Marc Tyler Nobleman's Blog, page 16
November 24, 2020
Thank you again, Maryland State Arts Council
In times of strife, we turn to art. For the second time during the pandemic, my work has been supported by the Maryland State Arts Council. Thank you, MSAC!
Learn how the Maryland State Arts Council positively impacts Maryland and the arts in general.
Learn how the Maryland State Arts Council positively impacts Maryland and the arts in general.
November 22, 2020
"10 Real Life Heroes Who Helped Bill Finger Get Credit" (Screen Rant)
On Screen Rant, Tim Davis has posted a list of people who helped Batman co-creator Bill Finger receive official credit in 2015 (41 years after Bill died and 76 years after Batman debuted).
Tim does not indicate if the list is ranked; here it is in the order it appears:
11. (honorable mention) Bob Kane; mention is fine, honorable doesn't track10. the one I live with (see below) 9. Jerry Bails 8. Michael Uslan 7. Jerry Robinson/Carmine Infantino 6. Lyn Simmons 5. Charles Sinclair 4. Travis Langley 3. Alethia Mariotta 2. Fred Finger 1. Athena Finger
Tim does not indicate if the list is ranked; here it is in the order it appears:
11. (honorable mention) Bob Kane; mention is fine, honorable doesn't track10. the one I live with (see below) 9. Jerry Bails 8. Michael Uslan 7. Jerry Robinson/Carmine Infantino 6. Lyn Simmons 5. Charles Sinclair 4. Travis Langley 3. Alethia Mariotta 2. Fred Finger 1. Athena Finger
November 18, 2020
Bob Dole Institute of Politics interview about "Thirty Minutes Over Oregon"
Audrey Coleman, the museum director of the Bob Dole Institute of Politics at the University of Kansas, kindly interviewed me about Thirty Minutes Over Oregon: A Japanese Pilot's World War II Story (on Veterans Day, no less).
The institute promotes public service, civil discourse, and bipartisanship inspired by the legacy of Senator Bob Dole.
Audrey: "Both WWII history and your book's central question about courage, fighting, and unity are the foundation of our mission."
Thank you again, Audrey!
The institute promotes public service, civil discourse, and bipartisanship inspired by the legacy of Senator Bob Dole.
Audrey: "Both WWII history and your book's central question about courage, fighting, and unity are the foundation of our mission."
Thank you again, Audrey!
October 31, 2020
First official credit for various DC Comics superheroes
Superman debuted in 1938. Batman in 1939. Wonder Woman in 1941. And starting with each of their first appearances, writer/artist creators were credited in-story. (But not always all the creators. Exhibit B. Exhibit WW.)
With respect to creator credit, what ended up being the DC trinity ended up being exceptions rather than rules. The majority of DC superhero characters who debuted in the Golden Age (1938-1956) and Silver Age (1956-1970) of Comic Books did not receive a “created by” credit from the get-go.
Once you get into the Bronze Age (1970-1984), mileage began to vary. Some characters (Black Lightning, Booster Gold) were explicitly credited while others (Mister Miracle, Swamp Thing) weren’t. By “explicit,” I mean some variation of the words “created by” were used. The creators of Mister Miracle and Swamp Thing were credited as writers and artists, but not identified as creators.
I’m referring in particular to characters who headlined their own title as opposed to characters who first appeared as part of a team (Power Girl, Katana) or as a supporting character (Vixen, Lobo). Those characters typically would not receive a creator credit till they got their own series or mini-series, and sometimes not even then (Red Tornado, Elongated Man).
Sometimes a creator credit appeared once, or for one mini-series, then not again for a while. There is also an inconsistency—though the logic is surely delineated in a contract unseen by the public—to when regularly credited characters get credited outside their own books. In some group titles or crossovers, the creators of certain characters are present and accounted for, but in other instances, creator names are as visible as Clark Kent when Superman is on the premises.
A handful of A-list characters still do not have creator credits:
Robin (Dick Grayson)Flash (Barry Allen)Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)Green ArrowBlack CanarySupergirlBatgirl
Below is a roundup of first known creator credits for many of the rest of DC’s most popular characters. Farther below are comic book pages (and their corresponding covers) doing the honors of announcing the creators themselves.
Winner of the longest spell from creation to credit: Aquaman! (Actually, he’s the runner-up to Batman. Writer Bill Finger co-created Batman in 1939 and was not credited till 2015—76 years later. And when artist H.G. Peter, Elizabeth Holloway Marston, and Olive Byrne are finally credited for Wonder Woman, she will take the top spot.)
The credits in their natural habitat:
Dr. Fate debuted 1940, credited 1978
Aquaman debuted 1941, credited 2003
Martian Manhunter debuted 1955, credited 1988
Atom debuted 1961, Hawkman debuted 1964,both credited 2010
(Atom’s inaugural credit appearedin two titles the same month)
Zatanna debuted 1964, credited 1987
Metamorpho debuted 1965, credited 1986
Plastic Man debuted 1966 (DC), credited 1980
Deadman debuted 1967, credited 1989
Swamp Thing debuted 1971, credited 1982
Shazam debuted 1973 (DC), credited 2019
Firestorm debuted 1978, credited 1978
Nightwing debuted 2011, credited 2011
* The Dr. Fate creators are cheekily if obliquely referred to as “original archivists.”
** Only original Aquaman artist Paul Norris is credited. Original writer Mort Weisinger is not.
*** Oddly, in Martian Manhunter #4 (1988; the first series he headlined), the creator of his logo (Alex Ray) is credited, but not the creator of the character himself.
**** The 1987 one-shot was the first comic Zatanna headlined. In 2014, in Black Canary and Zatanna: Bloodspell, the Zatanna credit was amended to add Murphy Anderson.
***** Plastic Man debuted in Police Comics #1 (1941), then got his own title in 1943, both published by Quality Comics; in Plastic Man #1, the sole credit is “By Jack Cole.” Later, DC acquired the character. DC first published him in 1966, but without credit, which is why I start the credit countdown clock at that year.
****** In 1989, Deadman was credited to Arnold Drake and Carmine Infantino. The next time the credit appeared, in Wednesday Comics in 2009, it included only Drake. (At least five Deadman series or one-shots came out between 1989 and 2009; none gave credit.)
******* Nightwing’s secret identity Dick Grayson (and original superhero identity Robin) debuted in 1940.
Thank you on infinite earths to the immeasurable John Wells and Bob Hughes for taking the time to help me compile this information.
If any readers find any mistakes—or would like to suggest characters to add—please let me know in the comments.
With respect to creator credit, what ended up being the DC trinity ended up being exceptions rather than rules. The majority of DC superhero characters who debuted in the Golden Age (1938-1956) and Silver Age (1956-1970) of Comic Books did not receive a “created by” credit from the get-go.
Once you get into the Bronze Age (1970-1984), mileage began to vary. Some characters (Black Lightning, Booster Gold) were explicitly credited while others (Mister Miracle, Swamp Thing) weren’t. By “explicit,” I mean some variation of the words “created by” were used. The creators of Mister Miracle and Swamp Thing were credited as writers and artists, but not identified as creators.
I’m referring in particular to characters who headlined their own title as opposed to characters who first appeared as part of a team (Power Girl, Katana) or as a supporting character (Vixen, Lobo). Those characters typically would not receive a creator credit till they got their own series or mini-series, and sometimes not even then (Red Tornado, Elongated Man).
Sometimes a creator credit appeared once, or for one mini-series, then not again for a while. There is also an inconsistency—though the logic is surely delineated in a contract unseen by the public—to when regularly credited characters get credited outside their own books. In some group titles or crossovers, the creators of certain characters are present and accounted for, but in other instances, creator names are as visible as Clark Kent when Superman is on the premises.
A handful of A-list characters still do not have creator credits:
Robin (Dick Grayson)Flash (Barry Allen)Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)Green ArrowBlack CanarySupergirlBatgirl
Below is a roundup of first known creator credits for many of the rest of DC’s most popular characters. Farther below are comic book pages (and their corresponding covers) doing the honors of announcing the creators themselves.
Winner of the longest spell from creation to credit: Aquaman! (Actually, he’s the runner-up to Batman. Writer Bill Finger co-created Batman in 1939 and was not credited till 2015—76 years later. And when artist H.G. Peter, Elizabeth Holloway Marston, and Olive Byrne are finally credited for Wonder Woman, she will take the top spot.)
The credits in their natural habitat:
Dr. Fate debuted 1940, credited 1978
Aquaman debuted 1941, credited 2003
Martian Manhunter debuted 1955, credited 1988
Atom debuted 1961, Hawkman debuted 1964,both credited 2010
(Atom’s inaugural credit appearedin two titles the same month)
Zatanna debuted 1964, credited 1987
Metamorpho debuted 1965, credited 1986
Plastic Man debuted 1966 (DC), credited 1980
Deadman debuted 1967, credited 1989
Swamp Thing debuted 1971, credited 1982
Shazam debuted 1973 (DC), credited 2019
Firestorm debuted 1978, credited 1978
Nightwing debuted 2011, credited 2011* The Dr. Fate creators are cheekily if obliquely referred to as “original archivists.”
** Only original Aquaman artist Paul Norris is credited. Original writer Mort Weisinger is not.
*** Oddly, in Martian Manhunter #4 (1988; the first series he headlined), the creator of his logo (Alex Ray) is credited, but not the creator of the character himself.
**** The 1987 one-shot was the first comic Zatanna headlined. In 2014, in Black Canary and Zatanna: Bloodspell, the Zatanna credit was amended to add Murphy Anderson.
***** Plastic Man debuted in Police Comics #1 (1941), then got his own title in 1943, both published by Quality Comics; in Plastic Man #1, the sole credit is “By Jack Cole.” Later, DC acquired the character. DC first published him in 1966, but without credit, which is why I start the credit countdown clock at that year.
****** In 1989, Deadman was credited to Arnold Drake and Carmine Infantino. The next time the credit appeared, in Wednesday Comics in 2009, it included only Drake. (At least five Deadman series or one-shots came out between 1989 and 2009; none gave credit.)
******* Nightwing’s secret identity Dick Grayson (and original superhero identity Robin) debuted in 1940.
Thank you on infinite earths to the immeasurable John Wells and Bob Hughes for taking the time to help me compile this information.
If any readers find any mistakes—or would like to suggest characters to add—please let me know in the comments.
October 30, 2020
Interview: Laura Wardle (stand-in for Sarah Jessica Parker/Dianne Wiest in “Footloose”)
What were you doing professionally prior to Footloose?
I was working on an MFA in Acting at Brigham Young University. All of my experience prior to Footloose was in student films and in university and community stage productions.
How did you become involved with Footloose?
I auditioned for Cate Praggastis, the local casting agent for the film. I did not get cast, but Ric Waite, the cinematographer, saw my audition and hired me as a stand-in for Sarah Jessica Parker and Dianne Wiest.
Is there one story about your Footloose time you tell more than any other?
I was sitting in a booth at the Hi-Spot with Kevin and Sarah Jessica. It was a late-night shoot and everyone was getting a little silly and tired. Kevin and Sarah Jessica started carefully examining my nose. They both decided that I had a perfect nose and they wished they had my nose. I don’t see it personally, but it’s nice to remember that once upon a time two famous movie stars thought I had a nice nose.
Sarah Jessica Parker and Liz GorceyWhile working on it, did it seem like just another script to you, or did it feel like something special?
I have always been a film buff so even before we started filming I was impressed by the crew that was assembled for Footloose. When I wasn’t needed on set, I would hang out with the camera crew (Ric Waite was already known for his great work with long lenses) or, if nobody was in the make-up trailer, I would ask Daniel Striepeke to tell me about his make-up work on Planet of the Apes and the Mission: Impossible television series. I was also very impressed with the work that Kevin Bacon had done in Diner so I was in awe of everybody and more than a little nervous around all of them.
cinematographer Ric WaiteWhat do you remember about your impression of Kevin Bacon?
Kevin was always very professional but friendly and full of energy. I must have made an offhanded comment that Kevin looked good without a shirt. One day, Robbie Robinson, the film’s still photographer, had a shirtless Kevin Bacon come up and wrap his arms around me while Robbie took photos. I look like such a dork in the picture but it’s a great memory.
Chris Penn and Kevin BaconChris Penn?
Chris was a sweetheart. He was so nervous about his dancing. He practiced constantly. I was very sad when he passed away at such a young age.
Lori Singer?
Lori did a kindness for me that I will never forget. The stand-ins were paid in cash in the morning for our previous day’s work. I was in college and the money was very important to me. The stand-ins shared a small dressing room in a honey wagon. It was never locked but we had to leave our personal belongings in there while we were on set.
One day they paid us for three or four previous days, and someone went into my purse while I was on set and stole all my money. Rent was due—my husband Tom and I were both students paying our own way through school—and I just burst into tears when I discovered the theft.
A little while later Lori came up to me with a wad of cash in her hand and said something like “I never spend all my per diem. I want you to have it.” I think I said “no” but she stuffed it in my hand and walked away. It was completely unexpected and such a kind gesture from a leading actress to a member of the crew.
Lori Singer (in sweatshirt given at end of production) and her stand-in HeatherJohn Lithgow?
He was very quiet, but he would often sit next to me at lunch or dinner and he always asked questions about my life. He was a true gentleman during the entire shoot.
Dianne Wiest?
The job of a stand-in is to watch the actors rehearse so that you can reproduce their blocking for the cinematographer and camera crew after the actors are released. I loved watching Dianne rehearse. She is such an amazing actress. Observing her was a great learning opportunity for me. Dianne also loved her dog. He came to the set every day and stayed in her dressing room.
Sarah Jessica Parker?
I probably spent more time with Sarah than anyone else in the cast. She was funny and extremely intelligent. She also did something very kind for me. She knew that after graduation that I was headed to Los Angeles to pursue acting. She somehow convinced Herbert Ross to put me in a few scenes so that I could get my SAG card. Being a member of the union makes a big difference when you are starting out and trying to get an agent. She didn’t have to do that for me and I have always appreciated it.
Sarah Jessica ParkerWhat did you do after Footloose?
I had a career of small and insignificant parts in film and television in the late 1980s and early 1990s. In 1994 I had the opportunity to work for Jack Valenti at the Motion Picture Association of America where I served on the Ratings Board—the 12-person panel that applies the ratings to more than 600 films per year. [When] our family moved to the East Coast in 1998, I did not have any association with the film industry for many years.
Since moving back to Utah a few years ago, I have started acting again. I do mostly voice over work for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I have [also] appeared in several commercials and film projects. My favorite is a little spot called “Going to Grandma’s,” which I had the pleasure of doing with my daughter and granddaughter.
Where do you live?
Midway, Utah.
If you have children, how many and ages?
We have two children and five grandchildren.
When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?
Sarah Jessica Parker and I kept in touch via letter for a year or so after the film shoot. The last time I saw her was in Los Angeles at the party for the premiere of Franco Zeffirelli’s Hamlet (Mel Gibson, Glenn Close; 1990). She was with Robert Downey Jr. at the time and we just exchanged a quick hello. Kim Jensen and I have remained friends and I see her several times a year.
When was the last time you watched Footloose? How did you think it held up?
If I’m ever channel-surfing and I come across it I will stop and watch it for a bit. It’s always an odd feeling to be transported back to the summer of 1983 and have so many memories about filming each scene, but there is little to no evidence of me in the film.
Laura is in the lavender dressDo you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?
I have a number of photos. I think I wore my cast and crew Footloose sweatshirt and socks until I wore them out. They are long since gone.
How do you look back on your Footloose experience?
Footloose was a fabulous experience for me. I was initially very disappointed that I was not cast, but working every day as a stand-in for a major motion picture taught me more about acting for film than anything I learned in college.
Kevin Bacon and his stand-in Blair TreuIf the experience changed your life in any way, how?
Not long after arriving in Los Angeles, Bob Stone (First Assistant Director for Footloose) cast me in a national Ford truck commercial that he was directing, which then led to a McDonald’s commercial for me. Without Footloose I would never have gotten either.
October 29, 2020
New "Lieography" book series by Alan Katz...and how his author friends react
Alan Katz is one of the nicest authors who will ever show up at your door unannounced. But he caught some fellow authors at a bad time...
Despite my behavior captured on video, I had a blast being a part of this. That's no lie.
Speaking of which, best of luck with the Lieography series, Alan!
Despite my behavior captured on video, I had a blast being a part of this. That's no lie.
Speaking of which, best of luck with the Lieography series, Alan!
October 8, 2020
Tropes in "The Chupacabra Ate the Candelabra"
At one point or another, most writers researching, exploring the possibilities of their craft, or simply procrastinating end up on a site about narrative tropes, such as TV Tropes.
I take it as a badge of honor that The Chupacabra Ate the Candelabra now has an entry. (My bar for badges of honor is not necessarily rigorous.)
There are so many tropes in storytelling and I didn't consciously employ any of the ones named at that link—doubtful I could have even named any of the ones at that link—except for "Shout-Out." I love "Balloon Belly" and "Big Shadow, Little Creature."
I find it curious that "Dedication" is classified here as a trope. Does this site also consider other standard elements of books (table of contents, index, flap copy) tropes?
I take it as a badge of honor that The Chupacabra Ate the Candelabra now has an entry. (My bar for badges of honor is not necessarily rigorous.)
There are so many tropes in storytelling and I didn't consciously employ any of the ones named at that link—doubtful I could have even named any of the ones at that link—except for "Shout-Out." I love "Balloon Belly" and "Big Shadow, Little Creature."
I find it curious that "Dedication" is classified here as a trope. Does this site also consider other standard elements of books (table of contents, index, flap copy) tropes?
September 21, 2020
"Batman & Bill" aired in France
Vive la Finger!
The latest country I am aware of to show Batman & Bill is France, where apparently I am known as Marc Tyler. When I took French in high school, I went by Jean-Marc. Or maybe not. It's been quelque temps.
The latest country I am aware of to show Batman & Bill is France, where apparently I am known as Marc Tyler. When I took French in high school, I went by Jean-Marc. Or maybe not. It's been quelque temps.
September 12, 2020
Interview: Kim Jensen (Ariel’s friend Edna in “Footloose”)
In Footloose (1984), Kim Jensen (now Abunuwara) played Edna, friend to Lori Singer’s character Ariel Moore.
Kim’s behind-the-scenes recollections of the experience:
What were you doing professionally prior to Footloose?
I was an undergraduate acting student at Brigham Young University. Not much professional at this time.
How did you get the role?
There was a huge cattle call. Then another trimmed down [call]. Finally, five of us [were] called back to read for [director] Herbert Ross in a hotel room in Salt Lake City. I think I was cast because I was blond and not rail thin (as he already had Lori and Sarah who were brunette and rail thin), and I’m a decent actor.
Is there one story about your Footloose time you tell more than any other?
Because it strokes my ego: When rehearsing the scene where Lori climbs out of my [moving] car into her boyfriend’s [moving] truck, Herbert rode in the back of a camera truck and held up a pencil for us to look at as a focus point for our reactions when we were to pretend to see the approaching rig. After we did it the first time, Ross said something like “it’s too much” or “you’re overdoing it, I’m only getting anything real from Kim.” I was incredibly proud of this because it isn’t easy to look at a pencil and act like it’s an approaching rig.
While working on it, did it seem like just another script to you, or did it feel like something special?
I wasn’t sure that the script was special. But I knew the people involved were special:
Wiest, Lithgow, Bacon, Ross. I felt, because of them, the movie could be special.
Kim with Laura Wardle What do you remember about your impression of Kevin Bacon?
Incredibly professional, focused. Doing his job.
Chris Penn?
Not much interaction with Chris.
Lori Singer?
She may have been in a tough patch. She didn’t seem to be on her game. One day someone brought a viola to the set (I think we were at the Osmond Studios that day because it was inside a large studio and we were very often outside on set) and she played for us in a pink robe and curlers and she was amazing! I thought, wow, she is a very gifted musician.
John Lithgow?
He really helped Lori to focus when shooting the scene when he finds her listening to music (bad) at the Hi Spot. When the cameras were reversed and they did Lori’s shot, he could’ve left and let an AD read, but he stayed and pointed at her and really gave her a lot to work with. Also, when they did his shot and he is supposed to be super disappointed in and betrayed by his daughter, the track was set in his path so as he walks away it would have to be over some very wide dolly tracks which would make him need to take unnaturally large steps. As John walked off, the shot was going to be on his face. I remember Herbert offering to reset the shot and John said no and just made it work; acting it perfectly while taking these enormously awkward steps over the dolly track. What a pro.
Dianne Wiest?
Just incredible. Just super professional. And wow, able to make so much out of material that is just “meh.”
Sarah Jessica Parker?
Incredibly confident and charming. She was the doll of the production. She was incredibly funny and entertaining. Witty. A people magnet.
Did you attend the premiere, and if so, what was that like?
We had a premiere in Utah that I attended. My boyfriend took the wrong exit and we were late and I could’ve murdered him.
How often were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that?
Never. I am no one.
Do you remember what you earned for the movie?
$16,000. It paid for graduate school and 3.5 months in Europe.
Do you still earn residuals?
Yes.
What are you doing these days?
I teach at UVU. Do voice work and the odd TV show that is shooting in SLC.
Any interest in acting more frequently?
Sure. The money is great when it works.
Where do you live?
Orem, Utah.
Children?
Ages 27, 25, 24, 20.
If they have seen you in Footloose, what do they think about it?
The love me a lot and are very proud of me.
Have you ever participated in a Footloose-related event (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)?
No, I haven't taken part in anything like that. I wouldn't want to.
When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?
I haven’t.
When was the last time you watched Footloose? How did you think it held up?
Can’t remember. Although last year they showed [Lori’s] climbing-out-of-my-car-into-her-boyfriend’s-truck scene in faculty senate at UVU while I was serving as a faculty senator. People think its special that I was in a movie.
Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?
I used to have a small oblong cardboard dashboard sign that said "Paramount" that I stole out of one of trucks. I wish I still had it.
Have you been interviewed before about this specifically, and if so, do you have those clippings (particularly from back then)?
Once. But I don’t know where the clipping went. It was a SLC paper.
What did you think when you first heard from me?
Happy to help.
How do you look back on your Footloose experience?
Positively.
If the experience changed your life in any way, how?
Well, it has always been an attention getter. It is a well-known film. It looked good on my résumé. It paid for school and a trip to Europe. Those things certainly changed my life.
Kim’s behind-the-scenes recollections of the experience:
What were you doing professionally prior to Footloose?
I was an undergraduate acting student at Brigham Young University. Not much professional at this time.
How did you get the role?
There was a huge cattle call. Then another trimmed down [call]. Finally, five of us [were] called back to read for [director] Herbert Ross in a hotel room in Salt Lake City. I think I was cast because I was blond and not rail thin (as he already had Lori and Sarah who were brunette and rail thin), and I’m a decent actor.
Is there one story about your Footloose time you tell more than any other?
Because it strokes my ego: When rehearsing the scene where Lori climbs out of my [moving] car into her boyfriend’s [moving] truck, Herbert rode in the back of a camera truck and held up a pencil for us to look at as a focus point for our reactions when we were to pretend to see the approaching rig. After we did it the first time, Ross said something like “it’s too much” or “you’re overdoing it, I’m only getting anything real from Kim.” I was incredibly proud of this because it isn’t easy to look at a pencil and act like it’s an approaching rig.
While working on it, did it seem like just another script to you, or did it feel like something special?
I wasn’t sure that the script was special. But I knew the people involved were special:
Wiest, Lithgow, Bacon, Ross. I felt, because of them, the movie could be special.
Kim with Laura Wardle What do you remember about your impression of Kevin Bacon? Incredibly professional, focused. Doing his job.
Chris Penn?
Not much interaction with Chris.
Lori Singer?
She may have been in a tough patch. She didn’t seem to be on her game. One day someone brought a viola to the set (I think we were at the Osmond Studios that day because it was inside a large studio and we were very often outside on set) and she played for us in a pink robe and curlers and she was amazing! I thought, wow, she is a very gifted musician.
John Lithgow? He really helped Lori to focus when shooting the scene when he finds her listening to music (bad) at the Hi Spot. When the cameras were reversed and they did Lori’s shot, he could’ve left and let an AD read, but he stayed and pointed at her and really gave her a lot to work with. Also, when they did his shot and he is supposed to be super disappointed in and betrayed by his daughter, the track was set in his path so as he walks away it would have to be over some very wide dolly tracks which would make him need to take unnaturally large steps. As John walked off, the shot was going to be on his face. I remember Herbert offering to reset the shot and John said no and just made it work; acting it perfectly while taking these enormously awkward steps over the dolly track. What a pro.
Dianne Wiest?
Just incredible. Just super professional. And wow, able to make so much out of material that is just “meh.”
Sarah Jessica Parker?
Incredibly confident and charming. She was the doll of the production. She was incredibly funny and entertaining. Witty. A people magnet.
Did you attend the premiere, and if so, what was that like?
We had a premiere in Utah that I attended. My boyfriend took the wrong exit and we were late and I could’ve murdered him.
How often were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that?
Never. I am no one.
Do you remember what you earned for the movie?
$16,000. It paid for graduate school and 3.5 months in Europe.
Do you still earn residuals?
Yes.
What are you doing these days?
I teach at UVU. Do voice work and the odd TV show that is shooting in SLC.
Any interest in acting more frequently? Sure. The money is great when it works.
Where do you live?
Orem, Utah.
Children?
Ages 27, 25, 24, 20.
If they have seen you in Footloose, what do they think about it?
The love me a lot and are very proud of me.
Have you ever participated in a Footloose-related event (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)?
No, I haven't taken part in anything like that. I wouldn't want to.
When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?
I haven’t.
When was the last time you watched Footloose? How did you think it held up?
Can’t remember. Although last year they showed [Lori’s] climbing-out-of-my-car-into-her-boyfriend’s-truck scene in faculty senate at UVU while I was serving as a faculty senator. People think its special that I was in a movie.
Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?
I used to have a small oblong cardboard dashboard sign that said "Paramount" that I stole out of one of trucks. I wish I still had it.
Have you been interviewed before about this specifically, and if so, do you have those clippings (particularly from back then)?
Once. But I don’t know where the clipping went. It was a SLC paper.
What did you think when you first heard from me?
Happy to help.
How do you look back on your Footloose experience?
Positively.
If the experience changed your life in any way, how?
Well, it has always been an attention getter. It is a well-known film. It looked good on my résumé. It paid for school and a trip to Europe. Those things certainly changed my life.
September 10, 2020
"My So-Called Life": an oral history of the 1990s drama
In 1994, I graduated college, then went back to high school. In part because of college.
That fall, ABC debuted the TV drama My So-Called Life.
It had amassed big buzz, but I paid attention to it for another reason as well. One of its producers, Marshall Herskovitz, was a fellow Brandeis University alum (class of '73).
My senior year of college had been humbling. Many of my friends had their first post-college step (whether job or grad school) set by the time spring sprung, if not earlier. I planned to be a screenwriter. In other words, I was spectacularly unset. But not for lack of trying.
In late September 1993, I had combed the Brandeis alumni directory and written letters to every one of them who had some connection to Hollywood. This included Gary David Goldberg (Family Ties) and David Crane (Friends).
Yes, I took a photo of the letters. No regrets.
Those who answered were candid, which I appreciated—but which didn't inspire confidence. My three favorite (though at the time scary) responses:
Benjamin S. Feingold '78, then Senior Vice President Corporate Development, Sony Pictures: "Since you are asking for my advice, to get into the entertainment business, I recommend that you obtain a graduate degree in law, business, or film."Producer Dale Pollock '73: "I caution you not to move [to Los Angeles] without some prospect of a job. Life can be brutal in Hollywood."Writer Harold Livingston '55: "Write. Scripts, outlines, proposals. That's how I did it, and that's how everyone I know did it. It's the only way to do it."
I did not receive a reply from Herskovitz. But that did not deter me from watching all 19 episodes of My So-Called Life (the old-fashioned way: as it aired, once a week).
I felt it lived up to the hype. Its greatest strength (and a factor that distinguished it from other teen shows at the time): restraint. The creators trusted that a character saying nothing says a lot. It coursed with verisimilitude. Who knew that watching people act "real" could be escapist?
Despite being a critical darling, the show lasted only that one season, then went on to develop a cult following, in part because MTV reaired it.
Fifteen years later, I was still not a screenwriter. But I was a writer. Herskovitz accepted my Facebook friend request, accompanied by a sweet note.
Ten years after that, during the peak lockdown period of the COVID-19 pandemic, I revisited the show for the first time since it was originally broadcast. This time I watched with my daughter, who was the same age as the show's main characters.
Nothing so-called about it: everything but the fashion holds up. (On a side note, it's so refreshing to go back to when shows couldn't use—and overuse—cell phone calls to transition from one scene to the next.)
The show's stars have spoken of their MSCL experience (including here and here). For an oral history from a different perspective, I found and interviewed the show's most notable recurring teen characters:
Adam Biesk—Corey (2 episodes)Johnny Green—Kyle (6 episodes)Karen Malina White—Abyssinia (2 episodes)Senta Moses (now Senta Moses Mikan)—Delia (3 episodes)
Adam
Johnny
Karen
Senta
Thank you again to this fab four for looking back on your Life.
What were you doing professionally prior to My So-Called Life?
Adam: After high school I competed in freestyle skiing in Winter Park, Colorado. I did a Mountain Dew commercial while skiing and then studied theater at the University of Colorado, Boulder.
Johnny: I’d been working as an actor since I was four. I was in Back to the Future. It was a big deal when the call came in for MSCL. The guys that did the movie Glory were involved—Academy-Award-winning producers. I made a special effort to apply myself for that part. I asked my mom to drive me to the audition like the old days, so I could study in the car.
Karen: Made my debut with the classic film Lean On Me and booked the coveted role of Charmaine Tyesha Brown on The Cosby Show and its spin-off A Different World. Moved from NYC to Los Angeles in 1992 and booked recurring roles on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Getting By. Finally booking another dramatic series was gratifying.
Senta: I did a bunch of TV shows, commercials, plays, and films. I’ve been in the business since I was 6 months old, so there was a bunch of work before and after MSCL, but none quite compare!
How old were you when you were cast?
Adam: Late twenties.
Johnny: Twenty-two.
Senta: I believe I was 20. At the time I was attending USC with a major in theater.
How did you get the role?
Adam: I was auditioning a lot those days.
Johnny: I knew I had the job during the audition when Winnie turned to Jeff Greenberg (the casting director) and nodded. I didn’t know it was going to be a recurring role. I don’t even know if they knew.
Karen: Auditioned for it. I wasn’t familiar with the show when I auditioned.
Senta: I auditioned for Jeff Greenberg, then received a callback for the role. If memory serves me correctly, Winnie Holzman, Todd Holland, Jeff Greenberg, and Jason Katims were in the room for the producer’s session. I was cast from that session.
Any funny anecdotes about your MSCL experience?
Senta: During production on [the episode] “Life of Brian,” Winnie asked me how I was enjoying my time on the show. I revealed to her that I had a crush on Wilson Cruz (how could you not?) and a few weeks later it was written into an episode. Winnie was wonderful about asking questions and whenever possible pulled from real-life experiences and feelings.
Is there one story about your MSCL time you tell more than any other?
Johnny: I don’t know if I could tell it to you. (laughs)
Senta: The above one because I feel like it really shows the lengths the writers went to in order to put real life in their beautiful scripts! I’m sure many of the actors had a similar experience to mine.
Johnny, of course I have to push a little. Does that mean romance?
Johnny: Yeah, romance and egos. [he politely declined to elaborate]
While working on it, did it seem like just another series to you, or did it feel like something special?
Adam: It really just felt like another series at the time. But there was kind of a buzz going on about the show because the writers and producers had just come from another hit show.
Johnny: You felt the vibe of people involved. I don’t want to say it was timeless, but you knew it was special. I was a young kid, but I’d been around the business. It wasn’t a mainstream show but on at a mainstream time. I had no idea it was going to turn into a cult following situation. After, a lot of people around town were very receptive to me because I was on the show. It was an industry favorite. You get a lot of heat. I played Angelina Jolie’s brother in Gia [1998 HBO movie].
Karen: Just another job. Go in, do what I was hired to do. The cast seemed very close but when you are a guest star it’s just a one- or two-day gig. No space for bonding. I liked that it took place in Pittsburgh. I’m from Philadelphia so it was close enough for me!
Senta: It felt like something special in that it felt like a family who deeply cared about one another. I have fond memories of hanging out in the make-up trailer, listening to music, and chatting with everyone. At the time, I didn’t know that it would become such a cult favorite, but I’m sure glad it did.
Do you know if your character was going to continue to appear if the show got a second season?
Adam: I have no idea. And I had no idea then.
Johnny: I don’t. I’d like to think I’d have gotten Sharon pregnant and made it to season 4 (laughs). [Unbeknownst to Johnny, the showrunners did have plans for Sharon to get pregnant.]
Karen: It was a recurring role so I was hoping that I would return.
Senta: She was, Winnie told me so. I believe Delia was going to forgive Brian and date him, which of course would complicate Angela’s feelings for him, creating a bit of a love triangle. I would have loved to explore more stories with Delia, but it wasn’t meant to be.
Karen, the show was groundbreaking in multiple ways, which makes it all the more surprising that you were its only Black supporting actor who appeared more than once. How did you feel about that at the time? Do you know if the producers planned on increasing the diversity on the show?
Karen: It appeared that they made a conscious effort to be diverse. Wilson Cruz was a cast member but no African Americans. And I think it was a very conscious decision for Abyssinia to be a very intelligent girl who pretended not to be for the sake of a guy she liked. It was a very progressive show through the lens of a young female discovering herself and her voice.
Adam, it was left ambiguous (at least to me) whether or not your character was indeed gay. Do you know?
Adam: It was never established or talked about.
What was your impression of Claire Danes? Did it change over time in any way?
Adam: I remember her being very talented, young, and a bit overwhelmed at the attention and pressure put on her. I believe she was balancing the show with school.
Johnny: She was a talented girl, a great actress. It’s obvious they were grooming her to be a big star.
Karen: I didn’t really have an impression of Claire Danes at the time. She was the lead and I was a guest star. We said hello. She welcomed me to the show and we did the work. My scenes were one or two of many she had. But now I am a superfan of Homeland and love that I can say our paths crossed. So sad that Homeland ended. Claire Danes is a beast! I love her acting!
Senta: She was lovely. So mature and talented and kind. We hung out a bit off set. Claire, Devon [Odessa], and I even went to the West Hollywood Halloween extravaganza and parade together. Claire will always hold a special place in my heart and I’m so happy for her continued success. So happy!
Same question for Wilson Cruz?
Adam: So cool. Open, generous.
Johnny: Just a wonderful human being. Great actor. A pleasure to work with.
Senta: Ah, my forever dance partner. How could you not love Wilson? He was and is such a dear, sweet person. And so friggin’ talented. I’m inspired daily by his activism and passion.
Devon Gummersall?
Adam: Very nice. Was starting to branch out and get other roles at the time. His father is an artist. We all went to his gallery show in Beverly Hills—where I met my now-wife.
Johnny: Kind of detached, intellectual. Sweet kid.
Senta: Devon was awesome. Super professional in every way and it was such a blessing to have so many scenes with him. He made the more difficult moments in scenes easier just by being totally present.
A.J. Langer?
Adam: Very friendly. And more serious, like her character.
Johnny: Really talented. She and Claire were the two that were the most responsible for getting the audience involved in the show.
Senta: I love A.J. She was and is a force of nature. She brought so much to the role of Rayanne and I absolutely loved watching her work through every moment.
Devon Odessa?
Adam: I think I had a bit of a crush on her.
Johnny: Fun to work with. Made it fun to show up for work every day.
Senta: Devon and I were very close during filming. She’s so funny and wonderful and built so many layers into the role of Sharon. I have such fond memories of hanging out with her and our time spent together. It was easy to play friends on the show because we were friends in real life.
Jared Leto?
Adam: Bohemian. Would wear pajama bottoms to the set and play guitar.
Johnny: We some fun messing around with the guitar, exchanging ideas for some riffs.
Senta: I didn’t know Jared that well. We didn’t have any scenes together. But he seemed kind. There was an air of mystery about him for me which I think really played into the whole Jordan Catalano thing.
Adam, how did you meet your wife at that gallery show?
Adam: My wife Sara worked at the gallery at the time. We were all kind of hanging out. Devon, his father (the artist) Greg Gummersall. A.J. and Wilson may have stopped in, too.
Senta, did you realize at the time that the scene with Rickie coming out (the 19th and final episode) was historic?
Senta: At the time, I knew it was important, but given my youth, I don’t think I realized just how important. Elodie Keene (our director) and the producers took an incredible amount of time and care with that specific moment, to be sure it was perfect. I believe we shot that moment about 15 times.
Senta, since it was rare in 1994 for such a revelation on TV (especially among teens), and since he first said he was gay not to a series regular but to your character, how did you feel about being a part of it?
Senta: Winnie and the other producers never treated me as just a guest star. We were a family. If I had to guess, rather than being sure that moment was between two series regulars, they crafted that moment organically based on the stories and the characters. And I think it was easier for Rickie to come out to Delia, as opposed to one of his closer friends. I don’t truly know why they put me in that moment, but I’m so glad that they did. It was a part of television history and I feel blessed to have been there.
Do you remember how Wilson felt about the scene? Do you know if he realized at the time how groundbreaking it was?
Senta: I don’t feel comfortable speaking for Wilson or speculating how he was feeling.
Did you and any of the other young actors hang out off set?
Adam: No. But I do remember running in to A.J. and Wilson a few times, maybe at
bars or parties.
Senta: Yep! I spent the most time with Claire and Devon Odessa.
Were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that?
Adam: To this day I still get recognized. Maybe once a year. At a restaurant or something. Recently a woman who worked at IKEA jumped up and down and said “You’re Corey! You’re Corey!”
Johnny: I’m sure I was. I don’t remember offhand. I had a girlfriend at the time who was hearing about it from her friends at school. I didn’t start to get really recognized for it till it was on MTV.
Senta: To this day, of all the things I’ve worked on, I’m most often recognized from my work on MSCL. My first memory is from a trip to Disneyland. I was there with a few friends from college and a bunch of young girls came up to me, excited to talk about the show and how it related to their lives. It was awesome and I’m so grateful that the show had that kind of impact.
Senta and friends
When was the last time you were recognized?
Johnny: Good question. It’s been a while. I haven’t really aged well. I’m just kidding. I think I was at a grocery store years ago and someone asked me if I was [the actor] Jonathan Schaech.
Karen: I [went] in for an audition a few years ago and the casting director spent the first 10 minutes talking about me being on MSCL and how much she loved that show and still watches it. It’s such a cult favorite and I had no idea! I think she called me into to just meet “Abyssinia.”
Senta: Considering we’ve been in quarantine for almost four months [interview conducted in June 2020], probably earlier this year at the eye doctor. One of the nurses was a fan of the show and told my mom that I still looked the same. Ha! I’ll take that as a compliment and run with it.
How did you feel when the show was cancelled?
Adam: Disappointed because of course I was hoping to stay with the show. But my character was only recurring and that usually lasts for only a few episodes.
Johnny: I’m sure I wasn’t happy but at the same time it didn’t faze me really because that’s the business. It wasn’t a big surprise.
Senta: Devastated, but we had a feeling that it was coming. The initial airing on ABC didn’t receive huge ratings. It wasn’t until MSCL started replaying on MTV that people found it.
Was there a wrap party at the end of the series, and if so, what was that like?
Johnny: If I recall correctly it was at a roller skating rink. We had cake. I wasn’t a big social butterfly back then. I was still a young guy dealing with large amounts of testosterone in my system.
Senta: There was! It was a huge party at a restaurant/club. I remember a lot of dancing and hugs and tears and everything that you would expect from the people on that show. It’s never easy to say goodbye to your TV family.
Devon Gummersall and Senta Mosesat the wrap party
What was your favorite acting gig?
Johnny: Playing a patient with terminal brain cancer on Touched By an Angel. I felt as an actor it was a great opportunity for me. As far as fun, I had a great time doing a movie-of-the-week called The Face on the Milk Carton, with Kellie Martin. We filmed in North Carolina for three weeks.
Karen: The next one!
Senta: That’s such a hard question because I try to find something wonderful about each job that I do. That being said, there were highlights, but they mostly had to do with the people I worked with. MSCL, of course, Faking It for MTV, Greek for ABC Family, Home Alone… God, I’m a very lucky girl and I could go on and on.
What are you doing these days?
Adam: I have a private art advisory business where I build contemporary art collections for private individuals.
Johnny: I’m a father now so my number one acting role is that of daddy. That’s my focus. I’m working on some science fiction stuff on the writing side. Science fiction is my love. I’ve got a screenplay that I’m finishing up that’s a special piece for me. Time travel stuff. It’s kind of like fan fiction based on the BTTF universe. I plan to star in it. I did a movie called Menace with Alison Lohman a while back [2002]. I’ve got an agricultural interest on a tropical island over by Cayman. I’ve got a small six-acre farm there. It’s not my primary revenue source but it’s a passion. I like to spend as much time as possible there.
Karen: Still acting, thank goodness. Currently recording The Proud Family reboot coming out on Disney+ next year. Grateful to be working during the pandemic.
Senta: I’m still earning my living as an actor in Hollywood. The industry has been on hold for a few months because of the coronavirus, so I’m hoping I’ll be back on set before year’s end! The last thing I did was Little Fires Everywhere for Hulu, which was a blast.
Adam
Johnny
Karen
Senta
Adam, what made you leave acting?
Adam: I found another creative outlet that became more satisfying to me.
Do you miss acting? Ever consider getting back into it?
Adam: A lot of being a no-name actor was auditioning all the time and at the end of the day, you didn’t have much to show for it. I really enjoy my life now. It’s extremely creative and rewarding. Sometimes I miss acting but more in a nostalgic way. I think it would be fun to do something again. Maybe someday. When I grow up.
Johnny: Yes. Sean Connery worked up till his 80th birthday.
Where do you live?
Adam: West Hollywood, California.
Johnny: I split time my time between Scottsdale and the island. I have an office in Scottsdale, with some partners. I ended up in Arizona through some friends who had some projects going here.
Karen: Los Angeles, 28 years now.
Senta: I live with my husband and our dog in Los Angeles although I still call Chicago “home” and miss it every day.
Johnny
If you have children, how many and ages?
Adam: I have a 13-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son.
Senta: I don’t have any children.
Adam, have they seen your MSCL episodes, and if so, what did they think?
Adam: They have never seen it. They watch Snapchat and play video games.
How often do you participate in a pop culture-related event (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)?
Adam: I never have.
Johnny: The BTTF stuff. Once the virus ends we’re going to do something in England and Japan.
Senta: I’m happy to show up whenever asked. I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to work in this industry for over 40 years and I know that’s because of the fans.
Are you still in touch with anyone from the cast?
Adam: No.
Johnny: No.
Senta: I still keep in touch with most of the cast through social media. Last year for the 25th anniversary, there was a lot of communication between us, which was fun and made me miss them even more!
When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?
Adam: I can’t remember when.
Johnny: We hung out a bit after the show, mid-90s. Not Claire or Jared, some of the other kids.
Senta: I saw Wilson a few years ago. He was moderating a panel on Faking It at the LGBT Center in Hollywood. Such a fun coincidence and I loved seeing his face after all these years.
When was the last time you watched MSCL? How did you think it held up?
Adam: Probably in 1995.
Johnny: It’s been a while.
Senta: I watched “Life of Brian” last year before a book interview I did about the show. And I thought it absolutely held up. The writers/producers/directors put truth up on that screen!
Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?
Karen: I still have my scripts.
Senta: I’m very sentimental, so I saved photos, scripts, and a t-shirt from the show. They’re some of my most cherished possessions. Especially the scripts with all my crazy actor notes on them.
Have you been interviewed before about MSCL?
Adam: No.
Johnny: No.
Senta: Yep, a bunch of times over the years. It’s so cool to think how many people that little one season show reached.
What did you think when you first heard from me?
Adam: I’m always shocked that people still remember the show.
Johnny: It made sense. I know it’s got a big following.
Senta: I’m always happy when someone reaches out to talk about MSCL. It’s a wonderful walk down memory lane for me.
How do you look back on your MSCL experience?
Johnny: Very blessed to have been a part of it.
Senta: I look back on my experience with nothing but gratitude. I feel so lucky to have played Delia and to have been a part of a show that really touched people. The cast and crew will always hold a very special place in my heart and I can only hope to see each and every one of them again someday. Hollywood is a very small industry, so that’s always possible.
If the experience changed your life in any way, how?
Senta: I’m just grateful that I could be part of a TV show that brought to light so many struggles and emotions of high school kids. It continues to change my life with every person that interviews or speaks to me about how the show made them feel seen.
Anything you’d like to add?
Senta: Thank you for asking me to speak about the show!
NOTES:
I reached Johnny thanks to Adam Gradwell, who runs Scene Stealers, a booking agency for comic cons and events.Interviews conducted June to September 2020.
That fall, ABC debuted the TV drama My So-Called Life.
It had amassed big buzz, but I paid attention to it for another reason as well. One of its producers, Marshall Herskovitz, was a fellow Brandeis University alum (class of '73).
My senior year of college had been humbling. Many of my friends had their first post-college step (whether job or grad school) set by the time spring sprung, if not earlier. I planned to be a screenwriter. In other words, I was spectacularly unset. But not for lack of trying.
In late September 1993, I had combed the Brandeis alumni directory and written letters to every one of them who had some connection to Hollywood. This included Gary David Goldberg (Family Ties) and David Crane (Friends).
Yes, I took a photo of the letters. No regrets.Those who answered were candid, which I appreciated—but which didn't inspire confidence. My three favorite (though at the time scary) responses:
Benjamin S. Feingold '78, then Senior Vice President Corporate Development, Sony Pictures: "Since you are asking for my advice, to get into the entertainment business, I recommend that you obtain a graduate degree in law, business, or film."Producer Dale Pollock '73: "I caution you not to move [to Los Angeles] without some prospect of a job. Life can be brutal in Hollywood."Writer Harold Livingston '55: "Write. Scripts, outlines, proposals. That's how I did it, and that's how everyone I know did it. It's the only way to do it."
I did not receive a reply from Herskovitz. But that did not deter me from watching all 19 episodes of My So-Called Life (the old-fashioned way: as it aired, once a week).
I felt it lived up to the hype. Its greatest strength (and a factor that distinguished it from other teen shows at the time): restraint. The creators trusted that a character saying nothing says a lot. It coursed with verisimilitude. Who knew that watching people act "real" could be escapist?
Despite being a critical darling, the show lasted only that one season, then went on to develop a cult following, in part because MTV reaired it.
Fifteen years later, I was still not a screenwriter. But I was a writer. Herskovitz accepted my Facebook friend request, accompanied by a sweet note.
Ten years after that, during the peak lockdown period of the COVID-19 pandemic, I revisited the show for the first time since it was originally broadcast. This time I watched with my daughter, who was the same age as the show's main characters.
Nothing so-called about it: everything but the fashion holds up. (On a side note, it's so refreshing to go back to when shows couldn't use—and overuse—cell phone calls to transition from one scene to the next.)
The show's stars have spoken of their MSCL experience (including here and here). For an oral history from a different perspective, I found and interviewed the show's most notable recurring teen characters:
Adam Biesk—Corey (2 episodes)Johnny Green—Kyle (6 episodes)Karen Malina White—Abyssinia (2 episodes)Senta Moses (now Senta Moses Mikan)—Delia (3 episodes)
Adam
Johnny
Karen
SentaThank you again to this fab four for looking back on your Life.
What were you doing professionally prior to My So-Called Life?
Adam: After high school I competed in freestyle skiing in Winter Park, Colorado. I did a Mountain Dew commercial while skiing and then studied theater at the University of Colorado, Boulder.
Johnny: I’d been working as an actor since I was four. I was in Back to the Future. It was a big deal when the call came in for MSCL. The guys that did the movie Glory were involved—Academy-Award-winning producers. I made a special effort to apply myself for that part. I asked my mom to drive me to the audition like the old days, so I could study in the car.
Karen: Made my debut with the classic film Lean On Me and booked the coveted role of Charmaine Tyesha Brown on The Cosby Show and its spin-off A Different World. Moved from NYC to Los Angeles in 1992 and booked recurring roles on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Getting By. Finally booking another dramatic series was gratifying.
Senta: I did a bunch of TV shows, commercials, plays, and films. I’ve been in the business since I was 6 months old, so there was a bunch of work before and after MSCL, but none quite compare!
How old were you when you were cast?
Adam: Late twenties.
Johnny: Twenty-two.
Senta: I believe I was 20. At the time I was attending USC with a major in theater.
How did you get the role?
Adam: I was auditioning a lot those days.
Johnny: I knew I had the job during the audition when Winnie turned to Jeff Greenberg (the casting director) and nodded. I didn’t know it was going to be a recurring role. I don’t even know if they knew.
Karen: Auditioned for it. I wasn’t familiar with the show when I auditioned.
Senta: I auditioned for Jeff Greenberg, then received a callback for the role. If memory serves me correctly, Winnie Holzman, Todd Holland, Jeff Greenberg, and Jason Katims were in the room for the producer’s session. I was cast from that session.
Any funny anecdotes about your MSCL experience?
Senta: During production on [the episode] “Life of Brian,” Winnie asked me how I was enjoying my time on the show. I revealed to her that I had a crush on Wilson Cruz (how could you not?) and a few weeks later it was written into an episode. Winnie was wonderful about asking questions and whenever possible pulled from real-life experiences and feelings.
Is there one story about your MSCL time you tell more than any other?
Johnny: I don’t know if I could tell it to you. (laughs)
Senta: The above one because I feel like it really shows the lengths the writers went to in order to put real life in their beautiful scripts! I’m sure many of the actors had a similar experience to mine.
Johnny, of course I have to push a little. Does that mean romance?
Johnny: Yeah, romance and egos. [he politely declined to elaborate]
While working on it, did it seem like just another series to you, or did it feel like something special?
Adam: It really just felt like another series at the time. But there was kind of a buzz going on about the show because the writers and producers had just come from another hit show.
Johnny: You felt the vibe of people involved. I don’t want to say it was timeless, but you knew it was special. I was a young kid, but I’d been around the business. It wasn’t a mainstream show but on at a mainstream time. I had no idea it was going to turn into a cult following situation. After, a lot of people around town were very receptive to me because I was on the show. It was an industry favorite. You get a lot of heat. I played Angelina Jolie’s brother in Gia [1998 HBO movie].
Karen: Just another job. Go in, do what I was hired to do. The cast seemed very close but when you are a guest star it’s just a one- or two-day gig. No space for bonding. I liked that it took place in Pittsburgh. I’m from Philadelphia so it was close enough for me!
Senta: It felt like something special in that it felt like a family who deeply cared about one another. I have fond memories of hanging out in the make-up trailer, listening to music, and chatting with everyone. At the time, I didn’t know that it would become such a cult favorite, but I’m sure glad it did.
Do you know if your character was going to continue to appear if the show got a second season?
Adam: I have no idea. And I had no idea then.
Johnny: I don’t. I’d like to think I’d have gotten Sharon pregnant and made it to season 4 (laughs). [Unbeknownst to Johnny, the showrunners did have plans for Sharon to get pregnant.]
Karen: It was a recurring role so I was hoping that I would return.
Senta: She was, Winnie told me so. I believe Delia was going to forgive Brian and date him, which of course would complicate Angela’s feelings for him, creating a bit of a love triangle. I would have loved to explore more stories with Delia, but it wasn’t meant to be.
Karen, the show was groundbreaking in multiple ways, which makes it all the more surprising that you were its only Black supporting actor who appeared more than once. How did you feel about that at the time? Do you know if the producers planned on increasing the diversity on the show?
Karen: It appeared that they made a conscious effort to be diverse. Wilson Cruz was a cast member but no African Americans. And I think it was a very conscious decision for Abyssinia to be a very intelligent girl who pretended not to be for the sake of a guy she liked. It was a very progressive show through the lens of a young female discovering herself and her voice.
Adam, it was left ambiguous (at least to me) whether or not your character was indeed gay. Do you know?
Adam: It was never established or talked about.
What was your impression of Claire Danes? Did it change over time in any way?
Adam: I remember her being very talented, young, and a bit overwhelmed at the attention and pressure put on her. I believe she was balancing the show with school.
Johnny: She was a talented girl, a great actress. It’s obvious they were grooming her to be a big star.
Karen: I didn’t really have an impression of Claire Danes at the time. She was the lead and I was a guest star. We said hello. She welcomed me to the show and we did the work. My scenes were one or two of many she had. But now I am a superfan of Homeland and love that I can say our paths crossed. So sad that Homeland ended. Claire Danes is a beast! I love her acting!
Senta: She was lovely. So mature and talented and kind. We hung out a bit off set. Claire, Devon [Odessa], and I even went to the West Hollywood Halloween extravaganza and parade together. Claire will always hold a special place in my heart and I’m so happy for her continued success. So happy!
Same question for Wilson Cruz?
Adam: So cool. Open, generous.
Johnny: Just a wonderful human being. Great actor. A pleasure to work with.
Senta: Ah, my forever dance partner. How could you not love Wilson? He was and is such a dear, sweet person. And so friggin’ talented. I’m inspired daily by his activism and passion.
Devon Gummersall?
Adam: Very nice. Was starting to branch out and get other roles at the time. His father is an artist. We all went to his gallery show in Beverly Hills—where I met my now-wife.
Johnny: Kind of detached, intellectual. Sweet kid.
Senta: Devon was awesome. Super professional in every way and it was such a blessing to have so many scenes with him. He made the more difficult moments in scenes easier just by being totally present.
A.J. Langer?
Adam: Very friendly. And more serious, like her character.
Johnny: Really talented. She and Claire were the two that were the most responsible for getting the audience involved in the show.
Senta: I love A.J. She was and is a force of nature. She brought so much to the role of Rayanne and I absolutely loved watching her work through every moment.
Devon Odessa?
Adam: I think I had a bit of a crush on her.
Johnny: Fun to work with. Made it fun to show up for work every day.
Senta: Devon and I were very close during filming. She’s so funny and wonderful and built so many layers into the role of Sharon. I have such fond memories of hanging out with her and our time spent together. It was easy to play friends on the show because we were friends in real life.
Jared Leto?
Adam: Bohemian. Would wear pajama bottoms to the set and play guitar.
Johnny: We some fun messing around with the guitar, exchanging ideas for some riffs.
Senta: I didn’t know Jared that well. We didn’t have any scenes together. But he seemed kind. There was an air of mystery about him for me which I think really played into the whole Jordan Catalano thing.
Adam, how did you meet your wife at that gallery show?
Adam: My wife Sara worked at the gallery at the time. We were all kind of hanging out. Devon, his father (the artist) Greg Gummersall. A.J. and Wilson may have stopped in, too.
Senta, did you realize at the time that the scene with Rickie coming out (the 19th and final episode) was historic?
Senta: At the time, I knew it was important, but given my youth, I don’t think I realized just how important. Elodie Keene (our director) and the producers took an incredible amount of time and care with that specific moment, to be sure it was perfect. I believe we shot that moment about 15 times.
Senta, since it was rare in 1994 for such a revelation on TV (especially among teens), and since he first said he was gay not to a series regular but to your character, how did you feel about being a part of it?
Senta: Winnie and the other producers never treated me as just a guest star. We were a family. If I had to guess, rather than being sure that moment was between two series regulars, they crafted that moment organically based on the stories and the characters. And I think it was easier for Rickie to come out to Delia, as opposed to one of his closer friends. I don’t truly know why they put me in that moment, but I’m so glad that they did. It was a part of television history and I feel blessed to have been there.
Do you remember how Wilson felt about the scene? Do you know if he realized at the time how groundbreaking it was?
Senta: I don’t feel comfortable speaking for Wilson or speculating how he was feeling.
Did you and any of the other young actors hang out off set?
Adam: No. But I do remember running in to A.J. and Wilson a few times, maybe at
bars or parties.
Senta: Yep! I spent the most time with Claire and Devon Odessa.
Were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that?
Adam: To this day I still get recognized. Maybe once a year. At a restaurant or something. Recently a woman who worked at IKEA jumped up and down and said “You’re Corey! You’re Corey!”
Johnny: I’m sure I was. I don’t remember offhand. I had a girlfriend at the time who was hearing about it from her friends at school. I didn’t start to get really recognized for it till it was on MTV.
Senta: To this day, of all the things I’ve worked on, I’m most often recognized from my work on MSCL. My first memory is from a trip to Disneyland. I was there with a few friends from college and a bunch of young girls came up to me, excited to talk about the show and how it related to their lives. It was awesome and I’m so grateful that the show had that kind of impact.
Senta and friendsWhen was the last time you were recognized?
Johnny: Good question. It’s been a while. I haven’t really aged well. I’m just kidding. I think I was at a grocery store years ago and someone asked me if I was [the actor] Jonathan Schaech.
Karen: I [went] in for an audition a few years ago and the casting director spent the first 10 minutes talking about me being on MSCL and how much she loved that show and still watches it. It’s such a cult favorite and I had no idea! I think she called me into to just meet “Abyssinia.”
Senta: Considering we’ve been in quarantine for almost four months [interview conducted in June 2020], probably earlier this year at the eye doctor. One of the nurses was a fan of the show and told my mom that I still looked the same. Ha! I’ll take that as a compliment and run with it.
How did you feel when the show was cancelled?
Adam: Disappointed because of course I was hoping to stay with the show. But my character was only recurring and that usually lasts for only a few episodes.
Johnny: I’m sure I wasn’t happy but at the same time it didn’t faze me really because that’s the business. It wasn’t a big surprise.
Senta: Devastated, but we had a feeling that it was coming. The initial airing on ABC didn’t receive huge ratings. It wasn’t until MSCL started replaying on MTV that people found it.
Was there a wrap party at the end of the series, and if so, what was that like?
Johnny: If I recall correctly it was at a roller skating rink. We had cake. I wasn’t a big social butterfly back then. I was still a young guy dealing with large amounts of testosterone in my system.
Senta: There was! It was a huge party at a restaurant/club. I remember a lot of dancing and hugs and tears and everything that you would expect from the people on that show. It’s never easy to say goodbye to your TV family.
Devon Gummersall and Senta Mosesat the wrap partyWhat was your favorite acting gig?
Johnny: Playing a patient with terminal brain cancer on Touched By an Angel. I felt as an actor it was a great opportunity for me. As far as fun, I had a great time doing a movie-of-the-week called The Face on the Milk Carton, with Kellie Martin. We filmed in North Carolina for three weeks.
Karen: The next one!
Senta: That’s such a hard question because I try to find something wonderful about each job that I do. That being said, there were highlights, but they mostly had to do with the people I worked with. MSCL, of course, Faking It for MTV, Greek for ABC Family, Home Alone… God, I’m a very lucky girl and I could go on and on.
What are you doing these days?
Adam: I have a private art advisory business where I build contemporary art collections for private individuals.
Johnny: I’m a father now so my number one acting role is that of daddy. That’s my focus. I’m working on some science fiction stuff on the writing side. Science fiction is my love. I’ve got a screenplay that I’m finishing up that’s a special piece for me. Time travel stuff. It’s kind of like fan fiction based on the BTTF universe. I plan to star in it. I did a movie called Menace with Alison Lohman a while back [2002]. I’ve got an agricultural interest on a tropical island over by Cayman. I’ve got a small six-acre farm there. It’s not my primary revenue source but it’s a passion. I like to spend as much time as possible there.
Karen: Still acting, thank goodness. Currently recording The Proud Family reboot coming out on Disney+ next year. Grateful to be working during the pandemic.
Senta: I’m still earning my living as an actor in Hollywood. The industry has been on hold for a few months because of the coronavirus, so I’m hoping I’ll be back on set before year’s end! The last thing I did was Little Fires Everywhere for Hulu, which was a blast.
Adam
Johnny
Karen
SentaAdam, what made you leave acting?
Adam: I found another creative outlet that became more satisfying to me.
Do you miss acting? Ever consider getting back into it?
Adam: A lot of being a no-name actor was auditioning all the time and at the end of the day, you didn’t have much to show for it. I really enjoy my life now. It’s extremely creative and rewarding. Sometimes I miss acting but more in a nostalgic way. I think it would be fun to do something again. Maybe someday. When I grow up.
Johnny: Yes. Sean Connery worked up till his 80th birthday.
Where do you live?
Adam: West Hollywood, California.
Johnny: I split time my time between Scottsdale and the island. I have an office in Scottsdale, with some partners. I ended up in Arizona through some friends who had some projects going here.
Karen: Los Angeles, 28 years now.
Senta: I live with my husband and our dog in Los Angeles although I still call Chicago “home” and miss it every day.
JohnnyIf you have children, how many and ages?
Adam: I have a 13-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son.
Senta: I don’t have any children.
Adam, have they seen your MSCL episodes, and if so, what did they think?
Adam: They have never seen it. They watch Snapchat and play video games.
How often do you participate in a pop culture-related event (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)?
Adam: I never have.
Johnny: The BTTF stuff. Once the virus ends we’re going to do something in England and Japan.
Senta: I’m happy to show up whenever asked. I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to work in this industry for over 40 years and I know that’s because of the fans.
Are you still in touch with anyone from the cast?
Adam: No.
Johnny: No.
Senta: I still keep in touch with most of the cast through social media. Last year for the 25th anniversary, there was a lot of communication between us, which was fun and made me miss them even more!
When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?
Adam: I can’t remember when.
Johnny: We hung out a bit after the show, mid-90s. Not Claire or Jared, some of the other kids.
Senta: I saw Wilson a few years ago. He was moderating a panel on Faking It at the LGBT Center in Hollywood. Such a fun coincidence and I loved seeing his face after all these years.
When was the last time you watched MSCL? How did you think it held up?
Adam: Probably in 1995.
Johnny: It’s been a while.
Senta: I watched “Life of Brian” last year before a book interview I did about the show. And I thought it absolutely held up. The writers/producers/directors put truth up on that screen!
Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?
Karen: I still have my scripts.
Senta: I’m very sentimental, so I saved photos, scripts, and a t-shirt from the show. They’re some of my most cherished possessions. Especially the scripts with all my crazy actor notes on them.
Have you been interviewed before about MSCL?
Adam: No.
Johnny: No.
Senta: Yep, a bunch of times over the years. It’s so cool to think how many people that little one season show reached.
What did you think when you first heard from me?
Adam: I’m always shocked that people still remember the show.
Johnny: It made sense. I know it’s got a big following.
Senta: I’m always happy when someone reaches out to talk about MSCL. It’s a wonderful walk down memory lane for me.
How do you look back on your MSCL experience?
Johnny: Very blessed to have been a part of it.
Senta: I look back on my experience with nothing but gratitude. I feel so lucky to have played Delia and to have been a part of a show that really touched people. The cast and crew will always hold a very special place in my heart and I can only hope to see each and every one of them again someday. Hollywood is a very small industry, so that’s always possible.
If the experience changed your life in any way, how?
Senta: I’m just grateful that I could be part of a TV show that brought to light so many struggles and emotions of high school kids. It continues to change my life with every person that interviews or speaks to me about how the show made them feel seen.
Anything you’d like to add?
Senta: Thank you for asking me to speak about the show!
NOTES:
I reached Johnny thanks to Adam Gradwell, who runs Scene Stealers, a booking agency for comic cons and events.Interviews conducted June to September 2020.
