Sun > Status Update

Okay, I have been under a rock for a month because I’ve decided to take a break from Twitter, I’ve only read SH’s DBC series so far and only follow SH on twitter so I can get updates when new books in the series come out, can anyone take the time and explain what in the heck happened?
Thank you

Riptide responded to my email to, for those interested:

Hello Shelby,

It's very sweet of you to ask. Amazon will take the money from us. We can recover some funds from Santino via his final few royalty checks (most vendors pay net 60 or net 90, so he hasn't yet been paid for sales made in January or February on many retailer sites), but that money will likely only cover the pre-order returns of North Shore and Cross Island. That being said, we feel very firmly that if a reader has been harmed by him and returning his books would help redress that harm, they should absolutely return the books.

Best,

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM, Shelby wrote:

Hello,

I have seen readers confirming that Amazon is refunding Santino
Hassell purchases. My question is, if Amazon issues a refund, do
they then in turn that that money from you, the publisher? I
obviously don't want to ask for a refund if that is the case, so any
clarification would be welcome!

Thanks,
Shelby

Rebekah wrote: "Okay, I have been under a rock for a month because I’ve decided to take a break from Twitter, I’ve only read SH’s DBC series so far and only follow SH on twitter so I can get updates when new books..."

Go there, it's a pretty good recap.
Edit to add the link..
https://thesaltminers.tumblr.com/post...

Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

What about audible? I bought everyone of his books and books he co wrote. Just curious, but at 13. That adds up!

@Kate.....yes, you can return the Audible ones too.

Sali Mes wrote: "I copy/past because I don't know how to post picture

To say that everything they've shared is genuine, when they already said on their "apology" post that they are married, is a contradiction to the constant claims of being single. Then again, self-contradiction seems to be their thing. You know what they say, a liar should have a good memory.

Shelby wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "are K.j.Charles and L.A.witt good authors or not?"

LA Witt is on the bad list I believe. She defended Santino (there is a link with a screenshot floating around somewhere here), de..."

oops,deleted my comment by accident, so I delete L.a.Witt books? but not k.j.Charles.

thanks.

Marbles wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Sali Mes wrote: "I copy/past because I don't know how to post picture

To say that everything they've shared is genuine, when they already said on their "apology" post that they are..."

It is Garrett's post and she shared that she got married last christmas.

Alisa wrote: "@Kate.....yes, you can return the Audible ones too."

Thanks so much for getting back to me. I have a lot of titles, I don’t want to screw the narrators. Does anyone know if are affected? I called audible and they had no idea what I was taking about. I really don’t like returning audiobooks because I know it screws the author. This is such a shitty thing

While I was told by a friend and asked Jenn about SH's identity through private DM on Twitter, it wasn't until reading Susan's status as well as various victims confession that I knew how far this abuse has gone. I have followed this thread since the very beginning and I think I need to say things again.

I am sorry for all of what the victims have been through. I hope you are now in better place though, and find that you are stronger together. Especially since I see some of the names I used to know in the good ole' days of Goodreads are returning -- and they used to be SH fans, I know because I was a witness to it then -- and maybe that means friendship found and mended.

Noah, Jenn, Susan, and EVERYONE who have shared your stories, I applaud you, and THANK YOU for being so f*cking BRAVE.

As for me, I need to apologize if I still cannot remove my reviews here from GR. It's just that those reviews are my record of reading experience, and even if I know that it will be forever smeared now, but I still can't delete it.

BUT, I am in the process of removing rating, and put the reviews under spoiler tag, also put the link to this conversation. I apologize if it's not enough. I hope it doesn't feel like I'm supporting them.

Again, thank you for everyone who have speaking up. And I'd love to see the fight continues until Intermix and St. Martin Press also makes their move. Because let's face it, those are "bigger" publishers, and they have more reach somehow (since they attract MF crowds), and I see how some of the SH squad who writes MF books are gathering their support from MF authors and readers.

Marbles wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Sali Mes wrote: "I copy/past because I don't know how to post picture

To say that everything they've shared is genuine, when they already said on their "apology" post that they are..."

Oh, my bad. It didn't say who it was from and I assumed it was another SH post.

Thebomb wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "are K.j.Charles and L.A.witt good authors or not?"

LA Witt is on the bad list I believe. She defended Santino (there is a link with a screenshot floating around some..."

Like I said, I haven't seen any evidence of any abusive speech. So, it's up to you to delete or not.

I was lost for a second there. Yes, it's Garrett Leigh post that I shared not SH.

Shelby wrote: "Riptide responded to my email to, for those interested:

Hello Shelby,

It's very sweet of you to ask. Amazon will take the money from us. We can recover some funds from Santino via his final few ..."

Thank you for posting!!

Ami wrote: "While I was told by a friend and asked Jenn about SH's identity through private DM on Twitter, it wasn't until reading Susan's status as well as various victims confession that I knew how far this ..."

Ami, if you do decide to alter your reviews and want to add a link to this discussion it might be better to do the linking in a comment instead of the review space.

Especially if you’re going to put the review itself in spoiler tags.

Only b/c GRs has a policy against reviews being ‘about the author’ and if people start reporting reviews mentioning this issue (which seems like a pretty good possibility with this author and his fans/friends) there’s a good chance it could end up getting your review deleted.

It’s up to you, of course, but you seem understandably attached to what you’ve written so you may want to go the better safe than sorry route.

Shelby wrote: "Marbles wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Sali Mes wrote: "I copy/past because I don't know how to post picture

To say that everything they've shared is genuine, when they already said on their "apology" po..."

I edited the post. My apologies for the confusion.

Thebomb wrote: "oops,deleted my comment by accident, so I delete L.a.Witt books? but not k.j.Charles.

thanks. .."

Sorry, I can't make this decision for you. In the end, you must decide for yourself whom you are continuing to support. Like I said earlier, a lot of supportive authors and not so supportive ones have been mentioned in the last few pages in this thread. When you have the time, just look through it :)

TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "Ami wrote: "While I was told by a friend and asked Jenn about SH's identity through private DM on Twitter, it wasn't until reading Susan's status as well as various victims confession that I knew h..."

Ah, okay, thanks for the tips.

Kate wrote: "Thanks so much for getting back to me. I have a lot of titles, I don’t want to screw the narrators. Does anyone know if are affected? I called audible and they had no idea what I was taking about. I really don’t like returning audiobooks because I know it screws the author. This is such a shitty thing .."

Some are getting paid up-front but some are getting paid through royalties. If you want to make sure you could get in contact with the narrators and ask them. Explain the situation (I'm sure most are aware of it now) and your concerns and I think they'd be happy to answer. If you find out something, make sure to share it with us :)

Josy wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "oops,deleted my comment by accident, so I delete L.a.Witt books? but not k.j.Charles.

thanks. .."

Sorry, I can't make this decision for you. In the end, you must decide for yours..."

okay thank you

@shelby, sorry to confuse you , thanks ;)

TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "Ami wrote: "While I was told by a friend and asked Jenn about SH's identity through private DM on Twitter, it wasn't until reading Susan's status as well as various victims confession that I knew h..."

Oh I thought what Ami proposed was a great way so I did that to my reviews. I'm gonna change it and add the comment then. I just hate to know that people in the future might not get the memo. Like right now, of course it's known, but what about in a year? Two years? New readers won't know and I would hate to think SH will get readers again in the future. I can't lie, the books were great and well written, but knowing now that they're people's life? That SH stole those life stories make me sick. No wonder they sounded so real and relatable.
Anyway, I don't know how to make sure I keep my reviews (in spoilers) but still make sure future M/M readers will be aware...

I just realized, I posted this to Twitter but not here. Sorry. Yesterday was a rough day, between trying to get all my doctors sorted out, emails from my divorce lawyer, and my senior service dog having two seizures. (He's fine now, though a little clingy.)

https://twitter.com/JordanSBrock/stat...

I'm very sorry this happened. I wasn't close to SH, except to tell him and ME I enjoyed the Cyberlove series. Everything else by SH was too angsty and heavy for me, considering the year I've been having.

And I'm sorry I've been so silent on this issue. Even the threat of doxxing someone is enough to trigger an anxiety attack. I've been stalked by exes, and it's never ended well for me, so I'm sorry that my instinct was to just keep my head down and try to stay out of the line of fire.

But I want to thank everyone in this thread for coming forward and sharing their stories. I know how hard it is to speak up, especially when you feel like it's the other side that has all the power.

You all did a good thing, coming forward. I'm just sorry the price was so high.

And if anyone needs cheering up, here's my species-confused service dog squeezing through a cat door in a gate: https://twitter.com/JordanSBrock/stat...

EmilieSA wrote: "Anyway, I don't know how to make sure I keep my reviews (in spoilers) but still make sure future M/M readers will be aware... "

At the moment, my only hope is that they also see the comments. I know I should not be too attached with my "review". But I just can't delete them. It's a record of my reading experience then. Sorry again if it's not enough :(

I know there's been a lot of chatter about co-authors & everyone's going to have to make their own decisions there but I wanted to say if what Marvin says in this: https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat...
is true I want to thank all the authors who stood up for people like Noah, whose life got appropriated by an amoral person for financial gain.

More from Riptide:

https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...

"But essentially, no matter the format (ebook, print, audio, or translation), returns won't come out of Santino's pocket; short of a lawsuit that could take years, publishers have no real way of recovering money once it's been paid to an author. This of course only applies to books that were released through a publisher. Self-pub is a very different story."

EmilieSA wrote: "I just hate to know that people in the future might not get the memo. Like right now, of course it's known, but what about in a year? Two years? New readers won't know and I would hate to think SH will get readers again in the future....”

I get that completely. I was not pleased back in 2012 (or thereabouts) when they instituted that change and it still peeves me. I do understand their position, but as a reader, I’ve always been in the camp that believes readers should be able to warn other readers about things like this.

I wish I had a better way to offer you, but I don’t. I know that a lot of people won’t see the added links in comments, but it’s still better than nothing, imho. Better to be cautious and follow the rules than run the risk of it being deleted altogether.

Though I’d think it’s probably more likely if the review itself is in spoiler tags b/c there’s a higher chance people will go the actual review. Maybe?

But, yeah. It kind of sucks. :/

there's always google and twitter, I don't think something like this will go by unnoticed by new readers especially when they see the removed reviews on Gr at least.

but I definitely feel like real people and fans should be warned of the kind of things that happened to Noah and Jenn and others. I mean isn't that ground for a lawsuit or something? it's too dangerous.

[I'm just a former reader but disgusted with this whole mess]

nm theyve mde this ridicoulously hard to show and I give UP.

If you want to make sure you're quoting and talking to the right person, you can copy paste their name and quote and put italics. The little button above the chat box that says "some html is ok" has a list of codes and how to use them.

You know what, I am still going to link Riptide statement and DSP twitter on my reviews for SH books. If GR deletes them, that's okay. SH is the core of the matter, so I'm going to have to be okay with it if my record of reading experience is gone. I just have to remember that this is NOT about me. It's about the vile things SH did to the victims.

This status link will be added to SH's co-authors works instead. Because yes, I also read them, sadly :(

Does anyone have screencaps of where the other authors on the "bad list" were using abusive language? I haven't seen anything yet. I'm giving them the benefit of doubt. I know where I stand on SH. I know where I stand on returning his books. But for all the shade that's being thrown their way, I personally haven't seen anyone post anything to show evidence of their behaviour. And I personally would like to see something concrete before I cast stones.

Shelby wrote: "More from Riptide:

https://twitter.com/RiptideBooks/stat...

"But essentially, no matter the format (ebook, print, audio, or translation), returns won't come out of Santino's po..."

Thanks!!
So... Do you think "There have been many, many members of the community setting beautiful examples of graciousness, forgiveness, and kindness this week; we are doing our best to follow their lead." means they are financially prepared for all the returns including Amazon's or are they doing everything they can to be supportive in the hopes it won't break their neck?

Ami wrote: "As for me, I need to apologize if I still cannot remove my reviews here from GR. It's just that those reviews are my record of reading experience, and even if I know that it will be forever smeared now, but I still can't delete it."

Ami, I know how you feel and that's why I wasn't removing reviews at first either, just putting under a spoiler. But I've since changed my mind. However, I do have Calibre and keep all my books in it, so I've been c&p my reviews into Calibre's metadata for each book before removing my reviews. Plus, the export .csv file should have all your reviews on it too.

I'm also adding the review highlights to my private notes.

TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "I get that completely. I was not pleased back in 2012 (or thereabouts) when they instituted that change and it still peeves me. I do understand their position, but as a reader, I’ve always been in the camp that believes readers should be able to warn other readers about things like this."

You both are not alone there. I also am firmly in that camp.

Thanks for giving the heads-up about GR rules about this stuff in reviews, Tina.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "I'm also adding the review highlights to my private notes...."

This is a great idea! I hadn't even thought of that.

edit: I don't review often so I didn't mind deleting them but I know for many readers it's important. I've put links to this thread and Riptide's statement into the review space a few days ago and so far they haven't been flagged but I'm expecting it. Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Ami wrote: "You know what, I am still going to link Riptide statement and DSP twitter on my reviews for SH books. If GR deletes them, that's okay. SH is the core of the matter, so I'm going to have to be okay ..."

Ami wrote: "EmilieSA wrote: "Anyway, I don't know how to make sure I keep my reviews (in spoilers) but still make sure future M/M readers will be aware... "

At the moment, my only hope is that they also see t..."

There’s nothing wrong with being attached to your reviews. I know finding out things like this about authors of books you loved can taint the experience so I think it’s understandable to want to hold on to what you loved about a book before all the bad feelings about the person who wrote it.

You don’t have to erase your thoughts/feelings about the books. Or feel bad that you liked, or even still like them.

Remove the ratings. Add links to make readers aware. Do whatever you’re comfortable with.

Most of us are here b/c we love books, we love reading. Authors who do crap like this can sometimes kill a little bit of that, dim that love, hinder that enjoyment. And that pisses me off. B/c it’s happened to me.

This douche (douches?) took a lot from a lot of people. Don’t let them take that too.

AnnMarie wrote: In our defense this was well before this situation was well-known. The mods have posted about this subject, if you are a member you can find it HERE.

As a member of the group, thank you. You now gave the other members an opportunity to be informed and make up their own minds.

Josy wrote: "Thanks!!
So... Do you think "There have been many, many members of the community setting beautiful examples of graciousness, forgiveness, and kindness this week; we are doing our best to follow their lead." means they are financially prepared for all the returns including Amazon's or are they doing everything they can to be supportive in the hopes it won't break their neck? ..."

I think they are sincere.

Sakura, whoever you are, thank you for all that you've done to help!
https://twitter.com/sweetsakuradoll/s...

Rosalinda *KRASNORADA* wrote: "I haven't even read it yet but I wanted to share a new update

http://santinohassell.com/2018/03/ful...

I admire you all!"

Brad Vance posted an analysis of the above SH update on his FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/brad.vance.1...

Sorry if this is a repeat. I'm still getting through all the posts.

JenMcJ wrote: "I think they are sincere...."

Sorry!! I realize my wording was not quite right! Damn these foreign languages, lol! I don't doubt that they are sincere. I was more concerned if they are really prepared to stomach the financial fall-out returns from Amazon are going to cause or if they are saying they are fine with it although it will be really hard to absorb the losses.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Ami wrote: "I'm also adding the review highlights to my private notes. ."

That’s one of my workarounds, too. I actually have a ‘see private notes’ shelf and in cases like this I’ll save relevant links, quotes, etc. to my private notes.

It’s mostly for my own reference, but oftentimes people will see the shelf and ask me what’s up. Then I have all the info right there to offer them.


Alexandra wrote: "Thanks for giving the heads-up about GR rules about this stuff in reviews, Tina.”

No problem. :)

For the person who wanted to know who spoke up, from what I've seen or read here : Brad Vance (Got threatened by SH), Tarian PS Knock, HL Holston, Isobel Starling, Dani Alexander, Alexandr Voinov, Sean Kennedy were some of the first one to talk/share about it before Riptide announcement. There is a post on Tarian PS Knock facebook page from 3 days ago were SH, Megan and Karen responded.
Lots of other author talked about it too, Leta Blake, Clancy Nacht, Suki Fleet, Avery Cockburn, Megan Derr, Cole Mccade, Mathew Metzger, JC long, Merikan, Lisa Henry, Renae Kaye. Sue Brown, Keira Andrews, Meredith King..
There are many more.. And like Sakura who choose to help anonymously.

For the person who wanted to see who threatened and tried to shup up other speaking about SH, Nikki on Twitter started sharing some of the hate and abuse she received, like here : https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat... or here https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat...

Hey guys,

Nikki, the person hwo has been screaming about this for who knows how long, is really hurting. I'm hoping we can send her some love and thanks for all she did.

I'dd suggest a mass tweet of some kind and an encouragement to anyone who was cruel to her to apologize *directly* to her.

Keep in mind this person has lost friends, has lost at least one account that I can find, had lost her reputation and has been unheard for at least a year while big names, huge names in and outside of the community have called her "scum" and other things.

This is her twitter: https://twitter.com/ease_dropper

I'm sure she'd appreciate the fact that we are all here because of her shouting. And only Susan & Jenn and Sakura listened.

I'd like to keep the messages positive.

#Sali Mes: You can add these authors to your list
Kaje Harper
https://www.facebook.com/KajeHarper/p...

TJ Klune apologized in this thread

SJ Himes
https://www.facebook.com/sheena.j.him...

HelenKay Dimon also apologized and posted - I think it was her Twitter.

Josy wrote: "#Sali Mes: You can add these authors to your list
Kaje Harper
https://www.facebook.com/KajeHarper/p...

TJ Klune apologized in this thread

SJ Himes
https://www.facebook.com/shee..."

I don’t see the link for TJ Klune

There are people, authors included that believed SH back in january when he made his doxing accusations. Some because they didn't looked closer, some because of their own bad experiences with readers. Some as Part of an inner circle. A lot of them have written their apology in the last days.
I think we can agree the one to blame is SH. When we now start talking about lists of good and bad authors we won't help anyone. Not the victims, not the community... This will lead to more anger, fights and heartbreak. And it will redirect the anger from the Person who is the one to blame: SH.
Everyone of us has an opinion of authors and their reaction and will choose to buy or not buy their books. But I don't think these lists are the way to go.

Andrea wrote: " I don't think these lists are the way to go"

I agree partially. Most of the authors have given sincere apologies. However, two that I know of have given apologies tha tread more like "I'm sorry I was duped too" when they were directly responsible for at least one person's twitter account being closed. They called her scum. They reported her. She's lost a lot in this fight and only Amy Joe Cousins has apologized directly to her. Some are even saying "well she was too nasty about it" as an excuse. Here's the thing about that: Sonny Hassell's BRAND was as an asshole. His entire persona was about being reveling in being vitriolic and misanthropic. To say that one person was rude and that's why no one listened to her? She deserves an apology from the authors who directed their fans at her and directed hate directly at her.

And I think from now on, one of the ways we heal the community is by authors *not* sending any fans directly towards another. This should be a rule really.

Andrea wrote: "There are people, authors included that believed SH back in january when he made his doxing accusations. Some because they didn't looked closer, some because of their own bad experiences with reade..."

Well said. I don't think it is up to me to decided if these authors perpetuated SH's behaviour, if they were victims in this too, if their apologies are sincere. Only they know and if they were a guilty party, they have to live with that. I think each reader needs to make the choice that they can live with. Having seen my sister involved in a very emotionally & psychologically abusive relationship, I've seen first hand how an intelligent person can believe the best of bad people, how they themselves turn into someone you'd hardly recognize. We're all just human, sometimes the heart overrides the mind.

Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: I don’t see the link for TJ Klune.."

It was in this thread and I had to look for it

https://www.goodreads.com/comment/ind...
https://www.goodreads.com/comment/ind...