Sun > Status Update

Josy wrote: "Karen wrote: "Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven her and I'm no..."

Wait, wait, wait, are you talking about me Dani???

I'm not really sure what's going on w/Berkley, honestly. I do know SMP is getting A LOT of pushback on cancelling the contract. Many MANY people are begging them not to cancel the contract so maybe that? Honestly, I've no idea. I would think that a multitude of people saying the same thing would sway them to at least make a statement. Even something as banal as saying they've heard the rumors & are independently investigating.

Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry b..."

Nope, not just your's I totally agree with what you're saying. Like it or not as a company or public image of any kind they are and should be held to a higher standard.

Josy wrote: "I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers."

In regards to your "spoiler" (I'll be brief as to hopefully not derail this convo)

(view spoiler)[Yes, some readers behave badly. Absolutely. However, IMO, that is a completely different and separate issue.

"A reader doesn't need to make a nasty comment on an author's appearance for example. Or about how much they hate all the books they've read by them. You don't like a book? Look for another one or another author."

Nasty comment on an author's appearance - agreed. That falls under my "completely different and separate issue" statement though.

However, if a reader doesn't like a book they are free to say so, and should feel free to say so. Up to and including stating they hate all of them. A reader gets to do that. Full stop.

And an author, or other readers, would not have the right to attack them for it, or attempt to silence them, or hold a campaign to have a bunch of people downvote their review(s).

Authors try to convince readers that they shouldn't express negative opinions about books, because that is in the author's best interest for consumers to be trained to think so. It's wrong. Readers have the right to express negative opinions about books, if they want, whenever they want, as much as they want. Period.

Yes, authors are humans, and humans screw up. I don't believe that changes what I've said about how authors should behave, and how readers should expect they behave. A screw up is different than a attitude and pattern of behavior. IMO. (hide spoiler)]

Sorry, that turned out to not be quite as brief as I intended. :) Susan, feel free to delete.

Karen wrote: "Nope, not just your's I totally agree with what you're saying. Like it or not as a company or public image of any kind they are and should be held to a higher standard. "

:D

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "Wait, wait, wait, are you talking about me Dani??? ."

Yes, we are :)
Sloane Kennedy and her FB rant came up and I said she's off my tbr-list because of that and Karen said and then I said the comment you responded to and here we are :)

Josy wrote: "Karen wrote: "Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven her and I'm no..."

Sweetie, I was talking in very generic terms and I think I definitely know you well enough to know that your decisions are always well thought out and based on as much fact as you can find. You truly are one of the kindest and most thoughtful people I have ever had the privilege of knowing.

(view spoiler)[That you would be bothered about something even though the person that was slighted had moved on from the incident just goes to show what a loyal and generous heart you have and lastly I never in any way thought that you were indicating that Dani was responsible for you choice. You just keep being you darlin' because you is awesome. (hide spoiler)]

Optimist ♰King's Wench♰ & MANTIES Champion wrote: "I'm not really sure what's going on w/Berkley, honestly. I do know SMP is getting A LOT of pushback on cancelling the contract. Many MANY people are begging them not to cancel the contract so maybe..."

Yes, I'm waiting for them to even acknowledge it. I didn't hear that there are so many people begging them to still publish the books. Is this happening on twitter?

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "Josy wrote: "Karen wrote: "Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven h..."

Well I did say 'awesome' lol, yes. It was in regards to the Sloane Kennedy review that you did you know the 'guilty pleasure' comment that the author took offence over.

Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers."

In regards to your "spoiler" (I'll be brief as to hop..."

(view spoiler)[Yes, I agree when it comes to your or mine or anyone opinion about books. Maybe some reviews don't need to be so nasty but even that is the reviewers choice. My argument regarding the books clearly wasn't my best one :)
What I don't agree with is attacking an author as a person or anyone really because I don't like their hair or their new beard or whatever. I can understand that an author, although a business, might have a hard time to react cordially or not at all.
Thank you for your thoughts! Sometimes I "forget" that authors and their books is a business and that they need to be held to a higher standard. (hide spoiler)]

Mónica wrote: "Nope. Not just that.
She also has a small thread on which she confirms she knows another story very similar to Noah's, about having found personal details of actual real life happenings between her friend and Hassell that turned up on the Cyberlove books. That's how she became first linked to the Hassell situation."

Thanks for clarifying, Monica. I'd seen that thread but couldn't remember the details (and I've blocked Twitter today to restore a bit of sanity, so I couldn't look it up) and didn't mention it for fear of getting them wrong. My recollection was that she hadn't been involved until the Noah story came out Friday morning, at which point she related her past conversation with her friend who'd had a similar experience with SH. I guess I hadn't really considered that a formal connection in the same way the other Courtney had been connected.

But yeah, she's been amazing, in this and so many other situations.

Josy wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers."

In regards to your "spoiler" (I'll ..."

(view spoiler)[

I am in basic agreement with you Josy. I just think the issue of how authors should treat readers is separate from how some may treat authors. Because the positions are very different. I've seen people try to use the "but readers do it too!" thing to try to justify it, excuse it, or make it seem equal, when authors behave badly toward readers. It's not the same thing. Doesn't mean it's ok.

And, yes, even authors can, and do, make mistakes. :D (hide spoiler)]

@ Anne-Marie--Thanks so much for the data on links--such a huge help for us non-technologically gifted old hippies. :) And thanks to you, Cadiva, Josy, and everyone who sent condolences. Means more than you'll ever know.

Susan, thank you so much for letting me clutter up your updates page, and thank you to all for shedding so much light on this issue.

Karen wrote: "Sweetie, I was talking in very generic terms and I think I definitely know you well enough to know that your decisions are always well thought out and based on as much fact as you can find..."

Awww!! Thank you ~blushes~ <3<3 You spoil me with your kind words :)
(view spoiler)[I thought you meant my decision specifically and that's why I explained how this decision came to be :) And I just wanted to make it clear that Dani had nothing to do with this decision and that it was solely based on author's bad behavior. Maybe I should look up her apology, though. If Dani forgave her, and she was the one involved, I can maybe forgive her, too :) That's the problem with not being overly active on SM. You catch a bad thing but might miss the good thing that comes after that and because of that, you have no chance of reconsidering. (hide spoiler)]

Josy wrote: "What are your thoughts on Berkley's and St Martin's silence? Are they even looking at this or are they simply ignoring everything in the hopes it all will die down?"

Berkley and St Martin's, being part of bigger conglomerates, no doubt have more layers of red tape and decision-making to wade through before taking action. For now I'm interpreting their inaction as caution rather than indifference. But that just means they need to be pressured more, because sooner or later, they need to act.

The key is getting the story out to more mainstream media and to get more authors outside the genre discussing it, especially those who publish at those companies.

Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers."

In regards to your "sp..."

(view spoiler)["I've seen people try to use the "but readers do it too!" thing to try to justify it, excuse it, or make it seem equal, when authors behave badly toward readers. It's not the same thing."

We can certainly agree on this! It's definitely not the same thing and that is just a dumb, unprofessional excuse. (hide spoiler)]

Josy wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Josy wrote: "I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers."

In r..."

Fistbump!

Avery wrote: "Josy wrote: "What are your thoughts on Berkley's and St Martin's silence? Are they even looking at this or are they simply ignoring everything in the hopes it all will die down?"

Berkley and St Ma..."

IMO, in addition to contacting them, getting the word out more broadly, etc. I think making sure the message goes out that readers of this genre, in large number, will no longer be buying books by this person will have an impact. Perhaps have the most impact.

As a consumer the best thing to do is to not buy the books (those here have that one covered), advise others what is going on so hopefully they won't buy the books, and let the publishers know why readers won't/aren't buying the books.

Even if the books aren't pulled, they can still die out there, with few, if any, sales. And that will be a strong message to the publishers that they will definitely hear.

The demand side of the equation is where consumers have the most power and influence.

Karen wrote: "Well I did say 'awesome' lol, yes. It was in regards to the Sloane Kennedy review that you did you know the 'guilty pleasure' comment that the author took offence over."

Ah okay. And, sorry, but what was the discussion? I can't keep up anymore. For my part, I want to say that Sloane Kennedy taking offense to my comment and letting others say derogatory things about me wasn't cool, but it's forgivable, and there's absolutely NO comparison the the latest SH fiasco and the behavior of his posse.

Avery wrote: "Berkley and St Martin's, being part of bigger conglomerates, no doubt have more layers of red tape and decision-making to wade through before taking action. For now I'm interpreting their inaction as caution rather than indifference. But that just means they need to be pressured more, because sooner or later, they need to act.

The key is getting the story out to more mainstream media and to get more authors outside the genre discussing it, especially those who publish at those companies...."

Agreed, I've emailed both Penguin and Berkley direct, also Random House, but atm I'm just one person and it's possible all our emails are going to different people who aren't seeing the others.

What we need is for Publisher's Weekly to pick it up, as they have featured Shamtino when "he" landed the contract with one of them (can't remember which).
Also USA Today's Book Reviewing section has featured him heavily in the past so it might be worth a few Tweets at them too.

Personally while Email's are great, banging it on all their social media channels like Twitter, Facebook pages, Instagram etc, is probably going to have a faster effect.

Unfortunately it's a good 10 years and more since I was an active journalist and most of my colleagues/friends from those days have left the business too.

Josy wrote: "~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "Wait, wait, wait, are you talking about me Dani??? ."

Yes, we are :)
Sloane Kennedy and her FB rant came up and I said she's off my tbr-list because..."

LOL, okay. She's actually back on my TBR list because I don't hold grudges and I can forgive what she did. She did apologize later, and I haven't seen her do this since.

SH on the other hand? Megan? Vile Vanessa? Sarah Lyons? Yeah, that's a FUCK NO, never, ever. There are certain lines you don't cross.

Nikki wrote: "Despite all her self-important, woke-white-lady posturing, LA Witt is the one who's no better than Santino Hassell. She used her platform to punch down and bully people and thinks issuing a generic "oops, my bad" should be enough."

I've always thought that. Incidentally, LAW is not very nice in person either.

I only started reading MM a few years ago and that is all I am: a reader. I don't blog, follow any person in particular or participate in threads or discussions, and I write few reviews. SH resonated with me and I eagerly pre ordered every book as soon as it was available and I own nearly everything they have written. Somehow I came across the information that SH was trying to be a full time author and learned about Patreon. I, too, am trying to leave my job to do something else full-time and I felt a kinship. I joined Patreon at a minimal level. I had a couple generic posts there and did not have any interaction with them or their rabid fans. I also did not check in often. It took me a while to discover what has been brought to light about SH. I finally discovered this thread and another. Prior to that I knew something was going on and could quite suss it out. At first I thought it was the revelation that SH was female. So, it took me a few days to quantify all the information. I admit, I was going to stay a minimal supporter on Patreon because I really wanted to read the remainder 5B and DBC books. The cognitive dissonance was too much. I believe the victims of SH and was appalled by the behaviors unveiled. How could I justify my continued support of SH, even at a minimal level and quiet? I was a bully in high school -- a part of my life I will always be ashamed of -- I have made amends where I could (high school was nearly 25 years ago!) and my teenaged daughter was bullied so terribly in middle school we changed school systems. In both cases, I blame not only the bully and her/my minions, but those who stood by silent and let it happen. I tried to read the first chapter of North Shore last night. I simply couldn't get through it. I felt terribly guilty for trying. I thought "I wonder whose story this is?" I just quit their Patreon page and took the money I was giving them and applied to another author who has been outspoken for the victims of SH. I am also beginning a Not For Me shelf to keep track of the bully participant authors (I only made point of reading one, but I don't want to forget anyone). I have also discovered new authors thanks to this thread; I am reading Lisa Henry right now and have downloaded about 5 other books from new to me authors. In conclusion, I respect everyone who has come forth with their tellings of abuse and wished to offer my quiet, but not silent, support.

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "Karen wrote: "Well I did say 'awesome' lol, yes. It was in regards to the Sloane Kennedy review that you did you know the 'guilty pleasure' comment that the author took offence over."

Ah okay. And..."

Yeah that's pretty much the discussion that we had.

Alexandra wrote: "Fistbump!.."

Yes!!! :)

Cadiva wrote: "Agreed, I've emailed both Penguin and Berkley direct, also Random House, but atm I'm just one person and it's possible all our emails are going to different people who aren't seeing the others...."

HELP!! I can't keep up with all the publishers!! Random House?
I know Susan posted all important twitter accounts and email addresses a few days ago but for the life of me, I can't find that post. So please be so kind and remind me again who I need to pester?!

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "LOL, okay. She's actually back on my TBR list because I don't hold grudges and I can forgive what she did. She did apologize later, and I haven't seen her do this since..."

I definitely need to work on this no holding grudges thing, lol!! But I certainly won't start that with SH and VN! They are going to be a not-ever-again forever!

Jess wrote: "I only started reading MM a few years ago and that is all I am: a reader. I don't blog, follow any person in particular or participate in threads or discussions, and I write few reviews. SH resonat..."

Thank you for not staying silent, Jess!!
And thank you for your honesty!!
I'm sorry your daughter was the victim of bullying and I hope she's okay now!

I'm not sure if the right place to post this, I know the convo here took many directions, and now it's not only about SH ...

But few minutes ago Christine d'Abo tweeted a statement saying that she's ending her relationship with Riptide Publishing.

--> https://twitter.com/Christine_dAbo/st...

Josy wrote: "Cadiva wrote: "Agreed, I've emailed both Penguin and Berkley direct, also Random House, but atm I'm just one person and it's possible all our emails are going to different people who aren't seeing ..."

InterMix - with who the Barons series is published, is a sub-inprint of Berkley which is, in turn, part of Penguin Group USA.

http://www.penguin.com/intermix/

That, in turn, is part of the Random House/Penguin conglomerate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkley...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin...

As aside, I used to work for Westminster Press, which was owned by the Penguin Group and we used to get loads of discounts on all their publishing stuff (as well as on tickets to the Madam Tussauds group, as they owned those too!)

Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?

Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"
I was curious about that too. I have 13 audiobook written or co written by sh. Every time I talked to someone at audible they had no idea what I was talking about 🤔

Apology from Megan Erickson:

https://twitter.com/MeganErickson_/st...

Kate wrote: "Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"
I was curious about that too. I have 13 audiobook written or co written by sh. Every time I talked to someone at audible they had n..."

I think Riptide made a post about this. I need to see if I can find it.

Alexandra wrote: "Apology from Megan Erickson:

https://twitter.com/MeganErickson_/st..."

Whoa! I'm sure this is going to be an interesting thread.

Josy wrote: "~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "LOL, okay. She's actually back on my TBR list because I don't hold grudges and I can forgive what she did. She did apologize later, and I haven't see..."

That sounds like a good plan I think they're on that list for a lot of people.

Cadiva wrote: "InterMix - with who the Barons series is published, is a sub-inprint of Berkley which is, in turn, part of Penguin Group USA.."

Thank you, Cadiva!!
Have you information about InterMix, too? Are they a part of another publishing house as well or are they on their own?
edit: Sorry, I meant St Marins Press

Alexandra wrote: "Apology from Megan Erickson:

https://twitter.com/MeganErickson_/st..."

She sure changed her tune!

A little too late if you ask me...

Amy Jo Cousins, out of all the authors I found your apology the most sincere and the fact that you put yourself out there and admitted to Nikki you were wrong spoke volumes.

Anna Zabo, you got off easily. I've seen be outright nasty on Twitter, and I was shocked when you weren't called out in this thread. But like Amy Jo Cousins you made yourself vulnerable and spoke directly to Nikki and admitted you were wrong. Thank YOU.

Vanessa North, I won't bother. I don't think you have it in you to look outside your tunnel vision.

L.A. Witt, you may not have been part of the squad, but you wanted to. I'd see kiss ass their ass in their group and SM and join in the bullying. Your "apology" was lackluster at best.

Piper Vaughn, Avon G, and Roan P: one question no one addressed and I know I won't get an answer- was Alicia there when you guys were on vacation? Who took the group pictures? I keep going back to that.

Piper Vaughn, I believe your apology was sincere and to be honest I never saw you outright bully. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope to sometime down the road be able to go back to your books. I think you'll learn from this, I do.

Roan and Avon, I never saw you guys engage in the same level of nastiness as KS and ME, but your statements were sorry as fuck. That's the best you guys could come up with?

Eddie, you always acted like a pompous, self-righteous ass, grow up. Just like the rest of us you put your pants on one leg at a time.

Karen Stivali, out of all the authors I find you and ME the hardest to believe.

Megan E, I just don't see how you didn't know, and in the case that you didn't, you hardly addressed what a bully you became. You were downright nasty. You SERIOUSLY sugarcoated your behavior in your statements. Be honest; maybe then I can believe your apology. Same for you Karen Stivali.

Karen and Megan, I think I would've taken your statements more to heart if you had put yourselves out there in the same way AJC and AZ did.

To all the Nikki, Sakura, and the Nasty Birds THANK YOU.

Readers, thank you for all your doing but be careful not to turn into one of the things your fighting against.

Peace ✌

Kate wrote: "Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"
I was curious about that too. I have 13 audiobook written or co written by sh. Every time I talked to someone at audible they had n..."

That's interesting considering that I e-mailed Audible.com a couple of days ago and received an e-mail telling me that they had gotten my e-mail and would forward the information to the appropriate persons...maybe, not so much. Sorry, I tried.

Karen wrote: "Kate wrote: "Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"
I was curious about that too. I have 13 audiobook written or co written by sh. Every time I talked to someone at audib..."
I called audible and the person I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about but said I have that because I’m a member I can return any book. He wasn’t understanding I wanted to return them all! I got the same response when I msged audible on twitter

Karen wrote: "Kate wrote: "Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"
I was curious about that too. I have 13 audiobook written or co written by sh. Every time I talked to someone at audib..."

For Audible -- try the live chat instead of email. That way you can escalate to a supervisor if you are initially turned down.

I got refunds on Stygian and all of my 5B and Barons audiobooks.

Berkley/InterMix will no longer be publishing the next two Barons books:

https://twitter.com/BerkleyRomance/st...

AnnMarie wrote: "Berkley/InterMix will no longer be publishing the next two Barons books:

https://twitter.com/BerkleyRomance/st..."

YAAAY!!! Go us :)

I contacted Amazon today and requested refunds on the CyberLove and Barons books. They refunded them without too much of a fight.

I forgot I had used Audible credits on two 5B audiobooks and it took about 2 minutes in chat and I got those credits back. No questions asked basically.

Quick and simple.

Annika wrote: "Has anyone spoken to Tantor about the audiobooks?"

Here is what Riptide said
https://twitter.com/DecentFellows/sta...

Oh my, you snooze, you lose! I have hours to catch up :(

*
I stumbled on HuffPost article named "Lone Queer" by one Santino Hassell, "author of queer romance". There is not much just a short self-promoting paragraph at the end, but I did send the necessary info so they can decide what to do with it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...

New statement from Riptide.

https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...

Darn it, Sloan! You had to go there :( Well, as much as I loved your books, they are not for me anymore :(

Thanks for the link!

Looks like Riptide is shutting down: https://www.riptidepublishing.com/reform