Lois’s answer to “As an author, how do you feel about content/trigger warnings? Some of your books have unpleasant…” > Likes and Comments
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Refreshing POV ! I'm getting tired of the endless tagging and people taking issue about it. I sometimes jump into a book years after having buying it without reading the back cover because it's nice to let the writer take us on a journey without someone else meddlesome selling words. Huh. That's what I guess it feels like for me. Over-meddling.
Coming from fanfic, tagging can be more of a way of advertising than warning. For literary fiction, I would be relieved to not have to just assume that every time there's a mysterious family was a dark secret, the dark secret was CSA.
XDD I had to ask what TLA was a TLA for. CSA is Childhood Sexual Abuse.
@ Cara, ah yes, thanks. Some sectors of fiction do seem to be full of that. Could also stand for Confederate States of America, and probably three things in medicine. Sometimes disambiguation is very needful...
L.
My usual one is IPA -- I'm always talking about the International Phonetic Alphabet, what is this 'beer' of which you speak? :D
Hmm rather the opposite of babying the reader, when I see an author include Content Notes, I feel like they respect me as a reader and I am much more likely to read difficult content this way because I trust that they are being intentional about how they write about difficult topics rather than just including them for shock value as some authors do. Content Notes aren't about criticising a work, they are about giving reader the tools to enter into a book in a way that is better for their mental health. I do think it's best when an author does so themselves. But I also always add Content Notes to my reviews bc that's information I wish more people would share.
This seems unnecessary to me. If I want to to be warned about a book before reading, I look through the reviews here on Goodreads, which provide more detailed information than a bunch of 'markers' would.
All such warnings have to be interpreted sceptically, because our responses to fiction are subjective: any particular content will affect different readers differently.
I am always wondering what is considered "unpleasant" reading - for me unpleasant is when the author can't write, with or without "content notes". On the other hand, for those traumatized - some sort of a safe encounter with the trauma, as happens in good literature, should be very recreational. It has been for me. On the subject ot Elena's mother in particular - these things happen in military conflicts. Unplesant it is, but pretending it never happened is more in the resort of blunt hypocricy. If one is not in the mood for "Shards of Honor", one can always pick up "A Civil Campaign". I would never skip one for the other.
>>> "And there are certain expectations for genre. So I think and author can do their readership a disservice by violating the rules of a genre (the romance doesn't end happily; a murderer is never caught) for example."
This really bugs me. I'd NEVER buy a book if I know exactly how it begins, what happens in the middle and how it ends. For the record - i've read some excellent, fantastic, lasting romances which indeed did not end happily at all. Why are we even discussing this?
Brzk: I reread books that I like. When I reread a book, I already know at least the outline of the story, though I may have forgotten the details since the last time I read it. So I don't place any value on surprise.
In the old days, when I wasn't sure whether to buy a book in a bookshop, I would pick it up and read the beginning, the ending, and a random piece from the middle. The ending of a novel is particularly significant: if I don't like the ending, I don't want to get involved in the rest of the book.
These days, I normally buy books from Amazon, so I can read only the beginning before buying.
Well Jonathan, most people do not buy books blindly. It is not an act of randomness. I was commenting on the genre expectations remark made by Jacqueline above, which is why I quoted her - that deviating from the established structure of a "genre novel" would be a disservice to the reader. I vehemently do not agree with this line of thinking, on the contrary - "exploring the boundaries of a genre", or openly crossing them, or fusing genres, or turning them on their heads, is an interesting approach that requires vision and talent. The more literary experiments, the better.
If we are sharing personal experiences - I still visit bookshops once in a while. From a very early age though I make a conscious effort not to read a book's ending while still in the bookshop. I make a few exceptions when I want to prove a point, but this happens at a much later time, at home. I even consider it rude to enter a bookshop, to open a book, to hold it in my hands for 10+ minutes until I can read 3-5 pages from the beginning, middle and end, and to then put it back. Different people, different habits, obviously.
Brzk: I was also surprised by Jacqueline's comments; she doesn't speak for me. However, if some readers want to read fiction that sticks to a particular formula, I suppose they're entitled to their preferences.
I doubt that I would have spent 10+ minutes sampling a book before making a decision about it; but it seems to me the whole point of visiting a bookshop is that you can pick up books and look at them before buying. Otherwise, you might just as well sit at home and order them.
I also order books :). Another thing I do is fill out a questionnaire and then have books sent to me by a bookshop - interestingly haven't been disappointed so far, or not by much. What's your point? That if I only spend 5 minutes (not 10) reading a book's ending, and if I find something in the last two pages that doesn't suit me, and return it to the shelf and not buy it, that's OK? You are right! This is why there are cover styles, markings, stickers ("award winning!!!"), back covers with blurbs, book reviews, and many more (the prefaces to Jane Austen's novels can be quite extensive). Your method of reading "the beginning, the ending, and a random piece from the middle" sounded a fair bit more thorough for my liking, but now we are clear that you don't actually read all those bits but just have a look before deciding on your purchase - we are in perfect unison and agreement!
Brzk: I suppose it should be up to the bookseller to decide the rules for evaluating books in his or her bookshop. Some may prefer that you don't open the book at all, but most booksellers don't seem to mind if you read a few pages. Exactly how much is a reasonable amount is a matter of opinion, but the bookseller's opinion seems the most relevant.
Amazon normally allows you to read more than a few pages of a book without buying it, but only from the beginning.
As always Lois has said it all before the commenting even began.
I read a very misguided review of The Shards (of Honor) once which was complaining about the "worst romance of all time" or something :D. Some 20 years after I first read it I can now fully (I think) appreciate the magnitude of the said romance. As a teeanger I was more focused on other aspects of the story, it seems. So this is an example of a book that CAN be tagged very wrongly.
If I'd been warned about content in a fantasy novel that I read recently, it wouldn't have done me any good at all. The issue was years and years in my past, and I didn't even know it was still painful until I read it. Also, if I had realized and refrained from reading it, I would have missed a really good book!
Ha. I see "Ask the Internet" has come through -- someone has set up a presumably reader-produced trigger warning database, so authors and publishers may be relieved of that tangled puzzle.
I can't post a link here in the comments, but look for: triggerwarningdatabase
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Refreshing POV ! I'm getting tired of the endless tagging and people taking issue about it. I sometimes jump into a book years after having buying it without reading the back cover because it's nice to let the writer take us on a journey without someone else meddlesome selling words. Huh. That's what I guess it feels like for me. Over-meddling.
Coming from fanfic, tagging can be more of a way of advertising than warning. For literary fiction, I would be relieved to not have to just assume that every time there's a mysterious family was a dark secret, the dark secret was CSA.
XDD I had to ask what TLA was a TLA for. CSA is Childhood Sexual Abuse.
@ Cara, ah yes, thanks. Some sectors of fiction do seem to be full of that. Could also stand for Confederate States of America, and probably three things in medicine. Sometimes disambiguation is very needful...L.
My usual one is IPA -- I'm always talking about the International Phonetic Alphabet, what is this 'beer' of which you speak? :D
Hmm rather the opposite of babying the reader, when I see an author include Content Notes, I feel like they respect me as a reader and I am much more likely to read difficult content this way because I trust that they are being intentional about how they write about difficult topics rather than just including them for shock value as some authors do. Content Notes aren't about criticising a work, they are about giving reader the tools to enter into a book in a way that is better for their mental health. I do think it's best when an author does so themselves. But I also always add Content Notes to my reviews bc that's information I wish more people would share.
This seems unnecessary to me. If I want to to be warned about a book before reading, I look through the reviews here on Goodreads, which provide more detailed information than a bunch of 'markers' would.All such warnings have to be interpreted sceptically, because our responses to fiction are subjective: any particular content will affect different readers differently.
I am always wondering what is considered "unpleasant" reading - for me unpleasant is when the author can't write, with or without "content notes". On the other hand, for those traumatized - some sort of a safe encounter with the trauma, as happens in good literature, should be very recreational. It has been for me. On the subject ot Elena's mother in particular - these things happen in military conflicts. Unplesant it is, but pretending it never happened is more in the resort of blunt hypocricy. If one is not in the mood for "Shards of Honor", one can always pick up "A Civil Campaign". I would never skip one for the other.
>>> "And there are certain expectations for genre. So I think and author can do their readership a disservice by violating the rules of a genre (the romance doesn't end happily; a murderer is never caught) for example."This really bugs me. I'd NEVER buy a book if I know exactly how it begins, what happens in the middle and how it ends. For the record - i've read some excellent, fantastic, lasting romances which indeed did not end happily at all. Why are we even discussing this?
Brzk: I reread books that I like. When I reread a book, I already know at least the outline of the story, though I may have forgotten the details since the last time I read it. So I don't place any value on surprise.In the old days, when I wasn't sure whether to buy a book in a bookshop, I would pick it up and read the beginning, the ending, and a random piece from the middle. The ending of a novel is particularly significant: if I don't like the ending, I don't want to get involved in the rest of the book.
These days, I normally buy books from Amazon, so I can read only the beginning before buying.
Well Jonathan, most people do not buy books blindly. It is not an act of randomness. I was commenting on the genre expectations remark made by Jacqueline above, which is why I quoted her - that deviating from the established structure of a "genre novel" would be a disservice to the reader. I vehemently do not agree with this line of thinking, on the contrary - "exploring the boundaries of a genre", or openly crossing them, or fusing genres, or turning them on their heads, is an interesting approach that requires vision and talent. The more literary experiments, the better.If we are sharing personal experiences - I still visit bookshops once in a while. From a very early age though I make a conscious effort not to read a book's ending while still in the bookshop. I make a few exceptions when I want to prove a point, but this happens at a much later time, at home. I even consider it rude to enter a bookshop, to open a book, to hold it in my hands for 10+ minutes until I can read 3-5 pages from the beginning, middle and end, and to then put it back. Different people, different habits, obviously.
Brzk: I was also surprised by Jacqueline's comments; she doesn't speak for me. However, if some readers want to read fiction that sticks to a particular formula, I suppose they're entitled to their preferences.I doubt that I would have spent 10+ minutes sampling a book before making a decision about it; but it seems to me the whole point of visiting a bookshop is that you can pick up books and look at them before buying. Otherwise, you might just as well sit at home and order them.
I also order books :). Another thing I do is fill out a questionnaire and then have books sent to me by a bookshop - interestingly haven't been disappointed so far, or not by much. What's your point? That if I only spend 5 minutes (not 10) reading a book's ending, and if I find something in the last two pages that doesn't suit me, and return it to the shelf and not buy it, that's OK? You are right! This is why there are cover styles, markings, stickers ("award winning!!!"), back covers with blurbs, book reviews, and many more (the prefaces to Jane Austen's novels can be quite extensive). Your method of reading "the beginning, the ending, and a random piece from the middle" sounded a fair bit more thorough for my liking, but now we are clear that you don't actually read all those bits but just have a look before deciding on your purchase - we are in perfect unison and agreement!
Brzk: I suppose it should be up to the bookseller to decide the rules for evaluating books in his or her bookshop. Some may prefer that you don't open the book at all, but most booksellers don't seem to mind if you read a few pages. Exactly how much is a reasonable amount is a matter of opinion, but the bookseller's opinion seems the most relevant.Amazon normally allows you to read more than a few pages of a book without buying it, but only from the beginning.
As always Lois has said it all before the commenting even began.I read a very misguided review of The Shards (of Honor) once which was complaining about the "worst romance of all time" or something :D. Some 20 years after I first read it I can now fully (I think) appreciate the magnitude of the said romance. As a teeanger I was more focused on other aspects of the story, it seems. So this is an example of a book that CAN be tagged very wrongly.
If I'd been warned about content in a fantasy novel that I read recently, it wouldn't have done me any good at all. The issue was years and years in my past, and I didn't even know it was still painful until I read it. Also, if I had realized and refrained from reading it, I would have missed a really good book!
Ha. I see "Ask the Internet" has come through -- someone has set up a presumably reader-produced trigger warning database, so authors and publishers may be relieved of that tangled puzzle.I can't post a link here in the comments, but look for: triggerwarningdatabase
Most readers tend to read by genre. I know I do. And there are certain expectations for genre. So I think and author can do their readership a disservice by violating the rules of a genre (the romance doesn't end happily; a murderer is never caught) for example. I also think "shock value" is way over rated. On the other hand, there is such a thing as ***context***.