Gail Simone's Blog, page 1179
September 11, 2011
APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To See Back In The DCU
I think that the attiude some of the creators have had has been off-putting, and I'm speaking mostly as a superman fan. The disrespect shown to the idea of him being a boy scout, the idea of his marriage being taken away because it "domesticated him" as if that is a bad thing when anyone who knows Clark Kent knows that love and marriage are what he wants, and the idea that Lois lane is nothing but a "damsel in distress" is extremely sad. All i needed was DC to say once that they know the attachment that readers have to them love story of Clark and Lois. That they respect that relationship, and this reboot is just giving them a chance to give an iconic love story a new telling. Instead we got " marriage sucks", except for Animal Man of course. I got into reading comics through watching smallville, who in my opinion nailed the Clark and Lois relationship. I started loving the comics version, being able to see it so much in the smallville version. I also saw a superman who wasnt above the law, who was kind, gentle and humble. I also wanted to continue reading about him. When smallville ended, I looked to comics to fill that clois need. Sadly, the relationship was barely featured in the WoNK and Grounded story lines (which, why the marriage was blamed for anything I will never know, given it was barely shown in the last 2 years). But instead, I get nasty digs about superman, Clark, Lois, and marriage. DC had the chance to really get me as a superman and clois fan looking to fill the void after Smallville. Unfortunately their need to batman-ize superman, diss marriage and love for superman and Lois, and their disrespectful PRhas pretty much ensured I'm not on board with this reboot and they aren't getting my money. Maybe I eventually will be. Maybe when I see a hint in reviews that superman isn't acting obnoxious. When I see a hint of the iconic love story of Clark and Lois, because frankly not going there tells me there is out of character writing going on because in character? It is Lois and Clark. Maybe when creators understand that dissing something people love is not the way to get money, and start respecting readers, then I will start spending my money on DC's reboot. Until then, I live in back issue land and with smallville DVDs for my superman fix. Where superman is allowed to be a sweet, kind, but powerful beacon of hope with a wife and family for him to love. Because that is my superman.
As someone who routinely says the wrong thing at the worst possible time, I have some sympathy for creators and editors who have added fuel to the fire while people are still adjusting from the shock of this whole thing, but yeah, I agree, there have been some very weird responses.
Marketing people, that's a different thing, I don't think anyone really expects them to be doing anything but promoting a new initiative. But I do feel editors and writers should be trying to consider people's feelings a little bit. You don't need to trash the past to do something new.
That metaphor just went somewhere terrible...: Commentary on another person's review of Batgirl #1 (To be reviewed later)
There are a vocal group of fans out there who firmly believe that Babs should stay wheelchair bound forever so that she can 'remain an inspiration to wheelchair users everywhere' yet, in a world where Batman recovers from his back being broken and the second Robin can rise from the grave, does…
Yeah. I don't think people who wanted Oracle to stay in the chair were guilty of 'positive discrimination.' For the most part, they either simply preferred Barbara as Oracle, they liked that version of the character best. Or, they simply felt that Oracle was a meaningful and rare representation of a person with a disability that was powerful and inspiring.
Anyway, that was a well-written response, thank you.
Yes, exactly. Oracle is one of the most powerful figures and she's a smart, badass woman—and her intelligence, her skills, are what make her so powerful. That story where ten potential Oracles are kidnapped, holy shit, it's my favorite everything.
I think you mean Sensei and Student, maybe, unless that happened in another story? In which case, thank you very much.
Oracle means a lot to me, too. I don't talk about it much, but she's been an inspiration to me pretty much constantly.
September 10, 2011
ladiesmakingcomics:
wondirtywoman:
Keep FaithTrust to...
Keep Faith
Trust to Love
Fight with Honor
but Fight to Win
— Gail Simone (Wonder Woman)
Tattoo by Deb Brody
WOW. I gotta respect the dedication it must have taken to get this. And such a great line from Gail's run!
Wow…I was so shocked that I forgot to say that it LOOKS AMAZING.
I am delighted that oath means that much to you.
Sr.Ghost: gailsimone: APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To...
APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To See Back In The DCU
Yikes. That made me miss some characters bad. Quite a few of them haven't been used much for a good while, but some I still think of as active and vital.
I don't really have many answers about the suggestions people made. I know who is coming up in my books and a couple others, and I know some…
It's not haranguing at all, honestly, please don't give it a second thought.
Okay, I am probably not the best person to speak to this, because the comic that absolutely HOOKED me on comics as a kid broke every single rule about what is supposedly 'accessible' for new readers. It was a JLA comic, and it had not one, not two, but THREE superteams in it, across multiple Earths and timelines, (The JLA, JSA, and Seven Soldiers of Victory. I got it used years after it came out and didn't understand how to get the rest of the story—I searched fruitlessly for it at the drugstore for months!).
It was everything a new reader friendly book is not supposed to be. It didn't even explain who the characters were. And there were two Robins? What? It just baffled me. You could not intentionally make a comic that was more deliberately alienating to new readers.
And I LOVED it. That made me a DC fan forever, that book. I wanted to know who all those people were. When I do a crossover, I'm always hoping to capture a little bit of that, "who the hell ARE these cool people?" vibe.
So I have always been a bit skeptical that continuity makes books intimidating.
At the same time, I do HEAR it all the time, from readers and retailers both. That people are afraid to try X-men because there's eighty books and a million characters and they all have history, or the Green Lantern stuff, or Legion of Superheroes.
And I know sometimes even being in the industry, I don't always know where a decent jumping on point is. And it's been enough of a problem that we do know for a fact that people will avoid SOME titles if they feel that they can't possibly catch up.
Again, the idea here was to raise ALL boats. Crossovers rarely benefit individual titles in the long run.
There's no good answer to, "my favorite character isn't in the dcu." That sucks. But I find new characters and new versions of characters that I end up loving all the time. I didn't think I'd love Steph as much as I do because by the time she was Batgirl, I was on a ferocious Cass reading bender. There's gonna be some mistakes and bad calls, but the field is open enough that we can adjust and improve, as well.
Thank you for your post, it makes sense. I'm not trying to sell anyone, just trying to answer the questions frankly, albeit from a different pov.
wondirtywoman:
Keep FaithTrust to LoveFight with Honorbut Fight...
Keep Faith
Trust to Love
Fight with Honor
but Fight to Win
— Gail Simone (Wonder Woman)
Tattoo by Deb Brody
Holy GOD, is that real?
I have no idea what to say!
APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To See Back In The DCU
Thanks for the reply Gail, it's highly appreciated.
You make some fair points and, to be honest, they're not points I hadn't thought about. I know how these things work. I worked in the film industry for a bit before realizing that it was too mean-spirited for me. I know about demands, marketing concerns, and how a big company is a huge, complex animal that is a whole lot more than the sum of its parts, and all those parts move uniformly in very rare occasions.
The reboot makes sense on many levels, commercially speaking. My mind knows that and even if the individual writers are not all in it for the big bucks, you're dealing with a machine that is, as I said, much bigger than you.
But - and I know that you were a comic book fan before becoming a comic book writer so you'll understand this - there's a certain level of irrationality involved in being a part of such a huge and complex shared universe, even just as a fan. And when I say that I'm angry at DC, it IS the irrational part of me that is speaking. The part of me that cried when Ted Kord and Sue Dibny were murdered and that just won't accept that the universe I grew up with is changing because of marketing, demands, retailers and all that.
And no, I won't believe that the good writers at DC could not write any more good stories in the old continuity or even reivent certain aspects of the DCU to make it more appealing WITHOUT messing it up completely the way it's happening now. Even when something is not perfect, and the old DCU was definitely not, there are ways to make it better without erasing everything, the good and the bad.
On one thing I wholeheartedly agree with you. The "smaller" books will be a blast for long-time fans. Animal Man and Swamp Thing, as well as Stormwatch, were all exquisite. I have high hopes for JL Dark, the anthology series and a few others. Knowing that those books will be out every month gives me hope. But then I think that, along Buddy Baker being his awesome self, every single month will also bring an unmarried Clark Kent and the lack of my favorite superhero Oracle, among dozens of other things, and yes, I do get angry. Even if it's only the irrational part of me thinking that DC prefers two new readers off the street to me, but I do get angry.
Oh, sure. First, let me say that in my other post to you, I said, "we don't blame the readers" when a book fails…I meant WE at DC and Marvel. I've never heard anyone blaming the readers even when a good book fails. It may happen, but generally everyone's just too depressed to blame anyone in particular. I just realized upon rereading that my phrasing was awkward.
Okay, I honestly don't think it's 'irrational' to be upset about changes in things that bring you joy. I know what you are saying and it's very gracious, but we love what we love, and it's a drag to see that stuff screwed with, especially if you suspect that the people doing it don't care about it in the same way you do. I've felt this same thing many times. When you actually work at DC or Marvel, when you build something with great care, and someone else casually knocks it over, believe me, 'irrational' is the kindest word you can give to how it makes you feel. ;)
I don't think the question is whether or not good writers couldn't continue to write good stories pre-relaunch. I mean, Jeff Lemire, Scott Snyder, Bryan Q. Miller, those guys were killing it pre-relaunch, just off the top of my head. And I hate leaving books, I would happily write Oracle and Black Canary forever, and the Secret Six, and Ryan Choi, etc. etc.
But something did have to be done. And it needed to be something that got national attention, and it needed to be something that for once, raised ALL the boats, not just a few titles that were already selling okay anyway.
And that is happening, even the lowest selling 52 book is doing numbers that would have made it a big hit pre-relaunch, and the rest of the books are doing far better than that, and we haven't really quite hit the ceiling yet.
The upside for me is, I feel like we're at that point right after Crisis On Infinite Earths, where everything's not set in stone and you can build castles anywhere you like. That's a positive.
If, at the end of this, the comics retailers benefit and are better able to stay in business, and the digital model becomes a viable revenue stream, and some of the books that would have had no chance pre-relaunch end up thriving, those are all hugely positive things for the future of the medium. Hugely positive.
The downside is what you mentioned, that some stuff we love is changed or erased, at least temporarily.
I understand that you're angry, I get a little peeved at some of the people trying to talk people out of being angry. Being angry is fine, and being angry has already caused some positive directional shifts. I might mean 'passionate,' more than angry, come to think of it, but I do know they've made some changes based on things readers have come down solidly about, the perfect example being the girl dressed as Batgirl at San Diego.
The comics industry isn't really 'mean-spirited,' in the way you are saying the film industry is. That's not a big part of the culture, really, except for scattered jerks. When a great book is canceled, even when it's at a different company, we're all bummed. It's not something ANYONE takes any pleasure in. But eventually, if reader support isn't there in large enough numbers, well, then you get something like Secret Six or She-Hulk or Ant-man, books people care about deeply but don't have a big enough audience to continue.
I'm pretty excited about the quality of the books I've read. I haven't read all of them, but there were enough that were dead-on solid that I think it very likely that they will keep an audience far larger than would have been likely pre-relaunch. Quite a few sleepers, too. There are a couple that didn't speak to me at all, but books like All-Star Western, I,Vampire (seriously, WAY better than I expected), JLDark, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Batman, Frankenstein, Stormwatch, Men of War, bunch of others…I think they really did bring a new level of excitement. I'm sure it sounds like hype, but I really, really enjoyed all those books a great deal.
APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To See Back In The DCU
We think it's important to note something, when talking about the people DC are targeting.
While they regularly say they're reaching out to "new readers," there's a lot of evidence that that's not what they're really aiming for. Rather, it looks more and more like they're aiming for LAPSED readers, and a specific subset at that.
Think about it. Nearly every critical comment we've read regarding the relaunch notes how the books seem to be re-capturing the look and feel of the late 80s and early 90s, right down to the redesigned costumes. Even the books and casts themselves, while they're being touted as aimed at new readers, are clearly replicating that specific era—from a Barry Allen, to Rob Liefeld's Hawk and Dove.
Even Lemire's Animal Man, regarded so far as one of the best of the relaunch, is clearly meant to evoke Morrison's run from the late 80s Vertigo era, right down to breaking the fourth wall and talking with the writer.
And what about the confusion over Swamp Thing's origin? Whether he IS Alec Holland, or WAS Alec Holland, or THINKS he's Alec Holland? All of that stems from a fear of invalidating the 80s Alan Moore run, and losing readers who picked up comics during that time period.
Which is why when DC chooses to tout success stories, it's often "This reader is back buying comics after 20 years!" or "Just heard about a fan picking up books again after 15 years!" Because that's the market the current DC output is aimed towards—not really new readers, but not really loyalists at the same time. People who read a lot of books at a very specific point.
It makes sense from an economic standpoint to cater to those readers, at least. This hypothetical reader—let's call him "Him," because at the time he was thought to be overwhelmingly male—he came of age around 20 years ago, in 1991, and is now in his 40s, with a stable income, and enough money to spend on comic books. So it makes perfect sense for DC to play to that audience, since that audience is the one that can buy in bulk, especially at the 3- to 4-dollar mark.
Now, this is not to say EVERY book appeals EXCLUSIVELY to that market. Static Shock looks and feels like the cartoon, and the DCAU as a whole. So it's clearly appealing to younger readers, or teenagers who watched the cartoons when they were kids. But enough books ARE appealing the 90s lapsed reader to make that appeal apparent.
This is actually a really good point and a little bit complicated.
First, let me get this out…they ARE aiming and new readers. The intent and the result might be at variance, but some of the ad stuff and marketing stuff, starting next week, in fact, is aimed at people who have very likely never picked up a comic. I was very surprised.
The truth is, they were hoping for both, new readers and lapsed readers. Some of the marketing is aimed there already, but the ads are meant to have a dual purpose, to appeal to both groups. What they didn't want to do this time, unlike the vast majority of comics advertising, is fight for market share. Moving the percent of market share ten points one way or the other is a relatively minor effect.
However, I think you make a valid point that what we're hearing about mostly is lapsed readers returning. I've talked to a ton of stores that have gotten new readers, but nearly EVERY store I've talked to has said that they're getting readers back that have been gone for as long as fifteen years. That's really significant.
I guess we'll see how it all shakes out, but it's a valid point.
The criticism about 80's and 90's effect, I don't know, most of the books I've really enjoyed had a very modern approach, even if they had some trappings of past successes.
I do think, and Marvel's doing the same thing, that there's an attempt to tie in the comics to some of the incredibly successful game, tv and movie versions, which makes pretty good sense to me. If being a bit more like the cartoon helps Static gain an audience, I am happy with that, because I know that's what Dwayne McDuffie hoped to happen—it was something he pushed for for a long time when the show was on the air. And I wouldn't mind the people who love Arkham Asylum or Arkham City checking out Scott Snyder's Batman (although I admit, some of the costume things have been a bit weird).
It may be that they are shooting for new and lapsed customers but mainly getting lapsed customers back, I don't know if we'll have a full answer for that for a little while. I can ask around with retailers and find out.
APE IN A CAPE: That List of Five Characters People Want To See Back In The DCU
Yikes. That made me miss some characters bad. Quite a few of them haven't been used much for a good while, but some I still think of as active and vital.
I don't really have many answers about the suggestions people made. I know who is coming up in my books and a couple others, and I know some…
The five I'd like to see back are:
Blue Devil
Connor Hawke
Steph Brown
Cassie Cain
And…
Ambush Bug. Ambush Bug would be one of those characters who would remember his life (and everyone else's) before the reboot. 'Cause, he breaks the fourth wall all over the place.
I love your whole list. I think someone already said Blue Devil may return, didn't they? I'm not sure, I thought I'd heard that. Now I'm not positive.
Oh, crap, I forgot Amethyst. I would kill to bring Amy back.
As for Ambush Bug, Keith Giffen says he doesn't want to do any more Ambush Bug stories and I think most of the rest of us think of him as Keith's baby. I got to write him a little bit in our Secret Six/Doom Patrol crossover. It was an absolute blast, but also nerve-wracking, to write the Bug for Keith to draw. He said he felt the same way about writing Ragdoll in the same book. Such fun. Sigh.
That metaphor just went somewhere terrible...: Commentary on another person's review of Batgirl #1 (To be reviewed later)
There are a vocal group of fans out there who firmly believe that Babs should stay wheelchair bound forever so that she can 'remain an inspiration to wheelchair users everywhere' yet, in a world where Batman recovers from his back being broken and the second Robin can rise from the grave, does…
Yeah. I don't think people who wanted Oracle to stay in the chair were guilty of 'positive discrimination.' For the most part, they either simply preferred Barbara as Oracle, they liked that version of the character best. Or, they simply felt that Oracle was a meaningful and rare representation of a person with a disability that was powerful and inspiring.
Anyway, that was a well-written response, thank you.
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