "transman", which always means "not real man" (talk about worship of the cock) - always. Once that "trans* is attached, it conjures up images of a more or less believably mutilated female body, a more or less healthy mind inhabiting it. By being "trans", we're "less". Less strong, less healthy, less male or female. From "male" or "female", we turn into "not quite" and "less" in society's perception.

I also didn't want to speak on behalf of trans* writers. We're still all individuals, and while I know at least, off the top of my head, 7-8 genderqueer/trans* writers – and boy, their talent, how much they have to give this community that hounds them so! - I'd never claim any kind of leadership here.

Basically, I was "passing" and working behind the scenes. Every trans* writer out there knows my status. I've encouraged writers to write and share their stories (rather than lock them away for fear of BEING VISIBLE and hence VULNERABLE), telling them the community was "safe"; people were "different here". Oh hell, was I wrong, and as the lynch mob of the M/M Goodreads Group and a number of bloggers and HUNDREDS of bigoted commentators descended upon us, my heart bled for my friends who went out there and fought or hid under the same old stone of crushing guilt and self-doubt.

It's not that we don't want to be "out" - I admire both Danny Juris and Bryl Tyne for the way they go out there and represent. My choice was different. I worked behind the scenes, working subtly, helping trans* people (you start to recognize them after a while, it's like gaydar, also, I'm really good at reading people), supporting my brothers and sisters, while still "passing" as male to a society and community I simply didn't trust to "get" it. Get me (yeah, and tell me I was wrong… I was not).

I simply refused to write emails or blog posts like this one I'm writing right now to every person out there emailing me who'd doubted what I told them. Doubted my integrity over the use of a pronoun – a use that has kept me sane and productive. This is stuff I almost killed myself over – I don't believe somebody paying 3-7 bucks for any given story I've written deserves to know all this or has a right to it, let alone a moral right in the interest of "customer transparency", as the moderators of the M/M Goodreads Group have claimed, to wild cheering and shows of support.

I believe that the exact geography of my genitals is my – very personal - privacy issue. Once you tell people you're trans*, the next question is about when you'll have the operation. My body then suddenly turns into the gore-encrusted battlefield of somebody else's gender perceptions, like it's not my body at all, like I no longer have any power over it, and can't be trusted to shape it when and how I want.

At the end of the day, a trans* person is only seen as valid once their bodies conform to what cisgendered people consider acceptably male or female. If you're not having the operation (because the attempt to make a dick always results in something that most trans* men consider laughably inadequate, let alone somewhat gross-looking) - you're not valid. At the very least, people want to know whether I've started testosterone yet. Which is a question like "do you still beat your wife" - once you step onto that battlefield, you can only lose.

I chose to act as I did not to deceive anybody. I did it to find a way to live in dignity. To not spend most of my time and energy fighting a battle I cannot win. You know, because every hour I spend begging for acceptance - from very often bigoted assholes - is an hour I don't spend writing.

I chose to live as a man over explaining - for the rest of my life - why people should please, please PLEASE "allow" me to be a man, if you please, if it's not too much of an imposition, if that's OK with you, sorry to disturb your ideas of male and female a little, there. There, there, let me be invisible instead so nobody gets their assumptions challenged.

Fuck that.

I'm a proud man, I've fought and worked extremely hard for what I have achieved. I'm not used to asking anybody for their leave to be what I am. I try to act as an ethical person, supporting my male, female, trans* and queer friends, writers or not. My mother taught me to live my life in a way that I can look at myself in the mirror in the morning, every morning. Whether I look in that mirror while shaving should be irrelevant.

I'm not ashamed of myself, or my friends. I don't believe I owe anybody anything. No born and bred male - or what I call "genetic male" - has to explain why he's a man. And no woman has to explain why she's female. It's just us who are questioned, exposed and harassed the moment we show one weakness, and people react shocked and have the BALLS to be OUTRAGED when we, like a hermit crap, desperately scamper to protect our soft bellies?

I've received so many emails - before I made the blog post – about "who or what are you really"? My policy has always been, if somebody asks me, personally, in private, what I am, I do the "bees and flowers" talk. Not because I don't want to lie, but because I believe people that are actually asking might actually want to know. And I have the hope that once everybody knows at least one trans* person, they will stop harassing the others.

Maybe it's time for the T in the alphabet soup to fight for our rights, but maybe it's clearer now why we don't. It's tearing away our passing, it questions the identity we fought so hard - often against physical violence, harassment, bullying, depression, addiction and all-round derision from men and women both - to build and maintain, as we have to, to have even a shot at sanity and happiness.

I've been tempted so often to tell those people "if you need to know the shape of my genitals, you are not my friend". Which is an, I believe, understandable response, but it's also really defensive.

I don't like hurting people like that. I *still* DON'T WANT TO HURT PEOPLE THAT HURT ME, can you imagine?

Sorry for the long, long, LONG diatribe - I want to make sure everybody understands where I'm coming from, my position, my experiences that obviously shape everything I am and how I respond to the threats of my identity. I've never seen myself as an activist or a figurehead.

I've received an email - from a gay guy - telling me "to come out and be done with it". He felt that my refusal to "come out" was the ONLY thing that drove me out of the genre and this way he wouldn't be robbed of my stories. There it is - a gay guy who mistakes the roles and energies at work in "coming out" and "passing".

No, it's the prospect of being paraded naked in front of the jeering mob. No catharsis for me. No happy rainbow-flag waving gay family to welcome us. No gay identity to claim for us. All we can claim is visible, exposed, naked, soul-crushing Freakhood.

For me, "coming out" is the closest thing to destruction I've come in six years, after I stumbled, blind with tears (and I never cry), away from the London-based trans*men meeting, and considered whether I should just end it all under the Tube train on the way home. Boy, was that tempting.


Resurrection?

I'm still not sure how I should - need to - respond to it all. Do we trans* writers NEED a figurehead? Do I owe anybody to come out as a deficient male? Do I have to turn myself into a martyr for the baying mob, just because I'm writing some sexy, plotty stories about how people survive adversity and find love and redemption? Do I owe it? Do I want to read a hundred comments pouring down the hatred of me and my kind when Dear Author posts "Aleksandr Voinov Comes Out as Trans Writer" [Please, Dear Author people, don't use the word "she" or "her" when you do. Just this, please?]; do I deserve to be counted among those who are "Faking It" to quote the title of a blog post on Jesse Wave's m/m review blog? Do I?

I'm not a Trans Writer. I'm somebody who, barely, survived the journey to be male, with most of my dignity intact. I have toughened myself up enough to not flinch anymore at "vicious tranny". Like a young guy who hears "faggot" the first time, "tranny" makes me flinch. But if you keep hearing it, you stop flinching. The vicious thing about such words is that it takes a lot of flinching before you can embrace a word like that.

I don't want to fight. I don't want to spend the next years - or even the rest of my life - explaining over and over why I'm a man and not a defunct female, why I'm a man, not an impostor.

But there are kids in my community – in my true community, my true family. One little guy from Finland whose blog posts (I see them on LJ) are all about how he can't stop vomiting from the stress the community is under. Somebody who clawed his way back to sanity and has repeated told me I'm an "inspiration" and he loves me. Do I owe it to Oleg to "come out"? Should I take the barbs and arrows and poison? Should I, being strong and dignified and, as yet, unbroken, step forward BECAUSE I am strong? Do I owe people a chance to break me, in public, humiliate me and deride my writing as that of an impostor? How many emails will I get that express people's disappointment in my "deceit"? Do I stand even a remote chance to explain all this while keeping my honour and dignity intact?

Those are the main questions right now.

And now that I've done it on my blog, will I flinch at "vicious, deceitful tranny" comments or can I take it, chin held high?

And once it's over, can I still open a vein and WRITE FOR THOSE PEOPLE, keep telling that same story of hope and love triumphing over darkness? Can I? Am I strong enough?

And there I thought I could just write stories and entertain people. Tell them about hope, and love, and the amazing resilience of the human spirit. (And people are shocked I might tell those stories to an audience that will not tear me apart for what I am. Silly me, what am I thinking, withholding my only gift and talent from people spending a couple dollars while at the same time feeling entitled to know whether I have ovaries and what exactly I do in bed with my freak body.)

Bottom line - I hope the whole, sordid, undignified, toxic mess has at least led to some people questioning their assumptions about my tribe, my people, my friends and made the world on the whole less hostile for them. But me, I remain here, deeply conflicted. Is this worth the destruction of my identity?

And, will I ever reclaim enough of my dignity to write again with confidence and grace?

Will I?
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Published on November 15, 2011 12:27
Comments Showing 51-100 of 106 (106 new)    post a comment »

message 51: by Serena (new)

Serena Yates What Kate Mc. said! :-)


message 52: by Casey (new)

Casey Cox Thanks Kate, for calling me to order :)

Apologies everyone. My tongue has been reigned in and I promise to behave *blush

Hugs all round.

Sorry for pouncing on you Monica - a classic example of fingers typing before brain engages.


message 53: by Monica (new)

Monica What is wrong with calling for apologies? What is wrong with using this as a teachable moment so we can understand in a calm fashion what bothered people so we can try and be more cognizant of what we say to each other?

You made some specific statements and I wanted to address them so we could move on. If you don't address the elephant in the room, does it mean the elephant isn't still there?

There are people still making negative comments about our group and our Mods on other blogs and in other threads. As a member I feel I have a right to speak up and a duty to do my small part to try and find common ground.

I currently teach as an adjunct professor at a community college in MA. One of the classes I teach is a Learning Community Seminar called "Who Are We? Cultural Traditions and Identity to freshman. Bunker Hill Community College is one of the most diverse community colleges in the country. My class has students from all over. We have had some intense discussions in my class on the subject of how we identify ourselves. Some of my students have used terms that I find horribly offensive, while it is normal terminology to them. Only through discussion can we learn more about others and find the thread that binds us.

Do I want to move on and let this drop? Yes. But I don't want to move on when there is still so much anger and hurt out there.

I feel I have a right to respectfully disagree with anyone in our group if I choose to do so. I also feel I have a right to defend this group and our Mods if I want to do so and I do.

Where would readers be without authors and where would authors be without readers? I tell you what, if it wasn't for this group I would not have known about 3/4 of the authors here and their work. There's been tons of good press authors have received from our group and that should be acknowledged. It's the basis for the group so why would the Mods or anyone else be anti authors? It doesn't make sense to me.

I love that I actually get to talk to authors, like you. That is so awesome I can't even put it into words. The fact that you guys talk back to us and be friend us is beyond wonderful. And your time to write free stories and give your hard work away as giveaways, PRICELESS!. But we have to address how you felt attacked or threatened so it will not happen again. We have to address why I feel the bashing is now coming from those that felt attacked so we can isolate the problem and work to solve it.

People can leave the group and have the right to do so. I don't think it will cause this group to stop and it might be their loss. Maybe not, if it makes them feel whole again. With all the passion and intelligence this group has, can't we discuss and create some new measures that will prevent this from happening in the future?


message 54: by Casey (new)

Casey Cox I think the point being made Monica is that this ISN'T a thread IN that group - this is Alek's blog. We can go discuss the group and all the issues that face said group IN the group as much as we want.
:)


message 55: by Lori (last edited Nov 16, 2011 09:40AM) (new)

Lori Alek did not make the Hitler reference. I was responding to a post by Adrian. He did not call anyone Hitler either but made reference to him which offended one of our German members.

And that is part of the challenge of being a moderator. Trying to read EVERY SINGLE WORD of every single post and deciding what is offensive. How offensive is it? Is it just offensive to me? Do I base my decision on how many people I think something offends? Is just one person enough or is there some magical formula, like maybe 35% find it offensive?

How about this. How about those of you that feel I allow people to get bullied, read every single post and pm me when you find something that offends you. You can be the group police since the mods are doing such a sucky job of it. I'll start deleting posts right and left because we sure don't ever want to ever offend anyone. We won't allow anyone to link to books anymore because there may be a review that is negative and offends you. We won't allow anyone to post links to anti-gay articles in the Political section because that might be construed as condoning the sentiments of those articles. What else to we want to censor? How about the pictures posted? Some of those offend me so I'll delete them. How far do we take it? How sanitized do you want the group to be?

I would like to invite all of the trans* authors to join our group. Promote your books, educate the members, speak out when you read something offensive. Or don't. Go away, keep quiet and let the other voices be louder than yours. Your choice.

ETA: I will apologize for anything I personally said that was offensive. I'm learning and I want to learn. But if I don't know what's offensive then I can't keep from repeating the same mistakes.


message 56: by Serena (new)

Serena Yates Casey wrote: "I think the point being made Monica is that this ISN'T a thread IN that group - this is Alek's blog. We can go discuss the group and all the issues that face said group IN the group as much as we w..."

Yes, I agree, Casey. This discussion needs to be in that group, NOT on Aleks's blog.

Monica, you said: "I feel I have a right to respectfully disagree with anyone in our group if I choose to do so. I also feel I have a right to defend this group and our Mods if I want to do so and I do."

To tell you the truth, this statement makes me feel profoundly uncomfortabe. The whole situation exists because people think they have 'rights'. Can we please turn that around?

I'd like us to say "I have a duty to listen. I have a duty to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have the duty to apologize if I see that someone is hurt by what I said. And, once that apology has been accepted, I have a duty to find out what it was I said that hurt them. Then I apologize again and shut the f*ck up and do some thinking before I come back and 'defend' myself."

Hence, Kate Mc.'s idea about a safe space WITHIN the m/m group makes a LOT of sense.


message 57: by Monica (new)

Monica Hi Casey et al, I just read all of the comments after I posted mine. I get that this has now evolved into something that should be moved to the group at large. It started here because I was commenting on how I was hurt and disappointed by some of the things Alex said in his post. That's how it got going over here. I was addressing comments that he made on his page and on his blog. Others chimed in and I answered those as well.


message 58: by Casey (new)

Casey Cox Serena wrote: "I'd like us to say "I have a duty to listen. I have a duty to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have the duty to apologize if I see that someone is hurt by what I said. And, once that apology has been accepted, I have a duty to find out what it was I said that hurt them. Then I apologize again and shut the f*ck up and do some thinking before I come back and 'defend' myself.""

Hence forth added to my list of 'codes to live by' that I will consciously work towards :)

Thanks Serana - it's beautifully put.


message 59: by Monica (new)

Monica Casey wrote: "Monica wrote: "Freedom of speech isn't only convenient or right when its something we agree with. That right does extend to comments we don't like as well. At least as far as the US Constitution st..."

Casey,

I would like to address this somewhere, I'm just not sure where. Your response to me is exactly part of the problem. You interpreted something I said out of context and it turned into a negative to you when that was far from my intention.

When I addressed the freedom of speech it was in response to others saying don't give me that freedom of speech line. I mentioned that it was in the US Constitution only to acknowledge that not everyone even follows that doctrine because its a statement Americans bandy about. I know this is an international forum, that's what so cool about this group. But because of our differences sometimes common phrases to some can be interpreted differently. I have a law degree, from the US which is different from other countries, but we even interpret the same law differently. It happens. I meant no harm and if you were offended by my comment I apologize.


message 60: by Lori (new)

Lori I agree that this isn't the place for this discussion so I won't post anymore, even to correct factual errors. I did want to make sure that I set the record straight that Aleks did not make the Hitler reference though. That was an honest mistake by Monica but I would never want that to be attributed to him.

I do apologize for hijacking this thread.


message 61: by Monica (new)

Monica Moderatrix Lori wrote: "I agree that this isn't the place for this discussion so I won't post anymore, even to correct factual errors. I did want to make sure that I set the record straight that Aleks did not make the Hi..."

Thank you Lori. I didn't want to think that he said those comments. I wish him success and want Riptide to do well and for all of us to get back to a good place.

You know I am technologically challenged. So can you help me create a new thread for these discussions and/or move my comments to the new thread? Thanks.


message 62: by Lori (new)

Lori Monica wrote: "You know I am technologically challenged. So can you help me create a new thread for these discussions and/or move my comments to the new thread? Thanks..."

I'll pm you Monica.


message 63: by Monica (new)

Monica Moderatrix Lori wrote: "Monica wrote: "You know I am technologically challenged. So can you help me create a new thread for these discussions and/or move my comments to the new thread? Thanks..."

I'll pm you Monica."


Thanks.


message 64: by Casey (last edited Nov 16, 2011 10:05AM) (new)

Casey Cox Monica wrote: "Casey,
I would like to address this somewhere, I'm just not sure where. Your response to me is exactly part of the problem. You interpreted something I said out of context and it turned into a negative to you when that was far from my intention."


Which is likely one reason why Kate called me on it. I didn't see it as a negative, by the way, or offensive. I was just experessing an observation but those too can be misinterpreted.

I'm happy for you to PM me - it's an interesting discussion in the right setting. :)


message 65: by Monica (new)

Monica Serena wrote: "Casey wrote: "I think the point being made Monica is that this ISN'T a thread IN that group - this is Alek's blog. We can go discuss the group and all the issues that face said group IN the group a..."

Hi Serena, let me start by saying how nice it is to talk to you even though the circumstances aren't the best. I am a big fan of your books, follow your reviews and appreciate your thoughtful comments. Geez, that sounded like I'm an author stalker, lol.

I think you highlighted one of the issues when you asked me to consider not using the term "rights" in my comments. I certainly understand your eloquent argument and it makes sense. However, that phrase or terminology is ingrained in my DNA. I spent three years of law school having that word come apart of my daily vocabulary and even more time fighting for social justice for various causes dear to me. So I think and feel that word and use it freely in discussing/defending or analyzing various positions/statements/discussions and arguments. For whatever reason I think the words we use define who we are and I would never want someone to stop being who they are.

That said, words are very powerful and can be used for good and bad. So in some instances we need to take a look at the word or words we choose to use. No one understands that better than authors who use words to elicit reactions from their readers.

Often time we can mean the same thing but use a different word or the wrong word to get our point across. Sometimes it has to do with cultural, language, or socio-economic issues as to why we use certain words.

I totally agree with the duty. In US law we analyze whether someone has a duty to act all the time in determining liability, etc. Often times one doesn't have a legal duty to act, but has a moral duty to act. I can agree to use the term duty more often and follow your sound suggestions.

I would ask that since you have good standing on both sides, that maybe you can step up even more than you already have and try to get everyone to do just what you suggested to me. That being to follow your statement of: "I'd like us to say "I have a duty to listen. I have a duty to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have the duty to apologize if I see that someone is hurt by what I said. And, once that apology has been accepted, I have a duty to find out what it was I said that hurt them. Then I apologize again and shut the f*ck up and do some thinking before I come back and 'defend' myself."

I hope I have not offended or overstepped my place by making this suggestion to you since that is not my intention. I just feel that some of the comments that were posted her by those that have been so horribly wronged are getting out of control as well.


message 66: by [deleted user] (new)

I hope you find places that you can feel safe, Morg. I hope we can build them for you too. I'm sure Monica and Lori feel the same way.

A lot of it is listening, education and understanding. Your laying it all out like this helps oblivious cis gendered people like me understand a whole lot better. If people like you don't speak up, then I can only guess at what I'm doing wrong. So thanks for the help. :)


message 67: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov I'm more than ready to talk about the issues - drawing from many experiences, and always with the caveat that I might be wrong. I'm also happy to discuss ways to help our wider reader/writer community overcome the rifts.

I'm talking to a number of bloggers about this, and we are looking at various venues - the M/M Romance group did come up, but it was cautioned (nbot just from me), that it needs to become a safe space for trans/queer people first - that includes writers and readers.


message 68: by Monica (new)

Monica Aleksandr wrote: "I'm more than ready to talk about the issues - drawing from many experiences, and always with the caveat that I might be wrong. I'm also happy to discuss ways to help our wider reader/writer commun..."

YES! Please guide us on how we can make it so. This is the first thing I talk about with my college students the first day of class that my classroom has to be a safe haven for everyone to learn so no making fun of anyone and we have to be as respectful as possible to learn and grow.

Lori just started a new thread as I asked called healing the rift. Please post there with some suggestions. I will totally back that.

I consider myself to be a very smart and open person. However, I am just learning about the trans community and until all the issues I had no idea that I needed to use the pronoun of the person as they saw their self. I hope that makes sense.

Morg and your voice is needed so mistakes can be avoided and we can truly live up to what are group is supposed to be about. Please Alexs, please?


message 69: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov I can do that - I'm definitely ready to do that part of my job. What's the link?


message 70: by Monica (new)

Monica Morg, I am sorry that a group that I am a member of made any other member feel it wasn't safe to be there or to freely be who they are. I have a duty to help make sure that never ever happens again or I can't be the person that I think I am. My apologies. If you can see fit, can you come the the healing the Rift thread and help me accomplish this?

I'll have to ask Lori or someone to post the link here because I don't know how to do it.


message 71: by Monica (new)

Monica Aleksandr wrote: "I can do that - I'm definitely ready to do that part of my job. What's the link?"

I'll get it to you.


message 72: by Katie (new)

Katie I support you in whatever you do! Your writing is wonderful and you shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone. It is no one's business but your own and I am shocked to hear how nasty and entitled so many people are. You have all of my support and love coming your way. You are very strong and will get through it in the way that is right for you. *BIG Hugs*


message 73: by Serena (new)

Serena Yates Monica wrote: "Hi Serena, let me start by saying how nice it is to talk to you even though the circumstances aren't the best. I am a big fan of your books, follow your reviews and appreciate your thoughtful comments. Geez, that sounded like I'm an author stalker, lol...."


Hi Monica, thank you for your kind words. Stalker (LOL) or not, it is always goood to talk. I do not want to steal Aleks's blog further, but am happy to help out - if need be in the new thread. If everyone agrees.

You said: I hope I have not offended or overstepped my place by making this suggestion to you since that is not my intention. I just feel that some of the comments that were posted her by those that have been so horribly wronged are getting out of control as well.

You have not offended me with your suggestion. And while I agree that everyone has to be careful not to 'hurt others back', at this point in time, I believe the 'hurt' party probably has more of a need for open ears. We need explainations, and Aleks has already agreed to help with that. If he wants me to assist, I'd be happy to step up a little more.

As for 'rights' versus 'duties': I have trouble with legal language, I admit that. It is quite often very technical, and what I would hope we can do is use a lot of common sense, and even more empathy in this upcoming discussion. A former boss of mine used to say: "You have ONE mouth and TWO ears. Use them accordingly." :-)

I understand that it may take you a while to un"ingrain" the terminology you are used to, but I think it would help.

You also said: Often time we can mean the same thing but use a different word or the wrong word to get our point across. Sometimes it has to do with cultural, language, or socio-economic issues as to why we use certain words.

Yes, that is also very true. And since we are a global group and come from many walks of life and cultures, and not all of us are native English speakers, this is even more true. We'll have to rely on finding the common 'human' language in all of us if we want to connect.


Thank you for making an effort, I will certainly give it my alll (if Aleks and others want me there).


message 74: by Lori (last edited Nov 16, 2011 11:00AM) (new)

Lori Here's the link http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

I invite anyone who would like to be a part of this discussion to please join. Let me know if things are getting to intense because honestly, I'm not an expert on what everyone may find offensive.

Thank you so much Aleks for agreeing to be part of the discussion.

I really, really want us to be a family again.


message 75: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov Yes, please Serena, you'd be awesome and extremely helpful. The more people help the better, and the less it becomes the Voinov Show.


message 76: by Serena (new)

Serena Yates Aleksandr wrote: "Yes, please Serena, you'd be awesome and extremely helpful. The more people help the better, and the less it becomes the Voinov Show."

Okay, sure. :-)


message 77: by Boycop (new)

Boycop Thank you Aleks for sharing your thoughts and insights to your life, trans* life and the recent events. I cannot say I'm not surprised, because you really "passed". Not that I ever thought much about your personal life. Why would I - I'm not your personal friend (even though I'd like to be), but I do care deeply about your writing and I truly hope and believe that you will return to MM romance (totally selfish lucky gay bastard that I am).  As far as I'm concerned,  you do have bigger balls and a bigger dick than a huge amount of born and bred males - can't speak for all, but certainly bigger than mine. 
As for the begging of any bodies acceptance or explaining your life to someone it doesn't concern - no need to ever go down that road. Not now, not ever. But does the world need a shining light to be an example of good? - Yes it desperately needs one,  probably many, but it is totally up to you to decide if you want to be that person.
Take care Aleks and keep on writing, because there lies your true passion and your gift.


message 78: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov Thank you, Boycop. Yeah, I ruined a perfectly good "passing", damn it. :) No, I'm OK with that now. It had to be done, and I'm glad I could express something that many other Ts and Qs in the alphabet soup are going through and went through in a way that non-T/Qs can empathize with. I think it's a watershed moment for us all - this opens the door for more discussion and tolerance and understanding. I'm all for that.

And I want to go back to writing once the dust settles and my Muse shows up again. Poor thing is all aflutter. :)

Thank you.


message 79: by Adrian (last edited Nov 16, 2011 03:47PM) (new)

Adrian Anderson @Mod Lori...

1)You said : "I started the "Is He or Is She" thread in 2009, over two years ago. I was fairly new to the genre and was really surprised to lean that most of the very popular authors I was reading were female."

Two years ago is irrelevant. You had a specific reason to 'reactivate' the thread at this particular time. And it wasn't just there at MM but at the YA group.

2) Yes, spew out the word HITLER and my comment about it to have people get the wrong idea and have reflex negative thoughts about my comment. Maybe you should post what I said.

I said I understand Hitler's intent, and it doesn't make me a Nazi. I suppose all the people who UNDERSTOOD the man's madness and REALIZED what he was up to with his ideology and fought against were in the wrong right? Real cheap tactic.

But then I didn't really expect much from you. Like I said I respect the stuff people at MM do for (part of) community but wish it would be extended to all of it. And not money-wise, but things like, you know - Respect. R...E...S...P...E...C...T...Ooh! Just a little bit! Just a little biiiiiiiiit!


message 80: by Adrian (last edited Nov 16, 2011 03:45PM) (new)

Adrian Anderson Monica wrote: "Adrian wrote: "@Monica: I don't think he was referring to everyone there in general. I think it was just as he said. The lynch mob over there, specifically them. I agree that most there are nice, t..."

Well then by that logic I suppose we the LGBT community should not bother to raise our voices in protest when others say what they wish about us. It is freedom of speech after all. People often feel freedom of speech means they can say whatever they feel like. It's not so much what you say as HOW you say it.

PS - Note I didn't urge anyone to leave MM. I wouldn't want to infringe on anyone's freedom. I left because of my own reasons and state again MOST PEOPLE THERE ARE NICE WELL-ADJUSTED PEOPLE. It's just the few...


message 81: by Sarasaya (last edited Nov 16, 2011 03:48PM) (new)

Sarasaya Adrian, please, please, I'll do anything, you ask I'll do it. Do you want me wash your car? I'll do it.
Do you want me to to sing you a song every morning? I'll do it. In chinese? well..I can try. You dont speak chinese, right? You'll never know what I'm saying.

But please, they are all talkning now, and everything looks so shiny and sparky, and look! Ther's a little fox there, and a fluffy bunny here, and we are all trying to understand, and Lori is trying to understand, please...no more anger.

You know, I can cook, too, you just ask!

:)


message 82: by Monica (new)

Monica Adrian wrote: "Monica wrote: "Adrian wrote: "@Monica: I don't think he was referring to everyone there in general. I think it was just as he said. The lynch mob over there, specifically them. I agree that most th..."

Adrian, we are moving on to the healing part. Why don't you come join us if you can on the link Lori posted on this blog. It is getting better and I would appreciate your voice over there to help with the healing. It time. However, if you are not there yet I understand. Maybe you can go read the posts and see the hard work that is being done and don't wallow over here in the negative.


message 83: by Lena (new)

Lena Grey Hi Aleks,

I'm in tears after reading your post. I've been heartbroken throughout all this nightmare, watching the devastation it has caused, not only to my friends, but to everyone. That includes those making the vile comments, because they will pay dearly for them. I've lost a lot of respect for people that, before all this, I had put my faith in, knowing that because of their attitudes, I will no longer be able to appreciate their work. I feel as if I've lost friends in this nasty process.

I am in awe of you and your amazing post; it cuts through the negativity so succinctly and eloquently. The bottom line is everyone should be allowed to be whatever their perception of self is and no one should ever be arrogant or judgmental enough to think they know better. Thank you!


message 84: by Monica (last edited Nov 16, 2011 04:41PM) (new)

Monica Lena wrote: "Hi Aleks,

I'm in tears after reading your post. I've been heartbroken throughout all this nightmare, watching the devastation it has caused, not only to my friends, but to everyone. That includes ..."


Lena, I encourage you to check out the link on this page and see the hard work that's being done to heal this rift.

It takes a village.


message 85: by Lena (new)

Lena Grey I've seen it and am amazed at the courage of those involved. Even though I am a straight, married, white, female, I am also an Empath, meaning that I literally feel what other people feel and I've struggled with being 'different' all my life. This whole situation has affected me deeply especially because many of the people involved in this drama, i.e., Serena, AJ, DJ, Bryl, and DC are much more to me than passing acquaintances. They are my friends and when something hurts them, it hurts me. I intend to do whatever I can to "see that all the hard work that's being done to heal this rift"actually does so.


message 86: by Adrian (new)

Adrian Anderson Lena wrote: "I've seen it and am amazed at the courage of those involved. Even though I am a straight, married, white, female, I am also an Empath, meaning that I literally feel what other people feel and I've ..."

HUGZ, Lena. Well, I might come off as a heartless SOB at times. But truth be told I'm not. Must be my Pisces moon.


message 87: by Adrian (last edited Nov 16, 2011 05:18PM) (new)

Adrian Anderson One of my favorite fictional Trans characters. Kamatari from Rurouni Kenshin! Fanvid, nice song and I guess - show of solidarity! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyP2NT...


message 88: by VJ (new)

VJ Summers Kaje, I agree 145%.

Of course, being a writer I do feel the need to add my 1 cent.

It never, ever occurred to me that what was being said would be construed as an attack on trans* people in general. I realize now that was incredibly naive of me but, like Aleksandr I assumed the m/m community was a safe enough, accepting enough place that it never occurred to me that could or would happen. Any comments I made (I think there were two - I tend to fly fairly under the radar) were directed at a specific person and a specific action. Again, in *not* considering that those comments might be insensitive, I was hurtfully naive, and for that I apologize.

I'm especially regretful in light of a recent conversation I had at work - a young man I like and respect quite a lot made an unforgivable comment about gays in general, and I blasted him with both barrels. I told him, and I believe, hate is hate, no matter in which direction it is aimed.

My intention was never to spread hate - to express anger and disappointment, not at an individual protecting their identity, but because of specific actions that were less about "deception" and more about general unkind behavior. My great fear (and one reason I rarely post) is that I'll lower myself to become a bully in my own right. The idea sickens me.

So, again, for anything I said that felt like an attack, or condemnation of the trans* community, I am sincerely sorry. There's no way for me to erase that blow to the solar-plexus, but I will police myself much more closely in the future.


message 89: by Lena (new)

Lena Grey Adrian wrote: "Lena wrote: "I've seen it and am amazed at the courage of those involved. Even though I am a straight, married, white, female, I am also an Empath, meaning that I literally feel what other people f..."

You've never come across that way to me, Adrian. BTW, I'm a Scorpio with my moon in Pisces and Taurus as an ascendant. Talk about a mixed bag, LOL


message 90: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov Lena - Thank you. I think that sums it up. I've lost a huge amount of respect, too, but I'm working to reclaim it and teach at least those who want to be taught and have an open mind. And I believe that's the majority, actually. Ignorance is the real enemy - there are few genuine haters out there. And - thank you for your contribution (I'm on the empathic spectrum as well - I'm an INFJ, which, boy, makes it almost impossible to shutter my emotions).

Adrian - Pisces moon, too? Jeeez, that one dissolves my hard-headed Taurus every time. :)

VJ - I know, which makes the whole situation even more vile. In short, even a trans* man can be an utter wretch. I've blogged about the AJ issue here, from a trans perspective:

http://aleksandrvoinov.blogspot.com/2...

Which explains a little, I hope. And I believe trans* and queer writers were basically collateral damage of a situation that spiralled out of control. I don't believe anybody aimed at pressuring all trans and queer writers into despair or giving up their identities. Or that that pressure came from an extremely tiny minority that was both ignorant and transphobic.


message 91: by Cleon Lee (last edited Nov 17, 2011 03:52AM) (new)

Cleon Lee Monica wrote: "Lena wrote: "Hi Aleks,

I'm in tears after reading your post. I've been heartbroken throughout all this nightmare, watching the devastation it has caused, not only to my friends, but to everyone. T..."


Monica, I've been thinking about this for over an hour, wondering if I should speak up or will it incite things further. I fully believe Aleks can give more eloquent answer, but at the spirit of free speech, let me say some things that might help you see it from other side.

Consider this... We accidentally offend people on daily basis, sometimes for things we think as mundane as Halloween costume. So, when a minority speaks up and says they've been wronged by the majority, the first instinct of a compassionate person is to think "what I have done wrong and if I do, what can I do to make it right?" It is NOT to demand retraction or apology from the person nor to defend their position or what they have said that has caused the hurt. Over & over again, I saw people justifying the situation by saying "I see nothing that can be construed as attack", as if it is the trans* people's fault for being overly sensitive.

Trans* people are just people, when they get hurt, they need time to cool down, but you keep hounding them to "heal the rift" as you say, on their own blogs, sending them messages, etc. When they come around it should be on their own term, when they feel safe and welcomed, not because you or someone else demand it of them. People have been wondering what in the infamous thread that had caused such anger among trans* member of the community, but the truth is, the anger has been long building, and not just within the trans* issue.

Some people might wonder why some people react so strongly to the community & the mods. Like Aleks have revealed and some news I have heard, the issue goes beyond what was said within that thread. Some people, some mods, also privately send messages that makes trans* people feel threatened, uncomfortable, and sad. I don't know how anyone can justify that and ask other people to heal the rift or so to speak, without first offering sincerest apology. I'm in awe of VJ Summers and his or her apology. I hope that when I make mistakes (I will, one day, I'm just a human after all), I can offer apology as sincere & eloquent as that.


message 92: by Aija (new)

Aija Edina wrote: "On a light note, in order to fight ignorance and encourage authors in our community to write about trans romance heroes, I would like to recommend to those..."

Thank you, Edina! I have tried to look up something other than m/m or straight romance, but didn't know where to look! Wanted to try some lesbian (although I have no sexual interest in women) and trans* stories for the sole purpose to learn what problems they face and anything else these books could teach me that I'm sure I haven't even thought to think of. Thank you again for pointing to this book :)

Aleks - you have made me a braver person. :) Thank you.


message 93: by VJ (new)

VJ Summers @Cleon - thank you so much <3
@Edina - thank *you* for sharing!
@Aija - I know there are a couple "nap sized dreams" at Dreamspinner by GR Richards (Vintage Toys for Lucky Boys and Junk) that have a trans* hero. I haven't read them myself, but I've heard good things...


message 94: by Serena (new)

Serena Yates VJ wrote: "I know there are a couple "nap sized dreams" at Dreamspinner by GR Richards (Vintage Toys for Lucky Boys and Junk) that have a trans* hero. I haven't read them myself, but I've heard good things... "

I have read both of them, and totally loved them!

Others I have liked are:
Going Under
Garnet: A Season In Hell
Lola Dances

Ones still in my TBR pile:
Ashera's Curse
If I Were a Lady...
Circle of Change
Transgender Erotica: Trans Figures (Southern Tier Editions)
Best Transgender Erotica
Family Ties
Filth
Inside Out
Hawk's Landing


message 95: by ❂ Endless (new)

❂ Endless Edina wrote: "Hi, Aleks. You are a brave man, period.

On a light note, in order to fight ignorance and encourage authors in our community to write about trans romance heroes, I would like to recommend to those..."


Edina - I think you know this but i'm still going to say it... you're awesome! :-) Thanks for sharing the free online romance and your PDF + Kindle versions here! I'll get to it as soon as i finish my current reads.


message 96: by Kaje (new)

Kaje Harper And in Young Adult books, Luna.


message 97: by Sarasaya (new)

Sarasaya Serena, I'm going to steal this list for the m/m Italia group. :)


message 98: by [deleted user] (last edited Nov 17, 2011 01:09PM) (new)


message 99: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov I loved Beautiful Boxer - my favourite.


message 100: by Aleksandr (new)

Aleksandr Voinov Aija - Thank you. And - yep, there's a dearth of good trans* books. I'm hoping we'll soon see more. I definitely encourage them at Riptide.


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Aleksandr Voinov
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