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Kasia
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Mar 11, 2017 02:38AM

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Thank you for being old-fashioned and viewing writing as an art, for trying new things and for writing entertaining, witty, funny and well-plotted stories!


Writing is a business/profession, but it's also many writers' favourite thing/hobby/passion, so they should be "allowed" to be selfish and irrational sometimes :-)
Personally, the only story of yours I haven't re-read was "Strange Fortune" - one of your earlier experiments. I thought it was well written and liked it when I read it, but that genre is just not my thing. So I was kind experimenting along with you, which was perfectly fine. We all need a bit of adventure from time to time, writers and readers.



I don't know if you've had this happen, but I've had readers latch onto pieces of my work that to be honest, I put way less thought into them than they did. I was just riffing. They found meaning and relevance that I never intended.
I've also put a lot of thought and work into parts of my stories that have just plain been missed (or worse, misinterpreted to the point of me planting my palm into my face) by people I really thought would understand.
As I see it, there are three versions of a story. There is the tale a writer imagines, there is the book they write, and there is the story a reader dreams up. The three are always wildly different...and that's both the greatness of storytelling and the headache every writer suffers from. Sometimes, people find the most wondrous stuff in the dusty spaces the author left ambiguous...and speaking as an author, sometimes I've been amazed at the meaning people have taken away from my work.
I've also rolled my eyes at what I thought I'd made obvious that they didn't pick up on. When that happens, all I can do is mutter "well, back to the drawing board" and try again.
It can be frustrating. But whatever, nobody ever said art was easy.
Yeah, I hear you...don't be afraid to speak your mind. Don't be afraid to fail. I'd add 'don't be afraid to succeed in a weird way' and 'don't get mad at your customers for buying into your product for reasons you didn't intend'. Because that can happen too.
Anyhow, I've gone on long enough. Thanks for posting!



Short stories are an art form, just like novel length stories. Have a look-see at the Nobel Prize in Literature 2013, given to Alice Munro as the "master of the contemporary short story". I despair over the current negativity directed at short stories and buy author anthologies of such authors who practise that art form in superior form. There are quite a few around.

I didn't say that short stories were not an art form (although I find them quite frustrating at times, matter of personal taste). However, to transform what should be a novel in its own right into a short story for commercial purposes and to have algorithms dictate art is a bastardization of both novel and short story genres, you might agree with me on that.

I personally don't know any author who does this. Short stories sell extremely badly, and most entirely commercially oriented authors instead bloat their stories to the point of being well above the 40k limit.
In addition, Kindle Unlimited - the Amazon library service a lot of purely commercial authors financially depend on - exclusively rewards long stories, the longer, the greater the reward (limit is 3,000 pages, which is the equivalent of roughly 1,050,000 words or 25 full-length novels).
Thus they would be stupid and harm themselves to shorten their full-length stories to lengths of 2,000 to 7,500 words. I'm sure this was either misunderstood, or the so-called workshop wasn't worth the money and time expended. Commercially oriented authors write doorstoppers. Only idealists and artists these days write shorts, with the exception of authors of porn. But again, I very much doubt we are talking porn here.
So no, I do not agree with you on that, because the facts are wrong as presented. What you maintain happens is not something I so far have witnessed, nor is it anything commercial authors advise or do.

we'll have to agree to disagree on that, my friend

And you might prefer to have a look at facts regarding what commercial authors are advised to do, at least as long as you plan on giving advice to them or comment on who does what. Short stories do not pay, except for 2k long wank-off ficlets. Those do pay, but I don't think anyone could argue Josh Lanyon writes those or contemplates writing those. And even these porn shorts have ceased to pay as much as they used to do a few years ago.

Writers who fixate on tracking the number of words written in a day worry me too. I can write 5,900 words today; doesn't make them GOOD words.

I think this actually goes for anything creative - visual media, audio, theatre, all of it. The artist creates for themselves and the piece means one thing to them. The piece as presented is relatively static (I say 'relatively' because, live performance); and the audience takes away what they see and hear and the emotions that brings up for them. And I think it's important to remember that that can change with time - I definitely get something different from a book each time I read it.

I wholeheartedly agree. But very many have taken up writing as a purely commercial enterprise, now that the gatekeepers have more or less gone.
Coming back to this workshop's idea that short stories make business sense:
I think it may have been a very dated, and I mean at least by 4-5 years past actuality affair. It is at least that many years that short erotic stories sold like sliced bread on Amazon, and equally as many years that Kindle Unlimited and Scribd paid "per loan" of a book of any length whichever. At the time Amazon was flooded with shorts of often less than 2k in length, because they would get 1.90 $ regardless, and the doorstopper of 300k also would get only 1.90 $ for a Kindle loan. But these days have long, long gone.
Kindle Unlimited nowadays pays a set sum per page actually read by the person loaning that book. Somewhere in the region of 0,0048 $. That means that an average short story of 20 pages would only get 0,09 $ and a book of 300 pages 1,44 $. Except for erotica shorts the current price of anything less than novella size is 0,99 $ and in some genres readers expect anything under 250 pages to be sold at that price level.
All that makes me wonder just how aged that workshop was.

As to the "business" of writing, yeah. The writing has to come first. The rest may be necessary, but it should never be the main focus.

Well, the interesting thing about experimental works is that the people who do enjoy them, REALLY enjoy them. So that's some compensation. And it is really satisfying to push yourself as an artist. It just...is.
Creativity is its own reward.

Thank you very much for saying so.
I too have authors who I love and will buy everything they write -- but do not love everything they write.
Even if I did love every single thing they wrote, I would not -- could not -- love everything equally. It's inevitable that some titles will be more popular than others.
And that's absolutely okay. Creatives must give themselves permission to create without fear of "failure."

On a different note, I have never understood fan anger when a person tries something different, we aren't obligated to do the same thing day in/out. It is the nature of being humans who don't like change I think :( . If I don't enjoy a work I always ask myself 'was it written/painted/created with me in mind?'. I don't like horror or dadaism--why would I rate it?
Keep up the incredible work <3.

Thank you for saying so, Paola.
I will say this. If you are trying to earn a living at writing fiction, you have to space your experiments out a bit. You have to be cognizant of your own production schedule. Experiment after experiment will rattle readers. :-D
I have a large enough readership that even the less successful experiments earn out, but too many in a row would probably test reader patience.
But as I mentioned elsewhere, the experimentation pays off even for the readers who don't enjoy it because these little creative detours energize me and keep me enthusiastic for the stories they do enjoy.
It really is a win-win.

Writing is a business/profession, but it's also many writers' favourite thing/hobby/passion, so they should be "al..."
Exactly! While writing has become the get-rich-scheme of the moment, most people drawn to it are creatives who need this particular outlet. Whether they are successful or not, they would continue to write--maybe even continue to publish.

Yes. If you want to hang onto your sanity -- and your love of writing -- you have to keep this in mind.

It's a stressful time for many writers. I see it in post after post after post. The frustration and fear imposed by this artificial idea of a "successful" author.

This is so true.
And honestly, I've come to see that--if you publish--the reader and the reader's interpretation do become part of the act of storytelling.
It's kind of a fascinating thing. Because while writing is very personal, so, in a funny way, is reading.
I think the ability to let go and accept that readers will find their own truth in any given story, allows the author to be at peace with the readers who maybe miss a few things or come away with a very different idea of the message the author was trying to convey.
It's all part of the creative effort.

Yes. This is the thing. Readers are not wrong for enjoying what they enjoy. No one is "wrong" for preferring chocolate chip over strawberry.
The only wrong occurs when someone who is dying to create strawberry is afraid to experiment because they know it's a less popular flavor.
OR when someone who prefers chocolate chip is angry and disappointed when other flavors are made available. :-D
You cannot grow as an artist if you are afraid to ever push your own boundaries--or the boundaries of your audience.

Thank you very much for saying so , Charles -- and for taking the time to comment.

Absolutely.
The short story is an art form -- and a demanding one. A short story takes me a couple of weeks to write. I don't whip them out in an afternoon between commercial breaks of Real Detective. :-D
I don't write short stories because I'm lazy or ran out of ideas in the middle of a novella. I write them because I love them and because they are the format best suited to certain themes and character dynamics I want to explore.
That said, readers enjoy what they enjoy. And it is okay not to enjoy short stories.
The only possible mistake a reader could make is to be angry or disappointed because a favorite author chooses to write something the reader does not enjoy.
It's one thing not to buy these works. It's another to try to insist the artist only produce works the reader enjoys.
But I honestly think that even the most wacky of readers realize this when you put it before them in such plain and simple terms.
I think very few--if any--readers want to believe they are the kind of person who crushes creativity in others.

There is a certain amount of this going on. Clearly. Given the webinars on writing short in order to maximize profits.
But I've read reviews where a reader believed there was potential for a novel in a short story, and as the creator, I disagree.
Which is to say that technically ANY idea could go long or short, but the decision to go long or short depends exclusively on authorial intent.
There is no hard and fast rule about this. :-) It is strictly determined by what the writer hopes to achieve in any given work.

This is essentially correct. A huge percentage of authors are putting their work into Kindle Unlimited and Kindle Unlimited is currently paying out about a half cent a page. Which means a short story is liable to bring in about...what? .45 cents for two weeks work?
I don't know anyone who isn't independently wealthy who can live on that.
Even a regularly priced short story at .99 cents only brings in about .35 cents...again not a livable wage.
I price my short stories at $2.99 and sell enough to pay for the short story's editing, cover, proofing and formatting--with a bit of profit to keep me going between producing the longer works.
No one is getting rich on writing short stories. But a short story can be hugely satisfying from a creative standpoint. I think the closest you can come to perfection is in the short story form. I personally think some of my very best work is in the short story format.
Which just doesn't matter if you don't like short stories. :-)
And a lot of readers don't.

I admit I feel intimidated when I read those JUST HIT MY 12k WORD COUNT GOAL FOR THE DAY. :-D
My average word count is about 2K and there are plenty of days when I'm ripping out as much as I'm adding.

Yes! And that interactive quality is what makes art -- all art -- so exciting.

It was quite current -- which I found interesting. Maybe there's been a shift I'm unaware of. And of course these workshops are aimed at largely mainstream authors who are almost certainly guaranteed to sell more units than we will in M/M romance.

Once upon a time this was -- relatively speaking -- an author's market. But now there are hundreds of new titles and new authors flooding in every single month (if not week) and it is a reader's market.
Readers have many, many options for their book dollars.
I suppose it's natural that some of them start to feel a bit possessive and even dictatorial about what favorite authors produce. There's a greater sense of resentment over "wasting" money on a book not enjoyed as much as anticipated.
That's just the way it is now, and I think writers have to harden themselves to hearing more negative comments when they dare to veer from a perceived brand.
For myself, I know that writing what moves me at any given moment means I can bring more enthusiasm and energy to all my projects. Which I think ultimately pays off even for those readers who don't enjoy the experiments.

Most authors of fiction cannot support themselves without a day job (or a spouse or SO with a day job) so that's the natural state of affairs and nothing to worry about.
And because it's the natural state of affairs, it is absolutely vital that writers love the work. That is one of the biggest compensations we have -- the pleasure of doing what we love for a living (even if it isn't actually a "living" by most people's standards).
As for the rest of it, I put some of it down to the increasingly interactive quality of fiction and storytelling. If the metaphor of fiction and story as a drug readers come to crave is accurate, then more and more of the patients want to be in charge of their dosage. ;-)

That shift occurred when Kindle Unlimited moved to KENP (pay per page) instead of the same exact sum for a story of any length.
I think the webinars you see may be currently held, but they reflect the situation from roughly 3-4 years ago -- and the whole business side of things moves along much, much faster.
Amazon is changing the game at least every other year, if not yearly, and most of the "normal" (formerly trad publishing) industry people teaching about self-publishing are hopelessly behind things.
And I agree, a well-written short is something completely different from a shortened down novel. Shorts are their own beasts, and need to be written with love and care. Few write them anymore.