Interview with Michael Jackson's HIStory and Ghosts engineer Rob Hoffman

In January 1994, Michael’s team of producers and engineers spent a week preparing the Record One studio in Sherman Oaks, so work on new material for the delayed greatest hits package could resume. That album eventually becameHIStory, which was released 21 years ago this week.But when the Northridge Earthquake struck in Los Angeles on January 17, 1994, Michael was terrified, and chose to move production to the other side of the country, to New York City.His production team, including Matt Forger, Bruce Swedien and Brad Buxer, all relocated and began setting up for preproduction at the Hit Factory studio on West 54th Street in central Manhattan around two weeks after the earthquake.Working at the Hit Factory at the time was a young staff assistant named Rob Hoffman, who became a freelance engineer after Swedien and co arrived. Hoffman was soon in the thick of the action.I knew from my early research onHIStorythat Rob was very involved and that he had extensive knowledge of that project, with a very good memory to boot. When you're trying to research projects that were recorded 15, 20 or 30 years ago, it's important to speak to people who remember intricate details. Rob was brilliant, and played a very key part in my research onHIStory.Rob invited me to his Downtown L.A apartment for this interview when I visited California for the first time in February 2012.Here is the interview in full, with many outtakes which weren't published inMaking Michael.So work on theHIStoryproject began in January 1994?Yes, after the Northridge earthquake in January 1994, the pre-production team decided to come to New York. Around 7 to 10 days after the earthquake, we began setting up at the Hit Factory. The idea was to work on anything between one and four new songs for a greatest hits package.I was an engineer at the Hit Factory when Bruce Swedien and the team came in to set up.Bruce occupied Studio 4, the big mix room, and another room was a writing room where Bruce and his writing partner Rene Moore began writing and churning out song ideas for Michael.One of those songs became ‘2 Bad’. Bruce and Rene had put a lot of track ideas together by the time Michael later arrived in New York.When did Michael arrive?We were already in New York for at least two months before Michael arrived in New York.When he arrived, he started working in a third room over at Sony. There was a lot of political rambling, so Michael did most of his early work over at Sony with Brad Buxer. It was to appease Sony, so they could keep an eye on things. But they were quickly back over at the Hit Factory with us! We would do odd bits there, including mixing.What was it like recording Michael’s vocals?Vocals were mostly recorded by Brad Buxer and [his assistant] Eddie Delena. When Michael left the studio, Andrew Scheps [another engineer] and myself would help and assist Brad. A lot of the time, we would stay up all night working. Eventually Bruce would get whatever we were working on so he could change things and mix.So what was the first song you recorded forHIStory?The first song we did was 'Stranger in Moscow'. Michael and Brad Buxer worked on it over at Sony, and we did some work at the Hit Factory.The next one was 'They Don’t Care About Us'.  Although the idea for this song existed from the earlier sessions, I think Michael and Matt Forger started on the song again from scratch.After this came 'Money' and '2 Bad'.There was also 'Much Too Soon'. It’s totally different to the posthumous release. Although it was dropped fairly quickly after work began on it, it was simply one of the greatest things I had ever heard. Brad Buxer and [orchestrator] Geoff Grace worked on it.Towards the spring and the summer came 'D.S', and then 'Morphine'. 'Morphine' was actually inspired by Nine Inch Nails. Michael was a big fan of the Nine Inch Nails albumDownward Spiral. Obviously I was shocked to learn this, but it was clear that Michael loved the sounds, and ‘Morphine’ was an example of this.When we had these songs, the decision was made to make a whole new album. This would have been in the summer time. It was before David Foster and Jimmy Jam came in.Talking of David Foster, when did he come in?Foster came in towards the end of the New York run. He came in so he and Michael could write together. We set up a writing rig in Studio 1 at the Hit Factory.What was fascinating was that two of the most talented persons out there were sitting at the piano, trying to write a song, but nothing came of it. Everyone left the room, apart from [engineer] Andrew Scheps, who was in there with a DAT, waiting to capture anything that came. When Andrew came out, we all said, ‘Well, have they got anything?’ And Andrew turned around and said, ‘Nothing at all’!”Michael and David were actually at the piano when they began talking about their favourite old songs. Michael loved the song 'Smile' by Charlie Chaplin, so Michael and David decided to record a version.'Earth Song' was pulled up in the summer before David Foster came in, but when David came in, Michael wanted him to work on it. Songs that we worked on in the summer include 'Earth Song', 'Little Susie' and 'Childhood'.'Childhood', like 'Earth', was cut before David came in. But David did his thing on the orchestra.Michael had a lot going on outside the studio didn’t he, he married Lisa Marie Presley and he went to Hungary to film an album trailer…Yes, I remember Hungary. One day, when Michael left the studio, he said to Eddie Delena, ‘See you tomorrow’. The next thing we hear is that Michael is in Hungary doing a video commercial! He would disappear at times unexpectedly, for example to Hungary or to get married.We’ve spoken about David Foster… Jam and Lewis and R Kelly also came in. Can you remember much about those sessions?When Jimmy Jam came in, he brought three ideas with him from Minneapolis. One was 'Scream', the other was a song that Janet later did called 'Runaway', and there was another track. 'Scream', musically, was mostly completed.For 'Scream', Michael sang his lead vocal in New York. Michael and Janet sang background vocals in New York, but Janet’s lead sections were left empty. She did her lead over in Minneapolis where she was more comfortable. The track was mixed later in Los Angeles.I remember R Kelly didn’t like to fly. So when he came up with 'You Are Not Alone', his programmer Peter Mokren came over to New York to record the song with Bruce. Michael’s vocals were done in New York, and the song was also mixed in Los Angeles.When did you all pack up and go to California?We got to Los Angeles in mid-December 1994. It took us about a week to get fully set up and functional. I think Michael was tired of the cold in New York. He wanted to come home.I remember a funny story about that changeover. In New York, there were dozens of fans sat outside the Hit Factory every day waiting to get a glimpse of Michael. But there were these two women in particular. They were amazing; they were there every day. They seemed to know as much about our whereabouts as we knew ourselves. When we moved to Los Angeles, the first day back in the studio, they were already waiting outside for Michael. How they knew we were moving operations back to Los Angeles I do not know, but they were there before us!So you’re in L.A now, which songs were worked on next?After the New York to L.A transition, Jimmy Jam brought 'Tabloid Junkie' and 'HIStory' with him from Minneapolis. Those songs were pulled up at Larrabee. Jimmy Jam had a room there and spent a lot of time there. Andrew and I were there with him.'Tabloid Junkie' was mostly completed by Jimmy before we heard it. At one point, Jimmy brought Steve Hodge in from Minneapolis to help with the mixes. Steve would work in the front room at Larrabee.At Record One, Brad Buxer worked in the back room, and Bruce worked in the front room. Dallas Austin came in and worked in the back room as well.With 'HIStory', we needed both rooms at Larrabee to mix it.'Childhood', 'Smile' and 'Little Susie' were mostly completed in New York. 'Stranger in Moscow', 'Money' and 'They Don’t Care About Us' were very close as well. There was nothing major done on these tracks in New York. 'Morphine' wasn’t touched again after New York either.The big L.A songs were 'Tabloid Junkie', 'HIStory', 'This Time Around' and finishing '2 Bad'.‘Come Together’ was fairly last minute. We did very little work on it during theHIStorysessions. Any slight alterations were done by Eddie Delena and Michael.When did Dallas Austin join?Dallas didn’t join us until we were in Los Angeles, maybe the end of January or February. He came in with 'This Time Around'. He came in with a tape of 10 or 12 rough ideas. 'This Time Around' was pretty much complete musically. Bruce and Rene Moore liked the song, so they added a bridge to it and Michael liked it.Do you remember Teddy Riley working onHIStory?Teddy was in New York for a couple of months, but nothing was really happening with that so he didn’t stay around any longer.What can you remember about working on ‘Is It Scary’ duringHIStory?I first heard 'Is It Scary' towards the end ofHIStory, around the same time as 'Tabloid Junkie' and the song 'HIStory'. All three were Jimmy Jam songs. To my knowledge, ‘Is It Scary’ was in the running to be included onHIStory, but at a meeting with the entire crew two weeks before finishing the album it was not considered close enough to being finished. It seems that most of 'Is It Scary' was done by April 1995, with Steve Hodge mixing.What were the final weeks like?The last weekend of mixing was at Record One. On the last Thursday Michael came up to me and Eddie Delena and said, ‘Sorry, but none of us are going to get any sleep this weekend. We have to go to Bernie's [mastering engineer] on Monday morning’.For the whole weekend, we were camped out at Record One. Michael was singing, and there was a lot of mixing going on. The final night of recording was late on the Saturday night into Sunday morning, and this was when Michael sang the huge ad-libs at the end of ‘Earth Song’. It was the last vocal of the record as Michael knew it would kill his voice. Before that vocal, we all thought ‘Earth Song’ was finished. Michael turned around and said, ‘I have to do the ad-libs on Earth Song.’ So we turned around and said, ‘What do you mean? What ad-libs?!’ We were all so busy during those few days I think Michael just forgot about it.On that last Sunday and Monday, we were literally printing the last few mixes so Bruce could drive the tapes over to Bernie’s. The album was mastered that Monday.I read on a forum that you mentioned Michael throwing a pie in the face of a producer because he was treating people badly. Who was that?That was Brad Buxer. As a producer, Brad was under a lot of pressure so probably didn’t realise it. Michael didn’t like to be negative, so rather than shout at Brad, he called him to his lounge and threw a pie in his face!So afterHIStory, you worked on theGhostsfilm and theBlood on the Dance Flooralbum?At the end of August 1995, I got the call to go to New York and work on some remixes of Michael’s songs. I wasn’t told why, I was just told to go! It was myself, Bruce Swedien and Rene Moore. We pulled up the 'Ghosts' track and worked on that at the Hit Factory. The short-film was on the agenda.Within a couple of weeks we flipped to the HBO show Michael was going to do in December.Then, in early 1996, I was working with Steve Porcaro. I was back in L.A after being in New York for the HBO thing.At the end of March and beginning of April, I went from working with Steve straight to Record One, where the production of musical numbers for theGhostsshort-film began. We worked on the song 'Ghosts', on which we had already done some work in New York a few months earlier.Eddie and Brad chopped up a film version of '2 Bad' forGhosts.By the time the filming of theGhostsshort-film was completed, I was camped out over at Record Plant, where 'Ghosts' [song] was pulled up again. Michael was touring by now. This was the last time I worked on any Michael Jackson material.I left the project that fall, and Eddie Delena and Andrew Scheps carried on. They were doing some great work and I didn’t really need to be there. Mick Guzauski [engineer] came in as well. At this stage, no one knew about theBloodalbum.It was after filming ofGhostswas completed that the attention flipped to theBlood on the Dance Flooralbum. When it came out, it was a total surprise.They were planning to doHIStoryPart II, with a similar format to the first part. It would have included new songs and more old hits, because there were songs such as ‘Human Nature’, ‘Dirty Diana’, ‘Smooth Criminal’ and ‘Dangerous’ that weren’t on part one, and then there were the big songs fromHIStory, like ‘You Are Not Alone’ and ‘Earth Song’, that they were going to add.Apart from 'Ghosts', did you work on any of the other songs that madeBlood on the Dance Floorin 1996, before you left?No. The only song we worked in 1996 that made that album was 'Ghosts'. My work on 'Morphine' and 'Is It Scary' was done during theHIStorysessions.Did you do any work on the song 'Blood on the Dance Floor' duringHIStory?We listened to the multitracks for 'Blood on the Dance Floor' in New York in 1994, but the song wasn’t worked on.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Look out for more full transcripts from the 65 interviews I conducted with Michael's collaborators forMaking Michael in the coming weeks.Yesterday, I published myfull interview with HIStory producer Jimmy Jam.A short-film on the making of 'Stranger in Moscow' is currently in editing. Coming soon.Read:Michael Jackson's HIStory in the making, PART ONERead:Michael Jackson's HIStory in the making, PART TWORETURN TO BLOG