Sun > Status Update

Josy wrote: "Steven wrote: "My husband heard about the Santino Hassell incident on public radio yesterday, and all about what's going on. Which is amazing, it's making the news. He only stopped to listen becaus..."

I have heard at least one person is working with a big blog/online newspaper to get this out. Not sure if I can mention who, but they're closely involved.

Sharing that it's been on the radio would definitely get some attention. Also hitting up big name authors/bloggers, anyone who might share the story. I've contacted more YouTubers, a few authors with huge followings, but it will take a lot of tenacity to make sure this isn't forgotten in a week.

Some people are still calling it the 'author drama' going on now. *rme*

People need to be Tweeting at St Martin's Press regarding the MF Single Dads series (I believe that's the one they're supposed to be publishing)

and at

Berkley/Random House/Penguin as well over the InterMix books - which is the Barons series.

I sent this to Penguin earlier;

https://twitter.com/MirrigoldS/status...

Cadiva wrote: "People need to be Tweeting at St Martin's Press regarding the MF Single Dads series (I believe that's the one they're supposed to be publishing)

and at

Berkley/Random House/Penguin as well over t..."

Thank you!!! I was trying to remember the name St Martin's Press for days now.

Bianca wrote: "I have heard at least one person is working with a big blog/online newspaper to get this out. Not sure if I can mention who, but they're closely involved.

Sharing that it's been on the radio would definitely get some attention. Also hitting up big name authors/bloggers, anyone who might share the story. I've contacted more YouTubers, a few authors with huge followings, but it will take a lot of tenacity to make sure this isn't forgotten in a week. .."

That's great!! Yes, we need to share this as wide as possible.
I also possibly have an author with 15,000 FB followers who might want to help to spread the word outside the genre. I'm waiting for an answer before I can share whom I'm thinking about.

He couldn't remember what station he was listening to at the time, sadly. And he didn't catch the whole conversation.

I tried googling to see if I could figure out who mentioned it on what station and haven't been able to come up with anything. :(

Josy wrote: "Annika wrote: "I've been mulling on something...

I'm not an author and admit that I don't have the first clue how it works when 2 auhtors co write a book. In this case I'm thinking of ME's culpabi..."

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The conversations were between Noah and Shamtino, so if they(meaning SH) didn't tell ME there's no way that she would know but given how much she did know it still wouldn't absolve her of anything. But I'm going to ere on the side of caution and say that she very possibly didn't know about this.

People contacting publishers - I suggest making sure to mention you will not be purchasing these books and will be (are) informing other readers about this situation.

And IMO - take it for whatever it's worth - even if other authors were completely hookwinked by SH and innocent victims of her lies and manipulations - many are still authors who targeted, harassed, personally insulted, campaigned against certain people (aka readers, consumers, customers, former customers, potential customers) via social media.

Which, again my opinion, is unacceptable behavior from an author, period. And enough to get authors put on my Do Not Read list, most especially if an apology is not forthcoming specifically addressing their own unacceptable behavior toward readers.

But I'll also admit I don't read this particular genre, and in this case it's easy for me to do - I wouldn't/won't read them anyway. And I understand the very real upset and disappointment in putting books by authors you did enjoy reading on the Never Read pile. Wanting to not do that. I wouldn't give anyone a hard time for whatever they choose to do.

Just my 2 cents.

Alexandra wrote: "People contacting publishers - I suggest making sure to mention you will not be purchasing these books and will be (are) informing other readers about this situation.

And IMO - take it for whateve..."

Absolutely just because they didn't know that SH was using personal information given to them in confidence doesn't absolve them of anything else that they did do.

Karen wrote: "Absolutely just because they didn't know that SH was using personal information given to them in confidence doesn't absolve them of anything else that they did do. "

As long as they continue to sound as if they think their behavior was acceptable when/if they believed they were "defending a friend", that that excuse justified or reasonably explains their behavior, I personally would still have an issue with them.

Because it wasn't, and it isn't. And it seems like they think it was, and would do the same thing the next time they felt some "friend" fellow author needed "defending" from those pesky readers and customers.

IMO, even if SH had been exactly everything she claimed to be, the behavior of these authors toward readers and in the view of readers, in their author spaces and spaces where authors/readers interact. Places they set up to promote their books and interact with readers, etc., was unacceptable, unprofessional, not appropriate and something readers should never tolerate from authors.

Even if SH had been unfairly targeted, and was completely innocent of everything - there are reasonable and acceptable ways to deal with such things, and what some of these authors did was not it.

They way they behaved wasn't simply wrong because SH turned out to be a lying scumbag. The way they behaved was wrong, period. And if I were their reader, potential reader, that is what I'd want to see acknowledged before I'd consider reading their stuff again.

And I personally think doxing is really bad - in a hypothetical case of someone trying to dox an author's real identity when they used a pseudonym (we all know this case isn't that), I 100% understand wanting to support and stand by that person, and do what I could to help.

But campaigning against that person(s) publicly, all the crap spewed publicly about people by name, hostility about honest questions, etc., etc. That's all quite different, and not the way to handle such things in a professional and responsible manner.

Ok, I'll drag myself off my soapbox now :)

Josy wrote: "I want to un-read every book I ever read by them!

Sloane Kennedy is of my tbr-list since this FB rant. I missed her apology, though.

At this point when it comes to reading their books, it doesn't..."

Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven her and I'm not meaning to speak for Dani because that awesome lady is very capable of speaking for herself but I'm not sure she'd want anyone boycotting an author over an incident that she seems to be willing to put in the past, but again on Dani can answer that definitively.

Ok just 2 more things...

1. we all make mistakes and sometimes it's not the mistake but how we deal with acknowledging it and making amends. I say sometimes here because truthfully in my eyes I don't think there's anything that SH could do that would even begin to make amends and I think ME's pretty much in the same boat on that, but that's definitely just my thoughts on this.

2. You could be the best author in the world but when it comes to a sincere apology...sincerity is an emotion that comes from the heart and it's hard to express something that you're not feeling and while none of us wants to admit that we've screwed up and done wrong unless you truly understand and believe that you have it's really, really hard to say those words and ever sound like you mean it again just my thoughts on this.

Alexandra wrote: "And IMO - take it for whatever it's worth - even if other authors were completely hookwinked by SH and innocent victims of her lies and manipulations - many are still authors who targeted, harassed, personally insulted, campaigned against certain people (aka readers, consumers, customers, former customers, potential customers) via social media.

Which, again my opinion, is unacceptable behavior from an author, period. And enough to get authors put on my Do Not Read list, most especially if an apology is not forthcoming specifically addressing their own unacceptable behavior toward readers...."

^^So much this!!^^
And yes, it's a decision everyone must make on their own.

Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Absolutely just because they didn't know that SH was using personal information given to them in confidence doesn't absolve them of anything else that they did do. "

As long as they ..."

Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry but I'm going to go get myself a coffee and take a long hard look at the types of friends I have, the things they do and what my self respect is worth to me.

There's a reason the 'golden rule is called...The Golden Rule' and while it may come from the bible it's really just a piece of common sense to live by 'treat people the way you want be treated' or 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' that's just common sense and basic human decency.

Alexandra wrote: "even if other authors were completely hookwinked by SH and innocent victims of her lies and manipulations - many are still authors who targeted, harassed, personally insulted, campaigned against certain people (aka readers, consumers, customers, former customers, potential customers) via social media.."

^^^THIS

Wendy wrote:"I have seen several places in this thread where the ScamSham's agent has been identified as Courtney Milan, with a link to Courtney Milan's twitter thread where she made a statement about the SH situation. I don't think that Courtney Milan is anyone's agent (but I could totally be wrong). I think that the ScamSham's (now former) agent was Courtney Miller-Callihan at Handspun Literary Agency http://handspunlit.com/about/. She is agent for a whole bunch of familiar sounding names. Misinformation spreads, so I thought this was important to mention. ..."

Can someone please clarify this for me? If this https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta... isn't' the former agent, in what way is she connected to SH? The pics look different, don't they? http://handspunlit.com/about/
Or is "Milan" a combination of Miller-Callihan? Then she would be the former agent, right?

Steven wrote: "He couldn't remember what station he was listening to at the time, sadly. And he didn't catch the whole conversation.

I tried googling to see if I could figure out who mentioned it on what station..."

That's sad. Maybe someone else has picked up on it and we will hear about it soon.

Karen wrote: "Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry but I'm going to go get myself a coffee and take a long hard look at the types of friends I have, the things they do and what my self respect is worth to me. "

You're right, but it goes even further than that, because you and I are not business owners and product producers behaving this way posting under our BRAND name, in spaces where we are interacting with our customers and behaving this way toward customers and former customers and potential customers.

For you and I, maybe we'd just be acting badly and were being jerks. Sure. You and I get into an internet spat where we call each other nasty names and spew stuff about each other all over for our friends to see. Well, that's not nice. And we probably should grow up a bit. ;)

But these people are acting and speaking as the CEO of their business, about and around their customers. In the very spaces they have for interacting with their readers and potential readers.

It's the same thing as something like this:

On the official Ford Motor Company Facebook page Ford Motor Company posts: "Alexandra, you are a lying sack of shit. You are a cunt. Shut up."

From the official Universal Studios Twitter account Universal Studios tweets: "Everyone, block Alexandra. She is spreading lies and trying to hurt us. Go after her and flood her Twitter feed telling her she is scum. She needs to stop."

Um. yeah. Regardless of who has the right or wrong of it in a situation, is that ok? No.

It's not like they were simply having private conversations with their own personal friends - in private.

It's not an equal situation.

Josy wrote: "Wendy wrote:"I have seen several places in this thread where the ScamSham's agent has been identified as Courtney Milan, with a link to Courtney Milan's twitter thread where she made a statement ab..."

Courtney Milan is an author of historical romances :) She is NOT SH's agent.

https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta...

Leyna wrote: "Courtney Milan is an author of historical romances :) She is NOT SH's agent.

https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta...."

Courtney Milan also has a very strong history of being firmly pro-reader.

ETA Sorry, I'm always running late.

Courtney Milan IS NOT SH's agent!!

Sorry, just had to say that. Milan is a romance writer. She never had anything to do with SH. She is interested in the situation & wants to help authors hurt by it all. She has a wide readership and her readers outside m/m are finding out the situation from her.

Josy wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I am a total outsider here, but interested and intensely sympathetic. I just want to note something I think is really important since names are being named and messages sent to variou..."

Courtney Milan and Courtney Miller Callihan are two completely different people!!!

Courtney Miller Callihan (twitter: @millercallihan) is Santino Hassell's ex-agent from Handspun Literary Agency.
A few weeks ago she posted a rant/thread on Twitter that was massively condescending that she has since retracted on the subject of what authors do and don't owe readers. Even though she's now denying it pertained to the questions surfacing about Hassell, we all know that's what she was talking about.
She was incredibly patronising about it and she blocked people left and right that were coming to her with genuine questions about the issue *after* readers had been directed to her by Hassell. A lot (like, A LOT) of authors retweeted that thread.
After the SH exposure exploded she recanted it (I think she even deleted it) and basically said we all read wrong and misinterpreted her (a form of gaslighting on its own). And that she's sorry for everyone that's hurting and she's stepping away from social media and that she supports everyone and bye.
No further statement has come from her.

Courtney Milan on the other hand is a very well known and respected Romance author.
The way she came to be included in threads and convos regarding Santino Hassell is because she confirmed she knew of least one more story like Noah's, where a person confided in her that intimate details of a relationship of sorts had been put in one of the Cyberlove books.
Since then, she's weighed in openly and harshly on both the Hassell and the Lyons topic.

Edit to add Milan's thread: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta...

Josy wrote: "Can someone please clarify this for me? If this https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta... isn't' the former agent, in what way is she connected to SH? The pics look different, don't they? http://handspunlit.com/about/
Or is "Milan" a combination of Miller-Callihan? Then she would be the former agent, right?
"

Courtney Milan is a historical m/f romance author who often speaks out on issues both inside and outside the book world. She's a former lawyer (even a former law clerk to one of our Supreme Court justices), so she often lends her legal perspective. She's someone I always look to for a calm but impassioned read on any controversy.

Her only connection to the SH case, as far as I know, is to comment on it and to reach out to some of the victims. I think she didn't become aware of it until most people in the larger romance genre did, around the time Riptide made their statement on Friday about dropping SH's books.

I'm such a newbie: who's Eddie Witt? What's SM?

And CM provided background about RP's history of problematic behaviour around race. it was posted here somewhere.

Avery wrote: "Josy wrote: "Can someone please clarify this for me? If this https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta... isn't' the former agent, in what way is she connected to SH? The pics look different, don't the..."

Nope. Not just that.
She also has a small thread on which she confirms she knows another story very similar to Noah's, about having found personal details of actual real life happenings between her friend and Hassell that turned up on the Cyberlove books. That's how she became first linked to the Hassell situation.

Her comment came right after @sweetsakuradoll posted Noah's story in the #SHconfessions thread.

Edit to add Milan's thread: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta...

Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry but I'm going to go get myself a ..."

Everything Alexandra is saying x10000000000000!

Mónica wrote: "Everything Alexandra is saying x10000000000000! "

:D

The Cyberlove series, which I will admit I loved to the moon and back, is forever tainted. I will never reread. I will never recommend. I feel sick remembering how much I enjoyed the stories.

And this is neither here nor there, but my mother loves Courtney Milan's work, has bought every single book, so it's good to know Milan is pro-reader.

THANK YOU! You all have been very helpful!! I saw the rant by the agent and the post about personal information being used in one of the books by CM and I confused them because of the similar names. Thank you!

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "The Cyberlove series, which I will admit I loved to the moon and back, is forever tainted. I will never reread. I will never recommend. I feel sick remembering how much I enjoyed the stories."

Agree. I loved Strong Signal. Now all I can think about is Noah's story and it makes me angry.

Claudia wrote: "I'm such a newbie: who's Eddie Witt? What's SM?"

Eddie is L.A witt's husband (another M/M author close to SH), he posted a statement (or two ?) when he had no 'right' to add his voice. And let just say that his statement was beyond rude, inapropriate and stupid.

I don't know either what SM means, besides the nasty stuff ^^

Claudia wrote: "I'm such a newbie: who's Eddie Witt? What's SM?"

SM = social media

Zaza wrote: "Claudia wrote: "I'm such a newbie: who's Eddie Witt? What's SM?"

Eddie is L.A witt's husband (another M/M author close to SH), he posted a statement (or two ?) when he had no 'right' to add his vo..."

I believe SM is social media

Zuzu wrote: Eddie is L.A witt's husband (another M/M author close to SH), he posted a statement (or two ?) when he had no 'right' ..."

Laura wrote: SM = social media"

Thank you! I feel so stupid about the SM thing now. xDDD

But there's another Eddie, right? The one from @gayforbooks?

Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry but I'm going to go get myself a ..."

I definitely agree with you that this is not an 'equal' situation and I apologize if my statement gave you the impression that I meant that. What I was really speaking to was the fact that whether it's business or on a personal level we all have a moral and ethical code of conduct that we are guided by. But when it comes to the consequences of someone's actions on an individual basis being as damaging as those of a company whether it's a large corporation or a small one there's no comparison. Chances are if this had just been between two average individuals many of us would never know about it and that fact in and of itself speaks volumes about the imbalance of power that contributed to this.

Karen wrote: "Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven her and I'm not meaning to speak for Dani because that awesome lady is very capable of speaking for herself but I'm not sure she'd want anyone boycotting an author over an incident that she seems to be willing to put in the past, but again on Dani can answer that definitively...."

I was going to say something similar.

Josy wrote: "
Can someone please clarify this for me? If this https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/sta... isn't' the former agent, in what way is she connected to SH? The pics look different, don't they? http://handspunlit.com/about/
Or is "Milan" a combination of Miller-Callihan? Then she would be the former agent, right? .."

There are two completely different people.

Courtney Milan is an author NOT Scamtino's former agent she's just an author who weighed in with her opinion as she had recommended Shamtino's books to her readers.

Karen wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Karen wrote: "Absolutely I don't even get this because if I have to verbally attack someone and do the things that they've done 'in defense of my friend' I'm sorry but I'm going t..."

No apology needed at all :D I understood what you meant (I think). It's just a particular issue I feel strongly about (clearly LOL), so I wanted to clarify my own thoughts, because I truly think even though certain behavior aren't good regardless, it's an apples and oranges thing when it comes to individuals just acting as private individuals, and authors when functioning under their brand name in spaces where they function and operate as their business interacting with the public.

I sometimes see people equating the two things as if it is equal, that it is understandable if an individual goes on an internet tirade when upset on a friend's behalf, and while that might be true when speaking of people functioning as individuals, it's quite a different matter when speaking of people who are operating as businesses and doing so under the name they use for that business, most especially when they do so under the public eye and in spaces where they are engaging with the public as authors.

IMO it also goes beyond potential consequences. It's a matter of what is reasonable to expect from business owners when engaging in public spaces under their brand name, in spaces where they do business and interact with the public as their business, and most especially where they interact with customers and potential customers, and how they behave toward customers, potential customers and even former customers.

What readers, consumers, should expect when being talked to and about with/by authors. How customers deserve to be treated, and the attitude authors should have toward those customers.

It's about what readers should demand as customers - respectful and professional treatment. We readers should not tolerate being treated this way by authors, nor turn a blind eye when we see them doing it to others. Even when/if we think those authors have good reason to be upset.

What I expect from authors is that they appreciate readers and treat them with respect. That they behave professionally and responsibly. When engaging in the public eye using their brand name. Most especially when it comes to anything to do with their business.

If they choose to publish under their real name, well, that can make it more difficult to speak freely using that name publicly on the internet without it potentially harming their business. It definitely means they should not do so when it comes to negative talk to or about readers, negative reviews, attacking people, etc. If they choose to publish under their real name, that's a choice they make. That name becomes their brand, and anytime they speak using that name they are speaking as the CEO of their business. In public the two are never separate.

It means if they want to spew about some reader that has ticked them off, or whine about a meany review, they'd better do it in private.

Again - my opinion :D

Zaza wrote: "Claudia wrote: "I'm such a newbie: who's Eddie Witt? What's SM?"

Eddie is L.A witt's husband (another M/M author close to SH), he posted a statement (or two ?) when he had no 'right' to add his vo..."

I don't think Lori's ever been "close" to Scamtino but she did post a comment on her FB a couple of months ago when the attack squad started their campaign against Nikki etc about how authors had a right to privacy.

I've been a "friend" on FB of hers for a fairly long time and she's never been part of the Scamtino squad but she has - as have other authors - recommended and commented on "his" books.

After the Riptide statement she again posted and said she apologised and held her hand up to her mistakes.

No idea why Eddie felt the need to wade in those and I suspect she'll have slapped him down pretty quickly.

The other Eddie is the antipodean who was some Egyptian sounding handle on Twitter (and gayforbooks) or similar who was a vicious little shit who had bad mouthed and had run ins with lots of people and was a definite #ChurchofScamtino devotee.

Wow, just.......wow. I've been offline since December--my mom was rushed to the hospital and died of invasive, inoperable cancer on December 29th, so I unplugged. Just decided to get back online and begin group participation again (I miss you all so much), and this is the first thing I read, thanks to links sent by one of my BFFs.

So disappointing--I love everything I have ever read by SH, have no trouble with pen names, or even a bit of "added drama" to increase sales (sounds shitty, but a great marketing ploy to up sales), but this is NOT a "bit of drama". This simply broke my brain--the hurt and confusion that is a result of this most recent uproar, the questions it brings to mind, not to mention trust issues.

I believe authors create magic--they have the power to help us transcend our daily grind and tell us stories that captivate us and leave us begging for more, or turn us into one-click addicts.....). Taking advantage of avid readers is just so wrong--and that's how I view this mess.

I was a person that participated in SH's Patreon page for a short time ($5.00 a month), but had to stop due to financial issues--yes, in this household, $5.00 can be a big deal. I am a person who, if you ask me for something to wear, and I only have one t-shirt to my name, I'll tear it in half so we can both have tacky tube-tops to wear. So I feel hurt, and a bit stupid--I have been taken advantage of so many times because I try to see the best in everyone--is it silly that I'm quite upset and disappointed over this entire sitch? Not just for myself, but for everyone in the path of this crap-gathering tumbleweed. And yet I still find myself thinking "I hope that the folks on the "other" side of this issue are okay, and finding their way through the pile of sh*t they created.

My heart goes out to anyone and everyone who was misled, taken advantage of, or who is truly hurt by this troubling turn of events. I am working my way through back-logged emails, and will continue to follow and investigate how this plays out........or not......... In the meantime, I've decided not purchase anymore books by SH (or whoever the hell is doing the writing). Since I'm so far out of the loop, and don't participate in social media) have there been any apologies issued by anyone involved?

Claudia wrote: "Zuzu wrote: Eddie is L.A witt's husband (another M/M author close to SH), he posted a statement (or two ?) when he had no 'right' ..."

Laura wrote: SM = social media"

Thank you! I feel so stupid ..."

I'm not at all a neutral party answering here. So beware of that.
Ed, from the account @gaybookgeek is someone that for several reasons is being called out as well as others in the Santino Hassell exposure. I suggest heading over to twitter and searching for his handle (he has erased his account, but the info is still there). You can specifically search the @sweetsakuradoll and @thisblackmagic timelines for threads on him. He also reviews for http://bingeonbooks.com/

I have absolutely nothing nice to say about him, and as I've stated before I am not at all neutral here, so I encourage everyone to go take a look in Twitter about him.

He's not the same Ed as L.A. Witt's husband. That's two different Ed's xD

Let me clear up confusion on LA Witt & her husband. Long version:

In Jan 2017 & Jan 2018, LA Witt made posts on facebook about author privacy as a result of SH lying about being doxxed & stalked. LA NEVER tried to verify his claims or asked any questions. She made her posts and allowed the comments section to become a dragging free-for-all, in which she participated.

Then when her "apology" wasn't immediately accepted last week, her husband Eddie Witt jumped in and insulted several SH victims, calling them troublemakers & no better than SH. He also lied and said screenshots were edited. After this was called out on Twitter several times, he made a lamer apology than she did, calling his attack on victims an "academic piece." And LAW expecting people to believe that her husband just decided to get involved without her knowledge & consent is frankly insulting.

Despite all her self-important, woke-white-lady posturing, LA Witt is the one who's no better than Santino Hassell. She used her platform to punch down and bully people and thinks issuing a generic "oops, my bad" should be enough. It's not. Her behavior showed SH's silent victims exactly what would happen if they ever spoke out against him. Witt & the other SH attack dogs allowed him to poison the community for over a year after the truth was told about him. bc was their friend, wah wah. Whatever. They all need to accept full responsibility and apologize for real.

Cindra wrote: "Wow, just.......wow. I've been offline since December--my mom was rushed to the hospital and died of invasive, inoperable cancer on December 29th, so I unplugged. Just decided to get back online an..."

Hi Cindra, so sorry to hear about your mom. <3

For a good recap about how the whole SH mess unraveled, with links to the important evidence, screengrabs etc, go to the Saltminers Tumblr page. They now have 3 updates, with all the recent developments. https://thesaltminers.tumblr.com/
This includes links to a fair share of apologies and non-apologies.

Karen wrote: "Hi Josy, in regards to the incident with SK and Dani. She did apologize and I know that Dani's read at least one of her books since then so I'd say that Dani's forgiven her and I'm not meaning to speak for Dani because that awesome lady is very capable of speaking for herself but I'm not sure she'd want anyone boycotting an author over an incident that she seems to be willing to put in the past, but again on Dani can answer that definitively.

Ok just 2 more things....."

Hi, Karen :)
Sorry, I totally missed your comment or I would have answered sooner.
I'm putting the first part in spoiler because it isn't connected to SH.
(view spoiler)[I know Dani has read a book by her after this happened and I think I commented on her review that I was stilled pissed off on her behalf or something like that. I just really didn't like and understand how the author rallied against and encouraged her readers to be hurtful towards another reader. And all of that because of a wonderful review, a good rating, and an expression that is widely used. And I thought to myself what would she do if she gets a bad review? I think it was just to make herself feel more important and better because she was upset about something that really shouldn't have been a problem. (hide spoiler)]Dani totally isn't at fault here! It was my decision not based on Dani and/or what she wrote but based on the author's behavior towards a reader - and a reader who loved all her previous books at that.

To your other two points: that's why I said I will reconsider my decision when they own their mistakes and show that they have changed their behavior towards readers. Not just in words but in actions. I get that they are upset, too, right now. I have spoken to a couple people who have been catfished a few years ago and they are still feeling the hurt of a lost friendship and emotional connection. Provided they truly didn't know about the false persona and were deceived as well, I'm willing to give them time to come to terms with what happened. But that doesn't excuse their cruel, hurtful behavior for such a long time. It wasn't just once that they slipped up and posted something in the heat of the moment but numerous times. And nobody forced them to become bullies. Maybe SH was toxic and they were swept up in his spite but even then they had a choice and they chose to be vicious.

I'm not perfect. Far from it actually and yes, we all make mistakes. I, too, would want to be given a second chance to make amends and show that I've learned to be better. So that's why I will use the next few months to observe. If I have the feeling they have changed their ways, I will read their books again (that doesn't include SH of course, VN, and probably ME)

Nikki wrote: "Let me clear up confusion on LA Witt & her husband. Long version:

In Jan 2017 & Jan 2018, LA Witt made posts on facebook about author privacy as a result of SH lying about being doxxed & stalked...."

Thanks for that Nikki, my comments regarding Lori were based on my interactions but you've quite clearly had very different ones and I appreciate the clarification.

@Cindra - sorry to hear about your mum's passing.

Alexandra wrote: "What readers, consumers, should expect when being talked to and about with/by authors. How customers deserve to be treated, and the attitude authors should have toward those customers.

It's about what readers should demand as customers - respectful and professional treatment. We readers should not tolerate being treated this way by authors, nor turn a blind eye when we see them doing it to others. Even when/if we think those authors have good reason to be upset.

What I expect from authors is that they appreciate readers and treat them with respect. That they behave professionally and responsibly. When engaging in the public eye using their brand name. Most especially when it comes to anything to do with their business. .."

I agree with you! BUT ...
I don't want this to lead into another long discussion that isn't relevant to SH and this thread so I will put it into spoilers. Susan, if you want me to delete my comment, just say the word :)
(view spoiler)[Some readers should also learn to not be a**holes. I've read some comments from readers towards authors over the years, that were just uncalled for. A reader doesn't need to make a nasty comment on an author's appearance for example. Or about how much they hate all the books they've read by them. You don't like a book? Look for another one or another author. As I've said before, I'm not active on SM so I'm sure I've seen only a very small portion about nasty exchanges between readers and authors but I have seen readers starting trouble by being unnecessarily cruel. There is no need for that and I can kinda understand why an author would blow off when faced with something like this. Is it unprofessional? Maybe. But we are all humans with emotions.
IMO a big part of this is SM in itself and the anonymity of the internet. Sometimes people forget that on the other side of the screen is a human being who can hurt and be angry just like we can. (hide spoiler)]

This thread seems to have squirreled a bit but I just wanted to give a quick update. I've been emailing back & forth with Amazon & they are investigating the Santino Hassell sitch. They've assured me that my "evidence" has been forwarded to the appropriate parties. I'm asking for them to remove all of the books based on fraud, etc. I've also contacted DSP who have advised me that they too have contacted Amazon & the other 3rd party sellers to have SH books removed. However, they really can only do something about the books that they published, so I would encourage everyone to keep after Berkley. I don't have any better ways to get into contact w/them but if anyone does, I ask that you do so.

Optimist ♰King's Wench♰ & MANTIES Champion wrote: "I've been emailing back & forth with Amazon & they are investigating the Santino Hassell sitch. They've assured me that my "evidence" has been forwarded to the appropriate parties. I'm asking for them to remove all of the books based on fraud, etc. ..."

I tried to do that, too, with amazon.de when they refunded my books today. They were really nice about the refunds and said that they understand why I wouldn't want the books anymore and said they were sorry but they shut me up when I asked about removing the self-published books from their site. I will try again tomorrow.

What are your thoughts on Berkley's and St Martin's silence? Are they even looking at this or are they simply ignoring everything in the hopes it all will die down?

Zuzu wrote: "~Now all I can think about is Noah's story and it makes me angry. "

Yes, so much this! I'm just sick about it.

Cindra wrote: "Wow, just.......wow. I've been offline since December--my mom was rushed to the hospital and died of invasive, inoperable cancer on December 29th, so I unplugged. Just decided to get back online an..."

I'm so sorry for your loss, Cindra!!
And I'm sorry that your first days back online is such a huge mess! I think most of us were totally shocked when all this came to light. I know I was. And no! It's definitely not silly to be upset and disappointed!!
The link Anne-Marie posted in #1870 is a good one to get an overview of what has happened.