Timothy Ferriss's Blog, page 43
December 21, 2020
Leo Babauta on Zen Habits, Antifragility, Contentment, and Unschooling (#488)

I learned that none of the urges that I thought I needed to act on were actually commands.
— Leo Babauta
Leo Babauta (@zen_habits) is a bestselling author and the founder of Zen Habits, a website dedicated to finding simplicity and mindfulness in the daily chaos of our lives. Zen Habits has more than two million readers, and Time magazine has named it one of their “Top 25 Blogs” and “Top 50 Websites.” He is also a student of Zen and on a mission to help the world open through uncertainty training.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by GiveWell.org, producers of the world’s top research on charities and effective giving, Tonal smart home gym, and Athletic Greens all-in-one supplement. More on all three below.

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#488: Leo Babauta on Zen Habits, Antifragility, Contentment, and Unschooling
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This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to learn more about metta (loving-kindness) meditation? Listen in on my conversation with Sharon Salzberg, the world-renowned teacher who wrote a book on the subject. We discuss self-compassion as a secret ingredient, mental frameworks, defusing anger, doing the good that’s in front of you, and much more.
#277: Sharon Salzberg, World-Renowned Meditation Teacherhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/505397f9-8b1b-4747-b509-06cb97ab28f5.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Leo Babauta:
Zen Habits | Twitter | Facebook
Books by Leo BabautaThe Power of Less: Changing Behavior with Leo Babauta | The Tim Ferriss ShowZen, Tea, and the Art of Life Management | tim.blog10 Steps to Become an Email Ninja by Leo Babauta | tim.blogGuam | WikitravelI Tried to Quit & It’s Too Hard! | Zen Habits10 Tips for Quitting Smoking | Zen HabitsTips for Running Your First 5k Race | Verywell FitA Girl, A Shoe, A Prince: The Endlessly Evolving Cinderella | NPRHow Habits Are Formed | Zen HabitsHold Your Own Feet to the Fire | Zen HabitsWhat ‘Embrace the Suck’ Means to the Military | Military.comJim Dethmer — How to Shift from Victim Consciousness, Reduce Drama, Practice Candor, Be Fully Alive, and More | The Tim Ferriss ShowThe Brady Bunch | CBSLifehacker43 FoldersDumb Little ManThe List to Beat All Lists: Top 20 Productivity Lists to Rock Your Tasks | Zen HabitsThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissDiggZen To Done (ZTD): The Simple Productivity System | Zen HabitsRedditDelicious (Website) | WikipediaFrom Geek to Freak: How I Gained 34 lbs. of Muscle in 4 Weeks | tim.blogPandemic Buying: The Odd, Comforting Things Americans Are Buying | CBS NewsJapanese Zen Buddhist Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyTribe of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Timothy FerrissZen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunyru SuzukiWhat Is Zen? Plain Talk for a Beginner’s Mind by Norman Fischer and Susan MoonThe Sixteen Bodhisattva Precepts | San Francisco Zen CenterBrahmajāla Sūtra | WikipediaExodus 20: The 10 Commandments | Bible GatewayThe Beginner’s Guide to Unschooling | Zen HabitsCan Unschoolers Get Into College? | Blake Boles7 Colleges for Homeschooled, Unschooled, and Self-Directed Learners | Adorable ChaosThe Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and Education by Grace Llewellyn | ShikshantarBooks by Alfie KohnHow I’m Overcoming My Obsession with Constant Self-Improvement | Fast CompanyMetta (Loving-Kindness) Meditation | Metta InstituteJoy on Demand: The Art of Discovering the Happiness Within by Chade-Meng TanRadical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara BrachThe Coronavirus Makes The Future Uncertain. Here’s How To Cope | NPRThe Year of Living Uncertainly | The Atlantic
SHOW NOTES
Rewinding the clock, Leo shows us what his life was like in Guam circa 2005 and shares the catalyst that sparked the big life changes he’s made between then and now. [06:54]After trying to quit smoking seven times before, what made Leo’s eighth attempt stick? [12:15]Why the inevitable dip we experience when forming a habit is potentially the most important part of making it stick — if we absorb what it has to teach us in the moment rather than allowing it to derail our efforts. [15:40]Embracing the suck, putting mindfulness to work for us when the going gets tough, and the thought processes that led to Leo and his family of eight to move from Guam to San Francisco in 2010 — from a place of comfort surrounded by extended family to a somewhat jarring and alien landscape where they didn’t really know anyone. [17:56]When Leo started Zen Habits in January of 2007, how did he manage to expand its popularity from an audience of one (his wife) to thousands — and eventually millions — in a relatively short period of time? [25:42]In hindsight, what other forays into the productivity space and experimental tactics really helped launch Zen Habits into the blogging stratosphere between 2007 and 2009? What made Leo’s work stand out from the competition in this crowded arena? [31:47]What would Leo suggest to someone trying to simplify their life — especially during the anxiety-driving uncertainties of 2020? [38:10]How can we get better at saying no to overcommitments that unnecessarily complicate our lives? [40:37]What are some of the rules, constraints, and forms of accountability that Leo has found powerfully effective in his own life? [43:39]What resources would Leo recommend to someone curious about Zen Buddhism, what are some commonly mistaken preconceptions people have about it, and how has the practice been helpful to Leo in his own life? [45:06]What are the bodhisattva precepts, what vows has Leo considered taking, and what has motivated him to take them? And in spite of some surface similarities, how do these precepts differ from the 10 commandments most Westerners will find familiar? [48:23]How have Leo and his wife managed to homeschool — or, more accurately, unschool — six children, why did they choose this over other options for education, and what does unschooling look like? [53:06]Is unschooling an ideal preparation for potential entrepreneurs? Does it perhaps underprepare someone seeking to continue their education at a traditional university? [59:53]Resources Leo recommends for people who would like to learn more about homeschooling and unschooling along with common pitfalls and best practices? [1:02:47]What changes in life habits or new beliefs have had the greatest impact on Leo’s contentment, and what do they look like in practice? [1:03:40]Resources for people who want to delve further into metta (loving-kindness) meditation. [1:09:53]What compelled Leo to go through nine months of masculine practice training with John Wineland, and what did he take away from the experience? [1:11:16]A practical daily exercise Leo learned during this time, and some of his most surprising results. [1:14:32]Why this pandemic presents a unique opportunity to train ourselves to cope with uncertainty and anxiety, and how Leo proposes we can put this into practice. [1:17:07]Some bad news and good news from a Tibetan Buddhist master that might help you surf the chaos accompanied by less fear. [1:22:23]Parting thoughts. [1:24:46]
PEOPLE MENTIONED
CinderellaJim DethmerShunryū SuzukiNorman FischerAlfie KohnChade-Meng TanTara BrachDavid DeidaJohn WinelandChögyam Trungpa
December 16, 2020
Dr. Martine Rothblatt — A Masterclass on Asking Better Questions and Peering Into the Future (#487)

Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.
— Dr. Martine Rothblatt
Martine Rothblatt (@skybiome) is chairman and CEO of United Therapeutics, a biotechnology company she started to save the life of one of her daughters. The company offers FDA-approved medicines for pulmonary hypertension and neuroblastoma and is working on manufacturing an unlimited supply of transplantable organs.
Dr. Rothblatt previously created and led Sirius XM as its chairman and CEO and launched other satellite systems for navigation and international television broadcasting. In the field of aviation, her Sirius XM satellite system enhances safety with real-time digital weather information to pilots in flight nationwide. She also designed the world’s first electric helicopter and piloted it to a Guinness world record for speed, altitude, and flight duration.
In the legal arena, Dr. Rothblatt led efforts of the transgender community to establish their own health law standards and of the International Bar Association to protect autonomy rights in genetic information via an international treaty. She also published dozens of scholarly articles and papers on the law of outer space, resulting in her election to the International Institute of Space Law, and represented the radio astronomy community’s scientific research interests before the Federal Communications Commission.
She has bachelor’s (communications studies, summa cum laude), JD (Order of the Coif) and MBA degrees from UCLA, which in 2018 awarded her its highest recognition, the UCLA Medal, and she holds a PhD in medical ethics from the Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry. Her patented inventions cover aspects of satellite communication, medicinal biochemistry, and cognitive software.
Dr. Rothblatt’s recent books are on xenotransplantation (Your Life or Mine), gender identity (Transgender to Transhuman), and cyberethics (Virtually Human). She occasionally posts on Instagram at @transbinary and Twitter at @skybiome.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by FreshBooks cloud-based small business accounting software, Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#487: Dr. Martine Rothblatt — The Incredible Polymath of Polymathshttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/af8b3566-2f37-4a85-afb2-bc7228cf1181.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. I’ve been talking about FreshBooks—an all-in-one invoicing + payments + accounting solution—for years now. Many entrepreneurs, as well as the contractors and freelancers that I work with, use it all the time.
FreshBooks makes it super easy to track things like expenses, project time, and client info and then merge it all into great-looking invoices. FreshBooks can save users up to 200 hours a year on accounting and bookkeeping tasks. Right now FreshBooks is offering my listeners a free 30-day trial, and no credit card is required. Go to FreshBooks.com/Tim and enter “Tim Ferriss” in the “How did you hear about us?” section!
This episode is brought to you by Headspace! Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, Headspace can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute SOS meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, Headspace even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.
Go to Headspace.com/Tim for a FREE one-month trial with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode with someone who took a lightning bolt to her soul for science? Listen to my conversation with Columbia physics and astronomy professor Janna Levin, in which we discuss youthful indiscretion, omnivorous reading, Möbius strips, philosophy 101, UFOs, and much more.
#445: Janna Levin on Extra Dimensions, Time Travel, and How to Overcome Boots in the Facehttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/6c86cddb-7d41-471c-a58a-20bafc7ef516.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Martine Rothblatt:
United TherapeuticsYour Life or Mine How Geoethics Can Resolvethe Conflict Between Publicand Private Interests in Xenotransplantation by Martine RothblattFrom Transgender to Transhuman: A Manifesto On the Freedom Of Form by Martine RothblattVirtually Human: The Promise―and the Peril―of Digital Immortality by Martine RothblattThe Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are by Alan WattsHer | Prime VideoBINA48 Meets Bina Rothblatt, Part One | The LifeNaut ProjectBINA48 Meets Bina Rothblatt, Part Two | The LifeNaut ProjectAbraham Lincoln Full Speech, Hall Of Presidents, Disney World | MouseStepsMost Powerful Moment In Black Mirror: Be Right Back | BrainPilotUpload | Prime VideoStranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. HeinleinTime Enough for Love by Robert A. HeinleinUCLAChildren’s National HospitalShepard’s Citations | WikipediaDoing Well | Barron’sSiriusXMWhat Is a Satellite? | NASAIndian Ocean Station | WikipediaCosmos: A Personal Voyage | WikipediaThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnParable of the Sower by Octavia E. ButlerParable of the Talents by Octavia E. ButlerAnthony Fauci: ‘We Are Living in the Perfect Storm’ | Financial TimesTransgender FAQ | GLAADWhat Is Trans and What Does Non-binary Mean? | PinkNewsLGBTQ+ Terms and Definitions | TSERThe Human Genome Project in 2020 Hindsight | GENInternational Bar Association (IBA)Consent and Autonomy in the Genomics Era | Current Genetic Medicine ReportsDr. Mark Plotkin on Ethnobotany, Real vs. Fake Shamans, Hallucinogens, and the Dalai Lamas of South America | The Tim Ferriss Show #469Little People of Ecuador: Laron Syndrome May Unlock Cancer, Diabetes Cure | NBC NewsLaron Syndrome | Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center (GARD) | NIHGeneration of a Miniature Pig Disease Model for Human Laron Syndrome | Scientific ReportsA CEO Who Wants to Genetically Modify Pig Organs for Human Transplant | CNBCNorthwell HealthNational GeographicScientific AmericanElectronic Medicine Fights Disease | Scientific American9 Fascinating Facts About the Vagus Nerve | Mental FlossVagus Nerve Stimulation | Mayo ClinicCrohn’s Disease Symptoms and Causes | Mayo ClinicIrritable Bowel Syndrome Symptoms and Causes | Mayo ClinicRheumatoid Arthritis Symptoms and Causes | Mayo Clinic11 Fun Facts About the Nervous System | Healthline(PDF) Auricular Acupuncture and Vagal Regulation | Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative MedicineTranscranial Direct Current Stimulation (tDCS) | Johns HopkinsWhat is Alzheimer’s Disease? | alz.orgES2528029T3: Cognitive Enabler for Alzheimer’s Disease | Google PatentsEEG & ECG Biosensor Solutions | NeuroSkyAlive Inside: A Story of Music and Memory | Prime VideoMartine Rothblatt: She Founded SiriusXM, a Religion, and a Biotech. For Starters. | The Washington PostYamaha Music SchoolShabbat 101 | My Jewish LearningZoomGoogle MeetThe Emotion Machine: Commonsense Thinking, Artificial Intelligence, and the Future of the Human Mind by Marvin MinskyWhat Are Clarke’s Laws? | ThoughtCo.NeuralinkPositive and Negative Liberty | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyIs It Time for a Presidential Technoethics Commission? | The ConversationAmerican Medical AssociationThomas Eakins, The Gross Clinic and The Agnew Clinic | SmarthistoryClimate Change: 12 Years to Save the Planet? Make That 18 Months | BBC NewsIs Nuclear Power Zero-Emission? No, but It Isn’t High-Emission Either | The ConversationUnited Therapeutics’ Office, the Unisphere, Is a Net-Zero Marvel | Fast CompanyRecord-Breaking “Dream Team” Proves Doubters Wrong with Electric Helicopter Achievement | Guinness World RecordsThe Real Story Behind Apple’s ‘Think Different’ Campaign | Forbes
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
Why is Martine such a fan of Alan Watts and his exploration about what it means to be human, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are?Did Martine find the movie Her to be a compelling presentation of how artificial sentience and human beings might coexist?Who or what is BINA48? Does Martine think we’re anywhere near achieving convincingly realized simulations of humans as seen in Black Mirror season two, episode one Be Right Back?Growing up, who did Martine count as her role models and inspirations?How did Martine start a biotechnology company to save the life of one of her daughters in spite of only having taken biology in high school? What did it take to even comprehend the scope of such an endeavor, and what was the journey that made it a reality?What were the three incorrect assumptions pharmaceutical company Glaxo Wellcome made in not pursuing production of the drug from which Martine’s company has since made billions of dollars?When did Martine first fall in love with the satellite communication systems that would lead to the creation of satellite radio company SiriusXM?What can we do to cultivate more scientific literacy in our society? Are there any resources Martine would recommend to someone looking to increase their own fluency in science? What one-word question fires the imagination of curious adults as well as any four-year-old?Coming out as transgender at age 40, how did Martine relate to gender in her younger years? How did her American predisposition to question authority play into this?What does Martine mean when she says she didn’t identify as strictly male or female, and how might this be expressed by others going through similar, but not necessarily identical journeys of self-discovery?What were the biggest decisions Martine made along her gradual path of transition?Now that we can map the human genome, Martine elaborates on the need for an international treaty to guarantee autonomy rights and genetic information protections.How an isolated population in South America relates to Martine’s efforts to make the shortage of transplantable organs (like hearts, livers, and kidneys) a thing of the past.What is the vagus nerve, and how is United Therapeutics attempting to manipulate it for the purpose of therapy in conditions such as Crohn’s disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and rheumatoid arthritis? How do recent discoveries in this area of research lend credibility to ancient therapies like acupuncture?Martine talks about her patent for an Alzheimer’s cognitive enabler and what inspired its invention, and I recommend a documentary for people curious about how music can act as therapy for people in even the most advanced stages of Alzheimer’s disease.How did the family practice of “love nights” come about in the Rothblatt household? How is it observed now that Martine’s children have grown up and have households of their own in a year when COVID keeps everyone from coming together physically? What have been some of the most unique answers to the question “What does love mean to you?” and how might you answer this?Does Martine believe it will be possible for machines to someday understand and experience what love means in the same way we do? If so, when might we expect the breakthrough that will make this possible?For Martine, what are some of the most important ethical questions or considerations related to technology as we move into future decades?What common contemporary practices does Martine think future generations will view as barbaric or backward?Against popular projections that such a thing wouldn’t be possible on a grand scale until 2050 (or so) how did United Therapeutics build a zero carbon footprint headquarters in 2019?Elevating the “Reduce, reuse, recycle” slogan to a new level, how does United Therapeutics refurbish lungs deemed unusable — a process that has so far saved over 150 lives?“Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.” Why United Therapeutics didn’t hop on immediate efforts to create a COVID-19 vaccine, but opts instead to develop therapies for people suffering from the long-term effects of the virus.What would Martine’s billboard say?Martine’s advice for people who struggle to find the positives in life.Parting thoughts.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Alan WattsFrank SasinowskiTeilhard de ChardinBina RothblattBINA48Robert A. HeinleinVirginia HeinleinLazarus LongRobert KennedyBob BellJohn VaneCarl SaganThomas KuhnIsaac NewtonAlbert EinsteinJames Clerk MaxwellOctavia ButlerTony FauciPaul ReverePrinceBoy GeorgeCraig VenterFrancis CollinsZvi LaronKevin TraceyMarvin MinskyArthur C. ClarkeElon MuskRay KurzweilIsaiah BerlinSamuel D. GrossThomas EakinsDavid Hayes AgnewJoseph ListerJack WelchSteve Jobs
Dr. Martine Rothblatt — The Incredible Polymath of Polymaths (#487)

Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.
— Dr. Martine Rothblatt
Martine Rothblatt (@skybiome) is chairman and CEO of United Therapeutics, a biotechnology company she started to save the life of one of her daughters. The company offers FDA-approved medicines for pulmonary hypertension and neuroblastoma and is working on manufacturing an unlimited supply of transplantable organs.
Dr. Rothblatt previously created and led Sirius XM as its chairman and CEO and launched other satellite systems for navigation and international television broadcasting. In the field of aviation, her Sirius XM satellite system enhances safety with real-time digital weather information to pilots in flight nationwide. She also designed the world’s first electric helicopter and piloted it to a Guinness world record for speed, altitude, and flight duration.
In the legal arena, Dr. Rothblatt led efforts of the transgender community to establish their own health law standards and of the International Bar Association to protect autonomy rights in genetic information via an international treaty. She also published dozens of scholarly articles and papers on the law of outer space, resulting in her election to the International Institute of Space Law, and represented the radio astronomy community’s scientific research interests before the Federal Communications Commission.
She has bachelor’s (communications studies, summa cum laude), JD (Order of the Coif) and MBA degrees from UCLA, which in 2018 awarded her its highest recognition, the UCLA Medal, and she holds a PhD in medical ethics from the Royal London School of Medicine and Dentistry. Her patented inventions cover aspects of satellite communication, medicinal biochemistry, and cognitive software.
Dr. Rothblatt’s recent books are on xenotransplantation (Your Life or Mine), gender identity (Transgender to Transhuman), and cyberethics (Virtually Human). She occasionally posts on Instagram at @transbinary and Twitter at @skybiome.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by FreshBooks cloud-based small business accounting software, Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

[image error]Listen onSpotify
[image error]Listen onOvercast
#487: Dr. Martine Rothblatt — The Incredible Polymath of Polymaths
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/af8b3566-2f37-4a85-afb2-bc7228cf1181.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks. I’ve been talking about FreshBooks—an all-in-one invoicing + payments + accounting solution—for years now. Many entrepreneurs, as well as the contractors and freelancers that I work with, use it all the time.
FreshBooks makes it super easy to track things like expenses, project time, and client info and then merge it all into great-looking invoices. FreshBooks can save users up to 200 hours a year on accounting and bookkeeping tasks. Right now FreshBooks is offering my listeners a free 30-day trial, and no credit card is required. Go to FreshBooks.com/Tim and enter “Tim Ferriss” in the “How did you hear about us?” section!
This episode is brought to you by Headspace! Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, Headspace can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute SOS meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, Headspace even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.
Go to Headspace.com/Tim for a FREE one-month trial with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
Right now, Athletic Greens is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode with someone who took a lightning bolt to her soul for science? Listen to my conversation with Columbia physics and astronomy professor Janna Levin, in which we discuss youthful indiscretion, omnivorous reading, Möbius strips, philosophy 101, UFOs, and much more.
#445: Janna Levin on Extra Dimensions, Time Travel, and How to Overcome Boots in the Facehttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/6c86cddb-7d41-471c-a58a-20bafc7ef516.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Martine Rothblatt:
United TherapeuticsYour Life or Mine How Geoethics Can Resolvethe Conflict Between Publicand Private Interests in Xenotransplantation by Martine RothblattFrom Transgender to Transhuman: A Manifesto On the Freedom Of Form by Martine RothblattVirtually Human: The Promise―and the Peril―of Digital Immortality by Martine RothblattThe Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are by Alan WattsHer | Prime VideoBINA48 Meets Bina Rothblatt, Part One | The LifeNaut ProjectBINA48 Meets Bina Rothblatt, Part Two | The LifeNaut ProjectAbraham Lincoln Full Speech, Hall Of Presidents, Disney World | MouseStepsMost Powerful Moment In Black Mirror: Be Right Back | BrainPilotUpload | Prime VideoStranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. HeinleinTime Enough for Love by Robert A. HeinleinUCLAChildren’s National HospitalShepard’s Citations | WikipediaDoing Well | Barron’sSiriusXMWhat Is a Satellite? | NASAIndian Ocean Station | WikipediaCosmos: A Personal Voyage | WikipediaThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnParable of the Sower by Octavia E. ButlerParable of the Talents by Octavia E. ButlerAnthony Fauci: ‘We Are Living in the Perfect Storm’ | Financial TimesTransgender FAQ | GLAADWhat Is Trans and What Does Non-binary Mean? | PinkNewsLGBTQ+ Terms and Definitions | TSERThe Human Genome Project in 2020 Hindsight | GENInternational Bar Association (IBA)Consent and Autonomy in the Genomics Era | Current Genetic Medicine ReportsDr. Mark Plotkin on Ethnobotany, Real vs. Fake Shamans, Hallucinogens, and the Dalai Lamas of South America | The Tim Ferriss Show #469Little People of Ecuador: Laron Syndrome May Unlock Cancer, Diabetes Cure | NBC NewsLaron Syndrome | Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center (GARD) | NIHGeneration of a Miniature Pig Disease Model for Human Laron Syndrome | Scientific ReportsA CEO Who Wants to Genetically Modify Pig Organs for Human Transplant | CNBCNorthwell HealthNational GeographicScientific AmericanElectronic Medicine Fights Disease | Scientific American9 Fascinating Facts About the Vagus Nerve | Mental FlossVagus Nerve Stimulation | Mayo ClinicCrohn’s Disease Symptoms and Causes | Mayo ClinicIrritable Bowel Syndrome Symptoms and Causes | Mayo ClinicRheumatoid Arthritis Symptoms and Causes | Mayo Clinic11 Fun Facts About the Nervous System | Healthline(PDF) Auricular Acupuncture and Vagal Regulation | Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative MedicineTranscranial Direct Current Stimulation (tDCS) | Johns HopkinsWhat is Alzheimer’s Disease? | alz.orgES2528029T3: Cognitive Enabler for Alzheimer’s Disease | Google PatentsEEG & ECG Biosensor Solutions | NeuroSkyAlive Inside: A Story of Music and Memory | Prime VideoMartine Rothblatt: She Founded SiriusXM, a Religion, and a Biotech. For Starters. | The Washington PostYamaha Music SchoolShabbat 101 | My Jewish LearningZoomGoogle MeetThe Emotion Machine: Commonsense Thinking, Artificial Intelligence, and the Future of the Human Mind by Marvin MinskyWhat Are Clarke’s Laws? | ThoughtCo.NeuralinkPositive and Negative Liberty | Stanford Encyclopedia of PhilosophyIs It Time for a Presidential Technoethics Commission? | The ConversationAmerican Medical AssociationThomas Eakins, The Gross Clinic and The Agnew Clinic | SmarthistoryClimate Change: 12 Years to Save the Planet? Make That 18 Months | BBC NewsIs Nuclear Power Zero-Emission? No, but It Isn’t High-Emission Either | The ConversationUnited Therapeutics’ Office, the Unisphere, Is a Net-Zero Marvel | Fast CompanyRecord-Breaking “Dream Team” Proves Doubters Wrong with Electric Helicopter Achievement | Guinness World RecordsThe Real Story Behind Apple’s ‘Think Different’ Campaign | Forbes
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
Why is Martine such a fan of Alan Watts and his exploration about what it means to be human, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are?Did Martine find the movie Her to be a compelling presentation of how artificial sentience and human beings might coexist?Who or what is BINA48? Does Martine think we’re anywhere near achieving convincingly realized simulations of humans as seen in Black Mirror season two, episode one Be Right Back?Growing up, who did Martine count as her role models and inspirations?How did Martine start a biotechnology company to save the life of one of her daughters in spite of only having taken biology in high school? What did it take to even comprehend the scope of such an endeavor, and what was the journey that made it a reality?What were the three incorrect assumptions pharmaceutical company Glaxo Wellcome made in not pursuing production of the drug from which Martine’s company has since made billions of dollars?When did Martine first fall in love with the satellite communication systems that would lead to the creation of satellite radio company SiriusXM?What can we do to cultivate more scientific literacy in our society? Are there any resources Martine would recommend to someone looking to increase their own fluency in science? What one-word question fires the imagination of curious adults as well as any four-year-old?Coming out as transgender at age 40, how did Martine relate to gender in her younger years? How did her American predisposition to question authority play into this?What does Martine mean when she says she didn’t identify as strictly male or female, and how might this be expressed by others going through similar, but not necessarily identical journeys of self-discovery?What were the biggest decisions Martine made along her gradual path of transition?Now that we can map the human genome, Martine elaborates on the need for an international treaty to guarantee autonomy rights and genetic information protections.How an isolated population in South America relates to Martine’s efforts to make the shortage of transplantable organs (like hearts, livers, and kidneys) a thing of the past.What is the vagus nerve, and how is United Therapeutics attempting to manipulate it for the purpose of therapy in conditions such as Crohn’s disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and rheumatoid arthritis? How do recent discoveries in this area of research lend credibility to ancient therapies like acupuncture?Martine talks about her patent for an Alzheimer’s cognitive enabler and what inspired its invention, and I recommend a documentary for people curious about how music can act as therapy for people in even the most advanced stages of Alzheimer’s disease.How did the family practice of “love nights” come about in the Rothblatt household? How is it observed now that Martine’s children have grown up and have households of their own in a year when COVID keeps everyone from coming together physically? What have been some of the most unique answers to the question “What does love mean to you?” and how might you answer this?Does Martine believe it will be possible for machines to someday understand and experience what love means in the same way we do? If so, when might we expect the breakthrough that will make this possible?For Martine, what are some of the most important ethical questions or considerations related to technology as we move into future decades?What common contemporary practices does Martine think future generations will view as barbaric or backward?Against popular projections that such a thing wouldn’t be possible on a grand scale until 2050 (or so) how did United Therapeutics build a zero carbon footprint headquarters in 2019?Elevating the “Reduce, reuse, recycle” slogan to a new level, how does United Therapeutics refurbish lungs deemed unusable — a process that has so far saved over 150 lives?“Identify the corridors of indifference and run like hell down them.” Why United Therapeutics didn’t hop on immediate efforts to create a COVID-19 vaccine, but opts instead to develop therapies for people suffering from the long-term effects of the virus.What would Martine’s billboard say?Martine’s advice for people who struggle to find the positives in life.Parting thoughts.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Alan WattsFrank SasinowskiTeilhard de ChardinBina RothblattBINA48Robert A. HeinleinVirginia HeinleinLazarus LongRobert KennedyBob BellJohn VaneCarl SaganThomas KuhnIsaac NewtonAlbert EinsteinJames Clerk MaxwellOctavia ButlerTony FauciPaul ReverePrinceBoy GeorgeCraig VenterFrancis CollinsZvi LaronKevin TraceyMarvin MinskyArthur C. ClarkeElon MuskRay KurzweilIsaiah BerlinSamuel D. GrossThomas EakinsDavid Hayes AgnewJoseph ListerJack WelchSteve Jobs
December 9, 2020
Harley Finkelstein — Tactics and Strategies from Shopify, the Future of Retail, and More (#486)

I’m fascinated with how people find ambition, keep ambition, increase ambition, and unfortunately, as well, lose ambition.
— Harley Finkelstein
Harley Finkelstein (@harleyf) is an entrepreneur, lawyer, and the President of Shopify. He founded his first company at age 17 while a student at McGill. Harley is an advisor to Felicis Ventures, and he is one of the “dragons” on CBC’s Next Gen Den. In 2017, he received the Canadian Angel Investor of the Year award and Canada’s Top 40 Under 40 award, and in 2016 he was inducted into the Order of Ottawa. From 2014 to 2017 Harley was on the board of the C100, and from 2017 to 2020 he was on to the board of directors of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC).
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
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#486: Harley Finkelstein — Tactics and Strategies from Shopify, The Future of Retail, and More
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
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Want to hear an episode with Shopify’s founder and CEO? Check out my conversation with Tobi Lütke, in which we discuss feedback as a gift, fostering a growth mindset, the impact of dyslexia on Tobi’s reading list and coding endeavors, understanding “the next box,” why the business world should be keeping a close eye on the video game industry, Enneagrams, and much more.
#359: Tobi Lütke — From Snowboard Shop to Billion-Dollar Companyhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/b4c1d67d-0bb9-47bf-b4a7-2324447e17bd.mp3Download
DISCLAIMER: I own stock in Shopify. I was not compensated in any way to have Shopify represented on the program or to talk about my reasons for investing in Shopify. I may financially benefit if Shopify’s stock goes up in value. I am not an investment adviser. All opinions are mine alone. There are risks involved in placing an investment in any company. None of the information presented today is intended to form the basis for any offer or recommendation, or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation or needs of any specific person.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Harley Finkelstein:
Connect with Shopify:
Shopify | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube
Next Gen Den | CBCAllbirdsBombasGymsharkFashion NovaHigh Output Management by Andrew S. GroveThe Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers by Ben HorowitzAntifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder by Nassim Nicholas TalebThe Alchemist:A Fable About Following Your Dream by Paulo CoelhoThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissWhat is Tall Poppy Syndrome? | The Tallest PoppyOttawa, ON | CanadaQuébec Referendum (1995) | The Canadian EncyclopediaMontréal. QC | CanadaQuebec Anglophones under Attack and Fear Worse Is Yet to Come from New CAQ Government | The Globe and MailMcGill UniversityThe Truth Behind the “Schmatta” Business | IrenebrinationAmerican ApparelParasucoWhat Is an Economic Moat? | InvestopediaDownton Abbey | Prime VideoUniversity of OttawaWhat Is the Socratic Method? | ThoughtCo.When Is an MBA Worth It? | InvestopediaSocrates in 90 Minutes by Paul StrathernWittgenstein in 90 Minutes by Paul StrathernPlato in 90 Minutes by Paul StrathernPlato in 90 Minutes by Paul StrathernDialectic | WikipediaThe Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr. and E.B. WhiteMoot Court | WikipediaOn Writing Well: The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction by William ZinsserHere’s What Stephen King Has to Say About The Elements Of Style | The Reading RoomDraft No. 4: On the Writing Process by John McPheeDune by Frank HerbertChief Operating Officer (COO) Definition | InvestopediaShopify Launches Build a Business Competition | ShopifyInvest OttawaBridgehead CoffeeTravelPod: 20 Years of Epic AdventuresMessenger KidsGetaroundFluidSurveys | CrunchbaseFellowSnowdevilRuby on RailsZapposThe Dark Knight | Prime VideoGoogle AdsHow to Become a Lawyer in Canada | LawyerEDU.orgWhat does Series-A, Series-B, Series-C Funding Mean in Startups? | Startup FreakBessemer’s Ten Laws for SaaS Companies | Velocity PartnersByWard MarketFelicis VenturesFirstMark CapitalRovioAngry BirdsRailsConf 2020Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey MooreOne Waan | San FranciscoNike Inc.’s Unique Vision Statement and Its 11 Maxims | The Balance Small BusinessShopify, a Start-Up, Starts Its Own Business Competition | The New York TimesShopify Announces Build a Business Competition Winners | ShopifyMaker of iPad Cases Wins Shopify Competition (and $100,000) | The New York TimesDODOcase, Inc.Barack Obama iPad in DODOcase | HuffPostShopify Announces Winners of Inaugural Build a BIGGER Business Competition | Business WireIf You Invested $10,000 in Shopify’s IPO, This Is How Much Money You’d Have Now | The Motley FoolBarneys Is Sold for Scrap, Ending an Era | The New York TimesJ.CrewNick Kokonas on Resurrecting Restaurants, Skin in the Game, and Investing | The Tim Ferriss Show #429Chipotle Farmers Market | Chipotle Mexican GrillHeinz Sauces & CondimentsShopify Suspends Guidance for 2020 Amid Coronavirus Pandemic | The Motley FoolTrust Battery | SessionLabIntegral Coaching Method | Integral Coaching CanadaMossadThe Tim Ferriss Radio Hour: Meditation, Mindset, and Mastery | The Tim Ferriss Show #2019 Types of Meditation: Which One Is Right for You? | HealthlineInsight TimerTranscendental MeditationJack Kornfield — Finding Freedom, Love, and Joy in the Present | The Tim Ferriss Show #300Sharon Salzberg, World-Renowned Meditation Teacher | The Tim Ferriss Show #277StripeFUBUI Quit! | DiscoveryShark Tank | ABCPreventing Burnout: A Cautionary Tale by Charlie Hoehn | tim.blogThe Third Door: The Wild Quest to Uncover How the World’s Most Successful People Launched Their Careers by Alex BanayanShoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil KnightOpen: An Autobiography by Andre AgassiFinite and Infinite Games by James Carse
SHOW NOTES
For anyone not in the know, what is Shopify, and how does Harley envision it scaling to become the entrepreneurship company? [06:50]What books have been most formative for Harley in his business journey with Shopify? What books has he gifted the most to other people? [09:37]How much has Shopify grown during the time in which I’ve known Harley? [14:00]How did Harley wind up moving from Montreal to South Florida and back to Montreal again, who is Phillip Rimer, and what part does he play in Harley’s story? [19:14]As someone who went to law school not to become a lawyer, but become a more effective entrepreneur, what were Harley’s most valuable takeaways from the experience? [28:37]How did Harley most effectively play along with the Socratic method in law school, and how did he bypass the need to absorb 1,200 pages of case study? [33:18]How would Harley design a curriculum that would convey the lessons he learned in law school without the need to actually go to law school, and which texts might I add to the list of required reading? [37:38]I give one must-read fiction recommendation to the guy who’s just now reading a work of fiction for the first time in his life. [43:07]What does Harley’s job at Shopify as COO actually entail, and how does annual re-qualification work there? [43:49]Who is Tobi Lütke, and how did he and Harley meet? [45:47]How did Harley get licensing agreements that made him competetive — as a nobody law student selling t-shirts — with monolithic companies like Walmart? [53:26]How did Harley become the proprietor of Shopify Store 136? [56:06]What were the early days of investment fundraising for Shopify like? [59:44]How I met Tobi and Harley, and the piece of advice I gave them that they took to heart. [1:06:33]On formulating the Build a Business competition that differentiated Shopify from the competition — even if the projected price tag seemed a bit steep at the time. [1:08:06]How the winner of year one’s Build a Business competition helped rejuvinate a dying industry and accessorize a US president, and how year two was designed to differentiate Shopify even further. [1:15:32]What impact have the multi-pronged surprises of 2020 had on retail, and what does Harley see for the future of the industry as a result — particularly ecommerce — that others might be missing? [1:17:55]My own observations about ecommerce adaptations during 2020. [1:26:47]Harley explains how Shopify is “arming the rebels,” and why ecommerce is poised to help support local communities, small businesses, and independent brands — especially during tough times. [1:29:46]How are coaches used at Shopify, what makes some coaches more effective than others in the context of the company culture, and what does it mean when Harley says leadership has to “requalify” for their jobs every year? [1:31:38]What does time with a coach at Shopify typically look like, how does Shopify’s post-coach era compare with its pre-coach era, and what does Shopify’s “trust battery” ultimately empower? [1:38:55]Naming coaching as “one of the top three or four things” that he’s done, what are some of those other things that have moved the needle for Harley? [1:42:46]After trying several “flavors” of meditation that didn’t really work for him, what variety does Harley find effective? [1:44:49]On the importance of blocking out time for family and loved ones (and sometimes just yourself) when an otherwise busy schedule might inadvertendly elbow them out of the picture. [1:47:22]What contemporary C-suite executives does Harley most admire as examples, and what is his unique approach to seeking out the most valuable advice from mentors? [1:50:10]Why you never want to “entice” a busy, potential mentor-level person with these words: “May I take you to coffee and pick your brain?” (And some advice for how you might get better results.) [1:54:56]Influential and thought-provoking biographies. [1:56:33]“Nice guys finish last” is not a truism, and other parting thoughts. [2:00:09]
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Andrew GroveBen HorowitzNassim Nicholas TalebTobi LütkePhilip RimerLindsay TaubWarren BuffettPeter ThielChris SaccaSocratesLudwig WittgensteinPlatoWilliam Strunk Jr.E.B. WhiteWilliam ZinsserJohn McPheePaulo CoelhoFrank HerbertMother GooseLuc LevesqueSam ZaidAydin MirzaeeFiona McKeanBatmanCody DeBackerDaniel WeinandJohn PhillipsAydin SenkutAmish JaniGeoffrey MooreLarry PageBarack ObamaSeth GodinGary VaynerchukRichard BransonTony RobbinsMarie ForleoDebbie SterlingTina EisenbergBen FrancisCody FauserCam GreggDeb ThompsonJack KornfieldSharon SalzbergDavid GandelmanSarah BlondinBob IgerPhil KnightPatrick CollisonJohn CollisonBen SilbermannChase JarvisDaymond JohnLL Cool JCharlie HoehnJ.R. MoehringerAndre Agassi
December 8, 2020
Jerry Seinfeld — A Comedy Legend’s Systems, Routines, and Methods for Success (#485)

Pain is knowledge rushing in to fill a void with great speed.
— Jerry Seinfeld
Entertainment icon Jerry Seinfeld’s (@jerryseinfeld) comedy career took off after his first appearance on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson in 1981. Eight years later, he teamed up with fellow comedian Larry David to create what was to become the most successful comedy series in the history of television: Seinfeld. The show ran on NBC for nine seasons, winning numerous Emmy, Golden Globe, and People’s Choice awards, and was named the greatest television show of all time in 2009 by TV Guide and in 2012 was identified as the best sitcom ever in a 60 Minutes/Vanity Fair poll.
Seinfeld made his Netflix debut with the original stand-up special Jerry Before Seinfeld along with his Emmy-nominated and critically acclaimed web series Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, which has garnered over 100 million views and which The New York Times describes as “impressively complex and artful” and Variety calls “a game-changer.” His latest stand-up special, 23 Hours To Kill, was released by Netflix earlier this year.
He is also the author of Is This Anything?, which features his best work across five decades in comedy.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
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#485: Jerry Seinfeld — A Comedy Legend’s Systems, Routines, and Methods for Success
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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
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Want to hear another episode with a comedian who embraces the “just work” philosophy? Check out my conversation with Jerrod Carmichael, in which we discuss the benefits of being a creature of habit, common comedian mistakes, good versus great comedians, achieving zero fear, overcoming writer’s block, the wisdom of cliches, and much more.
#222: Jerrod Carmichael — Uber-Productivity and Dangerous Comedyhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/9403dea1-40de-42e9-a842-c6315f1fe0b2.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Jerry Seinfeld:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram
Is This Anything? by Jerry SeinfeldSeinfeld | Sony Pictures EntertainmentJerry Seinfeld | NetflixComedians in Cars Getting Coffee | Netflix23 Hours to Kill | NetflixThe Last Laugh: The World of Stand-Up Comics by Phil BergerWhat I’ve Learned (Best Of) | EsquireAlbert Brooks’ Famous School for Comedians | EsquireJerry Seinfeld Is Making Peace With Nothing: He’s ‘Post-Show Business’ | The New York TimesNeil Gaiman — The Interview I’ve Waited 20 Years to Do | The Tim Ferriss Show #366Jerry Seinfeld: Comedian, Innovator, Micromanager | Harvard Business ReviewWhy The Beatles Broke Up | Rolling StoneMy Cyborg Ear: How a Surgeon and Titanium Cured My Lifelong Deafness | GizmodoThe Black Stallion | Prime VideoTranscendental Meditation (TM)Body for Life: 12 Weeks to Mental and Physical Strength by Bill Phillips and Michael D’OrsoAn Officer and a Gentleman | Prime VideoLaird Hamilton, The King of Big Wave Surfing (Plus: Gabrielle Reece and Brian MacKenzie) | The Tim Ferriss Show #89Hugh Jackman on Best Decisions, Daily Routines, The 85% Rule, Favorite Exercises, Mind Training, and Much More | The Tim Ferriss Show #444High-Intensity Interval Training: How to Do HIIT Workouts for Weight Loss | SelfJerry Seinfeld’s First Appearance on Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show | NBCThe Comedy StoreJerry Seinfeld Recalls the Legendary Comedy Promoter Who Hated Him | Cheat SheetSeinfeld saying “Newman!” | SeinfeldWhy Is the Hudson River So Gross? Years of Pollution and Toxic Chemicals Make it Pretty Unsafe | DistractifyThe 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat Loss, Incredible Sex and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy FerrissBob Iger — CEO and Chairman of Disney | The Tim Ferriss Show #406How to Stop Procrastinating by Using the “Seinfeld Strategy” | James ClearGotham Comedy ClubIn the Heart of the Sea | Prime VideoIn the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex by Nathaniel PhilbrickThe Skinner Box or Operant Conditioning Chamber | Verywell MindSeriously Funny: The Rebel Comedians of the 1950s and 1960s by Gerald Nachman
SHOW NOTES
How did the book The Last Laugh: The World of Stand-Up Comics by Phil Berger enter Jerry’s life, and what made it so influential to him as a high-schooler who didn’t do much reading outside of comic books and magazines like Esquire? [07:35]How is Jerry’s writing technique similar to that of fiction writer and past guest Neil Gaiman, and how has it changed over time? What did Jerry learn very early on about the importance of writing in his chosen career as a stand-up comedian? [11:41]What’s the real wellspring of ideas that Jerry spins into comedy gold, what is typically the enemy of this wellspring, and what lifestyle choice did he make that almost ensures the well never runs dry? [18:42]To understand Jerry’s micromanagement approach to steering Seinfeld for nine seasons on network television (and why this turned out to be his limit), imagine it as a boat. [21:05]Did Jerry look toward any role models when deciding to step away from this massively successful creative endeavor on a high note? [24:51]Is the irritability Jerry credits as a wellspring of material actual dissatisfaction, or just more of a sensitivity to notice what others might overlook in the moment? [26:01]Jerry says there was a lack of discord among the cast of Seinfeld, which seems to be a rarity — especially for a comedy ensemble that lasts nine years together. To what does he attribute this lack of discord? [28:23]Why Jerry considers “systemize” a valuable part of his personal operating system, and how he’s trying to instill it in his own kids to apply it to their own projects. [32:17]What are the main lessons Jerry would try to convey if he taught a class on writing, and how does this tie in with the methods he used to get back in shape later in life? [36:23]On feedback and why Jerry never shares what he’s written for at least 24 hours. [38:43]Does Jerry solicit feedback from fellow comics when he’s finished a stand-up set? [41:23]If a reward is crucial for a writing session, does Jerry have a self-reward for completing a stand-up set? [42:29]As a beginning comedian, did Jerry have a long-term career plan? [43:17]What kind of audience feedback from a set would, for Jerry, beat the reward of an ice cream sundae? [44:23]Aside from writing sessions, what other routines does Jerry consider imperative to his well-being, and how often–and for what kind of duration–are they followed? [47:49]How learning to nurture your creative self is akin to parenting, and why Jerry believes that “pain is really knowledge rushing in to fill a void at great speed.” [52:27]Aside from his aforementioned daily routines, is there anything else that helps Jerry stave off or mitigate depressive episodes? Would he agree with other comics who fear seeking help for depression because it might rob them of the mechanism that gives them their best material? [53:56]Does Jerry have any favorite failures that set him up for later success? [56:24]What happened when Jerry went from writing three days a week to seven? [1:01:14]How many times did Jerry rehearse his set before appearing on The Tonight Show for the very first time? [1:03:00]Why does Jerry think Mitzi Shore, The Comedy Store owner, gave him such a hard time? [1:03:13]On self-sufficiency as a seemingly rare commodity in the world of comedy (except among those who are in it for the long haul), and how Jerry has maintained his constitution beyond his years through gamification. [1:06:40]Has Jerry applied this gamification to creative or professional projects? [1:11:14]Who comes to mind when Jerry hears the word “successful?” Maybe survival is the new success. [1:14:22]What would Jerry’s billboard say? [1:20:21]Parting thoughts. [1:21:51]
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Phil BergerCal FussmanAlbert BrooksNeil GaimanRocky MarcianoBill PhillipsLou Gossett, Jr.Johnny CarsonGeorge CarlinLaird HamiltonChristopher ColumbusHugh JackmanMitzi ShoreAlexis OhanianLindsey VonnSam KinisonBob IgerAdam WrightRon HowardJimmy FallonB.F. SkinnerWoody AllenLenny BruceJoan Rivers
December 3, 2020
Daniel Ek, CEO of Spotify — Habits, Systems and Mental Models for Top Performance (#484)

We believe that speed of iteration beats quality of iteration, which is why we’re not big on bureaucracy.
— Daniel Ek
Daniel Ek (@eldsjal) is the founder, chief executive officer, and chairman of the board of directors of Spotify, the world’s most popular audio streaming subscription service, with 320M users, including 144M subscribers, across 92 markets.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, Literati subscription book club, and Wealthfront automated investing. More on all three below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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#484: Daniel Ek, CEO of Spotify — Habits, Systems and Mental Models for Top Performancehttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/8fe1bb37-99ba-426f-893a-c17eeb455fa5.mp3Download
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Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear an episode that can help clarify how Shopify and Spotify differ in leadership? Check out my conversation with Shopify founder and CEO Tobi Lütke, in which we discuss feedback as a gift, fostering a growth mindset, the impact of dyslexia on Tobi’s reading list and coding endeavors, understanding “the next box,” why the business world should be keeping a close eye on the video game industry, Enneagrams, and much more.
#359: Tobi Lütke — From Snowboard Shop to Billion-Dollar Companyhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/b4c1d67d-0bb9-47bf-b4a7-2324447e17bd.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Daniel Ek:
Eldsjäl Translation in English | bab.laSaudade: An Untranslatable, Undeniably Potent Word | NPRLagom Translation in English | bab.laSwedes Living In the US Share Their Most Memorable Cultural Clashes | Swedes in the StatesQuote by George Bernard Shaw: “The Reasonable Man Adapts Himself to the World…” | GoodreadsThe American-Western European Values Gap | Pew Research CenterWhat Is Montessori Education? | American Montessori SocietyTribe of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Tim FerrissSpotify CEO Daniel Ek’s 10 Favorite Books | VultureBlack Box Thinking: The Surprising Truth About Success by Matthew SyedPoor Charlie’s Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger Edited by Ed WexlerThe Alchemist: A Fable About Following Your Dream by Paulo CoelhoDaniel Ek | The Observer EffectY CombinatorMaker’s Schedule, Manager’s Schedule | Paul GrahamWhat Is a Knowledge Worker and How Is Knowledge Work Changing? | PanoptoExclusive: Spotify CEO Daniel Ek on Apple, Facebook, Netflix–and the Future | Fast CompanyTours of Duty: How to Organize Modern Employment | Reid Hoffman, LinkedInShopifyAtlassianLeonardo da Vinci by Walter IsaacsonA Life of Picasso: The Prodigy: 1881-1906 (Vol. 1) by John RichardsonA Life of Picasso: The Cubist Rebel: 1907-1916 (Vol. 2) by John RichardsonA Life of Picasso: The Triumphant Years, 1917-1932 (Vol. 3) by John RichardsonA Brief History of the Michelin Star Rating | EscoffierThe Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers by Ben HorowitzElon Musk AMA | RedditBrilliant MindsInternet in Sweden | WikipediaBroadband Blues | The Economist
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
What’s the origin story of Daniel’s Twitter handle, @eldsjal?In what context does the Swedish word “lagom” (which means something akin to just right) get used often at Spotify–a company immersed in both Swedish and American culture?Does Daniel think he was born eldsjäl, or was it something he picked up along the way?As a parent, does Daniel favor raising his children with the guaranteed social safety net his own European upbringing provided–which allowed him the freedom to tinker without worrying about food and shelter–or a more hands-off American approach that necessitates some level of success in order to survive? Is there a happy medium?As someone who reads “north of 60 or 70 books” per year, what is it about Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking and Paulo Coelho’s The Alchemist that makes them particularly memorable and influential to Daniel?There was a time when Daniel let his health fall by the wayside and he weighed 40 or 50 pounds more than he does today. What helped him turn things around and get back to a more ideal weight?While Daniel hasn’t been one to shy away from 100-hour workweeks when necessary, one of his defining characteristics is knowing how to prioritize focus. What impact does this have on his typical schedule?How does Daniel approach the concept of roles in a given meeting, and why is it important to be clear on those roles beforehand?What do Daniel’s annual reviews with his immediate leadership team look like, and how do they address the rapid pace of change Spotify has experienced thus far and expects to continue over the years to come?As CEO, what does Daniel view as the most crucial components of his job, and what allows him to perform them optimally?Spotify and Shopify are two completely different entities, and so are their CEOs. How does Daniel compare and contrast his company, culture, and leadership with that of our mutual friend, Shopify’s Tobi Lütke?Are there any biographies that stand out for Daniel?Favorite books on management.Daniel shares some tough-to-hear feedback he got from someone on his leadership team and what it taught him about being mindful of the value he’s adding (or not adding) to his interactions.Rather than defining static jobs within Spotify, the company prefers to assign missions to staff that last about two years. What have Daniel’s two-year missions entailed?How does Daniel ensure he stays on target when he’s working to fulfill a mission? How has his process adapted over time?What does Daniel mean when he says: “We believe that speed of iteration beats quality of iteration?”What is Brilliant Minds, and how did it start?How and why Daniel dedicates a significant portion of his wealth to “moonshots” across Europe.What would Daniel’s billboard say?Parting thoughts.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
George Bernard ShawMatthew SyedCharlie MungerPaulo CoelhoJerry SeinfeldPaul GrahamReid HoffmanPeter ThielElon MuskMike Cannon-BrookesWalter IsaacsonLeonardo da VinciPablo PicassoAndy GroveBen HorowitzMatthew McConaugheyMark ZuckerbergSteve JobsAsh PournouriAviciiAlexander ‘The Mauler’ Gustafsson
Daniel Ek, CEO of Spotify — The Art of Seeing Around Corners, Two-Year Missions, Top Books, and the Essence of Fire Soul (#484)

We believe that speed of iteration beats quality of iteration, which is why we’re not big on bureaucracy.
— Daniel Ek
Daniel Ek (@eldsjal) is the founder, chief executive officer, and chairman of the board of directors of Spotify, the world’s most popular audio streaming subscription service, with 320M users, including 144M subscribers, across 92 markets.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations, Literati subscription book club, and Wealthfront automated investing. More on all three below.

[image error]Listen onSpotify
[image error]Listen onOvercast
#484: Daniel Ek, CEO of Spotify — The Art of Seeing Around Corners, Two-Year Missions, Top Books, and the Essence of Fire Soul
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/8fe1bb37-99ba-426f-893a-c17eeb455fa5.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by Headspace! Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, Headspace can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute S.O.S. meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, Headspace even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.
Go to Headspace.com/Tim for a FREE one-month trial with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.
This episode is brought to you by Literati! I absolutely love what they’re doing, and I’ve been waiting for someone to really pull it off. Literati is a subscription book club that sends a beautiful book to your door each month, hand-picked by world-renowned authors and leaders. Every month, you’ll get one paperback or hardcover book that’s specific to your Luminary’s club. Like Malala Yousafzai’s club, Fearless. Or Stephen Curry’s club, Underrated. These are life-changing books, personally picked by awe-inspiring people.
Get the books that the world’s most fascinating minds are reading, every month. And you can cancel anytime. Go to Literati.com/Tim to find your perfect book club and sign up today.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear an episode that can help clarify how Shopify and Spotify differ in leadership? Check out my conversation with Shopify founder and CEO Tobi Lütke, in which we discuss feedback as a gift, fostering a growth mindset, the impact of dyslexia on Tobi’s reading list and coding endeavors, understanding “the next box,” why the business world should be keeping a close eye on the video game industry, Enneagrams, and much more.
#359: Tobi Lütke — From Snowboard Shop to Billion-Dollar Companyhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/b4c1d67d-0bb9-47bf-b4a7-2324447e17bd.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Daniel Ek:
Eldsjäl Translation in English | bab.laSaudade: An Untranslatable, Undeniably Potent Word | NPRLagom Translation in English | bab.laSwedes Living In the US Share Their Most Memorable Cultural Clashes | Swedes in the StatesQuote by George Bernard Shaw: “The Reasonable Man Adapts Himself to the World…” | GoodreadsThe American-Western European Values Gap | Pew Research CenterWhat Is Montessori Education? | American Montessori SocietyTribe of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Tim FerrissSpotify CEO Daniel Ek’s 10 Favorite Books | VultureBlack Box Thinking: The Surprising Truth About Success by Matthew SyedPoor Charlie’s Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger Edited by Ed WexlerThe Alchemist: A Fable About Following Your Dream by Paulo CoelhoDaniel Ek | The Observer EffectY CombinatorMaker’s Schedule, Manager’s Schedule | Paul GrahamWhat Is a Knowledge Worker and How Is Knowledge Work Changing? | PanoptoExclusive: Spotify CEO Daniel Ek on Apple, Facebook, Netflix–and the Future | Fast CompanyTours of Duty: How to Organize Modern Employment | Reid Hoffman, LinkedInShopifyAtlassianLeonardo da Vinci by Walter IsaacsonA Life of Picasso: The Prodigy: 1881-1906 (Vol. 1) by John RichardsonA Life of Picasso: The Cubist Rebel: 1907-1916 (Vol. 2) by John RichardsonA Life of Picasso: The Triumphant Years, 1917-1932 (Vol. 3) by John RichardsonA Brief History of the Michelin Star Rating | EscoffierThe Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers by Ben HorowitzElon Musk AMA | RedditBrilliant MindsInternet in Sweden | WikipediaBroadband Blues | The Economist
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
What’s the origin story of Daniel’s Twitter handle, @eldsjal?In what context does the Swedish word “lagom” (which means something akin to just right) get used often at Spotify–a company immersed in both Swedish and American culture?Does Daniel think he was born eldsjäl, or was it something he picked up along the way?As a parent, does Daniel favor raising his children with the guaranteed social safety net his own European upbringing provided–which allowed him the freedom to tinker without worrying about food and shelter–or a more hands-off American approach that necessitates some level of success in order to survive? Is there a happy medium?As someone who reads “north of 60 or 70 books” per year, what is it about Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking and Paulo Coelho’s The Alchemist that makes them particularly memorable and influential to Daniel?There was a time when Daniel let his health fall by the wayside and he weighed 40 or 50 pounds more than he does today. What helped him turn things around and get back to a more ideal weight?While Daniel hasn’t been one to shy away from 100-hour workweeks when necessary, one of his defining characteristics is knowing how to prioritize focus. What impact does this have on his typical schedule?How does Daniel approach the concept of roles in a given meeting, and why is it important to be clear on those roles beforehand?What do Daniel’s annual reviews with his immediate leadership team look like, and how do they address the rapid pace of change Spotify has experienced thus far and expects to continue over the years to come?As CEO, what does Daniel view as the most crucial components of his job, and what allows him to perform them optimally?Spotify and Shopify are two completely different entities, and so are their CEOs. How does Daniel compare and contrast his company, culture, and leadership with that of our mutual friend, Shopify’s Tobi Lütke?Are there any biographies that stand out for Daniel?Favorite books on management.Daniel shares some tough-to-hear feedback he got from someone on his leadership team and what it taught him about being mindful of the value he’s adding (or not adding) to his interactions.Rather than defining static jobs within Spotify, the company prefers to assign missions to staff that last about two years. What have Daniel’s two-year missions entailed?How does Daniel ensure he stays on target when he’s working to fulfill a mission? How has his process adapted over time?What does Daniel mean when he says: “We believe that speed of iteration beats quality of iteration?”What is Brilliant Minds, and how did it start?How and why Daniel dedicates a significant portion of his wealth to “moonshots” across Europe.What would Daniel’s billboard say?Parting thoughts.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
George Bernard ShawMatthew SyedCharlie MungerPaulo CoelhoJerry SeinfeldPaul GrahamReid HoffmanPeter ThielElon MuskMike Cannon-BrookesWalter IsaacsonLeonardo da VinciPablo PicassoAndy GroveBen HorowitzMatthew McConaugheyMark ZuckerbergSteve JobsAsh PournouriAviciiAlexander ‘The Mauler’ Gustafsson
November 30, 2020
Jim Collins on The Value of Small Gestures, Unseen Sources of Power, and More (#483)

The most treasured gifts in the world are kind words spontaneously tendered.
— Jim Collins
Jim Collins (jimcollins.com) is a student and teacher of what makes great companies tick and a Socratic advisor to leaders in the business and social sectors. Having invested more than a quarter-century in rigorous research, he has authored or co-authored six books that have sold in total more than 10 million copies worldwide. They include Good to Great, the #1 bestseller that examines why some companies make the leap to superior results, and its companion work Good to Great and the Social Sectors; the enduring classic Built to Last, which explores how some leaders build companies that remain visionary for generations; How the Mighty Fall, which delves into how once-great companies can self-destruct; and Great by Choice, which is about thriving in chaos—why some do and others don’t.
And now he’s updating his debut book, Beyond Entrepreneurship, for the twenty-first century. Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0: Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company is now available.
Please enjoy this round two with Jim Collins! (And if you haven’t already, make sure to check out round one here.)
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by GiveWell.org, producers of the world’s top research on charities and effective giving, Tonal smart home gym, and Wealthfront automated investing. More on all three below.
The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

[image error]Listen onSpotify
[image error]Listen onOvercast
#483: Jim Collins — The Return of a Reclusive Polymathhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/b72995f4-f349-4dc3-a269-ecc7cf99c262.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by Tonal! Tonal is the world’s most intelligent home gym and personal trainer. It is precision engineered and designed to be the world’s most advanced strength studio. Tonal uses breakthrough technology—like adaptive digital weights and A.I. learning—together with the best experts in resistance training so you get stronger, faster. Every program is personalized to your body using A.I., and smart features check your form in real time, just like a personal trainer.
Try Tonal , the world’s smartest home gym, for 30 days in your home, and if you don’t love it, you can return it for a full refund. For a limited time, visit Tonal.com for $250 off your Tonal purchase!
This episode is brought to you by GiveWell.org! For over ten years, GiveWell.org has helped donors find the charities and projects that save and improve lives most per dollar. Here’s how: GiveWell dedicates over twenty thousand hours a year to researching charitable organizations and hand-picks a few of the highest-impact, evidence-backed charities. Since 2010, GiveWell has helped over 50,000 donors direct over 500 million dollars to the most effective charities. Most importantly, these donations will save over 75,000 lives and improve the lives of millions more.
This year, support the charities that save and improve lives most, with GiveWell. Any of my listeners who become new GiveWell donors will have their first donation matched up to $250 when you go to GiveWell.org/Tim and select “PODCAST” and “Tim Ferriss” at checkout.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear Jim’s first appearance on this show? Check out our conversation in which we discuss genuine humility versus false humility, discipline in service of creativity, maximizing those hours of creativity with a spreadsheet, the cognitive benefits of a well-timed nap, “who luck,” doom loops and flywheels, and much more.
#361: Jim Collins — A Rare Interview with a Reclusive Polymathhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/5ba5c5e9-612a-4670-8fd2-e10b8832d3fc.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Jim Collins:
BE 2.0 (Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0): Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company by Jim Collins and William LazierJim Collins — A Rare Interview with a Reclusive Polymath | The Tim Ferriss Show 361Turning the Flywheel: A Monograph to Accompany Good to Great by Jim CollinsGood to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim CollinsGood to Great and the Social Sectors: Why Business Thinking is Not the Answer by Jim CollinsBuilt to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies by Jim Collins and Jerry I. PorrasHow The Mighty Fall: And Why Some Companies Never Give In by Jim CollinsGreat by Choice: Uncertainty, Chaos, and Luck — Why Some Thrive Despite Them All by Jim Collins and Morten T. HansenThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissEd Zschau — The Polymath Professor Who Changed My Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #380Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs | Simply PsychologyBeethoven: Symphony No. 3 | Music AppreciationTim O’Reilly – The Trend Spotter | The Tim Ferriss Show #278The Prayer-Poems of Mary Oliver | Eureka StreetPraying by Mary Oliver | Becoming FlameThe White Peacock by D.H. LawrenceThe Truth About The Left Brain / Right Brain Relationship | NPRThe Second World War by Winston S. ChurchillThe Last Lion Box Set: Winston Spencer Churchill, 1874-1965 by William Manchester and Paul ReidGoodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War by William ManchesterThe Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert A. CaroThe Years of Lyndon Johnson by Robert A. CaroWashington: A Life by Ron ChernowMotherless Brooklyn | Prime VideoUnderstanding the Brain | The Great CoursesQuestions of Value | The Great CoursesLincoln on Battlefield of Antietam | J. Paul Getty MuseumFor Jim Collins, No Question Is Too Big | The New York TimesTwelve Questions | Jim CollinsGreen Bay PackersWhat is a Flywheel? | WikipediaThe Flywheel Effect | Jim CollinsThe Hedgehog Concept | Jim CollinsLuck Is Just the Spark for Business Giants | The New York TimesPeninsula Creamery Dairy Store & GrillOn the Shortness of Life by SenecaMemorial Church | Stanford LiveUnited States Military Academy West PointLeadership Lessons from West Point | Jim CollinsPyrrhic Victory: Winning the Battle, Losing the War | Farnam StreetThe Re-Education of Jim Collins | Inc.comCadet Breaks 20-Year Indoor Obstacle Course Test (IOCT) Record | West PointVice Admiral James Bond Stockdale: Vietnam War Hero and Indomitable Spirit at the Hanoi Hilton | HistoryNetThe Stockdale Paradox | Jim CollinsConcept: Level 5 Leadership | Jim CollinsThe Jim Collins Life Improvement Technique You Can Try Right Now | Achievement OrientedJim Collins’s Final Secret: How to Give Yourself Two Mornings in One | August Birch, MediumUse Notes on your iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch | Apple SupportThe Socratic Method: What it is and How to Use it in the Classroom | Tomorrow’s Professor Postings, StanfordHow Do You Do “Stop Doing?” | Jim CollinsConcepts Map | Jim CollinsGenius of the AND | Jim CollinsClock Building, Not Time Telling | Jim CollinsProductive Paranoia | Jim CollinsFire Bullets, Then Cannonballs | Jim CollinsPreserve the Core/Stimulate Progress | Jim CollinsBig Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) | Jim Collins20-Mile March | Jim CollinsPatagonia Outdoor Clothing & GearSerenity Crack, Yosemite Valley | SuperTopoThe 1972 Chouinard Catalog | ClimbAZ.comLet My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvon ChouinardSpanish Paprika Mackerel | Patagonia ProvisionsTelecareWriter John McPhee Explains His ‘Old-Man Project’ | NPR
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
Jim is well-known for asking good questions, so he was wondering: in what ways has my former entrepreneurship professor Ed Zschau been such a major influence in my life, and what has his colorful story taught me about the potential to really accelerate after age 60?After recently re-reading The 4-Hour Workweek, Jim wonders what keeps me going these days, and what’s changed for me in the 15 years since that book was written?What’s the point allocation between dark force motivations and light force motivations?Since Jim and I were both admitted into college by Dean Fred Hargadon, why does he think I got into Princeton, and what nuggets of wisdom did Dean Fred impart to him?Why you should never hesitate to reach out to mentors and people who have been instrumental in shaping your life.As someone who grew up with a fondness for biographies, which ones have been particularly influential to Jim–as examples of paths to follow as well as avoid? What does he find compelling about arcs that go in either direction?As someone I consider to be a craftsman of questions, what type of questions has Jim found to be effective at pulling their weight, and how does he arrive at them? Perhaps most important: how does he set the conditions to ensure their lessons stick?Who is Bill Lazier, and why is he worth having a conversation about? What life lessons has Jim taken away from his time with Bill–particularly regarding trust and, of all things, enjoying the butter on your waffles even if it kills you?Comparing and contrasting West Point Cadets with MBA students.What is the Stockdale Paradox, and how did it come about?We revisit Jim’s creativity-tracking spreadsheet from our last conversation and examine the role volatility plays in the daily figures, along with the patterns that can be discerned from these figures over time.As mere mortals, most of us all fall into the trap of comparing our own processes and accomplishments with those of others. But to whom do people as unique as Jim and one of his mentors–Stanford professor Michael Ray–compare themselves, and how do they break free from this counterproductive practice?What is the 20-Minute Rule?What Jim’s preparation mode looks like in practice, and how he keeps tabs on his to-dos, stop-dos, and prep-dos without overly complicating the process.What does Jim’s stop-do list look like?How and why Jim compiled 30 years of work into a consolidated map of concepts.To Jim, are there any companies that exemplify these concepts in action?The value of clock building over time telling.Will the entrepreneur become the builder? Jim’s thoughts on an important choice all successful founders will eventually have to make.Jim talks about his first encounter with Rochelle Myers, who he thinks of as “a cross between Socrates and Yoda,” and the important questions she taught him to ask himself.What would you stop doing if you only had a short time to live?What would Jim’s billboard say?Parting thoughts on mentors, John McPhee’s Old Man Project, and Jim’s next big question.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Ed ZschauPeter DruckerJohn McPheeLudwig van BeethovenTim O’ReillyMary OliverD.H. LawrenceJoanne ErnstFred HargadonWinston ChurchillWilliam ManchesterRobert CaroLord John Dalberg-ActonRobert MosesLyndon B. JohnsonMichelangeloRon ChernowGeorge WashingtonLucius Quinctius CincinnatusEdward NortonAlec BaldwinJeanette NordenPatrick GrimAbraham LincolnSteve JobsBill LazierSocratesSenecaJim StockdaleMichael RayIrv GrousbeckYvon ChouinardMadonnaRochelle MyersJerry PorrasWalt DisneyDavid PackardTom Watson, Sr. George RathmannHerb KelleherR.W. JohnsonWillard MarriottPaul GalvinAnne BakarBill HewlettJeff BezosBill GatesYodaCharles MungerNancy MungerKatharine GrahamMario Andretti
Jim Collins — The Return of a Reclusive Polymath (#483)

The most treasured gifts in the world are kind words spontaneously tendered.
— Jim Collins
Jim Collins (jimcollins.com) is a student and teacher of what makes great companies tick and a Socratic advisor to leaders in the business and social sectors. Having invested more than a quarter-century in rigorous research, he has authored or co-authored six books that have sold in total more than 10 million copies worldwide. They include Good to Great, the #1 bestseller that examines why some companies make the leap to superior results, and its companion work Good to Great and the Social Sectors; the enduring classic Built to Last, which explores how some leaders build companies that remain visionary for generations; How the Mighty Fall, which delves into how once-great companies can self-destruct; and Great by Choice, which is about thriving in chaos—why some do and others don’t.
And now he’s updating his debut book, Beyond Entrepreneurship, for the 21st century. Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0: Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company is now available.
Please enjoy this round two with Jim Collins! (And if you haven’t already, make sure to check out round one here.)
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by GiveWell.org world’s top research on charities and effective giving, Tonal smart home gym, and Wealthfront automated investing. More on all three below.

[image error]Listen onSpotify
[image error]Listen onOvercast
#483: Jim Collins — The Return of a Reclusive Polymath
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/b72995f4-f349-4dc3-a269-ecc7cf99c262.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by Tonal! Tonal is the world’s most intelligent home gym and personal trainer. It is precision engineered and designed to be the world’s most advanced strength studio. Tonal uses breakthrough technology—like adaptive digital weights and A.I. learning—together with the best experts in resistance training so you get stronger, faster. Every program is personalized to your body using A.I., and smart features check your form in real time, just like a personal trainer.
Try Tonal , the world’s smartest home gym, for 30 days in your home, and if you don’t love it, you can return it for a full refund. For a limited time, visit Tonal.com for $250 off your Tonal purchase!
This episode is brought to you by GiveWell.org! For over ten years GiveWell.org has helped donors find the charities and projects that save and improve lives most per dollar. Here’s how: GiveWell dedicates over twenty thousand hours a year to researching charitable organizations and hand-picks a few of the highest-impact, evidence-backed charities. Since 2010, GiveWell has helped over 50,000 donors direct over 500 million dollars to the most effective charities. Most importantly, these donations will save over 75,000 lives and improve the lives of millions more.
This year, support the charities that save and improve lives most, with GiveWell. Any of my listeners who become new GiveWell donors will have their first donation matched up to $250 when you go to GiveWell dot org/Tim and select “PODCAST” and “Tim Ferriss” at checkout.
This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost.
Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear Jim’s first appearance on this show? Check out our conversation in which we discuss genuine humility versus false humility, discipline in service of creativity, maximizing those hours of creativity with a spreadsheet, the cognitive benefits of a well-timed nap, “who luck,” doom loops and flywheels, and much more.
#361: Jim Collins — A Rare Interview with a Reclusive Polymathhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/5ba5c5e9-612a-4670-8fd2-e10b8832d3fc.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Jim Collins:
BE 2.0 (Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0): Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company by Jim Collins and William LazierJim Collins — A Rare Interview with a Reclusive Polymath | The Tim Ferriss Show 361Turning the Flywheel: A Monograph to Accompany Good to Great by Jim CollinsGood to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don’t by Jim CollinsGood to Great and the Social Sectors: Why Business Thinking is Not the Answer by Jim CollinsBuilt to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies by Jim Collins and Jerry I. PorrasHow The Mighty Fall: And Why Some Companies Never Give In by Jim CollinsGreat by Choice: Uncertainty, Chaos, and Luck — Why Some Thrive Despite Them All by Jim Collins and Morten T. HansenThe 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy FerrissEd Zschau — The Polymath Professor Who Changed My Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #380Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs | Simply PsychologyBeethoven: Symphony No. 3 | Music AppreciationTim O’Reilly – The Trend Spotter | The Tim Ferriss Show #278The Prayer-Poems of Mary Oliver | Eureka StreetPraying by Mary Oliver | Becoming FlameThe White Peacock by D.H. LawrenceThe Truth About The Left Brain / Right Brain Relationship | NPRThe Second World War by Winston S. ChurchillThe Last Lion Box Set: Winston Spencer Churchill, 1874-1965 by William Manchester and Paul ReidGoodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War by William ManchesterThe Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert A. CaroThe Years of Lyndon Johnson by Robert A. CaroWashington: A Life by Ron ChernowMotherless Brooklyn | Prime VideoUnderstanding the Brain | The Great CoursesQuestions of Value | The Great CoursesLincoln on Battlefield of Antietam | J. Paul Getty MuseumFor Jim Collins, No Question Is Too Big | The New York TimesTwelve Questions | Jim CollinsGreen Bay PackersWhat is a Flywheel? | WikipediaThe Flywheel Effect | Jim CollinsThe Hedgehog Concept | Jim CollinsLuck Is Just the Spark for Business Giants | The New York TimesPeninsula Creamery Dairy Store & GrillOn the Shortness of Life by SenecaMemorial Church | Stanford LiveUnited States Military Academy West PointLeadership Lessons from West Point | Jim CollinsPyrrhic Victory: Winning the Battle, Losing the War | Farnam StreetThe Re-Education of Jim Collins | Inc.comCadet Breaks 20-Year Indoor Obstacle Course Test (IOCT) Record | West PointVice Admiral James Bond Stockdale: Vietnam War Hero and Indomitable Spirit at the Hanoi Hilton | HistoryNetThe Stockdale Paradox | Jim CollinsConcept: Level 5 Leadership | Jim CollinsThe Jim Collins Life Improvement Technique You Can Try Right Now | Achievement OrientedJim Collins’s Final Secret: How to Give Yourself Two Mornings in One | August Birch, MediumUse Notes on your iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch | Apple SupportThe Socratic Method: What it is and How to Use it in the Classroom | Tomorrow’s Professor Postings, StanfordHow Do You Do “Stop Doing?” | Jim CollinsConcepts Map | Jim CollinsGenius of the AND | Jim CollinsClock Building, Not Time Telling | Jim CollinsProductive Paranoia | Jim CollinsFire Bullets, Then Cannonballs | Jim CollinsPreserve the Core/Stimulate Progress | Jim CollinsBig Hairy Audacious Goal (BHAG) | Jim Collins20-Mile March | Jim CollinsPatagonia Outdoor Clothing & GearSerenity Crack, Yosemite Valley | SuperTopoThe 1972 Chouinard Catalog | ClimbAZ.comLet My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvon ChouinardSpanish Paprika Mackerel | Patagonia ProvisionsTelecareWriter John McPhee Explains His ‘Old-Man Project’ | NPR
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
Jim is well-known for asking good questions, so he was wondering: in what ways has my former entrepreneurship professor Ed Zschau been such a major influence in my life, and what has his colorful story taught me about the potential to really accelerate after age 60?After recently re-reading The 4-Hour Workweek, Jim wonders what keeps me going these days, and what’s changed for me in the 15 years since that book was written?What’s the point allocation between dark force motivations and light force motivations?Since Jim and I were both admitted into college by Dean Fred Hargadon, why does he think I got into Princeton, and what nuggets of wisdom did Dean Fred impart to him?Why you should never hesitate to reach out to mentors and people who have been instrumental in shaping your life.As someone who grew up with a fondness for biographies, which ones have been particularly influential to Jim–as examples of paths to follow as well as avoid? What does he find compelling about arcs that go in either direction?As someone I consider to be a craftsman of questions, what type of questions has Jim found to be effective at pulling their weight, and how does he arrive at them? Perhaps most important: how does he set the conditions to ensure their lessons stick?Who is Bill Lazier, and why is he worth having a conversation about? What life lessons has Jim taken away from his time with Bill–particularly regarding trust and, of all things, enjoying the butter on your waffles even if it kills you?Comparing and contrasting West Point Cadets with MBA students.What is the Stockdale Paradox, and how did it come about?We revisit Jim’s creativity-tracking spreadsheet from our last conversation and examine the role volatility plays in the daily figures, along with the patterns that can be discerned from these figures over time.As mere mortals, most of us all fall into the trap of comparing our own processes and accomplishments with those of others. But to whom do people as unique as Jim and one of his mentors–Stanford professor Michael Ray–compare themselves, and how do they break free from this counterproductive practice?What is the 20-Minute Rule?What Jim’s preparation mode looks like in practice, and how he keeps tabs on his to-dos, stop-dos, and prep-dos without overly complicating the process.What does Jim’s stop-do list look like?How and why Jim compiled 30 years of work into a consolidated map of concepts.To Jim, are there any companies that exemplify these concepts in action?The value of clock building over time telling.Will the entrepreneur become the builder? Jim’s thoughts on an important choice all successful founders will eventually have to make.Jim talks about his first encounter with Rochelle Myers, who he thinks of as “a cross between Socrates and Yoda,” and the important questions she taught him to ask himself.What would you stop doing if you only had a short time to live?What would Jim’s billboard say?Parting thoughts on mentors, John McPhee’s Old Man Project, and Jim’s next big question.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Ed ZschauPeter DruckerJohn McPheeLudwig van BeethovenTim O’ReillyMary OliverD.H. LawrenceJoanne ErnstFred HargadonWinston ChurchillWilliam ManchesterRobert CaroLord John Dalberg-ActonRobert MosesLyndon B. JohnsonMichelangeloRon ChernowGeorge WashingtonLucius Quinctius CincinnatusEdward NortonAlec BaldwinJeanette NordenPatrick GrimAbraham LincolnSteve JobsBill LazierSocratesSenecaJim StockdaleMichael RayIrv GrousbeckYvon ChouinardMadonnaRochelle MyersJerry PorrasWalt DisneyDavid PackardTom Watson, Sr. George RathmannHerb KelleherR.W. JohnsonWillard MarriottPaul GalvinAnne BakarBill HewlettJeff BezosBill GatesYodaCharles MungerNancy MungerKatharine GrahamMario Andretti
November 24, 2020
Steven Rinella — A Short Introduction to True Wilderness Skills and Survival (#482)

By being prepared, you do away with the nagging sense in the back of your head of, ‘What would I do if?’ It just frees you up. I want people to have that liberated, swaggering feeling outside.
— Steven Rinella
Steven Rinella (@MeatEater, @StevenRinella) is the host of the Netflix Originals series MeatEater and The MeatEater Podcast. He’s also the author of seven books dealing with wildlife, conservation, hunting, fishing, and wild foods, including his newest, The MeatEater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
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#482: Steven Rinella — A Short Introduction to True Wilderness Skills and Survival
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/0398014f-7251-4fe9-96a1-ac8d5b09e685.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system.
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This episode is brought to you by 99designs, the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together to create designs they love. Its creative process has become the go-to solution for businesses, agencies, and individuals, and I have used it for years to help with display advertising and illustrations and to rapid-prototype the cover for The Tao of Seneca. Whether your business needs a logo, website design, business card, or anything you can imagine, check out 99designs.
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Kelly created a program called Virtual Mobility Coach. It’s like carrying a virtual Kelly Starrett in your pocket. Every day, Virtual Mobility Coach gives you guided mobility videos. It walks you step-by-step through Kelly’s proven techniques to relieve pain and improve your range of motion. Right now, listeners of this podcast can try Virtual Mobility Coach totally risk-free for two weeks without paying a penny. And after that, you can get 10% off for life. Just go to TheReadyState.com/Tim and use code TIM10 at checkout. Relieve pain, recover faster, and improve your performance in the gym with The Ready State Virtual Mobility Coach.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear Steven’s round one episode? Listen to this conversation in which we discuss how Steven got me to overcome my lifetime aversion to hunting, why the conservation-minded non-hunting crowd should care about the decline in hunting and fishing license sales in the United States, the politics of reintroducing predator species to popular hunting grounds, close encounters of the grizzly kind, and much more.
#470: Steven Rinella on Hunting (and Why You Should Care), Reconnecting with Nature, Favorite Trips, and Morehttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/efe0c1da-4355-4b8b-9cbe-ea5854c9c27d.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Steven Rinella:
Website | Facebook | Instagram: @MeatEater / @StevenRinella
The MeatEater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival by Steven Rinella (December 2020)MeatEater | NetflixThe MeatEater PodcastSteven Rinella on Hunting (and Why You Should Care), Reconnecting with Nature, Favorite Trips, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #470Extreme Cold and the Perplexing Case of Paradoxical Undressing | Digital DyingThe Differences Between Mammoths & Elephants | SciencingWilderness Survival Rules of 3: Air, Shelter, Water, & Food | Backcountry ChroniclesNRS Pick-of-Life Ice Awls | AmazonComing into the Country by John McPheeAnnals of the Former World by John McPheeThe Geology of Mount Everest | LiveAboutGPS Map Apps for Hunters and Off-Road Enthusiasts | onXinReach Satellite Communication | GarminHiking Trail Maps, Hunting Units, 4×4 Offroad App | Gaia GPSGoogle EarthDEET Is the Most Effective Bug Spray. But Is It Safe? | TimeTen Years Ago, Kim Family Endured Wilderness Tragedy | The News-ReviewGarmin Earthmate GPS Navigation AppIs a Bowie Knife a Good Survival Knife: Everything You Need to Know. | Rogue SurvivalOutdoor Research Backcountry Organizer | AmazonDyneemaHow to Make a Fire with Cotton Balls and Vaseline | The OregonianHow Volcanic Ash Can Bring Down an Airplane | The VergeThere’s No Place As Beautiful As The Frank Church Wilderness In Idaho | Only In Your StateMad Max | Prime VideoThe Road by Cormac McCarthyHow To Start A Fire With A Bow Drill: The Art of Fire | Penguin Books UKSynergy Series Organizer Bags | FHF GearLeatherman Wave Plus Multitool | AmazonBenchmade Bugout 535 EDC Manual Open Folding Knife | AmazonSplinter Tweezers | AmazonRambo: First Blood | Prime VideoConfiscated Items at Ketchikan Airport | Steven Rinella, InstagramNalgene Water Bottles | AmazonMSR Dromedary Bag Water Reservoir, 6-Liter | AmazonWater Purification Tablets (20 Pack) Chlorine Dioxide | AquamiraSteripen | KatadynWater Pump Filters | KatadynSwiss Safe Emergency Mylar Thermal Blankets (4-Pack) | AmazonF-150 Truck | FordTruck Bed Tool Boxes & Organizers and Cargo Van Storage System | Decked10 Reasons to Add Glow Sticks to Your Survival Kit | Backdoor SurvivalUS GI Military Original Issue E-Tool | Amazon10 Best Alcohol Stoves for Ultralight Backpacking | GreenbellyGhillie Suits | AmazonA Love Affair with Freeze-Dried Food | Steven Rinella, Outside OnlineOFD Foods (Formerly Oregon Freeze Dry)Freeze Dried Food | Mountain HouseBackpacking Food, Meals for Adventuring | Heather’s ChoicePeak RefuelDehydrated Vs. Freeze Dried Food: What’s Best? | Off the Grid NewsLong-Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) | Military WikiAn Introduction to the Maillard Reaction: The Science of Browning, Aroma, and Flavor | Serious EatsA Space-Age Food Product Cultivated by the Incas | The New York TimesChildren of Llullaillaco | WikipediaMuseum of High Altitude Archaeology | Salta, ArgentinaThe Ring | Prime VideoCrampons | WikipediaThe Macushi: The Guyana Tribe in Search of a Lost Identity | BBC News
SHOW NOTES
Survival fantasy versus survival reality and common misperceptions. [06:07]What is paradoxical undressing, and is it as risque as it sounds? [08:42]What are some of the ways you can buy yourself a margin of safety when you’re facing the wilderness and its elements? [15:20]Practical uses for onX, inReach, and other GPS systems when you need to navigate your way into and out of the middle of nowhere, make emergency contact with the outside world, or just meander around a new neighborhood without accidentally trespassing on someone’s property. [17:21]Essentials on which Steven relies–in a variety of circumstances–that less seasoned adventurers might forget (or just not know) to pack. [30:06]What is Steven’s preferred multi-tool? [44:35]Recommendations for securing water in different types of terrain. [50:24]Items people should always have in their cars — whether they’re going camping, visiting relatives a few hours away, or just commuting to the other side of town. [1:00:46]Why you should be prepared to source your own water — even if you live in a major metropolitan area where finding it isn’t something you’re used to thinking about. [1:08:19]Not just for astronauts and infantry: Steven explains the good, the bad, and the ugly behind the space-age miracle of freeze dried food. [1:11:31]Something you can try at home: an incidental steak-searing trick requiring only a common household freezer. [1:19:38]What the Inca knew about keeping potatoes and human sacrifices intact with their own version of freeze drying circa 1490. [1:20:20]What does Steven hope and feel the psychological benefits will be for readers of The MeatEater Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival? [1:24:10]Even if Steven were otherwise rational to a cyborg level of efficiency, what seemingly non-rational practice would he still bring with him into the wilderness (even at the risk of being ridiculed by others)? [1:27:32]In a life so far filled with adventures aplenty, what still remains on Steven’s bucket list? [1:30:55]Parting thoughts. [1:32:47]
PEOPLE MENTIONED
John McPheeMax RockatanskyCormac McCarthyJohn Rambo