Sun > Status Update

A.B. wrote: "I think it was Anne Barwell who said that. She definitely said something similar in her very thoughtful post. ..."

Maybe they just think a lot alike or she was inspired by her...

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

Message 1528 also

Thebomb wrote: "Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 pages of a manuscript to get ..."

And now I have yet another thought (I'm really on a roll today;-) maybe it's that Lyons-lady now helping SH, since she's out of a job... Isn't this what an editor does:
-Send me the first 100 pages of a manuscript to get one round of feedback on pacing, character development, plot structure, and any other specific questions you have
-Will also give one round of feedback on your synopsis and query letter

Line wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 pages of a ma..."
I don't put it past them to do something new and despicable, they need to be prosecuted, what they did was too much. [just my 2 cents ]


*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "I do believe Christopher Rice himself starred an SH book at some point and I think they were "friends" on GR! So he might just have a vested interest in fig..."


and can anyone tell me which page is the Anne Rice thing?
I don't know if I can handle knowing another author I know and read for is also involved in this.

A quick update regarding Smart Bitches, Trashy Books [The short version: I posted a comment (#1375) over here where I listed the romance blogs pulling their SH content. Last Friday night, I emailed SBTB abt the SH catfishing, asking them what they were going to do because they're one of the biggest romance blogs around.]

I received an email from Sarah Wendell (the main person behind the blog) today. This was the entirety of her response:

"Thank you for emailing me, and for the links. I am looking into this entire situation now that I'm back from vacation, and am working with the publicist who set up my interview originally. So the short answer is, I'm working on it, and it's slow going, but I really appreciate your emailing me. Thank you!"

FTR, the interview she's referring to in her reply is an SH podcast from August 2017.

I'll keep checking and will update as soon as I can.

Francesca wrote: "On a spectacularly good note: Courtney Milan has just dragged good old Eddie C the big bully all over twitter. "

Could you please share the links? Can't find the tweets you're referring to. Thank you.

Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 pages of a manuscript to get one round of ..."

Pretty sure that was on SH’s patreon tiers since I pledged. I think SH figures bc they are/were such a prolific author they have the chops to be mentoring others?

Though does suddenly make me wonder how many maybe done that and the stories were stopen by SH...

Marlobo wrote: "Nicki wrote: "...You could just delete the books instead, as I did with my kindle book but Audible offered a refund and as I've said before, I just used this to buy books from other authors from Ri..."

Love those authors, hope you enjoy :)
Edited sorry Susan, I don't know how I missed your post about keeping this conversation about SH so people can find information easily, will do from now on.

Laura wrote: "Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 pages of a manuscript to get ..."

Dang, sorry:-) I only checked the pledge numbers previously, and I only just saw this now.
Just made me laugh in that really uncomfortable way:-/

Line wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 pages of a ma..."

I saw those $100 tier descriptions a few days ago, Line, and they were already set that way, so I don't think it's a new thing.
I thought the same, though, that it would be very convenient for SH to have all that new original material available AND have the chance to cultivate close relationships with new, vulnerable authors ready to trust them with their work.
I hope everyone still in those tiers will go running the other way as soon as possible.

Wendy wrote: "I am a total outsider here, but interested and intensely sympathetic. I just want to note something I think is really important since names are being named and messages sent to various publishing e..."

Thanks Wendy, I've updated my blog to fix it.

Thebomb wrote: "and can anyone tell me which page is the Anne Rice thing?
I don't know if I can handle knowing another author I know and read for is also involved in this. .."


Anne Rice is not involved in the SH situation at all.

She’s just kind of notorious for going after readers/reviewers in pretty awful ways. And that’s been going on for, like, well over a decade. At least.

If you’re interested in that a simple google search will net you reading material for a year. ;)

She was only brought up b/c somebody mentioned talking to Christoper Rice (her son) about the SH situation.

TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "She’s just kind of notorious for going after readers/reviewers in pretty awful ways. And that’s been going on for, like, well over a decade. At least.
"

right, that alone should be enough info. to edit my reviews.
shame.

thanks for replying :)
I never read for Christipher Rice.

*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Jordan wrote: "https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...

Sarah just resigned from Riptide, effective immediately."

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth [in that she got the boot..."

I'm as far from a business lawyer as you can get, but I suspect there was a discussion and resignation prevents the possibility of a messy lawsuit. Plus I *think* -- and again, I could be wrong -- resignation means she's not qualified for unemployment, where termination might mean she is?

Holy shitballs. This just cropped up in my feed and I've gone down the rabbit hole of drama.

I'm worried SH will write under new names, that happened with Thorny and others. no repentance.

Susan wrote: "gonna put this in bold so it'll stand out...sorry!

Hey everyone,

Though I know the Riptide/Sarah Lyons news is crazy, and I've been watching like a hawk (don't get me wrong!), I kept this thread ..."

Susan, I've emailed ConsumerServices@PenguinRandomHouse.com today but I can't find the second email address. I know you posted them but it's such a long thread and I can't find it. Sorry!

MzBond wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "I'm old, so I hope I'll be forgiven if this sounds rude or anything else negative... "

This was neither rude, nor negative. It was on point in my estimation."

thanks :D

Thebomb wrote: "Line wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "Line wrote: "I know this is no laughing matter, but have you seen SH's $100 tier notes? Those made me laugh...

"Critique
$100 or more per month
-Send me the first 100 ..."

Anne Rice is not involved in this.

DarienMoya wrote: "As a WOC what Xen shared really broke my heart. I was with Riptide through its inception and I am just broken hearted that this is what they’ve become. They need to do something about their editor,..."

Amen, Darien. I am so with you on this. More characters who are POC, and more book covers featuring and representing non-white men, please. I love books with diverse characters and writers who can use their Own Voices. Yes, please!

MzBond wrote: "20 mins ago...

https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...


We have accepted the resignation of Sarah Lyons, effectively immediately. A statement is forthcoming.

"

Thank fuck!

Annika wrote: "Does anyone know what the repercussions for SH could be for all of this?
Is there any way that he could be held responisble or liable in any way, or are the pulled contracts the only thing that mig..."

Riptide answered this here:
https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...

Thebomb wrote: "I questioned about this on twitter yesterday,i'm @EscapeTBomb
https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat... .."

Holly shit! I totally missed that! But the likelihood is small, isn't it?

Thebomb wrote: "and can anyone tell me which page is the Anne Rice thing?
I don't know if I can handle knowing another author I know and read for is also involved in this. "

Yes, what TinaNicole said ;)

Josy wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "I questioned about this on twitter yesterday,i'm @EscapeTBomb
https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat... .."

Holly shit! I totally missed that! But the likelihood i..."

yeah *kicks foot in sand* :P

Alexandra wrote: "

Yes, what TinaNicole s..."

thanks :)

I'm blocked by Riptide, for some odd reason. I never post, like, retweet, or anything but read posts but what can you do?

Anyway, would someone mind sharing what they said? Thanks!

Josy wrote: "Annika wrote: "Does anyone know what the repercussions for SH could be for all of this?
Is there any way that he could be held responisble or liable in any way, or are the pulled contracts the only..."

I didn't mean a lawsuit from Riptide, I meant a lawsuit from the people SH harmed. like a collective suit or something, idk maybe it's overreaching, they ARE expensive anyway.
it's just the whole fraud/harassment things, irk me, what are the consequences? how do we warn other ppl? ..

Bitchie wrote: "I'm blocked by Riptide, for some odd reason. I never post, like, retweet, or anything but read posts but what can you do?

Anyway, would someone mind sharing what they said? Thanks!"

"The sad truth is that most authors in breach of contract get away with it. Lawsuits are EXTREMELY expensive & time-consuming, & typically not worth the small amount a publisher might recover, assuming the author hasn't already spent that money (which alas they usually have)."

(just linking to show source: https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...)

Bitchie wrote: "I'm blocked by Riptide, for some odd reason. I never post, like, retweet, or anything but read posts but what can you do?

Anyway, would someone mind sharing what they said? Thanks!"

About the possibility of holding SH accountable?
? Isn’t he in breach of contract or hasn’t he misrepresented himself?

The sad truth is that most authors in breach of contract get away with it. Lawsuits are EXTREMELY expensive & time-consuming, & typically not worth the small amount a publisher might recover, assuming the author hasn't already spent that money (which alas they usually have).

isn't this ground for a lawsuit, fraud? (them saying they needed the extra income because they are a single dad+paying off cancer treatment+other health stuff)

Yes. If a group of people who paid into his #Patreon wanted to report this to the FBI in person or through #FBIAnon we have plenty of evidence now between us that this is a criminal fraud case.

Thebomb wrote: "I didn't mean a lawsuit from Riptide, I meant a lawsuit from the people SH harmed. like a collective suit or something, idk maybe it's overreaching, they ARE expensive anyway.
it's just the whole fraud/harassment things, irk me, what are the consequences? how do we warn other ppl? .. ."

This was answered here
https://twitter.com/DecentFellows/sta...
or see the second answer in my post above

Alexandra wrote: "Bitchie wrote: "I'm blocked by Riptide, for some odd reason. I never post, like, retweet, or anything but read posts but what can you do?

Anyway, would someone mind sharing what they said? Thanks!..."

Thanks!

Josy wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "I didn't mean a lawsuit from Riptide, I meant a lawsuit from the people SH harmed. like a collective suit or something, idk maybe it's overreaching, they ARE expensive anyway.
it's ..."

I know, I'm @EscapeTBomb I asked about it, and read that. I can't get over it still. but I'll shut up about it :P

I had another idea how to reach more people though I don't know if it's really a good idea. If anyone of you can write a good article, wouldn't it be good trying to get it posted on different websites?
I'm from Germany so I have no clue what websites are good and if people really look at them.
I found these for example, but like I said, I have no clue about them:
https://www.advocate.com/
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/

Thebomb wrote: "I know, I'm @EscapeTBomb I asked about it, and read that. I can't get over it still. but I'll shut up about it :P.."

Uuuppsss!!! I'm so sorry!! I totally didn't know O_O
Sorry, I haven't seen anything else and since I'm from Germany with completely different laws and not a lawyer, I can't answer beyond what I see posted online.

Josy wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "I know, I'm @EscapeTBomb I asked about it, and read that. I can't get over it still. but I'll shut up about it :P.."

Uuuppsss!!! I'm so sorry!! I totally didn't know O_O
Sorry, I h..."

lol don't worry about it. it's a big thread, hardly anybody can keep up.

May I respectfully suggest you add RP/Lyons comments here:
https://twitter.com/AlishaRai/status/...

Or, can someone start a new thread to discuss topics other than ending Santino Hassell prosperity, as Susan has requested.

I'm sure Susan won't mind a link added here to a new discussion.

*Susan, happy to remove this if necessary.

:)

I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Marvin = Santino, apparently), and Alicia (who is the "brains" and the words behind most of this) will likely resurrect as another author.

Not one peep...and she used to vent on her @miz_alisha twitter account (her other pen name was Alisha Monroe).

Susan wrote: "I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Marvin = Santino..."

this is what I was thinking about.
I could see them trying this again in a year or so, maybe even less.
Patreon alone is outrageous.

Thebomb wrote: "Susan wrote: "I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Ma..."

I definitely think it's highly likely she will write/publish later under a new pen name. Even if self-publish.

https://twitter.com/GallagherWitt/sta...

l.a.witt says, to cole/xen

" I am so sorry to hear about this. Wow."

hmm, I'm so tempted to say something but I can't think of any

Susan wrote: "I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Marvin = Santino..."

They have to keep low profile yeah. And if she speaks, then it'll be a proof that she was involved.
But as someone said in the thread, things at the Hassell's home must be awesome since the past few days. Just imagining them bickering and blaming the other for this mess fills me with some kind of glee. ^^

Everything Riptide does is reactionary. Always has been.

I do agree Alicia's probably mastermind. she could remember it all, organize everything. all I think Mike or Marven ,husband or WHOMEVER is drinking and all that, not the behavior of an author who needs to keep up

Susan wrote: "I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Marvin = Santino..."

On the topic of Alisha/Alicia Monroe this is also her/them:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

Alisha Monroe

I would suggest keeping an eye on that penname as well as Santino Hassell's.

they won't rewrite with those names, I don't think, but maybe just keep a close eye. in any case?

JenMcJ wrote: "Maybe they just think a lot alike or she was inspired by her."

It's a case of "Great minds think alike". I hadn't seen Anne's post or anything similar when I wrote mine. Like I said, it's not the first or even the tenth time I've seen this kind of thing, and I'm sure Ms Barwell is as well acquainted with the unfortunate results of the cults of personality which flourish around authors, and the obsession with 'real gay men' in m/m.

Regarding Sarah Lyons, I'm shocked but also not surprised. I was a sort of friend of hers while she was still blogging at Dear Author. My husband and I took her out for a hectic but extremely enjoyable day's birding when she was in Brisbane for a conference. Both of us found her great company, though with a unfortunate tendency to overshare on just about everything.

Having witnessed her behaviour online spiralling downwards since then, her joining Riptide was one of the many reasons I side eye that company like crazy. It's so not a case of just one bad apple.

I'm shocked to my core that Sarah and Rachel Haimowitz would consider a black cover model a disincentive to readers. I'm very proud of (now sadly defunct) Samhain for having no hesitation at all over putting a very lovely black man on my cover of Somatesthesia. There was never even the briefest suggestion of 'Should we?' in discussing it, which is as it should always be. If Riptide have this attitude, it's definitely the company, not a publishing rule. Not in this genre.

As an aside, I've seen people on Twitter, or quoted on Twitter, sneering at 'Santino Hassell' for being a cis white man stealing the voice and publishing opportunities that should go to an author of colour. Of course, the irony is that Alicia Torres is of colour, just not a gay man. The intersectionality issue has always been complicated in this genre, and is no less so in this mess.

Can I just say to those of you who are worried that refunds and so on will hit the publishers, and are thus reluctant to seek them, that this is the kind of emotional thinking that lets scammers like Santino Hassell thrive. Riptide and other publishers aren't your buddies - they're selling a product. They're businesses. If they are well run, they will have insurance policies or funds in the bank to cover contingencies such as this (and if they don't, they're either too incompetent to be in business or someone's ripping the company off).

You, the customer, have exactly one duty towards a business - pay for the product. You don't own them loyalty, you don't owe them fuzzy feelings, reviews, or slack. If you bought a fake handbag from Target, you would have no compunction in returning it, and nor should you. You are entitled to the goods you thought you were buying, and if a company is selling books by a bisexual man of colour who turns out to be a married couple with the morals of hyenas, then you should demand compensation, end of.

Riptide and Dreamspinner and other publishers take a big cut of every sale (60% or so). Yes, they will lose a little money on refunds for these books, but many of you are using that money to buy other books, and spread the word that Riptide did the right thing. That's marketing. They're not doing this because they're your friend. They're doing it because it's good for their reputation.

Publishing is a business. Just because a company sells you experiences and dreams and stories, doesn't make it less so. Please, please, resist the temptation to wrap any company in fluffy blankets and think they're different from your grocery store or your hardware store when it comes to buying from them.

My hugs and support and gratitude to all of you working so hard to try and make this genre a safer place for authors and readers. So many heroes coming forth now. It's humbling.

Mónica wrote: "Susan wrote: "I think it's really odd that we haven't seen or heard anything from Alicia in all of this. I'm guessing the plan is to let Marvin take the fall (they're gonna die on the sword that Ma..."

Adding to my own comment:
@miz_monroe and @miz_alisha are the same Twitter, it only takes one search under one or the other and you get the responses for both of those going back all the way to 2013 as far as I can find.

I suggest keeping screenshots as well, in case any of the info gets edited.

Thebomb wrote: "they won't rewrite with those names, I don't think, but maybe just keep a close eye. in any case?"

Yeah, I would expect, if she does this, it'll be an entirely new pen name. And it may be in another genre or sub-genre.

Alexandra wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "they won't rewrite with those names, I don't think, but maybe just keep a close eye. in any case?"

Yeah, I would expect, if she does this, it'll be an entirely new pen name. And it..."

I’m not so sure about that. I think they might have a dangerous mentality, that they have been wronged and might want to get involved again with the same genre under a different pen name and different tactics. They might just believe they can pull it off again. They might even reappair as someone who was hurt by SH to gain sympathy. I know I’m paranoid...

Ann wrote: "Publishing is a business. Just because a company sells you experiences and dreams and stories, doesn't make it less so. Please, please, resist the temptation to wrap any company in fluffy blankets and think they're different from your grocery store or your hardware store when it comes to buying from them."

+ 1

Ann wrote: "JenMcJ wrote: "Maybe they just think a lot alike or she was inspired by her."


It's a case of "Great minds think alike". I hadn't seen Anne's post or anything similar when I wrote mine. Like I said..."

well said.

Alexandra wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "they won't rewrite with those names, I don't think, but maybe just keep a close eye. in any case?"

Yeah, I would expect, if she does this, it'll be an entirely new pen name. And it..."

hmm I remember someone mentioning, yesterday, that in Patreon or somewhere,SH said they might be moving to a new genre, so who knows it's possibly gonna happen sooner than we know. ugh. they should be BANNED from the industry. of course they won't let go of the money purse so soon.