Mark Leslie Lefebvre's Blog, page 27

Episode 188 – A Gritty & Realistic Adoption & Publishing Journey with Denise Massar

In this episode Mark interviews Denise Massar about her memoir “Unmatched,” about adoption, and about the work being done to find the right publisher for the manuscript.

Prior to the interview, Mark shares comments from recent episodes, a personal update and a word from this episode’s sponsor…

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

During their conversation, Mark and Denise talk about:

Denise’s memoir about adoption called “Matched”The process of private domestic newborn adoption and how it is different than the systems used to beHow competitive the process isHow adoptive parents are tasked 100% with finding their own birth momThe diverse range of women in a position of being pregnant and not wanting to keep their babyHow the search for a birth mother can feel seedyAdoption being a hot-button topic, potentially as hot-button as the topic of abortionSeeing how an open adoption could be, with Denise’s son Henry, and comparing that to her own adoption, which was secret/hiddenHow easy it was for both Denise and Mark to find their birth mothers thanks to the opening up of information, and the internetThe impact of the “yes, I am your mother” message Denise was sentCalling the mother who raised her, her mother, and her birth mom her birth motherHow Denise has always been a writer, and that she got her MFA in writing, but that this memoir was her first tangle productThe process of finding a publisher for her memoir which was an unexpected journey after finishing the bookHiring Jane Friedman to critique her query letterWhat a book proposal is, what “comp titles” areThe popular “adoption wheel” of shame/depression/etcThe agent query process for DeniseHow the book went out on submission the day that most of the United States went into pandemic lock-down in 2020The importance of an author being seen as current and relevant by a potential publisherThe title “Matched” and consideration of creating a more intuitive/SEO based title for the bookAnd more…

After the interview Mark reflects on the concept of how an editor goes to bat for a book at the editorial round table and other concepts discussed in the interview.

Links of Interest:

Denise Massar’s WebsiteTwitterInstagramFacebookMediumAre Editors Responding to Submissions During Coronavirus? (Article)5 Things I Wanted My Son To Have From His Birth Mother (Article)Episode 108 – Silver Linings with Talena WintersEpisode 163 – Getting a Creative Edge with Mickey MikkelsonThe Creative Penn Episode 546 – Global, Wide Self-Publishing with Mark Leslie LefebvreTop 35 Canadian Book Podcasts You Must Follow in 2021Lawrence HillFindaway VoicesPatreon for Stark ReflectionsWide for the WinMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big City

Denise Massar, an adoptee and adoptive mom, lives in Orange County, California with her husband and three kids. A Washington State native, she earned her MA in English Literature from Central Washington University. Denise enjoys: Thrift store wandering, reading in bed with Aussie licorice (red), sweaty spin classes, salt air, and the belly laughs of her kids.

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 187 – Business Minded Creative Marketing with Diana Wink

In this episode Mark interviews Diana Wink, fiction author, blogger and film director.

Prior to the interview Mark shares a personal update and a word from this episode’s sponsor…

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

During their conversation, Mark and Diana discuss:

How Diana wrote poems in Russian and German when she was young and also wrote a novel when she was 11Asking about how she could combine music, visual art and storytelling together, which lead to her interest in filmLoving the writing and the planning behind projects such as filmsHow the shooting is the most stressful part of a film, and in editing it’s often about regretThe way that everyone can have ideas that feed off of one another in a collaborative film projectWhat it’s like to see the reaction of a live audience to a film at a film festivalHow, in film, if you don’t have a budget, you have to first find it – which isn’t necessary when writing fiction. And how this led Diana back into writingDiana’s dystopian sci-fi trilogy under the name DF WinkHow science fiction and dystopian fiction can be a mirror held up to current events and realityThe documentary style podcast format that Diana usesA slogan Diana uses: “There is a platform for every outstanding story and you have one to tell”That similar problem most writers often have with actually writing their first novelDiana’s book for writers: The Business-Minded Creative and why she put it togetherHow Diana built her website (storyartist.me) using the principals of storytellingThe struggle Diana faces because of all the different passions and areas of creativity that she engages inHow Diana is fueled by every interview that she does for her podcastAnd more…

After the interview Mark reflects on a few things about what Diana said that inspired him, he thanks his patrons and listeners of the podcast.

Links of Interest:

Diana Wink WebsiteDFWink WebsiteStoryArtist.meFindaway VoicesPatreon for Stark ReflectionsWide for the WinMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big City

Diana Wink is an author, blogger and film director.  With a passion for stories since she can remember, she studied film making and made a career as director of successful short films (awarded in festivals) and advertising.

In 2015, she decided to go back to her roots and finally finish her first fiction book. Since then, she attracted 5-star reviews, raving fans and written many more novels.

On Story Artist, she decided to share her creative journey and help content creators in new and effective ways because her credo is: There is a platform for every outstanding story.
And you have one to tell.

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

This automated transcript of the interview portion of the episode has not been human-verified

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Diana welcome to the stark reflections podcast.

Diana Wink: Thank you. I’m so honored to be here.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I am thrilled to get to chat with you again. I want to go back for my listeners and just, um, let’s go back to when Diana first got an inkling to want to be a creative person. How did that creativity first come up for you?

Diana Wink: Um, it wasn’t writing. Actually. I started to write poems when I was seven and world my first novel when I was 11, I wrote it. When you break

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the first novel, when you were 11.

Diana Wink: Wow. Yes. It was like a teeny novel. It never got published or anything, but yeah. And it was ironically in two languages. So I wrote, I wrote poems in Russian because this is like my mother language.

And then when we moved to Germany, my novel was in German and now I’m writing in English, so, yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. Okay. I’ve got to ask, are you S are you still writing poetry? You were nine year old writing poetry. Did you continue that?

Diana Wink: I continued that up until like, when I went to university, I still wrote poems. I feel like when, like the emotions were high in the teenage years and stuff, it was like an outlet for me.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Of course, that yeah. Often you do find a lot of teenagers write poetry and then, and then what happens? Do we beat the life out of them or we’d be, we’d beat the emotions out of them or something like that. Is that, is that what happens when it all dries up? Yeah, no, no,

Diana Wink: you, you kinda, I think it’s like resignation and you accept life as it is and move on.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh man. So, uh, I know, uh, I know you do a lot of visual work, so photography, filmography, how did that go? When you started off with poetry and then obviously writing novels in multiple languages, uh, how did that transition to you for, uh, for the visual arts?

Diana Wink: Well, I feel like I was always interested in lots in, and I was doing music a lot too.

So I was playing piano and really interested in music. And I first thought I might even go to the university, setting something music related. But, um, then I got interested in visuals and then I thought, okay, how can I combine all of that music, visual, uh, work, visual art and storytelling. And this is where film came along.

And this is why I decided to study film. Oh my

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: God. I love that. That’s right, because it is the amalgamation of all of it. Isn’t

Diana Wink: it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s definitely it

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: was there a particular, yeah, because film, filmmaking is very cloud can be very collaborative. It can can be independent, but it can be very collaborative.

Was there a specific aspect that you preferred over? Like one over another.

Diana Wink: I feel like a brilliant, the writing. I preferred the writing. I’m, I’m, I’m a hopeless introvert and this is why I love the writing stage when you’re on your own or maybe with a couple of people and just bouncing off ideas, writing the script, the planning stage is also what I really love because it’s not that stressful.

You just. Plan and you get to fantasize and you get to think about all those possibilities and how you can solve problems with the budget that you have. The most stressful thing is actually the shooting itself, the shooting days. And once you’re in the edit, it’s like the regret part where you think, okay, We should have done this.

We should have done this. Why haven’t we done this? So then you try to make the best

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: out of it, right? Because all you have is the raw footage and you’re like, Oh, wow. Well, we’re not there. We don’t have the actors or the sat or any of the pieces. Yeah. You’ve got to make, do with. Well, that’s improv in a really, uh, it really restricted way that that has got to involve oodles of creativity then.

Right. It’s

Diana Wink: I, I still love film making, like, it’s still my, a huge passion of mine because you get to work with so many interesting people. It’s just, it’s such an amazing calibration. You have so many people, like even the. Smallest set involves around 20 people. Uh, and you have the camera person, the lighting person, audio, you have makeup, you have costume.

And all of these people love what they’re doing and they contribute to your vision. And the thing that emerges on the screen later on is everybody had something to do with it. And. It’s just, I love that. And you feed off the energy of each other. So, um, everybody has ideas and you bounce them off and you try to decide what’s best for the film, for the vision, for the story.

And it’s, it’s a really creative process process. Oh

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: yeah. I mean it is, um, um, having done very, very micro, uh, film kind of things in theatrical productions with people, I understand that incredible passion and intensity, and then. You’ve had the honor of not only getting to do this kind of thing, but some awards have come along.

Can you talk a little bit about, uh, some of that, uh, the, the award of the rewards or the reward of the awards? I should say

Diana Wink: no, there weren’t actually awards. It was just that I got to play my short film on several festivals con in LA, in. In Berlin. Yeah, it was really interesting. And actually in Berlin, I got even to see the reaction of the audience and to talk a little bit about the film to the audience.

And it’s, it’s like, you talked about theater and I actually do theater too, as an, as a director. And this is the. Good thing about theater. You get the feedback instantly from the audience. And I love that. And this was kind of a little bit like that. When you see your film play out on the screen and you see the audience react and you get to answer that questions, you actually see the reaction and it can be good.

It can be bad. You learn from your mistakes. And at the same time you see what worked. And this is really rewarding actually, as a creative.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh man. Yeah. I can only imagine, right. Uh, what that must be like. Cause as a, as a filmmaker, you don’t often get the chance. People are experiencing it in their own time, on their own screens, all over the, all over the place.

Um, and you never really get to see them and interact. So that must have been amazing. Um, and then, uh, as I understand it in 2015, You returned to your roots? Not necessarily writing poetry, but definitely writing fiction. What, what was it that prompted that change?

Diana Wink: Um, I understood that with film, like I said, it’s still a filmmaking, but it all depends on budget.

And if you don’t have a budget, you have to find that budget. And your, I have like everything I plan is really big. So if anyone reads my fiction, they will see that my story is I like these huge stories in the near future. And, um, To film that you need a huge budget and nobody’s going to give me that budget because I’m not a whole of what director and to get there.

It’s like, it’s like playing lottery. You never know if you get there. So I decided I love the writing process. Why shouldn’t I just sit down and start writing instead and publishing and see how those stories work? It’s it’s not saying that someday I might get the chance to. Realize that dream and film one of these stories, baby.

I don’t know, but instead of waiting around, I just decided, okay, I’ll just sit down and start writing instead.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh my God. So, and you write under a DF wink. Can you talk a little bit like, so w what, what are these. Imagine that your stories are going to cause a Hollywood budget person to go, Oh my God.

Diana Wink: Yeah.

So it’s, it’s set in its dystopia basically. And it’s set in the near future and I just finished my trilogy, uh, which also has like a fourth book. It’s um, it’s an developed prequel novella. Um, yeah. And it said in the near future, in a whole entire year, Different society where, um, there, like it’s, it’s a whole thing to describe.

And so you just story basically, but, uh, there’s this protagonist who is in the inner cities that are completely digitalized and have a whole other system and society and see family and, um, Connections differently. And then he gets to, to the outside world where people still have these old traditions and people from the outside hate the people on the inside cities.

And the same goes like the city people that hate the outsiders and he gets to see both sides and realize that all of this is like, Huge lie. Yeah. And this is where it all starts, like fighting the government and, you know, and uncovering secrets and so on.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And, and when I’m what I’m picking up from this, as it sounds like a really good science fiction is often a mirror held up to reality.

Right. Is that the case? So you can, you can talk about things without talking about things and offending people, because you’re looking at a, well, this is a future dystopian society. It’s not us. Right. Is that, is that the

Diana Wink: case? And this is what I love about dystopia. And this is, I guess, why I pick dystopia as my genre, because dystopia always holds a bridge to society.

If we just look at the classics 1984, brave new world, uh, and handmade, stale, and all these other dystopias, they all have something to say about the current society. So they are about the story in the future, but, but actually they’re about us.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I love that. I love that. So you you’re enjoying the ability. So I guess the writing allows you to kind of just let your imagination go and you’re not bound by budgets and, uh, and casting and makeup and special effects because it’s you, your imagination, those words on the paper, paper, and, and the imagination of the reader, right?

That you don’t need to depend on other things like that. Right.

Diana Wink: Yeah. And if I feel like it’s something I can’t control, and I guess I’m kind of a bit of a control freak. You probably have to be if you’re a director, because you have to control all these apartments. And I like this control. And when I’m writing, I have the control over everything over the story, over the process.

And this is actually why I’m an indie publisher. I’ve never. Tried to publish traditionally, actually I went in the, from the beginning when I discovered indie publishing, because I wanted the control. I loved that it’s it was all on me. And I got to do something about it instead of waiting for someone to give me permission.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. That’s amazing. So I want to talk a little bit about where you are, because I know you’re a five hours ahead of Eastern time zone, where you are in the world. And if there is a different perspective of independent publishing, uh, compared to the, you know, the North American centric, it’s all about Amazon, all about the U S all the time.

So where are you in the world? And is there a difference that you found, are there different markets? Are there different approaches that you may take.

Diana Wink: Yes, I’m based in Germany. And, um, let me say first that we actually really behind America and the English speaking market when it comes to self publishing.

So it’s just, yeah, it’s just starting, even with self publishing. Lots of. Authors. They don’t even know that self publishing is a good route and there’s still this mindset that self publishing is for those who couldn’t make it traditionally. And it’s like a plan B. And it’s not that, uh, let’s say it’s not that professional.

So it’s still in the hands of the authors basically, because we’re, I feel like I have at least seven years behind when it comes to that. Um, but so far ahead,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: What do you mean? Well, I mean, you’ve, you’ve been engaged in this space. You’re aware of it. You’re cognizant you don’t have the prejudices against self publishing.

How did you, how did you get ahead of the

Diana Wink: curve? Uh, yeah, because I’m in the English speaking market, basically. I, everything I know, I know from the English speaking. People like you like join a pen and like everybody else’s in independent publishing and teaching and educating authors and, um, yeah, I have the English speaking perspective basically.

And uh, if everybody who’s in the German writing and speaking market there, they don’t know all the stuff, but this is why I’m actually trying to educate the German authors as well from an English speaking. Perfect, uh, perspective. Yeah. So this is one part of it, but on the other side, I feel like. We are not that Amazon centric basically because, uh, we have to Lino.

It’s a big, big player here in the German market. And, um, people like the German authors still publish NKU a lot, but I feel like many authors are asking me. Okay. What about, uh, what about wide publishing? How can I do that? I want to be on Toledo. I want to be, uh, I want to be wide. I want to be everywhere, but they’re just not that educated, so they don’t know how to do this and they need more education and they need more mindset change, I guess, as well.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. It’s so fascinating because again, most of the perspectives, as you said, are coming from Western North American centric. And Talena just so for people who don’t understand is an Alliance, right? It’s an Alliance of major book retailers and small book retailers, all coming together to. To PR I think one of the things I love and respect about markets like Germany and France is there’s a lot of protection of the culture of the, of the creators from internal.

Is that, is that a sense that you’re still getting there?

Diana Wink: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. We are, but there’s a lot of protection, but I feel like some of it is also holding us back, you know? So we’re a little bit like afraid of innovation and afraid of. The new things, the new trends that are coming, this is why authors are afraid to go in the actually and they still think, okay, traditionally published is much, much better and so on, but it’s coming.

I feel like it’s coming, it’s coming slowly and authors get interested more and more in that because our publishing industry changes as well.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Cool. Now, uh, you, you mentioned that you’re trying to help other authors see the light and understand the, the bright future, not the dystopian future for at least with the dystopian for your fiction, but also for the non-fiction that you do.

And, and, and you’ve got the, uh, the story artists. Uh, so you’ve got the podcast and, and the thing I wanted to talk about, because you were talking about, um, being a director, And, and having that vision and putting the pieces together and, and kind of manipulating that. And one of the things I love about your podcast is, is you have that essence of the production is it’s not just a raw interview.

It’s an interview interspersed with, um, director commentary is the best way I can describe it as like, when you’re watching a movie you love. And then, and then the director put I pause and the director says, let me tell you a little bit about this scene and you do that in such a fascinating way. I like to call them reflections.

You’re reflecting on things along the way, but I, where did that come from your background in film, uh, that sort of approach.

Diana Wink: Well, first of all, thank you for that for the compliment. Um, well, I, I feel like I wanted everything to everything I do. I want to, I want it to be storytelling and I try to be the best.

It can be in the amount of time that I have, and I tried it. I tried to build it like a storytelling perspective, a little bit, that I’m the one telling the story, and this is why I’m commenting on it. So I’m telling, for example, your story and you get to tell me what you’re doing and your perspective on it.

And then I’m commenting on it, like from my perspective. And I tried to build it a little bit like a story and let it flow and see where are the highs, ups and downs cause conflicts and so on. And this is what I tried to do. This actually. Uh, the idea came from podcasts, podcasts that are produced with much, much larger budget, where you have like different speakers.

And then you have this one moderator who tries to guide you through this.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It’s like a BBC radio, like a really good program, right?

Diana Wink: Yeah. I tried to replicate that a little bit. I know it’s not the same, but taking this idea and trying to do it on a much smaller scale. And this is why I did that.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It’s like a documentary tech pretty much.

That’s what it felt like when I listened to your podcast. And I was like, I really liked that because it’s, uh, it was, it was it, you know, in the U S. It would be NPR here in Canada, it would be CBC. And that you would get that feel of this is someone who’s really cares is researched and there’s actually an, and is sharing again that that’s what we’re doing is storytelling.

Now you have, you have a slogan that I really, really love that I think is from your podcasts. And that’s, there was a platform for every outstanding story and you have one to tell. That seems to be the underlying basis. Uh, where did that come from that idea that you wanted to help pull, pull these stories together and tell other people’s stories?

Diana Wink: Yeah, I feel like everyone has a story to tell and. We’re often thinking. And I think it’s a problem of every creative person. We feel like imposters, imposter syndrome. What have, what do I have to offer to this world? Why should I, why should anybody listen to me? But I feel like if it’s a story, well, we all have a story to tell, but we need to learn how to talk, to tell it well, how to tell it in the right way, how to use the principles of storytelling for our advance to our advantage.

And yeah, just the learn, how to tell the story so that people will listen. Because. Everybody has a story to tell, but not everybody can tell that story in a good way. And this is why, what I’m trying to do, like educating creatives who have a story to tell and want to tell their story, how to do this. Uh, and I feel like storytelling is the answer to everything.

Like not even not only fiction or nonfiction books, it’s with marketing, even storytelling. I strongly believe in storytelling principles in marketing, for example, and in. And film audio, uh, podcasting blog posts, everything, basically even your own life, because storytelling is actually based on psychology a lot.

So yeah,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you just captured my heart in that opening is that storyteller is a storytelling. It’s the answer to everything. It’s the heart of everything. Isn’t it? It is so true when you think about that. Uh, it’s so true. And so what I love about that is you use, you’re applying a principle that is often considered.

Fictional tales, but can be used in documentaries effectively as you’re applying that in a way to help educate other writers and inspire them potentially to see, to see the good that can come from embracing digital. How has that experience been for you from when you first started doing it to, to where you are now?

Diana Wink: Um, I feel like it was a learning curve. Definitely. Uh, when I started writing the first novel, for example, it took me like. And one and a half or two years to write that. And that I, I feel like, I think everybody has that problem with the first novel. They feel like, okay, I’m never going to finish that with the second one.

You get, you have your routine, you have your process, figure it out at least a little bit. And with every novel that you write, it gets easier and easier physically. And this is with everything I feel with podcasting. I had my pockets. Not didn’t always sound the way they sound now. And they probably won’t sound the way this sounds now in a year or two, probably they will be different.

Right. And, um, it’s, it’s always a learning curve and I feel like this is why I love that doing that because I love the process. I’m not, don’t only love the results, but I love developing. I love looking forward. I love looking back, learning from that and developing as a creative, basically.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, that’s fantastic.

And so again, because, because you are a multi-talented creative and you like the different facets of story of, of bringing people together of inspiring of informing you, uh, just, uh, this year, uh, earlier this year in 2021, you released a book, a non-fiction book for writers, and it’s called the. The business minded creative.

So where did, uh, did that come from, work on the podcast? Did it come from other things that you were working on?

Diana Wink: It actually came from a struggle that I had that, you know, this, this typical like phrase you hear everywhere, just keep producing great content and things will come together for you. And I felt like, okay, I’m just going to do that.

And I produced content and produced and produced and produced. But, um, I, I felt like after two years of something, I was burning out because I was producing content, but I didn’t see. The people coming magically because I produce great content, you know? And, um, then I had Joanna Penn on my podcast.

Actually, I first took her course, which is the, uh, bright your author business plan. I think it’s called that way like that. And then she was on my podcast and she talked to me about business and creativity. And this is where. It all kind of started to come together for me. And when I started changing my own trajectory from being just creative and just producing great content to also thinking about business and thinking about how can I serve people, how can I make money with what I do and planning accordingly, not just hoping for the money to come in, but planning.

About okay. How, where will the money come from? How will it all come together? How will I reach the people, strategic marketing ideas that also were creative. And also this mind shift of not just thinking about myself as a creative, but as a creative entrepreneur, as a creative business woman. And from this.

And I, when I started doing this, I saw stuff changing in my creativity in my life and my outlook on how I interact and also people coming in and people, my audience growing and so on. And so on. I started seeing the results and from this came the motivation to write that book. And in that book, I combined kind of.

The first part is about creativity. So how can you establish a really, really sustainable creative practice, even if you don’t have a lot of time, because I know lots of people have day jobs and I still do freelance work now. And then, and. Why you still still need to have this creativity in your day to day life and how to hack your brain, how to like, um, yeah, just establish this creative routine where you can do deep creative work.

And on the other hand to have this business thinking and also creative business thinking, not just okay, it’s all about money, because I feel like we all be creative. Think, okay. If it’s a business, it’s a scam. And I feel guilty about taking money and. Why should I’m not Stephen King? Why should anybody buy my books and pay money, pay me for that.

And combining those two in your everyday practice and in your mind. So like this mind shift. Um, yeah, and I just pulled from my own ideas and also from other creative, successful creatives and other authors and their daily routines and their practices and brought it all together into this

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: book.

Fantastic. So as you were pulling these ideas together, as you were pulling this sort of, um, potential, um, checklists or plans or things that people could do, what were some of the things that you found often stood in an author’s way of achieving that? Creative business balance.

Diana Wink: I feel like with my, like I said before, mindset is one of the things, and I know from myself, like when, when I started being an indie publisher, I think we all at least.

Thought about that. Can anybody else do the marketing for me? I just wanted to ride my books. I don’t want to do the marketing stuff. Can I hire somebody to do the marketing for me? And I feel like it’s such a typical question and I know I’ve been guilty of it. And, um, this is. A huge, huge mistake that in our minds, like we have to understand that marketing is also really creative and nobody else can do the marketing for you because you’re the best person to do your marketing.

And it’s it’s so it can be so much fun if you just reframe it in your mind. And this is why I love when I discovered that storytelling. So that marketing can be achieved by storytelling. And it’s also marketing is telling a story. What I actually love to do then I started to realize, okay, it’s cool to do marketing, and you can do it in a very creative way.

And it’s a privilege because marketing is also connection with your audience, with your tribe and so on. And this is like, there’s so many wrong. Mindsets in creators that we have to tackle first, before we can get into the practical steps. Right. Wow. I

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: love that. Is there a possibly an example you might have of, of an approach in marketing, where you applied a storytelling principle and then suddenly it all became clear.

Diana Wink: Yeah. For example, in the way that I created my landing page on story artists.me, it’s all built with principles of storytelling, basically. So I thought about, okay, who’s the hero and the hero is always your target audience, not you basically. You’re the mentor that target audience. Yeah. We like to think about ourselves as heroes, but you’re not it’s the audience.

Um, and. Then. Okay. But do you have to find out first, okay. Who is this hero? Who is this person that is reading my, that is my ideal audience that will be reading this page. And then what’s his con the conflict is like the heart of story. So I have to realize, okay, what’s the problem? What does he want? All these basic storytelling.

Things steps that we take, what does he want? What’s in his or hers way of getting it. So who’s the villain or what can be like a force and you have to name it. You have to name it all in the page and get through it. Just start with the conflict. You talk about the problem you say, what’s holding them back, talk about the villain and then you come up with a solution and say, okay, this is the solution.

This is what I have for you. I’m the, you come in like the mentor and you tell them, okay, this is, um, My solution to the problem. And then there are like small things. For example, show don’t tell the evergreen principle for storytelling. It’s, it’s also the same in marketing. Like you have to show them why should they trust you?

You have to show them either by telling your own story or by giving them some facts or proof, uh, that could be testimonials from others and so on. And so show that you are you’re, you. No, what you’re talking about rather than just tell it. And there are these small storytelling principles that you can apply to everything, basically.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: That is amazing. Thank you. That is phenomenal. I think it’s, I think it’s an excellent example for an author to look at a task and go, Oh my God, how am I going to approach this? And you’re like simple story. I love, I love this line. Let’s just take it back to the basics. We’re there, here. We’re going to share a story with you, them with them, the, the audience, the reader in mind.

I love that. So because you have these, uh, multitalented, uh, ways that you approach creativity, um, If you, because you know, you, you, right, you’re passionate, you said you’re introverted. You love to create these worlds and share them, but you love collaboration as well. You love the, uh, you know, the theater and, and, and, uh, and video and, and all of the things that you can do with film, but then you also, I definitely am getting a passion for teaching and wanting to.

Stand in front of others and help guide them and mentor them, um, with all of those different hats that, that you are, you’re juggling, juggling hats, juggling, spinning plates, however you every want to do the analogy. What’s, what’s the area of, uh, that you would prefer to work on or do you, do you enjoy actually working on all of them?

Diana Wink: I feel like I actually do enjoy working on all of them. Um, maybe it’s, it’s like, it’s also a flaw because it’s for, it’s really hard for me to focus. There’s so much to do. And so many things that I want to do and to do them all at once. And I sometimes I feel like, and there’s also like your private life, my kid and everything else.

And I’m like, okay, maybe I have to. Maybe I should not do my podcast or not do my YouTube channel, or maybe I should start blogging, but I just can’t. I love all of this. And when I’m thinking about, okay, what should I stop doing in order to focus on something else? I really start to struggle. I’ll be honest with you.

I feel like maybe the most important or the one I enjoy the most is my fiction side. Definitely. I really love that. Um, But I also love the, to change up things. You know, when I finished my fiction book, I have to do something else before I dive into the next one, they have to change things up. Yeah. And it it’s, I don’t know if I could just be this author who writes fiction eight hours per day.

Uh, I’m not sure I can do that. I feel like I need to do different stuff. And also we talked about the energy and I feel like. There is a time when you’re, when I’m creative and I’m on my own, but I also like to get this motivation from others. To connect with people like with podcasting and meeting every podcast interview I do on my podcast.

It fuels me with so many ideas and so many. I actually do them for me. I know that my audience listens to, but they’re all for me. And, uh, it’s, like I said, with Janet Penn’s ban, her interview changed the course of my creativity and it’s. Most of them, do most of them give me new ideas. So yeah, it’s really hard to focus.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: That is fantastic. That is, uh, again, so many wonderful, uh, so many wonderful audio bites. You’ve given me not sure what I’m going to use for the teaser at the beginning, but I’ve so much choice. Thank you and Darren. Um, but so after inspiring my listeners, can you please, uh, let my listeners know where they can find all about you online?

Diana Wink: Yes. Sure. So. Everything I do for creative people for authors. When I teach them about storytelling is on story artists.me. And there’s also my podcast, my blog and everything else. And my fiction side, I write under the pen name of D F wink a and it’s also DF wink.com and everything else.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Diana, thank you so much for hanging out with me saying thank you so much for the, the re-inspiration.

Diana Wink: Thank you. Well, I’m so honored to be here. Thank you for having me.

Episode 186 – Fresh Starts: Tales from the Pikes Peak Writers

From mystery to romance and science fiction—from heartfelt essays to poetry that moves the soul, FRESH STARTS is a bold new anthology of tales from the Pikes Peak Writers. Mark interviews three of the contributors to this anthology in celebration of the new book’s release on Friday April 9, 2021.   Prior to the interview,

Prior to the interview Mark shares a word about this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In the interview Mark talks with:

Joshua Clark (“Nolan’s Bucket List: Snow Edition” / Cover Designer)

Josh is a writer, bookseller, graphic designer, and designer of the cover of Fresh Starts. He graduated with an art degree from Colorado State University-Pueblo. Josh is an active member of Pikes Peak Writers, Rocky Mountain Fiction Writers, and was the former Speakers Coordinator for Pueblo West Writers. His short story, ‘The Galaxy Got a Whole Lot Bigger,’ received a Silver Honorable Mention in Q4 of the 2020 Writers of the Future Contest. He is now busy writing his next novel.  

Bowen Gillings (“Dawn Trouble”)

Bowen Gillings is an award-winning author whose quirky tales range from superhero suspense to divine family squabbles. He is a devout travel enthusiast, committed martial arts dabbler, and closeted RPG nerd. He enjoys cooking, the outdoors, good whiskey, and good friends. Born in Wisconsin, he grew up in South Dakota’s Black Hills, matriculated in Minnesota, and then bounced around Europe with the Army. He’s lived on both coasts, danced on the Great Wall of China, and driven a Volvo from Alaska to Louisiana before settling in Colorado with his wife and daughter.

Terry Odell (“My Name is Marjorie”)

Although Terry Odell had no aspirations of becoming a writer until long after receiving her AARP card, she’s now the author of over thirty novels, novellas, and short stories. She writes mysteries and romantic suspense, but calls them all “Mysteries With Relationships.” Her awards include the Silver Falchion, the International Digital Awards, and the HOLT Medallion. A Los Angeles native, she moved to Florida where she spent thirty years in the heat and humidity. She now enjoys life with her husband and rescue dog in the cooler, dryer climate of the Colorado Rockies, where she watches wildlife from her windows.    

After the interview Mark reflects on a few things he learned and thought of based on the conversation.  

Links of Interest:

Pikes Peak WritersPikes Peak Writers Anthology: Fresh StartsYouTube Video of InterviewFindaway VoicesPatreon for Stark ReflectionsWide for the Win

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 185 – Promotions: Results and Analysis

In this episode Mark shares details about the recent “A Canadian Werewolf in New York” promotion he ran in March 2021 centered around an International BookBub Deal. He also shares some articles with tips from BookBub and Written Word Media.

Prior to the main content, Mark shares a word about this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In this episode Mark shares details about his Canadian Werewolf Promo, including the high level strategy used as well as the results.

He splits the intro to the promo and the results between sharing four articles from BookBub and Written Word Media about promotions.

Over all costs for the promotions run were $347.44.

Overall earnings from the promotions were $610.17.

Which resulted in a net gain of $262.73.

Links of Interest:

Findaway VoicesArticles mentioned in this podcastBookBubThe Best Day of the Week to Discount eBooksDo BookBub Deals Work for Permafree Books Multiple Times?Written Word MediaThe Best Book Promotion SitesThe Best Way to Promote a Book on BargainbooksyMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big CityPatreon for Stark ReflectionsSupporting documentation to go with this episode (for patrons)Wide for the Win

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 184 – Writing Raw & Real Memoirs with Jenn T. Grace

Mark interviews Jenn T. Grace, a nationally recognized business strategist, speaker, and award-winning author who is passionate about helping people share their stories of adversity.

Prior to the interview, Mark shares a personal update, welcomes new patrons and offers a word from this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In their conversation, Mark and Jenn discuss:

How, from the earliest age, Jenn had always wanted to be a “Dear Abby” type of writerA 2012 advice column that was an early “Dear Abby” dream-come-true for JennThe LGBTQ inclusion consulting work that led to very random questions and great learning opportunities to shareThe “raw and real” level of vulnerability that helps to break through the noise and clutterHow authors don’t often include their story enough in non-fiction to connect with readers in a way that they don’t expectThe way you can tell, when writing a memoir, if you’re going deep enough into the emotional resonance of a storyJenn’s memoir House on Fire, which she released in Sept 2020 and how she had no choice but to have to share that storyHow Jenn likes to think about writing, which is a solo event, as a team sportThe profound experience Jenn had of listening to her narrated memoir in another person’s voiceHow most people confuse memoir with autobiographyThe admiration that Jenn has for Dani Shapiro as a memoiristThe difference between a writer coach and an author coachPublish Your Purpose Press, the service that Jenn runs to help thought leaders create their booksThe “Getting Started for Authors” program and how it can help writers earlier in their journeyJenn’s role in helping writers to re-calibrate their focus and purpose and to ensure they’re always attending to that “North Star” for their projectHow writing a memoir as a piece of fiction is one strategy that writers can use when the stories they need to share are so raw and exposingThe emotional, personal, and legal ramifications related to sharing true stories about other peopleA “second pass” approach to changing identifying details/features/descriptions that can be done, but only after the core writing and re-writing is completedStrategies for how to change names, locations, specifics in a memoirThe value of Jenn’s other non-fiction books inspired from her “Dear Abby” writingThe personal satisfaction of helping other people realize their dream of writing a book

After the interview Mark shares a reflection about the importance of emotional resonance in writing memoir or fiction.

Links of Interest

Jenn T. Grace WebsitePublish Your Purpose WebsiteWide for the WinFindaway VoicesMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big CityPatreon for Stark Reflections

Jenn T. Grace is a nationally recognized business strategist, speaker, and award-winning author. Guided by the mantra, “Change happens in business,” Jenn believes social change happens first in the workplace before spilling over into mainstream society. She has been featured in Forbes, The Huffington Post, The Wall Street Journal, and CNBC.

Passionate about helping people share their stories of adversity, Jenn is the Founder of Publish Your Purpose Press, a publishing company that includes the PYP Academy, with programs that teach aspiring authors how to publish their books. In addition to publishing 60+ books that share the stories of others, Jenn has written six.

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 182 – What Is Wide Publishing?

In this episode Mark shares an excerpt from the introduction to the March 2021 book Wide for the Win, in which he shares his vision of what truly wide publishing is.

Prior to the main content, Mark shares a brief personal update as well as a word from this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

The Chapter of the book that Mark reads from a draft of Wide for the Win is:

Introduction: Prefatory Disclaimers, A Note on Biases, and How to Use this BookWhat is Wide?No, Seriously. Get to the Bloody Point: What is Wide?DisclaimersA Note on BiasesAn Admission of ExclusivityMy Numbers on WideHow to Use This Book

Links of Interest:

Wide for the WinFindaway VoicesMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big CityPatreon for Stark Reflections

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 181 – Things I Hate About KDP Select

In this solo episode, Mark shares three short sections from his forthcoming book Wide for the Win.

Prior to the main content, Mark shares a brief personal update as well as a word from this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

The three chapters/segments that Mark reads from a draft of Wide for the Win are:

Amazon’s Exclusivity Program is Called KDP Select, Not KUMy Biggest Pet Peeve About Amazon ExclusivityI Don’t Hate Amazon

Links of Interest

Wide for the WinFindaway VoicesPatreon for Stark Reflections

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 180 – Tips for Publishing Wide for Authors at Different Stages

This episode features an excerpt from Mark’s forthcoming book Wide for the Win, which was also shared on an Alliance of Independent Authors online article.

To “go wide” or “publish wide” is to distribute and sell books via multiple platforms, rather than limiting yourself to a single outlet, usually Kindle (the only retailer with a blatant exclusivity program).

Publishing wide is a common recommendation for long-term, sustainable, and scalable growth.

Prior to the interview, Mark shares a personal update that includes a forthcoming promo run and the exhaustion he is recently feeling with multiple book launches in a relatively small window, as well as a word from this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In the reading of the book excerpt/article excerpt, Mark shares ideas for authors at different stages of publishing wide.

At the Start of Your Indie Writer journeyComing out of a Tour of Duty in KDP SelectReturning to WIDEYou’ve Been WIDE and You’re Not Selling

Links of Interest

For Independent Authors: The Ultimate Guide to Publishing Wide (ALLI article)Wide for the WinFindaway VoicesMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big CityPatreon for Stark Reflections

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

Episode 179 – Emily Goodwin on Writers of the Future

In this episode Mark interviews Emily Goodwin. Emily is the Vice President Public Affairs for Author Services, Inc. based in Los Angeles, California. She has been involved with book publishing since 2007, including the international Writers & Illustrators of the Future Contests. She is the producer for the Writers of the Future annual Achievement Awards as well as the online writing workshop.

Prior to the interview, Mark shares a personal update that include some mistakes he made in the recent release of his novel Fear and Longing in Los Angeles as well as a word from this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In their conversation, Emily and Mark talk about:

The blind-judged free to enter contest that Writers of the Future operations for beginning writersHow stories can be read by NYT Bestselling science-fiction and fantasy writers like David Farland, Brandon Sanderson, Orson Scott Card, and a dozen othersThe four quarters of the contest, and the fact that authors can enter each quarterWinners for each quarterly contest who get flown in to spend a week long boot-camp in a hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard with the esteemed bestselling sci-fi and fantasy judgesThe way that Illustrators and Writers collaborate and the amazing “art reveal” experience that happens when the artists, who have been working on pieces to match each story, reveal their work for the first timeSome of the details of the workshops and lectures they participate in during the weekly boot-camp, including the “24 hour story” challengeGetting to learn from authors like Larry Niven, Robert J. Sawyer, Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca MoestaThe gala book launch event for the Writers and Illustrators of the Future anthology that usually involves signing upwards of 500 to 600 copies of the bookThe follow-up media support offered to authors once they return to their respective homesThe incredible networking that happens at the annual event, between the writers and illustrators and the attending judges and presenters and workshop leadersHow the annual event was affected in 2020 because of the global pandemicThe purpose of the contest to help new writers and illustrators with a bit of a boost and kick-start to their career based on their talentThe free online WOTF workshops that are available for anyone to participate in which are led by Dave Farland, Tim Powers, and Orson Scott CardAnd more…

Links of Interest

Writers of the FutureWriter ContestIllustrator ContestFree Online WorkshopWriter JudgesIllustrator JudgesEpisode 109 of the Writers of the Future Podcast (Canadian Author Mark Leslie on Passion and Werewolves)The Naked Podcaster: Best-Selling Author, Rejection, Divorce, Starting Over, and Falling In Love with Mark LeslieBlack History Month Organizations & ResourcesFindaway VoicesMark’s Canadian Werewolf BooksThis Time Around (Short Story)A Canadian Werewolf in New YorkStowe Away (Novella)Fear and Longing in Los AngelesFright Nights, Big CityWide for the WinWide Writer SurveyWide for the Win Submission FormPatreon for Stark Reflections

Emily Goodwin is the Vice President Public Affairs for Author Services, Inc. based in Los Angeles, California. She has been involved with book publishing since 2007, including the international Writers & Illustrators of the Future Contests. She is the producer for the Writers of the Future annual Achievement Awards as well as the online writing workshop. She has been active with the IBPA Benjamin Franklin Awards as a judge. She is involved in community activities in the greater Los Angeles area and has been Vice President Community Outreach for the Hollywood Christmas Parade since 2014. Emily has also been an Honorary Commander for the US Air Force since 2018 and as of 2020, the US Space Force.

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

This transcription of the interview portion was computer generated and has not been verified by a human.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Hey, Emily. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today.

Emily Goodwin: Hey, thank you so much. It’s great to see you again, Mark.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah, it’s been way too long since we’ve seen each other.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah. Many years actually. Last, when you were out at the writers of the future event.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. Wow. It’s, uh, I hate to count the years, but I want to get into writers of the future.

Can you talk a little bit to, what is the, what is the contest and how does this work?

Emily Goodwin: So writers of the future, it’s an international writing contest. That’s been going for 37 years. It was started by L Ron Hubbard back in the eighties. And it just, it’s a free contest. Anybody can enter. Uh, there are no restrictions on age, gender, race, religion, you know, anywhere in the world, anybody can enter.

It’s free to enter. It’s a blind judge contest. It’s short story, writing science fiction fantasy. So we get stories in from all over the world. And we have this amazing, uh, blue ribbon panel of judges that review the stories that come in. But as I mentioned, it’s a blind judge contest. So when the stories come in, the name gets removed and it’s strictly on merit alone.

So, you know, and, and your story gets seen by people like Brandon Sanderson, Dave Farland Orson Scott card. Larry Nivon Tim powers. I mean, there’s about 30 judges. I mean, that’s only a handful of, you know, the amazing authors that, uh, contributed to our time. And it’s, it’s all there as like a pay it forward, a helping hand for new aspiring authors.

And, uh, it’s something that. You know, it’s still funded by L Ron Hubbard to this day as a way to give back because he himself was a science fiction, fantasy writer. And well, he actually wrote in all genres, and all kinds of stuff. He wrote mysteries as well, Western, he wrote detective new R and M a lot in the 1930s and forties.

And, um, in the eighties he did the Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth. And then that was around the time when he started the contest. So the contest season science fiction fantasy, and it’s been going, it just grows every year. We don’t give out the numbers of entries, but it’s a lot.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow. And it’s a free contest and it’s quarterly, right?

There’s like four times a year.

Emily Goodwin: You can, you can enter that’s right. So, um, it’s, it’s divided by four quarters each year. Anybody can enter, you can enter all four quarters if you want, but each quarter there’s a first, second, third place winner. And then at the end of the year, all of those winners, so there’s 12 of them for the year.

They all get published in the annual anthology. I have one here. Is this the latest one? Oh,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I don’t, I don’t think I’ve seen that yet.

Emily Goodwin: I’ll have to send you one. Wow. That’s gorgeous. And so the, the winners get published in here. So there’s 12 short stories and then there’s also a companion art contest, illustrators of the future where.

Like the winning art for the

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Of my God.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah. It’s published in there. This is really just amazing stuff. Um, and kind of see. Wow. And it’s all, it’s all in science fiction fantasy, but, um, just some serious talent. I’ll just show you a few.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It’s amazing, Wow.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah. So, so the 12 winners, both writers straight or get published in the anthology every year.

And we also fly them out to Hollywood for a week long workshop with those judges that I mentioned earlier, they also fly into Hollywood and it’s like a week long bootcamp. And that culminates at the end of the week in a big awards event where, you know, we have, it’s a big red carpet event. It’s kind of like the Oscars for the writers.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It was such an amazing experience to be there. I mean, just off the strip on the Hollywood strip and then the black tie event. But so one of the things I loved and I want to get into some of the things that you guys do with the authors, because I think it was like, it’s like a world renowned experience that most authors will never, uh, get to experience, which I think is amazing, but, uh, you’ve got the 12 writers and the 12 illustrators.

And then what happens is there’s the art reveal. I remember being there for the art reveal and it was such a beautiful experience. Can you talk?

Emily Goodwin: Yeah, for sure. That’s like one of the most emotional parts. Uh, I always have to bring my tissue for that particular event. So what happens is, is there’s. You know, there’s a writer winner and an illustrator we’ll, we’ll get paired up with, with one of the stories.

So they will illustrate one of the stories out of the book. And so the artist, you know, he reads the story. He, you know, creates his illustration. That’s actually what gets published in the book, but the authors haven’t met the illustrators and vice versa. So they come here to do their workshops. And then at some point in the middle of the week, there’s a big art review.

We call it. And, um, they have like all the. There’s like a easels with art all around the room and the, and the art is placed on easels. And the illustrators are kind of like in the back, along the back wall, kind of waiting in the art and the writers come in and they have to find their piece that goes with their story and they usually find it.

Immediately. And then the illustrator comes over and, and it’s just the sweetest thing. Like you see these they’re hugging and crying and, and, you know, wow. Somebody made that for my story and the kneeler stares like, well, you like it. And, and it’s just such a, an emotional moment. And then, you know, it’s, it’s nice when we’re able to capture that and photos and stuff, but, um, and then they’ll just be talking and then they’re like, Becomes best buds for life after that.

And, you know, it’s just a really special moment when they get to like see that something they wrote, they created in their mind and put it on paper. And then this illustrator comes in, creates. You know, their interpretation of it. And it’s just been a huge, like emotional event every year. And it’s something definitely we look forward to that happened like a couple of days before the big gala event.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. I remember watching it too. And it was, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s kinda like it’s tear provoking to see it’s beautiful to see these, these two creative forces come together and kind of, uh, yeah, it’s just this wonderful moment of harmony, uh, that happens, but yeah. There’s other things that happened during the week as well.

And it, and you mentioned some of the names of some of the people that actually, um, get to teach them and do workshops with them. What’s what’s the experience like.

Emily Goodwin: So when they come here, let’s say, take the writer workshop. They arrive here. They, you know, they go into, it’s literally like a boot camp week long workshop that, you know, if they’ve come and they’ve won the contest, then they have talent already.

And they know how to put a story together. They know how to structure a sentence. So the workshop more is on like the. The business of writing and how to make it in the industry. And, um, you know, they they’ll Polish them up also on their story writing. And, but the there’s like a week where you have like David Farland, uh, Tim powers and Orson Scott card that will lead the main, you know, structured workshop where they really also get their product, but activity at, because you know, some like if you’re writing short stories and you know, magazines come and they, they come and they go and there’s deadlines.

So. They’ll they’ll get them in that frame of mind of completing things as well. And they actually have a 24 hour short story that they have to write as part of the workshop. And some of them are like, that’s terrifying, but their results are amazing. Cause they’ve just been through a whole workshop on how to do this and what to do.

So when they actually finally do it, it, the results are spectacular. And some people take in those short stories and they have been published, no editing, nothing. They’ve submitted those stories and had them published. So it’s been a real success and they really work with them on research and they go to the library and they go learn, you know, to get inspiration.

And they’ll go out on the street and talk to strangers and. And then once they’re through that part, then we have the guest speakers coming in and the other judges. So then one day they’ll spend a day, you know, an afternoon with Ellery NIBIN, and then another afternoon with Robert J. Sawyer and Brandon Sanderson and Neto Cora four.

And so they’ll get different aspects of the industry and different aspects of, of the, you know, the editing cycle or different, you know, or being at conventions. The different perspectives from the different authors. So by the time they leave here, they’re, they’re completely packed with information. They go home, they take three weeks to digest it all and then start putting it to use.

Well,

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I think, uh, the, the year that I was there, I remember there was a day. I think Tim must’ve taken them. Was it to the, uh, the printing facility where they were actually seeing the book be made. Yes. And I was like,

Emily Goodwin: Oh my gosh, I have done that numerous times where they actually went to the printing house and watch the books come off.

The, the printer right there alive. We’ve done different activities with them. Some of them, you know, Have gone, like one year we took them all to JPL and another, you know, NASA one year. So there’s different activities that happen. But, uh, yeah, I remember that when you were here, they did, they went to the print shop and they were smelling the books, finding their story right away.

There was like, so like, you know, it wasn’t even count yet. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And I remember, I mean, the gala event was, was something else. Um, uh, that was the first time as a keynote speaker. I had ever had the luxury and privilege of using a teleprompter, which makes you look so smart. So cool.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I mean, I also, I mean, I I’m, I’m honored.

I got to be, uh, I got to be the first person to congratulate Orson Scott card when he got the lifetime achievement award, because I was on stage right after him. So as he was coming off stage congratulations as I was nervously heading out. Um, but, uh, That that event is, uh, pretty amazing. Like I think a Wolf moon, uh, I, I saw recently he shared some pictures was he was sitting beside, I think it was Dean Wesley Smith on one side of him and Robert J sorry, on the other end there.

And they’re all signing copies of, of, of volumes and everyone’s dressed and it looks so beautiful and it was just this amazing event. And I remember cheekily saying to some of the authors, like. Um, take lots of pictures because your next book launch probably won’t be quite so eloquent.

Emily Goodwin: That’s the truth.

I mean, it’s, it’s definitely the full Hollywood experience when they come here for the event and, um, you know, they it’s true. They didn’t their next signing. Won’t exactly be like that. But, you know, once they get like that, it’s like a huge amount of pressure. There’s a L there’s they sign like at least five, 600 books.

And that night of the event with the people that have attended the event, and then there’s a ton of networking and a lot of, you know, everybody’s there from the industry. So. Then, you know, once they go out, we send them back home. After they’re done with all of this, then we send them out on book, signing tours and media tours, and we booked them on radio shows and TV shows and, um, send them around, you know, doing book signings.

And once they have that age, Experience here. Anything else we send them out to do is like, Oh, I got this. You know, so it doesn’t compare. They put me on stage in front of a thousand people when I was in Hollywood on a red carpet with microphones in my face. So the great thing

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: is, is if you’ve connected them to local media to do something like in their state or province or wherever they are in the world, That that can help them for their next release because now they have a contact at the radio station or wherever or whatever.

Right. So it, it really, um, I think one of the, one of the hidden elements that’s not necessarily obvious is the, you get, you, you have a relationship with some of the judges because you get to spend time learning from them. One-on-one you get relationships in the industry. There may be media contexts that you, you got, like, I think it’s, uh, an amazing relationship building experience too.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that happens every year, that is just a big deal for these guys. Like I said, the networking, but they do the workshops all day long. And then at night, if I’m looking for any judge or any winner, I’m going to find them all at the bar with the judges, just picking their brains till two in the morning.

Um, I don’t know if people ever sleep when they’re here. Uh, we give them time to sleep, but they’re, they want to get as much as they can while they can. And they make lifelong friends and. Yeah. And the writers, they, you know, now in these days we have social media and internet and stuff, so it’s much easier for them to get to know each other.

And, you know, we still also stay connected with them. Like when we go to like conventions and stuff, we will bring, you know, we’ll have a place at the. At the writers of the future in galaxy press booth, where, you know, past winners of the contest can come in and we’ll give them a space. If they have new books out, they can autograph books.

If they don’t happen to have a new book out, they can sign writers, a future books. But, um, so that’s always nice. And you know, like last year we were in salt Lake city and we had people from volume 17 volume nine and you know, hour and 37. So once you’re kind of, part of the family, we’ll take care of you as long as.

As long as you name, as long as we have your email address and phone number and reach you.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And I know, I remember I I’ve seen you guys at BookExpo America, uh, Frankfurt book fair in Germany, uh, uh, London book fair. And I think it might’ve been London book fair, where I bumped into one of your authors who was actually there signing copies of the recently released.

And I’m like, Oh my God, this is awesome.

Emily Goodwin: Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Um, so it’s 2020. It was an odd year. Um, was there a giant gala in-person event? How did, how did, how did you have to deal with the pandemic

Emily Goodwin: and everything? Well, so that obviously changed everything because, you know, normally we bring everybody into Hollywood. We fly them from all over the world.

We had winners from volume 36 from Australia and England and Iran and all these different places that, um, we were not able to fly them in just because of the pandemic. So we originally had postponed it to the fall cause our event is normally in April, but again, in the fall it was still not safe to bring people in.

So we asked the winners themselves, you know, if they would like to have a virtual event or if they would rather hold off and do a combined event, like a double whammy in, in 2021 with the volume 37 winners. And I think almost a hundred, I think out of the 24. You know, cause there’s 12 writers, 12 illustrators, only one person won.

It was okay with doing it virtual. So they were definitely wanting to come here and have the full experience. So we decided to postpone the event. We did, however, do a virtual art reveal because we were going to re we did release the book. The one that I showed you, the volume 36, we did release that one.

So, um, so we did the art reveal before releasing it, so that. You know, they got to have that experience and it was still, you know, super emotional. And you can still find that on the writers, in the future YouTube channel, if anybody wanted to see that art reveal. Oh,

you

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: know what? I haven’t seen that. I’m going to have

Emily Goodwin: to check.

You have to go. You have to check it out. It’s not quite the same as being there live, but. You know, there was definitely some emotion going on in there. I can

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: imagine just, uh, I know the photographers that I’ve seen, they’re just amazing, amazingly talented people. So I can imagine the videographers are probably just as you know, zooming in on, on the right moments.

Emily Goodwin: We literally did it as a zoom event. Oh, that’s right. It was zoom. It was, I keep thinking, Oh, I wish it was in person. Um, but yeah, we did it in zoom. So you’ll see all the heads all across the screen, you know, but we showed the art. So you’ll, it flips through each of the art pieces. And then the, the art, the artist and the writer will connect up and talk about it for a little bit before we go onto the next one.

So you get to see actually more of it than you would if you were in the room. Cause you can not hear only like. Two people at a time. So he gets to see all of it there. So that was nice. We did that. And then, like I said, we decided to postpone the event and, um, we’re looking at doing it later this year in 2021.

And one cool thing is, um, echo Chernik she’s our coordinating judge for the illustrator contest. She did the cover art for this one. Okay. And how we decided to do it is, um, she’s doing a, a follow-up to this one. So it has a similar look like the same character, right. So there’ll be like a back-to-back, you know, so, cause we always do like the, the stage is like the theme of the book cover.

So we’re not going to shaft one versus the other. So we kind of have the same artists doing the same thing. So they all get, it’s like one big happy family and it’s going to be a rowdy bunch of 48. It’s going to be big, but it’s going to be great. I can’t wait, wait. We’re, we’re definitely excited having everybody back again.

So

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: this amazing opportunity that any writer, so, uh, one of the caveats is, uh, if you have had a professional sale, you’re not eligible to enter

Emily Goodwin: it basically, right? Yeah. You can go. Anybody can go to writers of the future.com. And right there on the site, the rules are listed. Um, it’s not that it’s up to a certain amount of sales and if you’re self published, it’s up to a certain amount, like 5,000 pits.

Right, right. So, um, so anybody can just go there and see the rules@writersofthefuture.com. And if they have any question about whether they’re qualified or not, because it is a contest for amateurs you’re right, right. But, um, but there’s a qual what it States on there on the website, what qualifies amateur.

So

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: some people. Yeah. So the story, but not for professional rates or

Emily Goodwin: whatever then. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like three stories and like a certain amount of sales. So yeah. Yeah. So some people will think that they’re not qualified, but they actually are. So it’s definitely worth checking

out

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and, and I think, um, It’s a free contest and it’s really designed to help kickstart and help beginning writers recognize, you know, work through the, obviously the, the craft.

Um, yeah. Cause that’s how they get there. Yeah.

Emily Goodwin: That’s the purpose of it. That’s the whole purpose of the contest when L Ron Hubbard started, it is because you, you have somebody who’s out there and they don’t have a voice. They don’t have the connection. It shouldn’t, but they have the talent and it just gives them a voice and it gives them, you know, puts them in view of, you know, people who, uh, who themselves are extremely successful, who say, this person has talent and it’s not based on who they are, anything other than their talent alone.

And that’s the way that Owen Hubbard designed it so that it just made a level playing field for anybody to be able to have an even chance of winning. Wow.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And then on top of that, uh, and I think it was just, just in 2020 that you launched an additional resource again, completely free for writers. Can you talk about your, uh, the writers, the future online workshops?

Emily Goodwin: Yeah, for sure. So one of the things that a lot of people look forward to, uh, wanting to win the contest there is, I did not mention earlier, but there is cash prizes. You can win anything from 500 to a thousand dollars for winning the contest. Oh yeah. It’s not

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: just a trip to.

Emily Goodwin: Yes, the new Hollywood trip.

Yeah. We also get cash pies. You also get paid prorates for your short story. And then there’s a grand prize winner and it gets announced at the big event and they get an additional check for 5,001 writer, one illustrator. So in addition to that, um, one of the big things, um, That people want, you know, when they, when they win, why they want to win this contest is because they get to come and be a part of that workshop, like people so want to be in that room with Orson Scott card and Tim powers and Dave Harlan and Brandon Sanderson and Larry NIBIN and Rob Sawyer and all these guys.

And because it’s such a wealth of information and they just are learning from these greats. And so. We keep getting emails, like, look, I had, I had two honorable mentions this year and I’m like so close, but if I could just get in that workshop, then I might, you know, so people will want to get in on this workshop.

So what we did at the beginning of the year, we actually put it out at the beginning of the lockdown, like shortly after the pandemic started and people couldn’t go out, we took all like the. Some of the basics. It’s not the full workshop, but it’s the basics that you learn in the workshop. And it’s, it’s led by, um, David Farlan, Orson Scott card and Tim powers.

And it’s a free online writing workshop. It’s at writers, the future.com and we w we put it up there for anybody to come and participate. There’s uh, 12 sections. There’s. Um, I think there’s over 10 videos in there from these wow, these guys and, uh, it’s about five hours worth of five or six hours worth of videos on there.

And there’s essays by Alan Hubbard and I’ll just buttress and anybody goes through and it takes you step-by-step, you know, from the beginning from research, um, you know, writing dialogue, writing, narration, how to start. Again, complete a story, how to add suspense, how to, you know, emotion, um, art and then productivity.

So you get that kind of stuff on the, on the online workshop. And then you get a little certificate at the end that says, you know, I completed the writers of the future were online workshop. And, um, so, and there’s also transcripts with all the videos and it’s set up for people to go at their own pace. So we put it up there.

So. You know, some people will do it on weekends and there is no strict class to follow. You just go through your own pace. You can go back as many times as you want reread something, you watch something. And we put that up and, you know, we were, we were hoping, you know, that we would be able to help a few hundred people.

And within 48 hours we had 2000 people sign up and we were like, Whoa. And, um, now I think there’s over. I think it’s up 5,000 now from 108 countries. So it’s been extremely popular. Yeah.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh. And, and people from anywhere in the world can, can, can take advantage of this for free, which is amazing. Yes.

Emily Goodwin: And I just checked it out today.

It looks like about 160 Canadians have gone on and done the course. So I’m not partial or anything.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So, uh, sort of, as we, as we wrap up a couple of final questions, I’m dying to ask you and I’ve never asked you, this is, um, uh, Have you ever taken advantage of the learning about writing or illustrating? And are you a writer or illustrator yourself or is there some other creative pursuit singing?

Like what is it, what’s your forte?

Emily Goodwin: Well, I mean, I, I obviously run public relations for author services and, and. The contest. And so, you know, my writing is very different. It’s the, the blogs and the, you know, the bios and to helping people with different aspects of that. But like, I, like I said, the videos and the essays, I’ve probably watched all those videos, at least five or 10 times over as I put the course together.

So, um, Yeah, but it’s yeah, I mean, of course I, I, every time I listened to these guys or watch them, I always learn something. It’s, they’re amazing.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you for spending time with me today. Can you please let my listeners know it just, uh, I guess is it writers of the future.com is that’s pretty much the place where you can find all the information.

Yeah.

Emily Goodwin: And the writers of the future.com is kind of like the one-stop shop for everything. That’s where you can find like the anthology. You can also get that a galaxy presser, Amazon, um, and then, or anywhere books are sold to the right. This is the latest one. Yup. It’s engine number 36, that’s number 36.

That’s the one that’s out right now. 37 will be coming out later this year. But, um, yeah, that’s it. You can find that at writers, the future.com galaxy press.com or Amazon or anywhere books are sold, the contest is that writers of the future.com. And so is the online workshop and all the information, the history of the contest.

Anything you want to know about it is also there. So, and then we have a. Social media channels. Um, well WOTF or writers, the contest, um, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, you can go there and, um, keep, keep tabs on what’s happening with the contest and, um, who’s winning and all the excitement. Awesome.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And there will be all those links that, uh, Emily mentioned will be in the show notes at starkreflections.ca. Emily on behalf of writers, especially speculative fiction science fiction, fantasy writers, thank you so much for doing all this for them.

Emily Goodwin: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on and, thanks for representing Canada for us over there. Yay Canada.

Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Thanks, Em.

Episode 177 – Author Insights from Youth Services Librarians

Mark interviews Julie Bonser (Head of Youth Services) and Michelle Rutter (Teen Services Librarian) from Eastern Munroe Public Library in Pennsylvania.

Prior to the interview is an message about this episode’s sponsor.

You can learn more about how you can get your work distributed to retailers and library systems around the world at starkreflections.ca/Findaway.

In their conversation, Mark, Julie, and Michelle talk about:

Julie and Michelle’s respective titles, the role each of them plays at the library and a little about their backgroundThe five different locations in Monroe County where Michelle provides the teen services programingHow Julie is not typical as a librarian as a “book-centric” personAn explanation of the designation of the term “librarian” what that means and how it differs in different states and the difference between “provisional” and “professional”The significant differences and focuses of public, academic, and school librariesWhat the average day in the life of a youth services librarian might be likeSome of the strange and odd activities that a teen services librarian might find themselves doingChanges that Julie and Michelle have seen since the start of the pandemicCollaborations and sharing with different departments in the libraryExamples of some of the activities programmed for the library, such as a teen writing workshopThe circulation of physical YA books as being the highest it has ever been at the libraryPlatforms the library uses for book acquisition, as well as how they find out about and decide what books to purchasePreferences and biases that librarian curators might haveWhy a writer of books for younger readers might have a bigger challenge or more resistance to getting books into libraries verses authors of adult titlesLibrarians looking at holes in title selection as well as specific representation of indigenous voices, #ownvoices, etcRecommendations for how to contact and reach out to libraries to let them know about your bookAnd more…

After the interview, Mark shares a couple of reflections about things the conversation with Julie and Michelle made him think about. He also thanks patrons and listeners.

Links of Interest

Eastern Monroe Public LibraryAn Author’s Guide to Working with Libraries & BookstoresBlack History Month Organizations & ResourcesFindaway Voices – Royalty Bonus OpportunityFear and Longing in Los AngelesWide for the WinWide Writer SurveyWide for the Win Submission FormPatreon for Stark Reflections

Julie Bonser graduated with a degree in Elementary Education but somehow ended up in libraries. She is currently the Head of Youth Services at the Eastern Monroe Public Library in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, but also has prior experience in circulation, cataloging, and adult reference. Serving kids and teens is her main passion, which keeps her energized, up-to-date, and endlessly entertained. Julie is a lifelong resident of the Pocono Mountains. She enjoys children’s literature, board games, Tetris, and strumming the ukulele.

Michelle Rutter is a Teen Services Public Librarian in NE Pennsylvania along with her skeleton assistant Bona Lisa. She is a lifelong bibliophile and has enjoyed teaching such a big word to little kids when she worked in school libraries. She has also worked in an academic library where she once cataloged a piece of heavy machinery as a joke because the facilities department parked it in the library for so long. When she’s not perpetrating benign mayhem at work or reading she enjoys dancing, yoga, and various creative pursuits.

Bona Lisa is a Halloween decoration given a greater afterlife as Michelle’s pandemic companion and trusty sidekick on the job. She’s a bit thin-skinned but her work ethic is hard to beat as she has worked her fingers to the bone.

The introductory, end, and bumper music for this podcast (“Laser Groove”) was composed and produced by Kevin MacLeod of www.incompetech.com and is Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0