Geoff > Status Update

David wrote: "But honestly the judgment of the experts was seriously, seriously flawed as well in so many fucking ways...."

Pathetically wrong.

I don't believe Blood and Soil won in 2016. Fuck you America.

Quite possibly the whole paraphernalia of expertise was fucking rotten to the core.

This is history, I guess. Things go in a certain predictable direction until they don't.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_an...

I am struggling with my usual tactic of reading right-wing sites in order to get that perspective...there is far too much "ding dong the witch is dead" (I swear I have seen that phrase hundreds and hundreds of times in the comments on those sites). There is also a lot of "Praise Jesus" going on - apparently the fact that they could triumph in a rigged system indicates the hand of God being at work...

But really the sad thing is how many people are happy that, "at last", the government can start looking after the ordinary people and doing things to turn their lives around, not realising that Trump has absolutely no intention of doing anything to help them...

Geoff wrote: "This morning is the nadir of my relationship to my home country - - even throughout the 8 years of Bush Cheney I got it to some degree, I understood. I don't understand this. This is beyond reason ..."

I felt radicalized by the 2004 election - when I was still a month and a half too young to vote but cried at Bush's reelection; I became quite the radical for a while, but then my activism fell off during the Obama years and I became more of an isolated aesthete

This may have a similar effect; definitely right now I'm feeling a strong need to band together with others.

Seek community, friend.

To be fair, it looks as though more people voted for Clinton than for Trump. By the time of the next election, Republicans will only have won the popular vote in 1 presidential election in 32 years. So describing it as the death of the Democratic Party seems a little premature to me.

Unless, obviously, they're all rounded up and shot, or there's a nuclear war. Both of which probably won't happen.

Of course, it's not great to realise that a man whose most trusted allies feel they cannot trust to control his own twitter accounts is now responsible for the entire survival of the human species. But... ok, there's no real 'but' there.

Our saving grace is that Trump is probably too much of a fraud to bother doing anything horrific; so really it's probably, probably just going to be Mike Pence with total lock on congress and domination of the supreme court for a generation* pushing forward the most extreme conservative platform since... well, at least since Hoover. So that's something?

*I expect nightly vigils across the country for the health and happiness of Justices Ginsburg, Kennedy and Breyer, who will be at least 87, 84 and 82 by the time there's a non-fascist in power again. I bet RBG is having some regrets now about not having retired a few years ago... can anyone imagine a Supreme Court with 2, 3 or 4 appointments by Mike Pence?

Yeah, I think Trump being a fraud is probably the saving grace here.

He doesn't actually have any ideological commitments

https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...

*saving grace might be too strong - the sliver of hope

But no, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say the Democratic party establishment is over.

What possible reason would you have for not going for an outsider candidate like Bernie in 2020? After this travesty.

Manny wrote: "The thing that worries me most is that the US population could have had such bad judgement. This just doesn't come across as a smart decision. I'm expecting a fair proportion of the people who vote..."

Do bear in mind that Trump doesn't seem to be popular. Lot of fuss about the fact that only about 35-40% admit liking him in polls, but more interesting I think is that only 9% said they were excited by the thought of him winning. This was very much a vote against, rather than a vote for.

[And don't get too excited about the polls being wrong. 538 was giving him a 1/3 chance of winning, and he only won extremely narrowly (probably losing the popular vote, which they thought was a 1/10 combination). 2:1 odds seem reassuring, but 2:1 things happen 1 time in 3. The polls weren't that wrong, just a couple of percent in a couple of states, mostly within the stated margin of error. (The people who were wrong were the smug idiot prediction sites who thought that a 2% lead in polls with 20% undecided translated to a 99% chance of Clinton winning. Idiots.)]

World media reactions are telling. Whilst RT is having a good field day, anchors & reporters at the BBC seem on the verge of crying. Anybody watching? Trump has been called a buffoon in Westminster. Borris Johnson and Cameron among others called him a joke. It'd be an interesting "special relationship" that Ms May speaks of.

Reports of some European anchors breaking down in tears.

Peeyush wrote: "Jane Eyre or Metamorphosis, or Middlemarch if the person has read long novels."

I think that's the wrong status update, but thanks anyway!

Yes, I realized that.

Look, there is no silver lining here. Beyond whatever Trump may or may not accomplish, the very fact of him winning the election points to the deep, deep, abiding evil that resides in the American heart. This is confirmation of all my worst, at times I thought perhaps exaggerated, feelings. This is beyond exaggeration. We have elected a man without an iota of qualifications to run the most complex economy and most powerful army humanity has ever known, and we have elected him because of an urge toward resurgent white supremacy. How do we face this? This is real.

MJ wrote: "There's a spare room at my place for some of you."

Don't be surprised if we take you up on this. Shit I'd do it just to rifle through your bookshelves.

Gary Johnson took more than 3.8m votes. Not an insignificant number. I'm just thinking if people had really wanted they could keep Trump out of power very easily. Just vote between Hilary and Johnson? Or even Stein..

One can see a double pattern in US elections system. 1) An overwhelming majority of people vote on party lines come what may. So even if the Repubs had nominated a real donkey for president, he'd have been elected. 2) American presidency rotates between two parties every 8 years and policy differences play a small role in the end.

I think this election shows that American politics is as tribalistic as any other country that often get labelled as such in the media.

Don't flee the country...

We'll see if that deportation force actually materializes; I'm confident there's a huge group of people that would mobilize to obstruct its work. We're not completely powerless because he won the election.

We'll be unpacking what this means for the American psyche for decades and decades. This could be interesting to read about in a hundred years, if books are still written then.

"Also, half of America? Fuck you. I'm not one of you and I don't like you - stay away from me and my family you scary idiots."

It's almost hard to believe that being told this daily for the last year hasn't convinced those people to vote the way you want them to.

Nicole wrote: ""Also, half of America? Fuck you. I'm not one of you and I don't like you - stay away from me and my family you scary idiots."

It's almost hard to believe that being told this daily for the last ..."

If you voted for Trump, go away from my thread right now.

I owe Trump and his supporters zero respect

Giving supporters of fascist white supremacist con men basic respect isn't part of my deal

Well, if I had been a trump voter, I would definitely have been persuaded by that argument. Since I wasn't, do I have the right to say stuff, or only stuff that you agree with?

Nicole wrote: "Well, if I had been a trump voter, I would definitely have been persuaded by that argument. Since I wasn't, do I have the right to say stuff, or only stuff that you agree with?"

You can say whatever you please, anywhere else. This space is reserved for jeremiads and laments.

But what you're essentially saying, Nicole, is that you sympathize with voting out of spite, not reason. That you would wager our collective future on whether another citizen said something rude or not. This is the apex of irresponsible political behavior - a politics of personal spite.

One thing that is certainly true is that those of us, myself included, who have been living in an echo chamber for the last few decades need to seriously consider what we can do to reach out to those sections of the population who clearly feel deeply confused and frightened and left out. Education reform, and in particular, emphasis on critical thinking skills rather than simple regurgitation and test preparation is vital. Clearly it is no longer essential for politicians to be "truthful" and people need to be taught (because such skills do not magically sprout in the brains of teenagers) how to unpick the information thrown at them.

The point being that, without this sort of thing, the divisions will worsen and any action against Trump and the policies he puts through will just be labelled as libtard butthurt and have no effect.

Personally, the lesson I want to take from Trump and Brexit is that I need to be more engaged with, more active in, my community and make more of an effort to help those who feel left behind by the economic and social changes of the last few decades.

I am angry, yes, and frustrated but actually I would direct my anger towards those who should have known better - Bernie supporters who refused to vote, those who voted for Stein, Businessmen who voted for Trump because they know he will lower their corporation tax etc. I feel nothing but sorrow for those who have be duped by Trump and who seem to genuinely believe he will do something to help them.

Jonathan, brother, I ain't feelin' no collectivity right now friend. Gimme a few weeks.

Goeff wrote: You can say whatever you please, anywhere else. This space is reserved for jeremiads and laments."

And a few jokes to lighten it all up? Favourite tweets I've seen:

"Donald Trump is a reminder that you should just apply for that job you want even if you don't have the experience."

"Have you tried turning 2016 off and on again?"

"It's ok America, Kanye West 2020 will fix everything."

"'A singer got Nobel for literature. Trump got presidency. Son, it's a land of possibilities. Don't come back.' An Asian mother on phone to her son."

"Americans do need to build a wall. Around the White House." (that's mine)

The following is not a joke.

A tweet by The Times of India reads (link)

‘It’s official, Donald Trump grabs America by the…, Congratulations Mr President elect!’.

Finally:

Geoff wrote: "But what you're essentially saying, Nicole, is that you sympathize with voting out of spite, not reason. That you would wager our collective future on whether another citizen said something rude or..."

No, she's not saying that. She's saying that the common attitude of white progressives, that anyone who doesn't agree with them is scum not worth talking to and can just fuck off, is a huge part of why Trump just got elected. It's not just spite, either. It's confirming the worst prejudices of reactionaries who think you're motivated only by Hatred of America; it's a classic deviant pathway paradox (telling people that they are X causes them to think they are X and act like they are X; telling people that they are hateful fascists makes them act like hateful fascits); it increases personal anger, which changes people's priorities (it makes them more scared and defensive); and it misses the opportunity to educate and persuade.

For quite a while now, soi dissant liberals in America have been adopting the behaviour of an intolerant majority and telling your enemies that they just have to put up and shut up, and regardless of whether that's theoretically a good thing or not (tolerating intolerance debate, etc), it kind of runs into a bit of a strategic blind hole because you are not the majority. Majorities can tell everyone else to fuck off out of their country, but minorities, however tempting it may be, don't really have that luxury.

And no, saying this doesn't make me (or Nicole) a Trump supporter. I loathe the guy as much as anybody else. But the left doesn't get a pass on this. And four years from time when they've nominated some radical socialist who gets them very excited because what's the point of nominating a centrist if she's going to lose anyway, and then that nominee gets crushed and Trump gets four more years despite a 10% favourability rating, the left will STILL not deserve a pass.

It's deeply unfair that the right can get their way by yelling really loud and the left can't beat them just by yelling even louder. But that's what happens when there are, for now, more of them than of you.

I also, incidentally, don't understand this common reaction - not just you - that Trump winning tells you something new and frightening about the nature of America. Let's get real here: the surprise amounts to Trump doing 1% better than expected in a couple of state. So Trump did a couple of tenths of a percent better than you thought he would do: why does that challenge your worldview? Sure, those percent are very important for the future. But they don't really tell us anything new about the situation in America today. We already knew all this.

[In some states, Trump did do surprisingly well in rural areas. But that shouldn't be an existential shock. That wasn't about Trump vs non-Trump, that was about Trump vs lingering-bonds-of-inherited-party-affiliation. Those people already supported Trumpism and we knew it (and/or opposed Clintonism and we knew it), we're just a bit surprised that they bothered to vote for him this election, rather than it taking a couple more cycles for that realignment to spread so far]

That is, Wastrel, exactly what I am saying, and better than I am managing to say it.

I'm probably the only happy person on GR today!

This is only a shock to those living in the north east or west coast or europe.

I tried to make the very realistic shot of a Trump win well known. Meet your wake up call.

Actually, I'm also saying that anyone who says of a giant group of people that they are essentially all vermin has pretty much ceded the moral high ground, hate-wise.

Nicole wrote: "That is, Wastrel, exactly what I am saying, and better than I am managing to say it."

First off, I'm not a liberal. I'm a Marxist. We are known for our decent levels of hatred.

Second, you have a point. And are correct. But you should also understand that it is going to be some time before I can reach out my hand and sympathize with what I consider to be a morally repugnant world view.

Nick wrote: "Meet your wake up call."

Unfortunately Nick, when Trump finally gets in there and starts making things happen, it's probably gonna be your side's wake up call.

Nicole wrote: "Actually, I'm also saying that anyone who says of a giant group of people that they are essentially all vermin has pretty much ceded the moral high ground, hate-wise."

You are right. I don't hate my dad, who voted for Trump. But I also don't respect a large aspect of his personality. He is human though. All-too human.

Nick wrote: "I'm probably the only happy person on GR today!

..."

Congratulations Nick, I know that the issues you care about were very important to you, and would not in any way seek to undermine that.

I would, however, be interested to see in a year or so's time where we are in terms of what Trump has actually done. We have seen here in the UK how quickly the Brexit camp have discarded their campaign promises and I think Trump remains a complete wild-card when it comes to predicting what actually makes its way into law under his presidency.

It may well be that some of the things that matter to you, and that one would expect a Republican president to put into operation, do not actually happen...

Geoff wrote: "Nick wrote: "Meet your wake up call."

Unfortunately Nick, when Trump finally gets in there and starts making things happen, it's probably gonna be your side's wake up call."

We will shortly find that out. And I'll be the first to admit wrong if that's the case.

Geoff wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Actually, I'm also saying that anyone who says of a giant group of people that they are essentially all vermin has pretty much ceded the moral high ground, hate-wise."

You are right..."

Well, but isn't the fact that your dad is one of the voters sort of encouraging? I mean in the sense that people's worst fears of gangs of racist nazis wilding in the street are probably wrong, and what we actually are dealing with is just people who are also angry and frightened and tribal and all that?

I personally find the most upsetting thing the fact that I don't know a single trump voter, and yet I woke up this morning to an electoral map awash in red. I feel like a freak in a closed information bubble.

Nicole wrote: "Well, but isn't the fact that your dad is one of the voters sort of encouraging? I mean in the sense that people's worst fears of gangs of racist nazis wilding in the street are probably wrong, and what we actually are dealing with is just people who are also angry and frightened and tribal and all that? "

My dad is a belligerent racist who would certainly support mass deportations and in some cases probably executions. He also goes to a Methodist church every Sunday. These kinds of things are why my head is spinning.

Jonathan wrote: "Nick wrote: "I'm probably the only happy person on GR today!

..."

Congratulations Nick, I know that the issues you care about were very important to you, and would not in any way seek to undermin..."

I don't doubt the wild card factor at all. But with the house and senate locked up by conventional republicans, there's only so much damage he can do. We will certainly see what happens, especially in the financial industry (where I'll see things first). I am not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Geoff wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Well, but isn't the fact that your dad is one of the voters sort of encouraging? I mean in the sense that people's worst fears of gangs of racist nazis wilding in the street are prob..."

Then you may be reduced to settling for the fact that he's not wilding. Which I am genuinely sorry to hear. Still, a person.

I may end up eating these words, I really hope I don't, but I don't think there will be mass deportations. I think that there will damage on the supreme court and international climate change negotiations fronts, I think workers' rights will get even worse than they already are (though that would probably also have happened under clinton), and corporate power will continue to increase (ditto). But I honestly, truly do not think that people are in some kind of large-scale immediate physical danger, nor do I think that democracy is over, that the US will become a dictatorship or a fascist state, or that trump will start a nuclear war (all things I see people claiming to be afraid of now that there is a change in the executive branch).

We'll see what we'll see. Conservatives control every aspect of government including the supreme court here in Wisconsin and it still hasn't emerged as the land of milk and honey. In fact, we often lag compared to similar sized states such as Minnesota and Iowa. My guess is we'll see soaring deficits based on tax cuts for the wealthy and business and increased military spending. Just basing that off the last time republicans ran the show. It'll be interesting to see how bad the next recession is too. It's been 8 years since the last and we're sure to cycle one in during term one.

Nicole wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Well, but isn't the fact that your dad is one of the voters sort of encouraging? I mean in the sense that people's worst fears of gangs of racist nazis wilding in the s..."

I like your optimism, Nicole. Apologies for my anger directed toward you earlier. I don't agree with your optimism though. We are in uncharted regions here. Don't think that anything is off the table. Anything can potentially happen.

James wrote: "We'll see what we'll see. Conservatives control every aspect of government including the supreme court here in Wisconsin and it still hasn't emerged as the land of milk and honey. In fact, we often..."

This and the climate change reversals. The fact that he believes climate change is a hoax, aligned with a Republican led Congress, is horrifying to me.

Also, goodbye environmental and financial regulations.

Geoff wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Well, but isn't the fact that your dad is one of the voters sort of encouraging? I mean in the sense that people's worst fears of gangs of racist nazis w..."

If they do open concentration up camps, then I owe you a drink.

Geoff wrote: "Also, goodbye environmental and financial regulations."

I know some of you view this as a positive thing. Trust me, it's not.

Nicole wrote: "If they do open concentration up camps, then I owe you a drink. "

It's not gonna have to be that extreme to be extremely effective.

I can think of all sorts of weird ways in which this could have been engineered by an outside agency. I'll be disappointed if I don't see some things coming out shortly along these distopian lines. Actually I can envision very easily a piece coming out within a day or two from 538 with the headline, SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP HERE.

Ted wrote: "I can think of all sorts of weird ways in which this could have been engineered by an outside agency. I'll be disappointed if I don't see some things coming out shortly along these distopian lines...."

But then what? That would be even more immediately horrifying.

Ted wrote: "I can think of all sorts of weird ways in which this could have been engineered by an outside agency. I'll be disappointed if I don't see some things coming out shortly along these distopian lines...."
Nope. Just more people are driven by party loyalty and easily taken in by a strong but shallow message that a reality tv star is the only one who can make things better. Democrats lost working class white folks in the Midwest and it cost them the election.