Sun > Status Update

Thebomb wrote: "they could just try the MF market. see what happens to them -_-

it will be obvious who's them btw, just be on the lookout for new mysterious MF author"

Should we warn them?

Amazonaute wrote: "There is a bit of a discussion up thread of the issues around pursuing SH legally.

Their long con is done. I can only see them reappearing under a completely new identity."

Unfortunately the audio books are still coming out. One was released just the other day, so it is still worth letting people know.

Charming wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "they could just try the MF market. see what happens to them -_-

it will be obvious who's them btw, just be on the lookout for new mysterious MF author"

Should we warn them?"

they'll know

Nicki wrote: "Another suggestion for not giving positive advertising to this author. i love the the m/m new releases list. It only just occurred to me to go back and remove my votes for SH books. A lot of theirs..."

Good thinking! I'm removing my votes now :)

Chris wrote: "Nicki wrote: "Another suggestion for not giving positive advertising to this author. i love the the m/m new releases list. It only just occurred to me to go back and remove my votes for SH books. A..."

: )

While audible may not have removed the audio books from their site I would say that the staff of audible.com have made their view very clear with this clip from their 'Weekly Sound Off' that is sent to members via e-mail...

Speaking of drama:
While writing under a pseudonym to preserve your anonymity is one thing, for some romance fans, branding yourself as someone completely different than who you are crosses the line into catfishing your audience. The romance world has been in upheaval after Santino Hassell (reputedly one of the only queer men writing in the LGBTQ romance genre) was reportedly outed as a woman, and is now being accused of manipulation, use of fans’ personal stories and information without permission, and other identity issues. The print publisher has distanced itself, and Hassell has retreated into silence after an official post on his website. As with so many things online, the trail is hard to follow, but one thing is certain: using your pseudonym to falsely represent yourself to readers as a member of a marginalized group is not ok. Just ask JT LeRoy...

Karen wrote: "While audible may not have removed the audio books from their site I would say that the staff of audible.com has made their view very clear with this clip from their 'Weekly Sound Off' that is sent..."

Wow, I wouldn’t have expected that. I don’t get their emails other than the daily deal, so I missed this. Thanks for sharing.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Karen wrote: "While audible may not have removed the audio books from their site I would say that the staff of audible.com has made their view very clear with this clip from their 'Weekly Sound Off..."

I was really happy to see this as I'd written to them over a week ago and had heard nothing back so I was less than happy when it seemed like they were going to take an "ignore it and it'll go away stance" I have no idea if this has anything to do with what I or anyone else may have written and honestly it doesn't matter, I'm truly just happy to see that there was a statement acknowledging that what this/these author(s) did was wrong.

Has anyone on this thread who is a member of Patreon heard anything back from them?? I keep emailing and hear absolutely nothing...meanwhile, SH's Patreon stays constant at 257 members, so I can only assume that those people know what's been going on, but don't give a f**k anyway...nice. 🙁

Bev wrote: "Has anyone on this thread who is a member of Patreon heard anything back from them?? I keep emailing and hear absolutely nothing...meanwhile, SH's Patreon stays constant at 257 members, so I can on..."

Nope, I've reported it multiple times now with numerous links to all the publishers statements, the Twitter, this thread etc, and have heard absolutely nothing.

Might be time to get visible on their Twitter and Facebook pages?

Bev wrote: "Has anyone on this thread who is a member of Patreon heard anything back from them?? I keep emailing and hear absolutely nothing...meanwhile, SH's Patreon stays constant at 257 members, so I can on..."

That isn't fair, a lot of people probably either haven't heard anything or may not understand the severity of the issue and think this is mostly about the identity of the author. I'd keep letting people know politely or they'll have no reason to listen to what's being said and better reasons to listen to SH.

SH is still top of a lot of m/m reading lists, which will only encourage people to try and get hold of copies. Amazon U.K. and audible U.K. are still selling copies of some of these books, so if you want to give them less positive publicity, I'd suggest voting for your actual favourites. Otherwise anyone who hasn't heard about this, including new readers to the genre, can't be blamed for thinking that this is the best author to buy and will be encouraged towards Patron too.


January 2018 MM releases Down by Contact number 1

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Sightlines number 3
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Illegal Contact number 1
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Mature Content number 1 Oversight number 3

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Insight number 1
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

The placement is dependent entirely on votes, some with as little as 47. So, if you don't believe these books should be at the top, you need to vote for the ones you think do.

I've done this repeatedly now and voted up other books.

Nicki wrote: "Bev wrote: "Has anyone on this thread who is a member of Patreon heard anything back from them?? I keep emailing and hear absolutely nothing...meanwhile, SH's Patreon stays constant at 257 members,..."

Not really sure what you think is unfair.... SH has flouted Patreon's own code of User Conduct in several different ways [I'm sure they wouldn't be as lenient if it were you or I], and as the story has made it into mainstream press in the US and was all over Twitter, you'd have to have been buried with your head in the sand not to have picked something up.

Patreon's Terms of Use :-

Illegal Activities - Don’t break the law or encourage others to break the law.
Abuse - Don’t harass or bully others, or promote violence or hatred towards others.
Personal Information - Don’t distribute others’ personal information or otherwise abuse it. Creators with access to their patrons’ personal information should not use it for anything unrelated to Patreon.
Fraud - Don’t post information that is false or otherwise misleading.
Impersonation - Don’t impersonate anyone. Don’t use another’s account, or allow others to use your account.
Username Squatting - Don’t create an account to prevent others from using the name or to sell the name.
Intellectual Property - Don’t infringe on others’ intellectual property rights.

As far as I can tell, they are in violation of #2, 3 & 4 without a doubt.

Cadiva wrote: "I've done this repeatedly now and voted up other books."

Me too.

Cadiva wrote: "I've done this repeatedly now and voted up other books."

:)

Bev wrote: "Cadiva wrote: "I've done this repeatedly now and voted up other books."

Me too."

:)

Bev wrote: "As far as I can tell, they are in violation of #2, 3 & 4 without a doubt."

The Patreon issue I think is that the TOS most likely applies to activity on the site. Is SH using Patreon to do these things is, I think, what Patreon would be checking into and ruling on.

I highly doubt Patreon cares that he's a big name in the MM world. But they will want to ensure if they remove him for TOS violations they won't be handing him cause for a lawsuit.

(sorry, just using "him" for convenience here).

Bev wrote: "Nicki wrote: "Bev wrote: "Has anyone on this thread who is a member of Patreon heard anything back from them?? I keep emailing and hear absolutely nothing...meanwhile, SH's Patreon stays constant a..."

No, I agree about Patron but think it is unfair to assume everyone supporting SH on there knows what's going on. After all the fuss i've seen about things I would consider unimportant as a reader, it's quite possible that people honestly don't know. I think a friend must have been in on this conversation for me to get notified and we know all this information because people like yourself have shared it on here but I still wouldn't have known what was going on without this update. I hope that quite a few of those people may not have a clue whats going on still.

Nicki wrote: "No, I agree about Patron but think it is unfair to assume everyone supporting SH on there knows what's going on. ..."

I'd buy that argument if it wasn't for the fact that "Santino" has posted about it on Patreon (in a highly sanitised totally absorbing themselves from any blame fashion) so there clearly are people who have heard "some" of the story and still choose to ignore the lying and the manipulation.

Cadiva wrote: "Nicki wrote: "No, I agree about Patron but think it is unfair to assume everyone supporting SH on there knows what's going on. ..."

I'd buy that argument if it wasn't for the fact that "Santino" h..."

^^^^ this.

Alexandra wrote: "Bev wrote: "As far as I can tell, they are in violation of #2, 3 & 4 without a doubt."

The Patreon issue I think is that the TOS most likely applies to activity on the site. Is SH using Patreon to..."

And we all know they love to threaten lawsuits!! 😠

Bev wrote: "And we all know they love to threaten lawsuits!!"

LOL yup. I'd be very surprised if Patreon removed "him". Very pleasantly surprised, sure, but surprised.

Karen wrote: "While audible may not have removed the audio books from their site I would say that the staff of audible.com have made their view very clear with this clip from their 'Weekly Sound Off' that is sen..."

Wow!! That's a pretty clear statement!! I hope that means they are actually working on removing the audiobooks now, too!! Thanks for sharing, Karen!! I didn't get this email either. I wrote Tantor Media but so far I haven't heard anything from them so I hope this is a step in the right direction :)

Josy wrote: "Karen wrote: "While audible may not have removed the audio books from their site I would say that the staff of audible.com have made their view very clear with this clip from their 'Weekly Sound Of..."

At the very least I'm hoping that people who see this will decide against supporting someone who's so obviously lacking in morals, ethics or compassion. It'd be nice if they took the books down but there's also a certain sense of satisfaction to the idea that they'll just sit there until they disappear because people are choosing not to buy them.

Call me an optimistic but the idea that people would choose to do the right thing by not supporting this author vs having the choice made for them, while I admit it's an idealistic thought, it also holds a gratifying sense because every time someone chooses not to buy books by Santino Hassell and other authors like this what they're doing is they're saying to the people who have been used and hurt by them...
"I believe in you and your feelings matter. I refuse to support the predators of this world at the expense of good and decent people like you. You are not alone."

At least I know that's the message I'm sending when I make that choice and honestly even when I look at my books or my audio's for something to read I haven't deleted any of them from my library and I just look at them in their little folder labelled 'Not if you were the last book on earth' and smile because they remind me that for all the crap that is out there in this world there are people like Susan and so many others who are bravely trying to make the world a better place, at what I think is a considerable personal cost to themselves in ways that I'm sure many of us can't even really begin to fathom and then there are those who come to their aide and let them know that they are needed, believed and appreciated as so many people here have done and those like Heidi Cullinan and TJ Klune who step up and add what they can to try and make things right again...so as much as I wish...desperately wish that this had never happened it's also been an amazing reminder that for all that is wrong in this world there is so much that is beautiful and right and I find myself looking at books by SH and wondering 'was it really worth it for you? You could have had it all and now all you can do is watch as it gets ripped away.' It's a very satisfying thought. I'm not vindictive but I do believe that what goes around, comes around for all of us and I think that's the end of my preachy moment for today...sorry, but sometimes you just have to say what's in your heart. *hugs for everyone*

It's probably wrong to wonder, but I can't be the only one to do so. Can the books remain while the authors are relegated to Anonymous? Because I liked the books, but the SH-pseudonym authors don't deserve acknowledgement in this particular case. On the super-negative flip side, this kind of thing would probably end up resulting in authors being removed from books that they absolutely deserved acknowledgement and, especially, royalties for. Guh!

[Edit: Should add that I read it when it was free online years and years ago]

What if the flesh-and-blood authors write again under a different pseudonym and pull another scam? Is that preventable? Would probably have to be taken to Civil Court to get peoples' money back to them. Such a stupid, stinking quagmire.

Meghan wrote: "It's probably wrong to wonder, but I can't be the only one to do so. Can the books remain while the authors are relegated to Anonymous? Because I liked the books, but the SH-pseudonym authors don't..."

Not sure that's possible but given that the authors used personal information told to them in confidence by people who mistakenly thought they were talking to a friend and they never gave their permission for those details to be shared and thus profited from I no longer have the interest or desire to read anything by this author.

I know if one of my friends did this to me, I'd feel so betrayed just devastated.

Meghan wrote: "It's probably wrong to wonder, but I can't be the only one to do so. Can the books remain while the authors are relegated to Anonymous? Because I liked the books, but the SH-pseudonym authors don't..."

Are you asking about the In the Company of Shadows books with Ais? I have mixed feelings about these since Ais herself was a victim of SH. Reading her statement of what SH did to her over the years just broke my heart.
I don't know the answer for these. I just feel really badly for her.

Lex wrote: " Meghan wrote: "It's probably wrong to wonder, but I can't be the only one to do so. Can the books remain while the authors are relegated to Anonymous? Because I liked the books, but the SH-pseudon..."

I think you have a lot of company on that. I loved ICoS and can't bring myself to take down my reviews for them because Ais was one of the authors. Sometimes I think it's not a case of right and wrong but of each individual following their heart and their conscience.

Rebecca wrote: "...I do think that the predators known as SH did fill a bit of a gap in the literature (part of their strategy, no doubt) and the more authors we can promote in that realm, the less folks will feel the need to look to SH books “despite” the author’s behavior. Just a thought."

That would be ideal! We basically need to fill our genre with lots of well-written books so that this thing just fades away. It will over time, but for the people who were affected IRL there will be a lot more involved to recover, to heal. How do we support them? How much do we do? These are obviously personal questions that each of us are probably asking ourselves right now. We have an abundance of caring in our group. That alone is comforting to me.

Also, sorry my post #2373 wasn't clear. I'm referring to ICoS with Ais as the co-writer/primary author. I've got to go back to find her statement. Anyway I guess it would be up to her what she wanted to happen with that. It seems like any publishing contracts should be considered broken by SH. Would that allow her to re-publish it as the primary author? Or is SH likely to sue. Which is probably likely given what I've read about them so far.

Meghan wrote: "Also, sorry my post #2373 wasn't clear. I'm referring to ICoS with Ais as the co-writer/primary author. I've got to go back to find her statement. Anyway I guess it would be up to her what she wanted to happen with that. It seems like any publishing contracts should be considered broken by SH. Would that allow her to re-publish it as the primary author? Or is SH likely to sue. Which is probably likely given what I've read about them so far. "

Regardless of publishing contracts, Ais couldn't republish claiming to be sole author, or without SH's agreement and consent. It's still a fact that SH did in fact write parts of these stories, and retains the same rights of them as anyone would.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems the best Ais could do would be to try to get SH to give up publishing rights so that Ais could republish as she chose and receive all monetary profit - if any, but even then SH would still have to be credited. If for no other reason than it'd be misleading for her to claim she wrote them alone.

So no, she couldn't republish without SH's consent, and even if she got that she couldn't claim sole authorship.

I had just known all about this debacle by searching for him in Twitter, as I found it odd he was not as active in promoting his stuff anymore and...I am just heartbroken right now...

WOW, I really really liked this author but now I don't know how to feel. I just found out about them a few months back and noticed that the books where online so I read them. But seeing how things have turned out I will not be supporting them at all. This is absolutely disgusting that someone would do something like this. I lost a dear friend to cancer and have also known someone who lied about cancer just to get money from people just as this person did. She screwed me over big time and all because I wanted to help her after losing a loved one to cancer. I miss her every day and to know that there are people in the world who would lie about such things for fame and money.

This whole fiasco was so unnecessary. SH, whoever the writer actually is, is a good writer and had plenty of fans. He (I use the pronoun for convenience although possibly inaccurate) didn’t need to orchestrate all this bs around himself. Why do people do this crap...

Anna (Bananas!) wrote: "This whole fiasco was so unnecessary. SH, whoever the writer actually is, is a good writer and had plenty of fans. He (I use the pronoun for convenience although possibly inaccurate) didn’t need to..."

Would it be more accurate to call SH a good storyteller rather than a good writer, since it was just recycling others' stories?

Shelby wrote: "Would it be more accurate to call SH a good storyteller rather than a good writer, since it was just recycling others' stories?"

Probably.

Shelby wrote: "Anna (Bananas!) wrote: "This whole fiasco was so unnecessary. SH, whoever the writer actually is, is a good writer and had plenty of fans. He (I use the pronoun for convenience although possibly in..."

Whose stories was "he" recycling? I've heard lots of horrid things about "him" but I was under the impression the actual books weren't the problem (just everything else, lol)

ETA: I remember the Cyberlove one now. Were there others too?

Ginger wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Anna (Bananas!) wrote: "This whole fiasco was so unnecessary. SH, whoever the writer actually is, is a good writer and had plenty of fans. He (I use the pronoun for convenience altho..."

https://twitter.com/sweetsakuradoll?l...

Especially Noah's story is horrifying (picture number 4 on the twitter account).

Line wrote: "Ginger wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Anna (Bananas!) wrote: "This whole fiasco was so unnecessary. SH, whoever the writer actually is, is a good writer and had plenty of fans. He (I use the pronoun for co..."

Right. There is also info about it in this thread.

Jessica wrote: "WOW, I really really liked this author but now I don't know how to feel. I just found out about them a few months back and noticed that the books where online so I read them. But seeing how things ..."
I feel bad for all the people who were scammed by this SH character. Is/are the person/people behind "SH" being prosecuted for this fraud? I think the defrauded victims' best course of action would be to file a class-action lawsuit, not unlike what the financial victims of Madoff did (albeit on a smaller scale here, but the lies about cancer et al. to garner sympathy are specious and reprehensible). I'm not a lawyer; I'm a real-life Goodreads author in the 'mainstream' (reality-based) M/M Romance genre, but I'm pretty sure that the fraud which "SH" and his creator/s perpetrated is criminally prosecutable. It makes me mad to hear about such abuse. Doing such things is tantamount to calling up old people and trying to defraud them of their identities or Social Security benefits because they are particularly trusting or compassionate. I am a legitimate author who writes real, thought-provoking literature. I'm struggling to sell books here, while frauds like "SH" and his ilk have gotten major publicity and book deals. What's wrong with this picture? Perhaps we should refer to 'him' as "SMH" in regret. The real, sincere, honest authors deserve a rabid fanbase.

Yours truly,
Michael Elias

I don't know if anyone had brought this up, but Hassell is trying to get "Third Rail" out there again. Fun fun. Just hoping the whole thing would blow over?

Lyra wrote: "I don't know if anyone had brought this up, but Hassell is trying to get "Third Rail" out there again. Fun fun. Just hoping the whole thing would blow over?"

It was never taken off of Instafreebie and I think it’s also still available from some sellers as a free book.

SH has also just recently finished posting chapters of North Shore on Patreon so idk if they’re going to try self-publishing or something else next? Plus now posting chapters of final 5B book and still posting chapters from Use of Hands or w/e it was titled.

Laura wrote: "Lyra wrote: "I don't know if anyone had brought this up, but Hassell is trying to get "Third Rail" out there again. Fun fun. Just hoping the whole thing would blow over?"

It was never taken off of..."
Glorious.

I have no clue how instafreebie works but they were tagged at twitter by a few people and immediately made sure that the book won't be promoted anymore (at least that's what they said). They also said that this was passed along to the content review team but that they can't promise that the account will be removed from the site.
https://twitter.com/DecentFellows/sta...

Her books are still on Overdrive and I keep seeing them on the main page whenever I log into my library's site.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Her books are still on Overdrive and I keep seeing them on the main page whenever I log into my library's site."

Still on Hoopla as well.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Her books are still on Overdrive and I keep seeing them on the main page whenever I log into my library's site."

The same for me.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Her books are still on Overdrive and I keep seeing them on the main page whenever I log into my library's site."

Lisa ~ Books Are My Drugs ~ wrote: "Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Her books are still on Overdrive and I keep seeing them on the main page whenever I log into my library's site."

The same for me."

Teal wrote: "Still on Hoopla as well."


Yeah, libraries have always been staunch defenders of books against the militant moral mobs that want them wiped from existence. Thank fuck. :D

Just saw this on Fb. Cole is one of my fave authors, and to have this happen to him...well, it just beggars belief as to what some people will do. I'm SO glad I'm rarely on social media.

http://blackmagicblues.com/take-a-sea...

Whoever these 'Angry Birds' are, they need stopping...every last one of them. 😠😠😠😠😠

Bev wrote: "Just saw this on Fb. Cole is one of my fave authors, and to have this happen to him...well, it just beggars belief as to what some people will do. I'm SO glad I'm rarely on social media.

http://bl..."

Caution might be a good thing to have right now.
And to listen to ALL the side.
The similarities to what happened a year ago with Santino and here are scary.
I still remember SH's post about people threatening him, threatening to out him, people jealous and whatsoever. I remember all "his" fanbase jumping to "defend" him by dragging his "so call" abusers. People insulting them, threatening them.. To find out a 1 year later he manipulate the narrative, he lied and all. To find out the people he accused of all the horrible shit he said were actually the people who were trying to tell the truth about the whole SH shit show.
So, this time, maybe, we can take the time to listen to more than one side.. Before jumping to horrible conclusions.
So many people said during the SH's shit show they wished they had at least tried to listen to the "other side".
Btw, the "nasty bird" are the one who exposed SH for who they are.
And they did respond on twitter.