Full interview with longtime Michael Jackson collaborator and friend Matt Forger

Matt Forger was one of Michael Jackson’s most trusted collaborators; few, if any, have more knowledge of Michael’s adult recording career and creative process.Over a period of 15 years, Matt worked closely with Michael on several projects as a sound engineer. Matt was working with Quincy Jones when he first met Michael during theThrillersessions in the summer of 1982.The pair then developed a close friendship as Matt went on to work with Michael on The Jacksons’Victoryalbum in 1984, before transitioning into theCaptain EOproject in early 1985. He then spent two years working at Michael’s home studio in Encino, California, as they created and sculpted the songs that formed theBadalbum.After Michael’s professional split with Quincy Jones, Matt went on to play a central role as they recorded theDangerous,HIStoryandBlood on the Dance Flooralbums in studios in Los Angeles, New York and Europe.Read next:Author Mike Smallcombe discusses his book Making MichaelMaking Michaelwould not have been possible without Matt's kindness, generosity, memories and knowledge. Since I first met Matt in Los Angeles in February 2012, he has made an outstanding contribution to the book by answering hundreds of questions, reading chapters and contributing the best foreword I could possibly wish for.It was February 2012 when I visited Matt at his studio in Sherman Oaks. Little did I know that the interview would last more than three hours, and our conversations would continue until I finished the book three years later. The full transcript of our conversations is over 5,000 words long. Here it is in full.THRILLERYou didn’t meet Michael until he began work onThriller. How did that come about?I met Michael because I was working with Quincy [Jones] at the time, and Michael’s project was simply the next one on Quincy’s schedule. In the studio at Westlake, it was me on the right hand side of the console, Bruce [Swedien] in the middle and Quincy on the left. Westlake A was the main studio we used, we also used studio B when the deadline crunch put us in a tight position for time, keeping both studios booked full time until we finished.It started with the sessions for 'The Girl Is Mine' sessions, which were in April 1982 because that was when Paul [McCartney] was available; it was a good time for all parties involved. Then we had a couple of months break when Quincy, Bruce and I did the Donna Summer album. After that was released, in August we set up at Westlake and began theThrillersessions.How did theThrillersessions begin; which songs did you work on first?TheThrillersessions began with two of Michael’s songs, 'Billie Jean' and 'Startin Somethin’. Then we had Rod [Temperton] come in with his three songs.From what Quincy has said, songs like ‘Beat It’, ‘P.Y.T’ and ‘Human Nature’ didn’t come into play for a long time during those sessions.That is correct; I believe 'Carousel', 'Hot Street', 'She's Trouble' and 'Got The Hots' did exist before 'Human Nature', 'P.Y.T', 'Beat It' and 'The Lady In My Life'. The key word being exist. They came to the project at Westlake in that order.So how did ‘Beat It’ come about?The album seemed to be heading in a certain direction, until Quincy asked Michael to come up with something that had a real edge. The deadline for finishing the production was drawing ever closer, and it appeared that although Quincy had been asking him for months to try and write a rock song, Michael couldn’t come up with anything. Suddenly, he came in with ‘Beat It’, and everything changed.Read next:The making of Michael Jackson's 'Billie Jean'Can you remember the Eddie Van Halen session?Very well. It was funny because when Quincy called Eddie, he thought it was a joke and hung up on Quincy. Quincy kept calling but Eddie kept hanging up. In the end, Quincy said, ‘Look Eddie, this really is me!’ He had to almost beg to be believed.So then it was time for the main session. I said to Quincy, ‘We should bring Eddie’s engineer Donn Landee in for the session, so Eddie feels comfortable and can really be himself.’ Quincy thought it was a great idea.So Friday came around, and it was time for Eddie to come in and do his bit. When they saw it was just me in the session Donn and Eddie looked around and said, ‘So is Quincy not coming in?’ I said, ‘No, Quincy wants you guys to do the session like you usually would.’ Donn said, ‘I haven’t worked on this console before’. But it was already set up and ready, and I was there if theyneeded anything.”Eddie did four or five takes, and felt happy. So he says, ‘Great, is Quincy coming in to pick the take?’ To which I again said, ‘No Quincy isn’t coming in, he wants you to pick the take’. They seemed surprised at how in control they were of the session. In the end they chose part of one take and part of another, and the two were put together.There have been many rumours as to what the knocking sound is at the 2:45 mark, just as Eddie is about to begin his solo. Was that an engineer knocking on the door?No, that was actually Eddie knocking on his guitar.How did the E.T album come about?He [Michael] felt like this was a window of opportunity and took up the offer. But the project wasn’t as quick and easy as they thought – it took up a few weeks right during the middle of theThrillersessions, which meant we were working on both albums at the same time.BADAfterThrillerMichael went on tour with his brothers and also did 'We Are the World'. How did it all begin withBad?Well, afterThrillerMichael and me struck up a great friendship. I worked with Michael on several projects that he was developing, including theVictoryalbum with The Jacksons, the Victory Tour and the song ‘Centipede’ for his sister Rebbie. I then transitioned intoCaptain EOin early 1985, working on ideas with Michael at Westlake studio, before we transitioned toBadat Hayvenhurst.So when did thoseBadsessions begin?In mid-1985; maybe May or June. Michael’s new studio at Hayvenhurst was ready and myself, Michael, Bill Bottrell and John Barnes began working on demos for a new album. Michael came back from the Victory Tour with some new song ideas.I was mostly a recording engineer and sound designer; I helped do whatever Michael wanted to accomplish creatively. Bill was an engineer as well as a producer and musician, and worked at whatever task or on whatever song Michael directed, sometimes suggesting ideas. John Barnes worked as a musician, programmer and aided Michael with developing ideas.Which songs did you work on first?Two of the earliest songs in those sessions were 'Dirty Diana' and 'Smooth Criminal', which was titled 'Al Capone' then. The songs we worked on later included ‘Hot Fever’, ‘Speed Demon’ and ‘Leave Me Alone’. ‘Liberian Girl’ was also around the same time, but Billy (Bottrell) and John (Barnes) worked on that one. As we began working on song ideas, the songs developed and grew. Michael would never stop creating and he had an endless supply of song ideas.Is it true that Michael re-worked the song 'Al Capone' after hearing about the murders committed by Richard Ramirez, termed ‘The Night Stalker’ and the song ultimately became 'Smooth Criminal'?Not to my knowledge, it may have happened around that time but I don't know of any direct connection. On a personal note I saw Richard Ramirez hanging out in a corner of the Glendale Galleria before he was captured. I recognized him when his picture was shown on the news here in L.A and they mentioned that it was a place he frequented. Weird.What about ‘I Just Can’t Stop Loving You’, did that start at Westlake?Yes, it did. I believe that Bill did the work on that song demo.How about ‘Bad’?‘Bad’ was worked on by Bill Bottrell and Chris Currell at Hayvenhurst if memory serves me correct.Matt Forger and Michael at Hayvenhurst during theBadsessionsThere have been rumours that Michael was inspired to write ‘Speed Demon’ after getting a speeding ticket on the way to the studio. Is that true?Yes, it happens [Matt says, smiling].You said 'Al Capone' and 'Dirty Diana' were the earliest Hayvenhurst songs, and then the rest came in after. When would you say 'Streetwalker', 'Fly Away', 'Cheater', 'Make or Break', 'Don't Be Messin' Round', 'I'm So Blue', 'Free' and 'Price of Fame' came in?'Don't Be Messin' came from the song originally written by Michael in theThrillerera as a groove and then further developed duringBad. The rest were started and then worked on intermittently for the two years of the project as Michael would often do. Sometimes a song would be worked on for a day or two and sometimes he would revisit it many times with no specific pattern.'Price of Fame' was supposedly an option for Michael's Pepsi advert at one point?Yes, and at one point later (forDangerous) it was going to be used, but I don't know why not.Any recollection of 'Bumper Snippet' or 'Crack Kills'?I don't know what you are referring to as 'Bumper Snippet', as that was a working title for several of the interludes that were proposed during theBadSpecial Edition reissue project in 2001. It could be one of many. 'Crack Kills' was a track that Michael started that was left unfinished. While I remember it, I don't have a specific memory of what the decision was or why, it was just left unfinished.Michael was to collaborate on 'Crack Kills' with Run DMC in 1986. Did Michael ever mention to you that he possibly wrote 'Bad' as a replacement for the Run DMC song when that fell through?I know that at one time the Run DMC thing was an idea. I don't know as to 'Bad' being a replacement. At one time it was considered as a duet with Prince, but that didn't work out. Prince thought the song would be a hit without him.When did the Westlake sessions start?We were at Hayvenhurst for about a year in total. When Michael felt he had enough material to present to Quincy, he began working at Westlake with Quincy and Bruce. I wasn’t there for the Westlake sessions, I only worked at Westlake for a few days. I continued to work at Hayvenhurst at the same time Michael was working with Quincy and Bruce at Westlake.In mid-1986, I came back to theCaptain EOproject to conform music to picture and mix his music for the film. That was followed with my overseeing the installation at the various Disney 3D theatres. Although we did a lot of the initialCaptain EOwork at Westlake in '85, we had to wait until the movie was close to completion for editing and special effects before we went back in to conform the tracks and mix in '86.I was then back at Hayvenhurst to work on more song ideas forBadwhich was in its final stages. I moved around a lot between projects and studios but continued working with Michael for a considerable time.What about Bill Bottrell and John Barnes, did they stay at Hayvenhurst as well or move over to Westlake?Both Bill and John were working at Hayvenhurst when the Westlake sessions began but were fired, for lack of a better term, before the work at Westlake finished. I think John left in the summer of 1986, while Bill continued to work with Michael at Hayvenhurst through early ‘87.How did Quincy feel about Michael working on songs at Hayvenhurst for such a long period of time?It was something Quincy actually encouraged, he felt Michael should make his next album more his own. Michael was beginning to develop a real creative growth and gaining skills, not only in writing, but also in the production area and just taking more control over his music. My role during the Hayvenhurst sessions was to draw or pull the ideas out of Michael’s head.A couple of musicians have said they believe Michael wanted to record and produce the entire album without Quincy. What’s your take on that?Quincy signed a contract to produce a third album with Michael. There was never any mention of doing it without Quincy, just a desire to have a greater part in the direction of the music and style of sound.Read More:Inside the Bad sessions and Michael Jackson's split with Quincy JonesSome musicians also stated to me that Michael'sBaddemos lacked bass and strings. Would you say Michael deliberately left these off knowing they would be added later on at Westlake?I don't know of any songs that lacked bass and strings by design. All the songs I worked on that were submitted to Quincy at Westlake for theBadalbum, such as 'Dirty Diana', 'Smooth Criminal', 'The Way You Make Me Feel', 'Speed Demon', etc, all had bass and strings.They may have been synth elements, but these were important components to Michael’s arrangements and they were included. It may have been possible that a song idea was without bass and strings, but that only would have been because of the need to get something to Quincy in a hurry meant there wasn't time to do that at Hayvenhurst.A few of the musicians I have spoken to also dismissed Michael as a songwriter and believe the likes of Greg Phillinganes, John Barnes, Bill Bottrell and Brad Buxer did most of the writing. Having worked with Michael at Hayvenhurst forBad, you have experienced first-hand Michael creating songs from their very beginning. What's your take on this?These were situations where Michael worked with different people to help him realise his ideas; sometimes the people working with him contributed ideas as well. It would have to be a case-by-case evaluation. I worked on many songs that Michael created from scratch. Others may have opinions of their own, but other people were not responsible for writing his hit songs. They may have played a part, but it was usually in support of him.Going back to Westlake sessions, we know the likes of ‘Just Good Friends’ and ‘Man in the Mirror’ started there. There was a late decision to include ‘Another Part of Me’, which was worked on forEO. Did you finish that for the album?No, Bruce took my recording of 'Another Part of Me' and made into an album track during the main sessions at Westlake.Michael and Matt Forger recording at Westlake studio in 1985:Out of the songs that didn't make the final tracklist, 'Streetwalker', 'Price of Fame', 'Fly Away', 'Cheater' etc, which would you say (apart from the obvious one 'Streetwalker') were closely considered for inclusion at the end in July 87?'Streetwalker' was the most seriously considered track, others were still considered demos and probably not polished enough for serious consideration.There was talk Michael wanted to makeBada three-disc album with 30 songs, but Quincy wasn't keen on the idea. Any idea if that is true?There was the possibility that it could have been a three-disc set, but the time and effort alone to finish that much material made it impractical. The idea was to make it a single disc of just the strongest songs for the best possible success in the marketplace.DANGEROUSNow we are on toDangerous, which started out life as a greatest hits album. How did that begin for you?In June 1989, I began working with Michael at Westlake Studio C on a few new songs for that greatest hits album. Billy [Bottrell] was over at Ocean Way and joined us at Westlake later. I was in Studio C, and Billy was in Studio D. We worked together in both those rooms, as well as working independently in both rooms. Brad Buxer came in towards the end of the Westlake sessions. Billy recommended him.Did Bruce Swedien ever work at Westlake?I don't believe that Bruce ever worked at Westlake on theDangerousalbum aside from an individual day or two. I believe he may have recorded the Andre Crouch choir there or something of that nature. He came in later when we began at Record One.What was your main role?I was working a lot on sound design. Michael was getting me to get new sounds, all with different qualities, and there were some very unusual things. One day, Michael said to me, ‘Hey Matt, my brother Tito collects old cars’. So we ended up using some of Tito’s old cars to make certain sounds.Michael loved metallic sounds, and sounds of nature. Another day, Michael had Billy [Bottrell] take a microphone to the back area of the studio, the loading area. They began smashing a metallic trashcan, and Michael had Billy record it. With Michael, you either had the sounds he wanted, or if not he would make you create those sounds. You never knew what sounds he would want.Read next:Donald Trump and Michael Jackson: The full story behind a mysterious friendshipSo what were the early songs?The early songs that we worked on include ‘They Don’t Care About Us’, and Billy worked on ‘Earth Song’. In the late summer and early fall, we worked on ‘Heal The World’. The original title for that was actually ‘Feed The World’.I actually originally started ‘Earth Song’ with Michael, and then Bill continued working on it and developed it further, actually recording another version. I don’t know if he used my version as a starting point or not. Sometimes Michael would work that way to get another person’s take on how they would interpret a song. But many of the elements were exactly the same as my version, so it seems he did at least hear it.‘Black or White’ must have been around as well?Yes. For 'Black or White', I designed the intro section, that first minute where Billy plays the dad and Slash plays guitar. We had a young actor come in to play the son. Macauley wasn’t involved until the video shoot. Now that I think of it, Michael and Billy started 'Monkey Business' at Westlake as well.Could you tell me a little bit about you going out to record that young girl for the intro to 'Heal the World'?She was the daughter of my wife's friend. I just began asking her questions about planet earth without coaching her, and she said these lines so sincerely. It was totally spontaneous and innocent, but after I started editing it to take out some of the hesitation and stammering, Michael said he wanted to leave it as it was. It was exactly what he wanted.WhenDangerouswas only a greatest hits package, can you remember which new songs were going to be included? I presume all the pre-Record One songs, 'Feed the World', 'Black or White', 'They Don't Care About Us'...Yes.Michael at Record One studioWhere was Michael was staying when he was recording in L.A at that time?He had a condo, where I don't know. He would he would refer to going to the condo. That's all I know.When was the transition from Westlake to Record One duringDangerous, and why did Michael want to switch to Record One?Everyone didn't just walk in the door at Record one on a specific day. Everyone gravitated there over a period of about a month, roughly from November 1989 to January 1990. There were holidays at this time of year too.After looking more closely at my records it seems that Bill Bottrell and Bruce Swedien appear to have started their work at Record One earlier in November than I did. I know I was working at Westlake until the middle of November and my records show I was working at Record One from November 20 on. So the answer is the month of November in a staggered fashion.I believe the move was because of studio scheduling, at the time we moved to Record One we needed two studio rooms full time for a year. Also, Record One was a two room facility; the entire building was closed to anyone not in our production team. So we had total privacy.I remember the day I was working in the Studio B control room and Michael brought Bo Johnson in to meet us. He was impressive to meet in person, so muscular; you could feel his athletic prowess. After a few pleasant words we continued with our work. Just another day in the studio, you didn’t know what might happen or who might drop by. It was great fun.Read next:'Black or White' 25 years on: The story behind the song, video and THAT premiereWhat were the working arrangement at Record One?Record One only had two studio rooms, A and B. I had a lounge room converted into an editing suite with an Opus digital work station and playback speakers for editing and sound design work, and I would work in whatever room I needed for a specific task. At Record One I was in studio A for the most part, the smaller of the two rooms, sometimes Bill would work in that room, mostly he worked in studio B, occasionally I would work in B as well.We would all trade, or work in whatever room was free, or sometimes the room that best suited the needs of that session. You see in the course of the 2 1/2 years we worked onDangerous, we did not all work full time every day, sometimes one of us would be at another location for a specific session.Bruce occupied studio B for the majority of the time, which is why in the effort to find an open studio, Bill could have worked at any one of a half dozen places, including Smoke Tree Studio, Toad Hall, and possibly others. He also had other work to fill his time so he wasn't only working with Michael for the entire time.So now you’re at Record One; is this when the greatest hits idea was shelved?As soon as we were all working there many new songs were started, obviously more than would be needed for a greatest hits album. Michael simply wasn’t interested in old material, he wanted to keep creating. We just had too many new ideas.Which songs did you work on there?As Michael was working with Billy, Bruce and I were also working on songs with Michael. In early 1990 we worked on 'Will You Be There'. Towards the middle of 1990 Bruce and Michael worked on 'Gone Too Soon'. 'Jam' and 'Keep The Faith' were also started at Record One. Michael and Billy worked on 'Give In To Me', 'Who Is It', 'Dangerous'.What about Bryan Loren, when did he come in?Bryan Loren began working on a few ideas at Westlake, I don't remember which studio he worked in, it may have been Studio E. He did most of his work at Record One in the second half of 1990, although none of his songs made it to the album. He did The Simpson's 'Happy Birthday Lisa' and 'Magic Show' or 'Mind Is The Magic' for Siegfried And Roy.Fast forward to 1991, and Teddy Riley came in. Was that why the move to Larrabee studio was made?There wasn't a move to Larrabee, so to speak. When Teddy Riley joined the project he needed a studio to work at. There was a lot going on at Record One, so it was decided to find an additional room. I believe Teddy already knew Kevin Mills who owned Larrabee. It was a matter of finding a good studio not too far from where the centre of operations was located at Record One. Larrabee was only about a 10- or 15-minute drive away. It also gave a separation of work spaces, and I know Michael liked that.It provided another good room that could handle the style of music that was Teddy's. During mixing there were two control rooms at Larrabee and sometimes both were being used, as well as the mixing that was happening at Record One. It was a necessity when the deadline approached and the crunch time got really hectic. By the time the team moved to Larrabee, I stayed at Record One with Bruce. Larrabee was mainly Teddy’s studio.Do you have any idea if there was a pre-Teddy Riley version of 'In The Closet'?I think that was all Teddy.HISTORYHow did it all begin withHIStory?In January 1994 we were reviewing tapes for the greatest hits that would be on the album and then, when the earthquake happened, Michael wanted out of town.So you moved to the Hit Factory in New York?Yes, Bruce [Swedien] and Rene [Moore] began working on song ideas at the Hit Factory. Bruce and his wife Bea were older and found the idea of moving to New York very attractive. Brad Sundberg and I had more difficulties, we both had families, so we took turns to work two-week shifts in New York, while the other would stay in Los Angeles. Whoever was in California would act as the Los Angeles consultant if the team needed tapes or equipment sent over. Brad did the first two-week shift.Michael didn’t join us until a couple of months later. Maybe he was waiting for the weather to warm up so he could avoid the cold weather. Before Michael came to New York, he and Brad Buxer were communicating via telephone.Read next:Michael Jackson's HIStory in the making, PART ONEThe HIStory team at Larrabee studio, 1995. Matt Forger is top left.How did that project begin in terms of songs?'Stranger in Moscow' was the very first song we worked on. Michael also liked some of theDangerousouttakes and wanted to complete them. We pulled two songs out from theDangerousvaults, 'They Don’t Care About Us' and 'Earth Song'.Read next:Full interview with Michael Jackson's HIStory producer Jimmy JamWhen was the decision made to record an entire album of new songs?We had a few new songs, and around halfway through the project, likeDangerous, so many new ideas came in, so after Michael spoke to Bruce Swedien, the decision was made to have a whole disc of new songs.David Foster came in in the fall of 1994. At the same stage, Michael asked Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to bring a song to the project. By then, the decision had already been made to record a whole new album. Michael brought these guys in to contribute the extra tracks that would complete the album. There were a lot of different producers; we had David Foster, Teddy, Jimmy Jam, R. Kelly, Dallas Austin and then the likes of Bruce and Brad Buxer.Eventually you moved back to L.A?Yes, in December 1994, Michael felt it was time to move back to Los Angeles. Winter had arrived in New York, and I think Michael was getting tired of the cold. He wanted to come home, and most of the team lived in Los Angeles too.BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOORAfterHIStorycameBlood on the Dance Floor. That was a strange one. How did that start?The practical thing then was a record to support the second leg of the HIStory Tour, which was international. So the album filled that purpose as the remixes had a much more international dance sound. Those remixes at the end of theBloodalbum filled out the album. I think it was a Sony idea.The album was deliberately aimed at the international market as Michael was going to tour Europe as part of the second leg; the idea of the album was to further boost the tour. For example, both the album and song hit number one in the UK. The album was never promoted in the US. Apart from Hawaii, Michael didn’t tour the US.AfterGhoststhere was a plan to doHIStory Book II, with a similar concept to Part I. Apparently Sony asked Michael to do ten new songs, but Michael didn't want to record another full album so soon afterHIStory, so he and Sony settled on five new songs and then the remixes to fill out the album. Is this correct?I'm sure Sony would have loved to get another full record of new tracks, but that was impractical. There wasn't enough time for full production of a new album. As I understand it the practical thing was a record to support the tour, which was international so the albumBlood On The Dance Floorwith five new tracks and remixes filled that purpose as it had a much more international dance sound.When did recording begin?After Hawaii, when the first leg of the tour was completed, there was a large break. It was then that we set out to complete the album. I was there to make sure the album got finished – the idea was to have it ready and released in time for the second part of the tour.So first of all you went to Switzerland to record?Yes, we took the Teddy Riley DAT of 'Blood on the Dance Floor' to Montreux. Michael did the vocals there. I think the trip enabled him to get away from Los Angeles. It was quieter there. There was the Charlie Chaplin thing as well.When we came back, we headed to Record Plant. We had multiple studios going, Keith Cohen was over at Larrabee. Ocean Way was used for orchestra. There was another room going at Record Plant for the movie [Ghosts] mixes. The songs we hear on the album are of course CD versions, whereas some of the songs in theGhostsfilm were altered so Michael could dance to them.During those Record Plant sessions, did Bryan Loren work on those sessions for 'Superfly Sister' or was his work done duringDangerouson that one?'Superfly Sister' was mostly completed during theDangeroussessions. I believe a few new elements were recorded in ’97 and the mix was fleshed out for the album.So let’s talk about 'Ghosts' and 'Is It Scary', both of which made it onto that album. I know 'Ghosts' was a Teddy Riley track from the early nineties. Do you know if Michael worked on either 'Ghosts' or 'Is It Scary' during 1993 for theAddams Family Valuesshort-film?He worked on a track for theAddams Familymovie at Larrabee in 1993 with Teddy, and others worked on ideas as well. I don't believe 'Ghosts' or 'Is It Scary' were developed yet, one of the ideas may have evolved into what became 'Ghosts' later. There were many tracks titled 'Scary' or 'Is It Scary' from that time. Even whenAddams Familydidn’t work out, over the next couple of years, Michael had several people like Bruce [Swedien] develop music for the film.'Ghosts' became an extension of the originalAddams Familyidea. In early 1996, before the HIStory Tour started, the filming of theGhostsfilm was completed. Whilst the tour was being prepped, Michael was also shooting the film. At this time, Brad Buxer worked on grooves for the film, like the '2 Bad' version we see in the film, as well as the 'Ghosts' song. Brad developed songs that Michael could dance to in the film.Read next:The story behind Michael Jackson's GhostsSo did Michael ever work on 'Ghosts' at the Hit Factory duringHIStory? It's listed as a studio used for 'Ghosts' in the credits.Not to my knowledge. There may have been some elements that were created at the Hit Factory that were later used in the track, but not the track itself.Michael did 'Is It Scary' at Larrabee with Jam and Lewis in '95. Was it ever up for consideration forHIStory, or did he work on it with them knowing he would continue theGhostsfilm afterHIStory?Steve Hodge, who worked with Jam and Lewis, mixed 'Is It Scary'. His mix may have been done either at Larrabee at the end ofHIStory, but it’s more likely that he did a mix especially for the album back in Minneapolis. It's difficult to say if he was planning ahead, he may have had the idea to bring it back later as he made a big investment in time and expense.So there we have it. For you and Michael, that was the end of your work together on studio albums.Yes, I didn’t work onInvincible. For this album, Michael looked to the younger hip-hop style producers. But I was involved with the pre-production research for the "Special Edition" album versions ofOff the Wall,Thriller,BadandDangerousin 2001, and I also contributed to the [2004] ‘Ultimate Collection’ box set, working on the outtakes and demos and overseeing various aspects of the project.Find out more about Making MichaelReturn to the blog page