Adam Graham's Blog: Christians and Superheroes - Posts Tagged "dawn-of-justice"
Dawn of Justice: Disaster Movie or Disaster of a Movie
Well, lest I leave my series responding to Spec Faith's praise for The Man of the Steel, I want to respond to Austin Gunderson's exultant praise of Superman v. Batman: Dawn of Justice, a film that hasn't been released yet. (See my first part here.)
It's tough for me to work up much enthusiasm or dread over a movie that hasn't been released. I can only offer some impressions which can only be very different.
First, Gunderson and I fundamentally disagree on what makes a good superhero movie. For him, Man of Steel does it right in the way no other film can:
Reading his description makes me wonder why I actually liked Man of Steel when first released because it sounds utterly dreary.
The idea that he expresses suggests that there is a need in these movies to have these sort of "real life" discussions of superheroes:
You know what we don't have in the real world? Crashed alien spaceships with holograms of Russell Crowe, superpowered alien armies invading, and yeah, Superman. Gunderson prefers a superhero world where all of these deep serious things have to be dealt with. And I'm not saying they can't be. In fact introducing some real life elements into the story could be interesting, but it can be overwhelming to the actual thrust and point of superhero stories.
And there are other speculative stories that can be told that explore many of these themes quite well without the baggage using major superheroes like Superman and Batman brings. If you want to talk about war, think about Ender's Game or Starship Troopers. With superheroes, you can only press "real life" so far until it becomes an absurdity that misses the point of why people want to read or watch these heroes anyway.
Imagine doing a gritty realistic remake of Duck Tales and trying to raise the implication: 1) of the long term harm done to water fowl swimming through money, 2) whether ducks running around bottomless should lead to prosecution for indecent exposure and whether Scrooge should be charged with child endangerment for letting his nephews run around without trousers or shorts (Note: My wife suggests this would be the least of child endangerment charges against Scrooge), and 3) whether Scrooge was undercutting Huey, Dewey, and Louie's academic future by taking them on adventures rather than being sure that they were in school five days a week during the school year., 4) whether the FAA did its due diligence in giving Launchpad MacQuack a pilot's license and whether we need to increase testing in order to avoid such tragedies from happening again, 5) whether Scrooge's use of Gyro Gearloose is causing innocent ducks to suffer from not having full access to Gyro's brilliant inventions, 6) Whether Scrooge is responsible for the Beagle Boy's bad behavior and continual recidivism by keeping trillions of dollars in a bin rather than diversifying his liquid assets into the nation's banks, and 7) whether Scrooge's actions of keeping money in money bin harms the whole economy.
These are all important issues that you would have to debate if Duck Tales were in real life but there's one thing that makes this "realism" absurd. We don't have trillionaire ducks running around with truant nephews who don't wear trousers.
In fact, it's fair to say that when it comes to Comics the Big 2 have generally taken the approach Gunderson argues for in selling comics and the result has been a continual decline in comic book sales as the people who publish the books have little understanding of the people who would actually buy them so we end up with copious amounts of stories about consequences, whole issues consumed by people talking about these sort of problems while ignoring the fun and action that got people reading in the first place.
My approach to superhero media is different. I believe that superhero movies ideally should be fun, while also communicating a moral message through the life and actions of the heroes and the story itself. This can be seen through the Marvel movies and their moral center. Captain America's exemplifying courage or Thor learning humility are far more to me than having a "realistic moral universe" that deals with moral issues that will never touch the real life we actually inhabit and live in as opposed to a fantastic moral universe which has some very weird quirks but exemplifies morals and virtues that actually govern people's everyday lives.
I love the concept of Batman and Superman together. When I was eight years old, I wrote my first short story and it was about them coming together. But how does this movie look to me from all its publicity? Let me offer some half-baked speculation based on leaks and trailers:
1) It looks too dark: From a distance, when I first saw Wonder Woman's costume, it's coloring reminded me of Xena, Warrior Princess' black costume. The film looks about as fun or enjoyable as a long boring lecture full of speeches. I'd hoped that after such a dark beginning, we might have a reverse Empire Strikes Back where we might actually allow Superman some fun, some joyfulness. Nope, no such luck. It's going to be a dreary two to two and a half hours that's going to be a chore to get through (except for Gunderson and those who enjoy the brand of superhero film he prefers.)
2) It's trying to cut corners: The first ever cinematic pairing of Superman and Batman. That's really not enough for this movie to do. We also have to have Wonder Woman thrown in to the mix. The addition of Wonder Woman really screamed at me, "We've fallen so far behind Marvel and we have to catch up our cinematic universe and we're going to do it all in one movie!" Such haste makes waste in a cinematic. We've seen Joss Whedon do such a competent job in the Avengers movies with so many different characters that we forget how many disastrous comic book films have been hurt by including unnecessary characters they didn't have time to develop. Think of The Green Goblin in Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Venom in Spider-man 3. Even The Dark Knight Rises had Cat Woman wandering off for much of the film. The one film that really did make this work well was The Dark Knight where Joker was actually the cause of Two Face rather than the two being Independent.
As the Batman films of the 1990s proved, more villains and plot elements don't make for a better film. For example, Batman Returns managed to really showcase Catwoman and the Penguin by keeping Batman off stage for 80% of the movie.
Add to that the fact that DC is going to try and do the work they should do in two or three movies in one and I really don't think this will end well.
3) Batman Will Take Over:
Given DC's general bias towards Batman, I expect to this to be a Batman dominated film for both commercial and creative reasons. Superman will be in it but if Batman hasn't received more screen time and an overall more positive arc by the end of the movie, I'll be surprised.
Of course, I could be wrong, so could Gunderson. We don't really know and there's a certain folly in this. Still, I felt compelled to finish responding to this series.
As it stands now, Dawn of Justice will be premiering against Captain America: Civil War which is based on an utterly depressing storyline from Marvel. Still, at this point, I'd go to Civil War and wait to see Dawn of Justice until it hit the second run theaters and I have a day I'm in a mood to watch an even more dreary film.
It's tough for me to work up much enthusiasm or dread over a movie that hasn't been released. I can only offer some impressions which can only be very different.
First, Gunderson and I fundamentally disagree on what makes a good superhero movie. For him, Man of Steel does it right in the way no other film can:
But Man of Steel doesn’t break for comedic relief. It’s not interested in cushioning the blow of collapsing skyscrapers, or in using the imagery of destruction as an exciting backdrop for feel-good fun. When the towers fall in Metropolis, we’re reminded of September 11th, not Independence Day. And we don’t like that. This is supposed to be a superhero movie, dang it, not a serious movie! I came here to relax, not to grapple with the personal implications of Just War Theory!
Reading his description makes me wonder why I actually liked Man of Steel when first released because it sounds utterly dreary.
The idea that he expresses suggests that there is a need in these movies to have these sort of "real life" discussions of superheroes:
In the real world, people don’t extend you trust just because you claim the symbol on your chest means “hope.” In the real world, we instinctively distrust those who wield unfettered power — whether they be generals or politicians or the ever-nebulous Rich, no matter what their stated purpose. In the real world, someone’s ability to watch over you doesn’t automatically elicit goodwill. If it did, everyone would love the NSA.
You know what we don't have in the real world? Crashed alien spaceships with holograms of Russell Crowe, superpowered alien armies invading, and yeah, Superman. Gunderson prefers a superhero world where all of these deep serious things have to be dealt with. And I'm not saying they can't be. In fact introducing some real life elements into the story could be interesting, but it can be overwhelming to the actual thrust and point of superhero stories.
And there are other speculative stories that can be told that explore many of these themes quite well without the baggage using major superheroes like Superman and Batman brings. If you want to talk about war, think about Ender's Game or Starship Troopers. With superheroes, you can only press "real life" so far until it becomes an absurdity that misses the point of why people want to read or watch these heroes anyway.
Imagine doing a gritty realistic remake of Duck Tales and trying to raise the implication: 1) of the long term harm done to water fowl swimming through money, 2) whether ducks running around bottomless should lead to prosecution for indecent exposure and whether Scrooge should be charged with child endangerment for letting his nephews run around without trousers or shorts (Note: My wife suggests this would be the least of child endangerment charges against Scrooge), and 3) whether Scrooge was undercutting Huey, Dewey, and Louie's academic future by taking them on adventures rather than being sure that they were in school five days a week during the school year., 4) whether the FAA did its due diligence in giving Launchpad MacQuack a pilot's license and whether we need to increase testing in order to avoid such tragedies from happening again, 5) whether Scrooge's use of Gyro Gearloose is causing innocent ducks to suffer from not having full access to Gyro's brilliant inventions, 6) Whether Scrooge is responsible for the Beagle Boy's bad behavior and continual recidivism by keeping trillions of dollars in a bin rather than diversifying his liquid assets into the nation's banks, and 7) whether Scrooge's actions of keeping money in money bin harms the whole economy.
These are all important issues that you would have to debate if Duck Tales were in real life but there's one thing that makes this "realism" absurd. We don't have trillionaire ducks running around with truant nephews who don't wear trousers.
In fact, it's fair to say that when it comes to Comics the Big 2 have generally taken the approach Gunderson argues for in selling comics and the result has been a continual decline in comic book sales as the people who publish the books have little understanding of the people who would actually buy them so we end up with copious amounts of stories about consequences, whole issues consumed by people talking about these sort of problems while ignoring the fun and action that got people reading in the first place.
My approach to superhero media is different. I believe that superhero movies ideally should be fun, while also communicating a moral message through the life and actions of the heroes and the story itself. This can be seen through the Marvel movies and their moral center. Captain America's exemplifying courage or Thor learning humility are far more to me than having a "realistic moral universe" that deals with moral issues that will never touch the real life we actually inhabit and live in as opposed to a fantastic moral universe which has some very weird quirks but exemplifies morals and virtues that actually govern people's everyday lives.
I love the concept of Batman and Superman together. When I was eight years old, I wrote my first short story and it was about them coming together. But how does this movie look to me from all its publicity? Let me offer some half-baked speculation based on leaks and trailers:
1) It looks too dark: From a distance, when I first saw Wonder Woman's costume, it's coloring reminded me of Xena, Warrior Princess' black costume. The film looks about as fun or enjoyable as a long boring lecture full of speeches. I'd hoped that after such a dark beginning, we might have a reverse Empire Strikes Back where we might actually allow Superman some fun, some joyfulness. Nope, no such luck. It's going to be a dreary two to two and a half hours that's going to be a chore to get through (except for Gunderson and those who enjoy the brand of superhero film he prefers.)
2) It's trying to cut corners: The first ever cinematic pairing of Superman and Batman. That's really not enough for this movie to do. We also have to have Wonder Woman thrown in to the mix. The addition of Wonder Woman really screamed at me, "We've fallen so far behind Marvel and we have to catch up our cinematic universe and we're going to do it all in one movie!" Such haste makes waste in a cinematic. We've seen Joss Whedon do such a competent job in the Avengers movies with so many different characters that we forget how many disastrous comic book films have been hurt by including unnecessary characters they didn't have time to develop. Think of The Green Goblin in Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Venom in Spider-man 3. Even The Dark Knight Rises had Cat Woman wandering off for much of the film. The one film that really did make this work well was The Dark Knight where Joker was actually the cause of Two Face rather than the two being Independent.
As the Batman films of the 1990s proved, more villains and plot elements don't make for a better film. For example, Batman Returns managed to really showcase Catwoman and the Penguin by keeping Batman off stage for 80% of the movie.
Add to that the fact that DC is going to try and do the work they should do in two or three movies in one and I really don't think this will end well.
3) Batman Will Take Over:
Given DC's general bias towards Batman, I expect to this to be a Batman dominated film for both commercial and creative reasons. Superman will be in it but if Batman hasn't received more screen time and an overall more positive arc by the end of the movie, I'll be surprised.
Of course, I could be wrong, so could Gunderson. We don't really know and there's a certain folly in this. Still, I felt compelled to finish responding to this series.
As it stands now, Dawn of Justice will be premiering against Captain America: Civil War which is based on an utterly depressing storyline from Marvel. Still, at this point, I'd go to Civil War and wait to see Dawn of Justice until it hit the second run theaters and I have a day I'm in a mood to watch an even more dreary film.
Published on August 09, 2015 14:11
•
Tags:
batman, dawn-of-justice, superman
Superman/Batman: Dawn of Justice Thoughts
***Spoilers Ahead***
Positives:
---The film takes a look at the question of theodicy (the problem of evil) and the answer has some great parallels and a powet rful reflection of the gospel message.
---I have to admit that I enjoyed the scene of Bruce Wayne reacting to the destruction of Metropolis during the War with Zod. It really did humanize him and at least show where the seed of his mad actions in this movie came from. I really thought Afleck did a good job with the material presented to him.
---The scenes with Wonder Woman were very good. She was scene stealing and refreshing and I couldn't help but wish I was watching a movie featuring her which is the problem when you have great character in a movie with characters who have been annoying out of character. It makes you long for something better and then you realize the same creative team would have influence over the project. (Ooh, I guess I should officially shift to the negatives.)
Negatives:
---Lex Luthor. Did Jesse Eisenberg really want to play the Joker in Suicide Squad and just decide to give the same performance. Here we have the cool calculating genius of Lex Luthor reduced to a hyperactive psychopathic twit. This was a painful performance to watch. Simply awful.
---Martha. Really? That changes the whole movie. Batman turns on a dime.
---Amy Adams was good in Man of Steel. In this film, I don't think she was given material worthy of her.
---That whole fight between Clark Kent and Perry White over covering Batman didn't really go anywhere.
---When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. There are certain storytelling techniques that can be great if used sparingly and intelligently. In Batman/Superman, they have too many dramatic clip mixes over things that aren't really dramatic, conversations with dead relatives, dream sequences, etc. The film uses these too much, greatly lessening their impact.
---The pacing is horrible. There are some good parts but you have to sit through so much unnecessary and dull dreck to get to it. It's not until the final half hour that we see Wonder Woman or Superman the seminal battle.
Overall, this film was bad It was tedious, overwritten, and a chore to watch. I will need some very solid reviews before I'd consider watching another installment in this series.
Rating: 3.5/10
Positives:
---The film takes a look at the question of theodicy (the problem of evil) and the answer has some great parallels and a powet rful reflection of the gospel message.
---I have to admit that I enjoyed the scene of Bruce Wayne reacting to the destruction of Metropolis during the War with Zod. It really did humanize him and at least show where the seed of his mad actions in this movie came from. I really thought Afleck did a good job with the material presented to him.
---The scenes with Wonder Woman were very good. She was scene stealing and refreshing and I couldn't help but wish I was watching a movie featuring her which is the problem when you have great character in a movie with characters who have been annoying out of character. It makes you long for something better and then you realize the same creative team would have influence over the project. (Ooh, I guess I should officially shift to the negatives.)
Negatives:
---Lex Luthor. Did Jesse Eisenberg really want to play the Joker in Suicide Squad and just decide to give the same performance. Here we have the cool calculating genius of Lex Luthor reduced to a hyperactive psychopathic twit. This was a painful performance to watch. Simply awful.
---Martha. Really? That changes the whole movie. Batman turns on a dime.
---Amy Adams was good in Man of Steel. In this film, I don't think she was given material worthy of her.
---That whole fight between Clark Kent and Perry White over covering Batman didn't really go anywhere.
---When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. There are certain storytelling techniques that can be great if used sparingly and intelligently. In Batman/Superman, they have too many dramatic clip mixes over things that aren't really dramatic, conversations with dead relatives, dream sequences, etc. The film uses these too much, greatly lessening their impact.
---The pacing is horrible. There are some good parts but you have to sit through so much unnecessary and dull dreck to get to it. It's not until the final half hour that we see Wonder Woman or Superman the seminal battle.
Overall, this film was bad It was tedious, overwritten, and a chore to watch. I will need some very solid reviews before I'd consider watching another installment in this series.
Rating: 3.5/10
Published on May 30, 2016 21:47
•
Tags:
batman, dawn-of-justice, superman
Christians and Superheroes
I'm a Christian who writes superhero fiction (some parody and some serious.)
On this blog, we'll take a look at:
1) Superhero stories
2) Issues of faith in relation to Superhero stories
3) Writing Superhe I'm a Christian who writes superhero fiction (some parody and some serious.)
On this blog, we'll take a look at:
1) Superhero stories
2) Issues of faith in relation to Superhero stories
3) Writing Superhero Fiction and my current progress. ...more
On this blog, we'll take a look at:
1) Superhero stories
2) Issues of faith in relation to Superhero stories
3) Writing Superhe I'm a Christian who writes superhero fiction (some parody and some serious.)
On this blog, we'll take a look at:
1) Superhero stories
2) Issues of faith in relation to Superhero stories
3) Writing Superhero Fiction and my current progress. ...more
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