Bill Willingham's Blog, page 6

The Never Ending Interview: Day Ten

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Tyler Walpole @TylerWapole.

Tyler: Whatever happened to “Just Another Ranker”? I’m still dying to know how that turned out.

Bill: Just Another Ranker is a hot mess, but one I still intend (or at least hope) to fix and finish someday.

Tyler has asked about a novel I was writing in serial form, which was basically placed online, posting however much I finished on any given day. This was during our Clockwork Storybook days, when we were throwing a ton of free material online, including 30 Day Stories, which were long form short stories (not entirely a contradiction) written and posted in daily bits. Those were successful enough to inspire serialized novels, done in the same format, but not limited to 30 Days duration.

Ranker got up to at least (we’re not sure) 55 daily installments, before it petered out, a victim of my getting paying work that took precedence, and a gradual realization that the story needed some serious restructuring. It stopped just short of

the big climactic final battle, in the multi-day military engagement, in a fantasy scenario whose similarities to the famous Battle of Rorke’s Drift were intentional.

It was written and posted half a dozen different computers ago, and posted on the ancient Clockwork Storybook website, which no longer exists, and hasn’t for some time.

So, herein is the trouble. I don’t have the entire story. I have most of it, recovered through my own efforts, along with those of various colleagues, friends and helpful strangers, but I’m missing at least three (and perhaps five) critical installments, which various adventure archeologists of things that were once online have not been able to recover.

I’m half willing to take another run at the material I do have, hoping that I can recreate the missing chapters from memory, but I’m loathe to do so, knowing (as all writers do) that nothing I’ve ever written is so perfect and flawless as material I no longer have access to. I want those missing chapters. I demand the indifferent universe find some way to magically spit them back at me.

And sooner would be better than later, please.

Failing that, I suppose I’m going to find a time someday to take another run at the story, clean it up, restructure some truly horrible bits, change some things to account for new things I’ve learned about military strategy, tactics and logistics since way back then, and finish it.

Someday.

But right now, I’m a bit too busy and the novel, as it currently exists, is a real hot mess.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Nine

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Rich Johnston.

Rich: Can I ask about your post Kickstarter plans?

Bill: I’m not dispirited that the Kickstarter didn’t work out. It would have been a giant advantage towards getting this project underway, had the Kickstarter made its funding goal. The big hurdle all along wasn’t the desire or determination to do the book, but the ability for Frank to be able to take the amount of time off from other work to be able to do this as a side project. It simply wasn’t feasible to do in bits and pieces squeezed in among other projects. So the Kickstarter money was designed to allow Frank to take a pretty large bulk of time off to devote solely to this.

Oh well.

The good news is, results like this keep me humble, and that’s worth whatever embarrassment comes with a failed Kickstarter push.

Now, as to the plans for the Bifrost novel. I’m still going to write it. Whether or not Frank will still be able to illustrate it is subject to a long conversation we haven’t had yet.

In projects like this, it’s always all about the art. I can find the time to write now and worry about being paid for it down the road. The art side of things takes up so much time though, it’s difficult, approaching impossible, to ask for the same sort of “wait to be paid someday” sort of commitment.

In addition to Bifrost, I have three separate new comics projects (unrelated to Fables, or any other ongoing series) written and ready to go to artists. But all three are of the “wait for money down the road” sorts of deals, which is why no artists are attached to them yet. I’m reluctant to approach anyone with a plan that involves doing the work now and then getting paid someday. I can ask that of myself. I find it difficult to ask of another.

If I were rich enough, I could easily solve the problem by paying for the art in advance out of my own pocket. Then the worry about how and when pay might come lands entirely on my own shoulders.

So, that’s where we are right now. The moment my ship comes in, Bifrost and those other projects will be off to the races. Yes, that was a horribly mixed metaphor, for which I am not in the least bit apologetic.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Eight

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Priscilla França.

Priscilla: Why do you kill so many of the characters I love most in Fables? Are you trying to be like George RR Martin?

Bill: Not at all. When I kill a character, I do it for art. I do it solely for the good of the story. George does it because he’s a heartless bastard.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Seven

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Matthew Hargraves @hrgrama59m.

Matthew: Which Fables character do you personally identify with the most, i.e., which is the most “you”?

Bill: This is the type of question that’s hard to interpret, because I don’t know that identification with any character is possible, advisable, or in any way “a consummation devoutly to be wished.”

All of them, or none of them, perhaps?

It’s not really the sort of thing that comes up when crafting a particular character. The questions that revolve around a new character more resemble questions about meeting a new stranger, than looking for things in myself. Who is she? Why does she dress like that? Is she smart, or an idiot? What does she want? Who does she want it from? Who does she love? Who does she hate? Why? What is she willing to do to get what she wants? What is she not willing to do? What are her causes? What would she die for? What would she kill for?

And so on.

Gradually, as I fill in answers to those questions, and about a hundred more, the character becomes less of a stranger and more of someone I know.

In some cases, the answer to some of the formative questions that make up her character will resemble the answers I might give to such an interogation. In that way I suppose there is an overlap of similarity. But not much.

Let’s imagine a hero who used to take joy in mass murder, and feasting on the flesh of those he killed. Let’s imagine he’s killed more than you or I could reasonably count, depopulating entire towns at the height of his depredations. There’s such a character in Fables. Do I identify with him?

Not too much so far.

I’ve never killed a man, a woman or a child, and I’ve never depopulated so much as a bungalow, much less a village. Once, while in the Army, guarding nukes, I was put in the position where I was about to have to shoot up to four people. That’s as close as I’ve ever come to committing deadly violence. The entire time I was having anything but a good time. Mostly I prayed help would arrive in time, or the four would stop doing what they were doing, so I wouldn’t have to shoot. I don’t think that incident comes anywhere close to the joy taken in killing of our Fables hero.

So, once again, no real area of identification.

(By the way, help did arrive in time to better control the situation and make it so that I no longer had to hold four people at gunpoint. I only mention this because you looked worried. It all turned out more or less okay.)

Also, I never feasted on the flesh of all those people I didn’t kill.

So, still batting zero.

But wait a minute. We’ve also learned that character also likes a good rare steak. I do too. He’s been in love at least once and gave his heart to her, without reservation. He loved her so much in fact he was willing to transform his life, pretty much from the ground up, to have a chance to win her. I did that once too, with perhaps a bit less of a complete transformation required in order to have my shot (and, unfortunately, without the success our Fables hero enjoyed).

So, all of a sudden there are areas of identification.

We could go on and on about this ad nauseam , but the upshot is, in the long run, we have a character that resembles me a bit here and there, but not in any substantial way.

I can be a bit of a smartass at times, and there are plenty of those in Fables, so sure, there must be some of me out there. Then again, I know many smartasses who are bigger and better and more accomplished smartasses than I am, so maybe it’s a bit of them that I’ve infused into those many characters.

I like a lot of things many Fables cast members like, but I also hate a lot of things many Fables cast members like.

I think I’ve probably made my point.

We’re back to the original answer. I both identify with all and none.

There are some stories where a particular character is clearly intended to be the author’s surrogate. I’m trying to recall a great example of one right now, but the TV is on, showing the Benghazi hearings, which vies for my attention, and so I’m a bit too distracted to come up with one. But let me assure you, they exist.

However, Fables isn’t one of them.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Six

The Never Ending Interview: Day Six

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Melissa, of the dynamic duo Erick and Melissa @AangandKarara. She asked a detailed multi-part question, which I split up into three questions, since they really were three questions (Sneaky Parker, thinking she can fool me).

Melissa: I know you started in the gaming industry.

Bill: Sort of. If you mean my first published work, then that was back in 1976, while going to college in Eugene, Oregon. I hand drew a few local newspaper ads and flyers, for which I charged a whopping ten dollars a pop. My crowning achievement in that year was designing a better logo for a local band called Wheatfield, when I did an appearance flyer for a venue that was hosting them. The band sought me out, asked me to sign over all rights to the logo I designed. I was happy to do it, for some pay. Since they had no money, we settled for a lifetime two free passes to any concert or venue at which the band played, for all time. Does anyone in the area know if Wheatfield ever made it as a band? Maybe I can finally take them up on my pay.

​In any case, that year in Oregon was my first professional work, which means that’s where I started.

​The gaming industry, specifically the art department of TSR Hobbies, was certainly where I started in a serious and dedicated way. That was where I decided “some form of this” was what I planned on doing to make a living. Even during that time – I worked at TSR for about a year, and then did some freelance work for them for another year – I was working towards my next (and possibly ultimate) step, which was breaking into comic book illustration.

Melissa: What was your favorite gaming project?

Bill: Good question, for which I’m not sure I have an adequate answer. I have a fondness for Dungeons & Dragons, the original first version, because that started the entire tabletop role-playing game industry, including my involvement in it. Death Duel With the Destroyers, and Island of Doctor Apocalypse are the only two published gaming projects, both for the Villains and Vigilantes RPG, which I wrote, as well as illustrated. And they led indirectly to my comics career, so of course I’m glad they existed.

​But my favorite gaming projects have to be a few things that never saw publication. The first was an unnamed superhero role-playing game that I was inspired to start working on while still in the Army. Since the fantasy and science fiction genres had already been so well covered at the time (this was back in late 79 and early 80), I thought someone had better do a game set in a superhero universe. It didn’t get too far before I arrived at the TSR offices, ready for my new job, and immediately met fellow art department artist Jeff Dee, who’d already published a superhero game, and was in the early stages of revising it for a second publication. Since it had already been done, I didn’t see much point in continuing work on my own game.

​Later that year, while working in the art department, I started work on my second big role-playing game, where one would play modern gods – along the lines of Zelazny’s various prose works, or Kirby’s New Gods and high tech Norse gods in Marvel’s Thor comics. I worked on that until I started getting comics work, at which time that project also fell by the wayside.

​So, my favorite gaming projects were two games that never actually existed. I suspect this is because imaginary projects are always perfect and wonderful. Those that actually have to exist are always flawed by the imperfect acts that go into every act of creation.

Melissa: Your favorite games to play now?

Bill: I get to play games so seldom that I doubt I can pin down a favorite. Someday I’ll finish creating my ultimate board game (think of RISK, but with spies, assassins and ocean battles) and that may answer your question just fine.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Five

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by a fellow writer who came cloaked in disguise.

Mystery Writer: Do you ever worry that you’re just sending your stories out there and they simply disappear, or fall off the face of the Earth, unread and unappreciated?

Bill: Of course. Writing isn’t performance art, done in front of an audience, while they scream and dance in the aisles and throw their panties up on the stage. We do it alone, in varying degrees of silence and shame, separated from everyone we hope will eventually see what we’ve wrought.

And while we do travel to comic shows and bookstores and conventions and conferences of diverse types, at which we will occasionally meet some of those who’ve actually read our work, it’s not enough. They aren’t enough to keep at bay the suspicion that these things we craft are in fact sent directly out to the lands of lost and forgotten things, where nothing grows and everything is clouded in mist.

At such times I try to recall every writer whose work I’ve loved, and how few of them ever knew it. Edgar Rice Burroughs, like Kipling and so many others, died long before I discovered his works and could tell him. Zelazny I met exactly once,

and didn’t want to spend those precious moments gushing about his stories, like some overzealous fan. Damn me for that. I should have at least mentioned something. I’ve met a few writers whose work has moved me. Many more, by a factor of hundreds (if not thousands), I will never meet and never get to tell.

Somehow I use those examples as an excuse to hope the same holds true for me. I suspect it’s one of the few areas in which I willingly let un-provable faith influence my life.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Four

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Jayne Spencer, aka @SnowWhiteWolf.



Jayne: Do you ever suffer from writer’s block, and if so do you have any sort of ritual behavior to cure it?

Bill: I go through cycles of skepticism on whether or not writer’s block truly exists. At times I suspect (especially in light of how well I know myself) it’s just a cover for laziness. In most cases I expect that’s exactly what’s behind it, and nothing more profound.

In some cases, also nearly as frequent, it’s down to a lack of nerve – a matter of listening too much to that constant internal voice that says, “You’re not a real writer and you’re not capable of doing this. Quit and suffer a little embarrassment now, to save yourself the greater embarrassment later, when everyone discovers what a fraud you are and have been all along.”

That voice has been with me all my life, through every single thing I’ve ever attempted to write, and succeeded in writing. I only admit to it because, if the anecdotal evidence from nearly every colleague I’ve ever spoken to is correct, it’s nearly a universal condition. Everyone in the writing trade seems to have some version of the same damning voice, constantly whispering the same poisonous crap in their mind’s ear.

However, there have been rare times when the willingness to sit down and work is high, the inner voice is as quiet as it ever is, and still the writing won’t come. It’s at these times when I am reluctantly willing to consider the possibility that actual writer’s block exists.

I have no rituals to overcome those rare times.

I do however have a solution or two that’s worked for me in the past.

First, I never have only one writing project in operation at any one time. Sometimes I wish that it were so, but it never is. I always have two or three (or much, much more) projects going at any one time, all with an editor, or agent, or publisher somewhere screaming for me to get it in. When I simply can’t work on one given story, I switch to another.

Writer’s block, if it actually exists, seems to be story specific. The ideas and words and sentences that won’t come for one story, doesn’t seem to be able to keep ideas and words and sentences from coming to the next one down the list.

Sometimes though, a given story is so immanent (read late) that I can’t afford the time to switch to the next one to overcome a block. In that case I switch to the next solution for breaking through the block. I simply write down what’s supposed to happen in the story. I don’t try for art. I don’t worry one bit about a clever turn of phrase. Erudition goes right out the window. The need for succinct sinks. I simply start filling in the blank space from where I last left off with notes, dry and inartful, about what needs to happen next. It often comes out as something like stream-of-conscious letter writing to myself, like so:

Okay, so writer’s block has got me, but I can’t let that stop my working. So here’s what needs to happen in this bit of the story, which you will then come back and fix and polish when your mighty artsy fartsy powers return.

Bob needs to hide his wife’s body. He needs to cut it up into small bits before he tries to haul it downstairs and out of the building, because he knows Mrs. Bottlerocket down in 4G is always peeping out of her door, always taking note of the various comings and goings in the entire apartment building. A large, body-sized bag will certainly attract her attention, along with who know’s how many others?

Bob’s no genius, but he is smart enough to know he can’t take that kind of chance. So he’s going to cut her up in the tub, package her up in several tiny packages, well wrapped in plastic and then concealed in different sorts of outer packaging – never the same sort of package twice – and remove her from the crime scene over a period of days.

But Bob doesn’t own a saw. So buying a saw down at the Ace Hardware is job number one. Do some sort of bit here where Bob can’t help providing explanations to the store clerk and the doorman, and a few other people, on why he suddenly needs a saw, even though not one of them would care less, if Bob weren’t blurting out all these cover stories.

Now, how is Bob going to explain the absence of his wife over the next few days?

See how it works? I quit trying to tell the story. I switch to telling myself what the story is going to be, once I am able to come back and actually tell the story. Usually, at some point in the process, whatever is keeping me blocked goes away (like many bullies, he runs away if you stand up to him), and the place-holding notes turns back into actual writing.

The solutions for those other times mentioned above are even more basic. When I’m simply being lazy, I scold myself to get my fat, lazy ass in gear and get to work. Sometimes I have someone else around to do that scolding for me – or with me. When it’s the inner voice telling me I can’t do it, I don’t try to argue with the inner voice. In fact I agree with it whole-heartedly. I am a cheat and I can’t actually write and somehow my past work has gotten published fraudulently. And that means I am a successful con man, a bamboozler, a flimflam artist, a swindler, and my life is a series of caper flicks – a delightful and never ending madcap romp, if you will. At some point the absurdity of the exchange crumbles under it’s own weight and I can get back to work.

These are the solutions to writer’s block that work for me. I don’t have rituals, because they’re nonsense. I don’t switch to doing research, because that’s just another way to avoid actually writing, and does more to feed the block, rather than dispel it. Writer’s block, if it exists, must be countered with actual writing. Like kryptonite on that guy in the cape, it’s the only thing that can kill it.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Three

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked by Zalka Csenge Virág, aka @TarkabarkaHolgy.

Zalka: Do you think it’s important for the reader to know the original story to appreciate the re-imagined version?

Bill: Important yes, but vital, or even necessary, no. I’m terribly biased in the favor of stories, at least the good ones, so of course I find it important to know as many good stories as one can. But important is all too often conflated with necessary.

Let me try to illustrate the difference: It’s important to clean your firearms. However, if the enraged bear is coming through the cabin wall right now and all you have available is a dirty, dirty rifle, I’d go out on a limb here and say it’s necessary to take up said arms and give it a shot.

So, let me take your question as if you’d said ‘necessary’ instead. Not at all. In my first encounter with the wonderful movie The Forbidden Planet, I had no idea it was based on a play by Shakespeare. I was able to enjoy it, be drawn into it, and even be moved by it, without the extra understanding. Later, when I knew the connection and had become well acquainted with The Tempest, I was able to appreciate the film on an additional level.

I’d love it if readers knew all of the historical and legendary background of every character and story which finds its way into Fables. I’d love it just as much if readers didn’t know that stuff, but were inspired by Fables to seek out and explore the original material. I’d love it just as much if readers didn’t know that stuff, weren’t moved to learn more of its origins, but still thought Fables was just fine, all on its own. I don’t think any of those are contradictions.

BiFrost Kickstarter, Weird Incentives, Fables’ Next Arc

Rob Patey of Ain’t It Cool does a pretty great interview with Bill about a number of things. It’s copied below, but you should also check it out on Rob’s web site as well.

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I love the Internet. I interviewed Bill from my iPhone in Philly airport and I package this interview from my balcony overlooking the white sands of Aruba. Only my love for all things Willingham could get me to spend my first vacation in two years typing away about a KICKSTARTER project. It also doesn’t hurt Frank Cho is joining project BIFROST and Bill agreed to spill some goods on FABLES to sweeten the deal.

Bill Willingham (BW): Before we go into this I want to make sure you’re not so polite we don’t address some of the criticisms thus far about the Kickstarter.

Rob Patey aka Optimous Douche (OD): I guess you haven’t been privy to my reviews, but I chose a nom de plume reflective of my personality, Optimous Douche. I’m a huge fan and holding back my geekdom right now, but I promise not to pull punches. However, you changed my family. You’re the only comic writer I’ve been able to get my parents to sit down and read. My Mother bugs me monthly now for my copies of FABLES.

BW: Glad to hear it. She didn’t write you out of the will after reading?

OD: Only child, and they don’t have any pets so…I promise though, no punches pulled. I’ll be honest it was solely my fandom of FABLES that made me agree to covering yet another Kickstarter project.

BW: Say more…

OD: I get between probably 30-40 Kickstarter coverage requests a month. After 2 years of this I’ve become very stringent with my criteria to cover them. One of which is I insist on a finished product in hand that I can see in PDF form beforehand. I’ve been burned too many times where creators are looking to get a paycheck to create a book. Being a comic author myself, I created my book that’s getting published this year during my free time at night without ever knowing if I would get a publisher. So I take the stance; if you believe in it, go create it and worry about the money later.

BW: It surprises me Kickstarter has only been around for two years, it has completely embedded itself in the culture. It’s where I go to look at the new cool things coming up. Things like the Veronica Mars Kickstarter, which was a phenomenon unto itself.

OD: More like an anomaly…

BW: True. But just that the mechanism for something like that to occur is amazing. Very impressive. I had no idea that in such a short time there have been rules that have shaken down for Kickstarter projects. The other surprising thing on first blush is that it could be rife for scams. Since you can literally Kickstart anything, I’m waiting for the old time email equivalent of if you give me x amount of dollars you can get your held fortunes from some obscure country.

OD: That’s the 419 scammers from Nigeria, because that’s the name of the penal code for it. There’s a really cool guy in England who has a site called 419 eater where he strings them along and makes them do all sorts of crazy shit like jump off buildings before he agrees to send them the money. They film or photograph the antics and then he puts them on the site. He also shares the email exchanges which range from the sad to hilarious (depending on your world view). It still goes on by the way. If you have your email address up in enough place (like say Ain’t It Cool News). Ask your assistant Stephanie how many she gets in a day. I get about 20 a week.

BW: Such a flim flammery world we live in. Anyway my first blush impression of Kickstarter was that “Oh dear God” this is going to be scam heaven. I wonder if you can get away with things like I’m trying to finance a change in spirituality or something else that doesn’t actually exist than fast talking.

OD: And that’s one of my concerns with Kickstarter from the comic perspective. We have a mantra on Ain’t It Cool to help the little guys. Yes, we cover the big guns to keep the clicks flowing in, like I’ve done over 15 FABLES reviews in my six years on the site. But we as a site and I‘ve always taken the personal mantra to cover one indie or sub-indie book a week or every two weeks if my day job isn’t that busy. So I went into Kickstarter coverage with eyes and arms wide open ready to embrace it. Then I just got burned time after time with projects that never came to fruition or a load of half-baked ideas that thought they were a real comic book. People didn’t get scammed out of their money, but there is still a lot of skullduggery. Very fair of you to go in with that trepidation. So what made you finally decide to jump in?

BW: Two things, by the way have we started?

OD: Yeah, I’m not a great interviewer, I prefer conversations.

BW: I like that better, don’t change. So it was a couple of things. First of all, it’s fairly well known I’m from the right side of the tracks politically and one of the things that makes me bristle is that things that are worth doing like support for the arts and such do not necessarily mean we should be forced to pay for them with our tax dollars. To me Kickstarter is the perfect mechanism to prove what I’ve said fr years, which is that there are wonderful things worth doing and supporting. Meaning not an investment in a company, but more like micro amount grants to worthy causes. But it’s not required is the point. It is done with persuasion versus force. Which is how it should be.  When I realized that Kickstarter was the mechanism against what I’ve griped about for years I saw it as a wonderful thing.

The specifics of why do this? Frank and I have wanted to work together for some time. We just couldn’t quite get together. Even when I came over to Marvel to do the 4 issue THOR thing, thinking maybe this time it could work, he simply wasn’t available. The deal was along the lines of you get to work with the best artist we have available at the time, that was the closest they would do to a guarantee I could work with Frank Cho. And of course it didn’t happen, because it was a slippery guarantee definition. When the big companies of DC and Marvel are there the idea of two guys wanting to do a book together is an impossible mess to slog through. We decided to do a novel instead of a comic…that takes contract exclusivity off the table.

OD: That was actually one question I prepared for the interview, why BIFROST will be a prose piece?

BW: I think it’s a better prose piece regardless, but exclusivity was one of the considerations. If we don’t do it as a comic than the exclusives are taken away.

OD: I thought you were no longer exclusive to DC, correct?

BW: I am no longer exclusive, although I haven’t done much with them outside of FABLES for it to be really noticeable. The only barrier that was left was Frank being able to take the big blocks of time to do a project like this and afford it. The art side of things for better or worse just takes longer than writing. It’s easier to find time within your schedule for other writing projects, it’s harder to do big projects on the art side. So the whole purpose of the Kickstarter was to get the money to compensate for the big chunk of time Frank needs to take out of his schedule to do BIFROST.

OD: It’s interesting you say that, my graphic novel AVERAGE JOE which is coming out soon is 160 pages and it’s taken close to 18 months for the art because my artist has a day job and we’re both getting compensated on the back end. So it is safe to say we’ll see a quick turn around with BIFROST since Frank can shuffle off other paid projects?

BW: Officially we’re going to give him a year before we get antsy. However, Frank’s enthusiasm is amazing. He shouldn’t really start working until the Kickstarter is funded, but at the cancelled Boston Con he was already showing me BIFROST sketches. And what he consider sketches most would consider ready for inking. They are gloriously  rough. So my suspicion is this will move rapidly. It’s a project of love.

I should probably work in an apology now to DC and others who are waiting for work that is already scheduled. There might be a few blown deadlines.

OD: Wow, that’s a bold statement. Kudos!

BW: Well, you know, we’re excited about this. The bumps in the road, like learning the Kickstarter process notwithstanding.

OD: OK, I’m glad you brought up the white elephant in the room first. I was wondering how to get to this question. Some folks, like Bleeding Cool have derided your choices for Kickstarter incentives. You’ve gone away from the traditional, fund this project get a copy of the book or a commemorative beer cozy. What was the thought process here?

BW: Since the structure was to get the funds to create the project not publish it, which I now understand is not the exception not the  norm, I simply didn’t want to handicap the project when we went to publishers. I didn’t want to go in there and say to them, “no matter what deal we make you must provide this number of copies to meet the rewards.” We’re talking to big publishers who have set policies for everything. If you go against those policies you get a lot of “this has never been done” and it will take months of rewriting contracts. I’ve been down this road before and it’s just how staid old publishers work. I over thought it basically.

So we came up with rewards that could circumvent those difficulties.  People immediately rushed to let me know that I was being silly. Wiser heads like Kurt Busiek let me know that publishers are already making allowances for Kickstarter. Actually it’s precedent. What’s odd is even though it’s a norm now, digital rights are so volatile in publishing, and giving away the DRM is harder than physical copies believe it or not. So we added actual tangible rewards since then, but boy is my embarrassment vast.

In hindsight I should have asked some folks, but I just didn’t think there were any Kickstarter experts.

OD: Actually you should look outside of comics to Internet marketers because we’ve been dealing with digital rights management waaayyyyy before comics were dealing with it. We’ve also been all over Kickstarter since day one looking for ways to monetize it. Yes, “the man” is evil and I am his tool for 8 hours a day. It’s a great high commitment heavily viral tool, the panacea of marketing. Email marketing has gone  the way of the Sabertooth, so we’re always moving to where the traffic is to hock our wares.

BW: I never thought of it, but that’s true. One of my assistant’s more important jobs is to slog through the email crap and get rid of anything I don’t absolutely need to see. I think Dave Sims said, if you sit to answer 300 letters from the old days, you could do it even  though it would be arduous. If you sat down to answer 300 emails you couldn’t get to the end before the answers to your answers started arriving. A slog of self generation.

OD: That’s why internet marketers live by 3, 30, 300. You have to get them in 3 seconds with the subject line, 30 seconds for the email body and 300 seconds with your offer landing page. All have to the most insanely targeted and compelling thing the user has ever read. It’s why we A/B/C test and then double down the next go round.

BW: So does answer this or I kill your cat still work?

OD:  No, testing found a lot of people don’t give a shit about cats.

BW: The  wonderful thing about the Internet including email, is that if you step on your foot the entire Internet will tell you how badly you screwed up instantaneously. Some in a helpful  way, some not so much. But that’s the price of putting yourself out there.

Some of it still confuses me. One of the things I was certain of this is not an investment. And correct me if I’m wrong, but a reward for a copy of the book should not require an investment beyond the actual retail price of the book.

OD: I respectfully disagree. There’s a level of exclusivity and specialness to advances. Everyone wants books before everyone else in this spoiler age and people will pay a premium for it and reap a 5 minutes of fame themselves for having the inside skinny.

When I screwed up and reviewed JMS’ SUPERMAN EARTH ONE: VOLUME ONE three weeks before the embargo date. I pissed off a few PR teams, but at the end of the day those people that read my review carried the word forwarded and aside from simply being thrilled to know the details ahead of time, they also helped to increase pre-order sales for the masses outside of heavily steeped geekdom.

Honestly I think this is why you guys are at 10K already. You didn’t offer a copy of BIFROST, but you had some really cool, really personally intimate interactions up there with access to you and Frank.

BW: My guiding philosophy was that the rewards should be fun. I didn’t want to put a lot of art obligations on Frank fro rewards, so he could stay focused, Meeting creators though do seem to be what fans like. These were hard for me to craft. I always have an angel or devil on  my shoulder depending on your views whispering, ‘why would you think anyone wants to meet you?” It’s a little egotistical to think rewards of meeting you are an actual reward for people.

OD: Well convention admission fees say otherwise…

BW: True, but I also wanted to make it fun. I found out you can’t do rewards above $10,000. I wanted to have the top tier be a $30,000 reward, which is Frank and I flying out to give you your money back. Minus travel expenses and hooker fees of course. I never expected anyone to do it. I just thought it was funny.

OD: They mainly have that cap because of average credit card limits. You would only be flying out to meet the Krapdashians or Puffy.

BW: If you’re financing a popular movie based on a popular TV show like Veronica Mars the $10,000 dollars will play. I don’t expect too many on BIFROST.

OD:  The big dollar ones are usually 5 minutes of fame. Your visage appears in the project, you get to write a line of dialog, you get a special thanks at the end…a reach around from Kristen Bell…etc…

BW: We have some of that in there, but I really don’t expect anyone to actually contribute to them. What I also didn’t expect was for someone to take offense to them. There was someone online who went on and on because I said you get ot be a bum in the story. And now I’m evil because I used that word.

OD: Here, let me take the heat off of you. It was probably a bum that complained on his subsidized iPhone he never worked a day for.

BW Even though I don’t use emoticons because I think they’re evil. There was a definitive after those prizes.

The idea that it’s an investment is something I wanted to thwart. It’s not. The best way to support the project is when it comes out, buy it.  Buy it for a reasonable price. I have never noticed any Kickstarter that has listed the reasons you shouldn’t contribute. But I want to make it clear, use your poker or frivolous money for this. Don’t use your rent or car payment cash.

OD: It’s a shame you have to tell people that.

BW: But you do. In a friendly poker game one day with friends, I was doing really well. Two of my friends were talking about how they were going to make the truck payment. What the hell were they thinking? I want to make sure no one gives me important working money. Ever. That still haunts me to today.

OD: Let’s talk about BIFROST itself.  It’s the old Nordic name for the Rainbow bridge right?

BW: Yes, I’ve always the whole idea of the Rainbow Bridge. It was the first thing that captured me about Norse mythology. Rainbows themselves pop up all over mythology. In Christian or Judaic circles it is the sign of the covenant that God isn’t going to destroy the  world by flooding again. Which is a shame because then there were no rainbows before Noah. It’s a shame, those poor schmucks didn’t have something so beautiful.

OD: What’s even worse is that also means they lived without light or moisture in the atmosphere.

BW: Yes and mist just appeared from the ground I guess. I don’t think those are as clever though as the Norse mythology which is that is clearly the bridge of the Gods you can never quite get to. You can never follow them to the heavenly world.

I started once before to play with the notion of who controls the bridge once everything falls to shit. A big part of Norse mythology is that everything is coming to an end, there is a big doom hanging over their heads and they are just waiting. I played around with and of course Marvel has played with what comes before the end, but no one looked at what happens afterwards.

So that’s what this is about. Who controls this wonderful thing once the end has happened? The premise is that Hundall (sic) destroys the bridge and cuts it from its base once the world starts to fall. My justification is that it shatters.  But just like the physicists postulate gravity will bring together a shattered planet again, likewise for the bridge. It looks like the old Roman roads of antiquity now.. it is a rocky and craggy journey instead of pleasant. You can make use of it.

OD: So BIFROST takes place in both Valhalla and the mortal plane?

BW: The novel takes place on our world, but our world where the fantasy we believe in now is real. But unlike Dresden and most urban modern fantasy where vampires or werewolves exist, or even FABLES none of these things are secret. It’s all buerocracy. You have your vampire communitues, department of lycanthropy, government divisions dealing with ghosts.One example is Amnesty Supernatural which looks to get ghosts out of abusive homes.

And you have the last survivor of the death of the Norse Gods and she just realized that’s who she is.

So yes, we have post the destruction of Ragnarok. Asgard and possibly the other 9 worlds, which are now wastelands. It’s have your cake and eat it too. It’s all post-apocalyptic, but our world is just fine. It’s all the others “over the rainbow” that got the shit kicked out of them. And now we’re going to see what’s up there.

OD: How far along are you with the script, is it completed?

BW: I do not. Part of the reward system is I write it while you watch. The first level of what I consider interesting rewards are a subscription to the writing journal and you get to follow the progress along while I write. Mostly I have to keep ahead of Frank. He needs to draw when he can so I need to keep him supplied.  Especially now that we’re past April 1. It seems an auspicious day to start a project, but I’ve started all of my major projects on this day. Four of my exclusives with DC were then. I started a romantic relationship once where I knew she was going to rip out my heart on April 1. It’s an important day for me and that’s when I had to start. I should wait until it’s funded, but I can’t stop myself. The idea is that right away after May 14, we’ll send out the first update of “here’s what I worked on today.” They are little peeks into the novel. Now of course someone described it as “great for $10, you get Bill’s e-newsletter.” That’s not what it is; it’s a real journal with specifics about the novel, and my insights on writing.

OD: If I can make a suggestion, format the shit out of it with HTML so the pirates at least have to make an effort to put it out on Bittorrents.

BW: Oh, OK. I will send that to my people who are more computer aware than I. It’s going to happen. I don’t support it, but it will occur.

(Diversion about digital Brian K. Vaughan’s DRM free book)

BW: It’s on my list to reach out to him to see how it’s doing once all my obligations to editors are met and well ahead of schedule.

OD: I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much, FABLES comes out like clockwork.

BW: It does, but there are mighty efforts behind the scenes to make that happen.

OD: I imagine Buckingham’s exquisite margins alone take a week.

BW: I love em.

OD: Me too. So have you talked to any publishers about BIFROST yet?

BW: We have. I have sworn I will never name names, but there have been two that expressed blind interest. They sort of understand and are interested. I had another conversation yesterday as well. It’s remarkable I’m stressed more about saying, no or not yet than in the old days when I was just begging to be looked at. The anxiety is higher only because we break into this business we lose our ability to say no because we always want to hear yes.

The absolute overriding reason for doing it this way is so we can have the finished product unblemished by editorial mandates when we start shopping.

OD: Is Frank going to be doing the illustrations in color?

BW: I hope not, it will probably be all black and white. The Acme of this kind of project was Bernie Wrightson’s Frankenstein, it changed my life on a huge magnitude. With the wood cut style Frank is using it also lends itself to black and white.

OD: The main reason I ask is as we discussed digital versions, color inhibits reading on some very very popular e-reader devices.

BW: Yeah, I never thought of that. The state of  the art is higher than what is usually out there. It will most likely be black and white.

OD: While I have you, can we get a FABLES update?

BW: Well I think, what, issue 128 just came out?

OD: Yup, the smackdown between Bigby and Brandish.

BW: Well without giving away the end we have one more big issue of the Snow White arc to conclude. The premise is easy; once again Snow is in a situation where no one can help her get out of her troubles. She’s on her own, so now we get to see how she rises to the occasion on her own sole devices. Also she’s not going to forget those that didn’t at least take a shot at sending Brandish packing.

Following that we have an arc called Camelot. A restoration of the round table and  the idea that the powerful and privileged should put that to service in a formalized way. Rose Red starts it all. After two grim arcs, I promised the editors a little ray of hope. Camelot, a brief shining moment. It’s interesting when you recreate a knighthood of servitude the type of folks who sign up.

OD: Anything I missed on BIFROST?

BW: If you have some cash please help out. If you don’t, THEN DON’T. Just buy BIFROST when it comes out.  It will be a beautiful lavish book. We’re doing it Kickstarter based because we want to offer a higher quality product.

OD: You should make the digital version have bonus material like your journals and video blogs so that becomes a higher quality experience as well. Just a suggestion from a man who loves interactive materials to his e-books.

BW: Thank you, I love recommendations…and even sullen comments, though people don’t have to contribute so I don’t get those. It’s not compulsory.

OD: But complaining on the Internet is. Thank you Bill for the insight, and tolerating my fandom.

The Never Ending Interview: Day Two

One question a day will be addressed, for as long as it remains interesting to me, and the questions keep coming.

Today’s question was asked, in slightly different versions, by a couple of different people, so I combined them into one.

Amalgam Man: What would it take to get another Marvel or DCU book from you?

Bill: It would take being asked, of course, but since I’m plenty busy on my own projects, it would also take being offered one of the “I’ve always wanted to do that (character/team/book).” There aren’t many of those left, but I have to admit there are a few.

I’m not at all against doing work for hire, on company owned characters, but I am against the recent trend of, “We direct the story from on high and you just write what we tell you, and then get ready to rewrite a lot, because we change our minds two or three times a day,” that seems to be in effect lately.

Because candor is more than a bottled city, and something of a goal with this daily exercise, I’ll risk exposing my weak underbelly, by giving you something of a direct answer to a direct question.

At Marvel I’ve always wanted to do Doctor Strange or Thor. I got to scratch the Thor itch a little bit with my Warriors Three mini series, and besides, Thor has

been written awfully well lately, so that desire isn’t as acute. I mostly yearn to work on those things that aren’t being done well (according to what wisdom has been given to me). Doctor Strange would be the thing then, provided I was the only one using the character at the time and didn’t have to comply with whatever else is happening in the fictional universe today.

At DC I would probably not be able to refuse a chance to take a second run at Shadowpact, but this time with exclusive use of the characters, and absolutely, written-in-stone guarantees of not having to tie in with whatever else is happening in the fictional universe today. Also, I created a character for the DCU called The Veteran. I think he could work nicely as the star of his own book.

That said, let me assure you that both companies and both fictional universes are getting along just fine without me. Neither are camping out on my doorstep just now, which is no tragedy.

Since it relates to the discussion above, and since a coincidence of timing has forced me to work it out, I’ll treat you to my recently codified five rules for ever again working on licensed material (which also would apply to company-owned books):

A reasonable page rate.
Payment on time
A good artist, who draws the story, and does it on model (in the cases where the look of a character has already been long established).
I’m the only writer on this property at the time that I’m doing this series, and I don’t have to coordinate with any other books, editorial decrees, events or crossovers. While it’s perfectly reasonable to get the most from your properties by having several series using this setting/team/characters at once, using different writers, then I can’t be involved, since the joy of coordinating big stories with multiple writers is entirely gone from my life. Past field work in big company universes have eaten all the rations of it I ever had.
As long as I’m having fun doing it.

That’s it. Those are my unreasonable demands for any future work on such things. It’s not rocket science. If these rules also work for other writers in our field, I invite you to make use of them as standard boilerplate, to be included within any agreement you make. To answer the above question simply then, this is what it would take.