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Lata
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Jul 27, 2016 08:13AM

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Yep. The choice isn't "between a disappointing Democrat and the end of the world." It's between a dangerous professional politician who could take us over the edge and a dangerous ranting demagogue who could take us over the edge. The only good choice left is electing a third party candidate. Everyone says third party candidates aren't electable. But that is always true until it isn't. The Republican Party was once a third party, until enough people voted for a Republican candidate and he was elected. If every person who says third party candidates aren't electable voted for a third party candidate, we'd have a third party president. It really is that simple.

Scott Adams (Dilbert) Clip on ... why Trump will win, sad but then, he will never win and the Brits never will leave the EU, oh, wait, they just did...
So although I (as a German with a Woman as a leader and not a bad one as that) do not want Trump as a US-President, I admit it is a real possibility. Let's hope for the best!


As a woman, I truly fear the Republican party. The erosion of our rights as citizens from equal respect for the same job to the right to make reproductive choices has been slowly going on and with Trump as president it will become a full-fledged landslide.
In the end, what we really need to concentrate on is our state and federal representatives along with governors. What they have done at the state level in making crazy laws, be it Texas, Wisconsin, or Arizona as good examples (all of which I have lived in), and in watching how the president has been kept ineffective thanks to Congress' stonewalling, shows us how important those elections are. We need to recognize how important those votes are and concentrate on them instead of fighting over whether Sanders' supporters should vote for Clinton.

I absolutely agree with you about focusing on the states. After getting a democrat into the white house, electing a majority of progressives like Burnie to congressional seats at the state level will put a halt to partisan gridlock so that we can start moving forward.

Since they estimate we ate facing replacing up to 4 Justices over this next presidential period it makes Congress even more important. The Supreme Court is up for grabs and we have seen what a Republican Congress has done to date on that front. Interpretation and application of case law to decisions is not something we can shake off 4 years from now.

Let's not forget the disastrous policy Bill Clinton passed either since they are basically the same. It was all about making them money by helping out huge corporations rape the country. The banking deregulation Bill did was the root cause, reason for, the housing and economy crash since he gave the banks the tools needed for the fraud that led to the crash. Millions of people last their family homes and jobs. The economy took years to even come close to coming back and the banks got tinny slaps on the wrist with fines that were pocket change consolidated to the taxpayer bailout money they got (which Hillary pushed hard for BTW). And then, since then, the Clintons have seemed and dined nonstop with those exact same banks getting paid tens of millions of dollars for "speeches".... Because writing "bribe payoff" on the checks rather than "speech" would look too suspicious.
Then there is the prison system deregulation that Bill pushed through. Turning inmates into profitable inventory to make his profits. Then making sure laws were tightened and targeted more with policy that put millions of minorities into that business model for silly crimes and was part of the cause for the race and authority divide we see with police and blacklivesmatter. Hillary was a big pusher of this stigma as well.
Of course we can also thank Bill for the deregulation of the FCC/media which allowed 90% off ALL our media to be gobbled up and concentrated to be owned and controlled by just 6 virtual monopolies. 6 mega corporations connelly all TV/news, cable networks, radio, magazine newspapers, major websites... All of it with a controlled narrative. Add in a little help from Obama releasing "propaganda" and news laws, and we see the insane Hillary bias, basically pure propaganda, from all the news media. Some of you may have already forgotten the crazy media blackout Bernie was under for the first half of his campaign. Only reason most of the news shows/sites even mentioned his name is because they had to admit Hillary list to "soneine" as Bernie grew. Then eventually they couldn't hide him so they all started the attacks and gaslighting all the while doing damage control for Hillary and puff stories for her. So yeah, in short we can thank Bill for making our "news" into Hillary's marketing/propaganda machine and its never going to be real raw news from mainstream media again.
What industry is left for Hillary to sellout/deregulate? Maybe social security. Or maybe public schools. Or maybe law enforcement. Or hundreds of other things that mega corporations are hitting at the bit to control and profit off of. If none of that worries, or better yet, scars the crap out of you, it should. And that's all beyond the other scary things she does our will do.
People try to say she's not liable for the American deaths in benghazi. Maybe she wasn't directly but it's clear she and Obama was more worried about the "optics" of issue than the protection of our people there. But don't forget the whole reason for that uprising was the huge push for destabilization/overthrow of government that Hillary led there. If she never did that, with giddy excitement, then Benghazi wouldn't have happened. And ISIS wouldn't have evolved as fast or as strong in that power vacuum either. And don't forget her similar work in Syria and Honduras. As president and finish her work in Syria and then move on for more. Likely Iran? Doesn't matter, she'd find an "enemy" one way or another and then use her new propaganda machine to sell it to Americans. Maybe even keep let online paid trolls in place to spread the false support/propaganda that way too.
So, yeah, no. Hell no. Never Hillary. She's a proven political predator. A political prostitute that is her own pimp. She's more dangerous because she knows the system, knows the other corrupt politicians/lawmakers and can get anything done that she wants, or is paid to do.
She's not progressive either. She priced that with her push on the Dem party platform committee. Her people chief against $15 an hour. Against banning fracking. Against carbon taxes. Voted NOT to oppose freaking TPP! Against Medicare for all. Sure, eventually they came around in some things but not nearly enough. And in the end, it's just the platform, not some contact Hillary has to follow. Her stances on the original platform are what she's going to push most likely. More realistic she will push for what the special interest want instead.
I can't trust someone who lies to us constantly. I mean not done noble lie or to pricy national secrets/security. No, she lied to cover up her crimes and misdeeds that. She lied about every element of her private server email crimes that was very likely in place to hide other crimes and misdeeds. That alone is a reason to never trust her as a leader. And as far as we know, she could very well be under active criminal investigation still for the Clinton foundation... The FBI wouldn't confirm or Denison likely confirms. No idea if justice will be done, if that is the case, but the reasons behind needing an investigation is bad enough. If they deem the Clinton foundation "to big to fail" or "to big to jail" because of all the many political connections then it's only going to deepen that corruption. Not only Clinton corruption and American government corruption but worldwide corruption. Hillary went from serving the mega corporation, as a politician, to creating one of the most connected powerful corporations around which is only growing more and corrupting more every year. Pay-to-play as a corporate business model with the President is the unified states ready to shill. Yeah, no.
The two party system is broken and corrupted. Both want to keep it that way. The GOP is a joke and we now see that the DNC even more of a home with corruption and fraud. The primary was fixed. That alone is an insane that to our supposed democracy that not nearly enough people are pissed off about. The DNC showed us that our right to vote is not valid. Our votes, even our delegates, don't matter. Because the skagen is broken. Hillary had 400 super delegates, a nice majority, bought and paid for before the race even started. The Hillary Victory Fund is a money laundering business that victimized the states and the down ticket dems.
All that and then we will had insane exit poll discrepancies indicating mass election fraud. Rather than investigate, the DNC ignored it, and all of a sudden exit polls were canceled from them on. The discrepancies happened in states using old, hackable, voting machines that didn't use paper backups. Anyways in Hillary's favor. Exit polls for GOP were right on BTW. Then there was the poll station suppression, the voter purges and many cases of unwanted voter registration changes. On insane levels. I know two people that wanted to vote for Bernie. Myself and a friend. His registration was changed to Republican randomly so he was forced to vote provisional (like millions of others) my vote by mail ballot, that I triple-checked was filled out correctly and signed and all, which I dropped off personally at my polling place and placed it in the lockbox myself, never got counted. Still shows "unprocessed" when I check. All in favor of Hillary in most all cases. Sure, the proven collusion between Hillary and the DNC, and media, doesn't prove any of them directly cheated the primary voting, but someone did, in favor of Hillary, clearly.
The popularity of both Bernie and Trump shows that most people are sick of the corrupted two party system. The establishment. The two nominees for those parties are the worst candidates either party has ever had. The last popular within their own party. Now is the time a 3rd party can make a huge push. Yeah, that's scary and feels like a wasted effort but this time it might not be. Too many people hate Hillary too much.
Bernie had:
-40+% off the Dem voters
-70% off the independents (some crossover above since a few states allowed independents to vote primary)
-and likely a small but decent percentage of GOP that just can't stomach Trump.
That's not a Nader. That not a "spoiler". That's a coalition of voters the size of most of us haven't seen in our lives. If even half of all those Bernie refugees go over to Jill Stein, she could actually win in a 4 candidate race. As hated as both Hillary and trump are, Jill could end up with a majority of Bernie's supporters. Revolutions can be scary ;). Berniecrats are already winning seats with more to come. The movement is still moving with our without Bernie. But throwing Hillary in there because trump is too scary is not how we fix things. With Hillary as president for the next 8 years, the establishment will spend that time shoeing up any leaks, fixing laws and processes, to make sure we can never challenge their control, or embarrass them again.
I'm short lol, Trump sucks but so does fear politics. Trump is an idiot but Hillary is a clever manipulator. Trump is stupid but Hillary is evil. Jill Stein calls for everything, and more, that Bernie did, and she can actually win a general election.

Unfortunately, as we saw in 2000 a vote for a third party candidate is one less for HRC and Trump wins. Just like Bush did in 2000.
We study history so we don't make the same mistake over and over again. Trump is begging third party candidates to join the debates so he can win the election.
Jill Stein is great. If HRC wins maybe she will join her team. I hope she will. If not I think and she should start organizing now for 2020.

But if you studied history, you'd know many things that you apparently don't presently know. More registered Democrats voted for Bush than for Nader. And the most full recount ever done showed that Gore won Florida and hence won the election. What you must learn from is why didn't Gore fight against a system in Florida that was rigged against him and against democracy?

Unfortunately, as we saw in 2000 a vote for a third party candidate ..."
Except, you have to apply that "same mistake over and over" idea to enabling Hilary to continue making terrible decisions, when it really matters, continue to ignore the laws and rules of us silly peasants and continue selling off our country. Bills presidency has had major negative on our systems and economy because the Clintons wanted to get rich. They perfected the pay-to-play model and streamlined "legal" bribing and access. Hilary is as bad, but likely worse, than Bill was and we can't afford her privatizing yet another industry. Are you actually learning from the past mistakes/history?
And then there is the Nader thing. For one, Bush "won" because some guy in Florida, that happened to be named Jeb Bush, fixed it and then Gore, for whatever reason, let them steal it away. Second, studies show Nader didn't spoil,in general, so that 3rd part spoil thing is bogus. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&s...
Lastly, Bernie is no nader. Nader never had almost half of the primary voterbase. Nader didn't have 70% of the independants. Math-wise, Hilary would be the spoiler lol. The divide is already there. Much of the Bernie supporters will never vote for Hilary regardless if Bernie is in it or not now. Those voters are free agents that are "spoiled" as is. And it will be a substantial percentage. If Hilary wins but only a few percentage points over Jill, where your vote for Jill could have avoided Hilary and helped Jill actually win, them you spoiled it.
This election is nothing like we've seen in our lifetimes. The two power party candidates are the most hated, toxic candidates, in our known history. The push against the establishment candidates in both parties is unprecudented, as far as I know. Bernie huge voter base has to go somewhere and the are likely most not going to Hilary or Trump anyway. Jill has a real chance thanks to Bernie's voter refugees. She likely still won't win, especially if we see the same election fraud, suppression, purges and sketchiness as we did in primary. If they use the same hackable voter machines, the ones without paper backups that show no proof of cheating (the same that Hilary magically dominated in) then it doesn't matter anyway... They will cheat again.

2. This is not the place for political discussions. This site is for readers and writers to get away from that sort of trash and discuss books.

But every person who will vote the third party in this election will come from the Democrat vote. Which therefore means Trump will win.

I fully agree that a non/protest vote will have the same result as Brexit did. And oh the Bregret.

Not necessarily. A lot of Republicans will be voting Libertarian too. Most of them don't like Trump either.