Geoff > Status Update

There seem to be a lot of Scandinavian trolls these days. Why is that?

ATJG wrote: "There seem to be a lot of Scandinavian trolls these days. Why is that?"

Because they're spoiled by their generous social welfare system?

Geoff wrote: "ATJG wrote: "There seem to be a lot of Scandinavian trolls these days. Why is that?"

Because they're spoiled by their generous social welfare system?"

I didn't think of that. Here we are discussing our shit health care system when what should appear? Why a Scandinavian troll who never had to worry about health insurance a day in his LIFE.

ATJG wrote: "Geoff wrote: "ATJG wrote: "There seem to be a lot of Scandinavian trolls these days. Why is that?"

Because they're spoiled by their generous social welfare system?"

I didn't think of that. Here w..."

My point exactly.

Christopher wrote: " I understand my views will not be appreciated here as there is an overwhelming support for Mrs C, it's almost like standing in a blizzard"

Now who's jumping to conclusions everywhere?

If you understand what it's like living in the US, then you understand what it's like being shaken down at every turn by a political machine so fucked we're now being led by an infantile cheeto-colored watersports enthusiast and television personality? Your substandard English usage leads me to believe you're not an American living abroad, so, what? You came here for six months in college? You've got a friend of a friend who lives in Des Moines? Tell me, how do you know?

Christopher wrote: "Wow such aggression, Geoff certainly likes swearing, doesn't he and jumping to conclusions everywhere. 1. Does my name look Norwegian? 2. Why would I have no idea what it's like living in the US. 3..."

If you had taken the time to read even a small part of this thread, instead of jumping in and trolling, you would know I didn't support "Mrs C", I supported Bernie and then anyone who wasn't a megalomaniac narcissist idiot-child sexual abusing racist. But here you are, saying things about "assumptions". I still feel it's safe to say you have no idea what it's like to live in the USA. And again, lovely bitching about the American left from someone living in one of the great social welfare systems on earth.

Christopher wrote: "Ah, you got me. I spent 12 months there under the Clinton regime. I think the whole wide world has an idea about the US, we never stop hearing about you. We have YOU shoved down our throats from su..."

Christopher, jag ser inga böcker på norska på dina hyllor. Hur kommer det sig?

Christopher wrote: "Wow such aggression, Geoff certainly likes swearing, doesn't he and jumping to conclusions everywhere. 1. Does my name look Norwegian? 2. Why would I have no idea what it's like living in the US. 3..."

It was I who made the Bukowski crack, not Geoff. And I agree that you are welcome to share whatever opinion you should so choose. I simply did the same thing. I'll do it again:

"So what if I like Bukowski at least he had the balls to say it how it was."

Yes, but he said it so very poorly. He's what we call in the USsrA, "Raymon Carver for people who don't understand Raymond Carver."

Christopher wrote: "Ah, you got me. I spent 12 months there under the Clinton regime. I think the whole wide world has an idea about the US, we never stop hearing about you. We have YOU shoved down our throats from su..."

The only Americans' interests Trump is putting first are people in the highest 3% earnings bracket. Keeping us safe? Protecting jobs? Lowering crime? Helping the impoverished? How have you convinced yourself he's done anything in those areas? Since you know so much about America, tell me some progress he's made there.

Christopher wrote: "Ah, you got me. I spent 12 months there under the Clinton regime. I think the whole wide world has an idea about the US, we never stop hearing about you. We have YOU shoved down our throats from su..."

Christopher, look. I respect your opinions because I respect you as a human being. At least to the extent that I'm interacting with you, here, as an internet stranger. That said, you have to understand that if the responses from us you've gotten so far are aggressive, it's because we're on this thread commiserating and then you show up to get a rise from us--which of course you got.

Unfortunately, no, I don't believe Donald Trump has the best interests of the majority of Americans at heart. That doesn't mean for a second I was fooled by Hillary Clinton either. Had she won the election perhaps I'd be here bitching about her instead. But the reality of our lives now is increasingly revolting. And terrifying. Politics in the US has for too long been thinly veiled class warfare and we both know which side is winning that war.

The topic of conversation today was healthcare. If we're angry it's because we actually give a shit about our compatriots. It's not a fucking political game in which to score points. These are lives we're concerned for. And legitimately I think. I am by no means badly off, relatively speaking, but I know what it's like to go to the doctor for a physical, ask one fucking question that was answered in one fucking sentence, and to have my bill increased by $500. That's a hell of a lot of money to me, Christopher. I also know what it's like to receive denial from an insurance company for a procedure that was absolutely necessary. You think this isn't a bullshit system made up to protect and increase profits for soulless corporations? And so far thank god my dealings have been limited to these instances. There are people much, much worse off than I am, and who are dealing with denial of coverage of cancer treatment, to name just one.

We're barbarians compared to you Norwegians, Christopher, and we're fucking ashamed of it. We're trying. Really fucking hard. But for generations we've met with disappointment. Maybe you can understand that. Maybe you can understand if we're angry and bitter.

Lastly, your English is pretty good, sorry to call you out on it. It's just not quite how a native speaker would employ the language.

But come to think of it neither is our President's mangled tongue, so what do I know?

ATJG wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Ah, you got me. I spent 12 months there under the Clinton regime. I think the whole wide world has an idea about the US, we never stop hearing about you. We have YOU shoved down..."

This. Pretty much says what needs to be said. Many thanks ATJG.

Christopher, look. I respect your opinions because I respect you as a human being. At least to the extent that I'm interacting with you, here, as an internet stranger. That said, you have to understand that if the responses

You know who's really at fault, ATJG? Josh Fuckin' Tillman.

Christopher,

Just so you know: this thread has a tendency to gang-up on anything against the current. Don't take it personally (just like the Bukowski joke; I just hate his writing, not you for liking it). If you find yourself banging your head against the wall at times, step back for a bit. I'm being candid and sincere. You seem genuine and concerned, although your first post was a bit rash (the batteries in socks thing) and probably ruffled a few feathers. Good luck, and say whatever you need to say/ask. We're all still in free countries for the moment.

Cody

Cody wrote: "You know who's really at fault, ATJG? Josh Fuckin' Tillman."

That motherfucker is everywhere....

Christopher wrote: "Ok ATJG so educate me, so European can understand. What is it you want? I know most countries over here have a reasonable welfare system, but don't be so fooled, please, it's working at the moment ..."

I think he made it pretty clear above what he wants. And yes, a great deal of the anger in my response was from the batteries in a sock thing. Also, assuming that because I'm anti-Trump (yes, I hate him) that I am pro all those things you listed. Just asinine. Also, this thread has 3,189 comments, and it's clear you didn't read any of them up to this point! And then you come at me with accusations of "assumptions"? "Snowflake liberal"? What does that even mean and how would you ever know if whatever that means applies to me? You didn't even know I didn't support Hillary.

ATJG wrote: "Cody wrote: "You know who's really at fault, ATJG? Josh Fuckin' Tillman."

That motherfucker is everywhere...."

He's the new _________ (I can't think of anything; you got me)

Father James Misting is a blight to our civilization.

This thread is very crufty.

[Republicans are evil!]

Christopher wrote: "Cody

No problem, I won't take it to heart. Not wanting any attack from anyone, I believe all sane persons would agree that the way the left is going now is not in anyway a good idea, violence, con..."

See but this is just all wrong and not at all in any way based on anything accurate. And proves to me you have no idea what it is to live here and only know about American life through right-wing media.

Thanks for that, Nathan.

Josh Tillman is the new CRUT.

Nailed it!

Christopher wrote: "Geoff

Come on please 90% of the media sides with the left. It's sometimes nice to get another way of thought. If you think for any moment that American life would be better under a more socialist ..."

Fox News is the highest rated and most watched news network in America. The New York Times and the Washington Post and other newspapers that are considered "liberal" are considered so by the right, because facts almost always do not fall in their favor. I have always said I will gladly pay more taxes if they do not go straight to the pockets of corporations or to arms suppliers or to support illegal foreign wars.

By the way, the capitalist system that has been in place since Reagan is verifiably destroying not only my country, but the world at large. I'd gladly give socialism a go.

You know how I know we're all well and truly fucked? Because we've come to a point where people have concluded that the right is somehow the champion of the working man. The party that does everything it can to bust unions, lower wages, eliminate worker rights, eliminate employee benefits, all of it, that they have somehow convinced so many people that they are the ones on their side - and that people buy it. We are really truly fucked.

If only the Usofa had a Left we could complain about! Even a Liberal. Wasn't it Nixon was our last Liberal prez?

God we're screwed.

This Josh Tillman stuff. Is it cruft? Or should I seriously look into who the hell you're talking about?

So....you guys have been busy here...bashing one amd all!!

So..healthcare sucks in US...immigrarion suxks too...and Trump is an utter moron!

Trump never had the popular vote....so how did he win anyway? The system was hacked....I mean...he spouts out a lot of things peopel want to hear...but is he really doing anything? I think not..just ask that poor labourer in Indiana...who was promised a better wage, better healthcare, heck, a better life!!! He is now discovering it was all a lie...a sugarcoated promise.....

This country really needs a shake-up....but not at the expense of closing our borders to immigrants...from ANY nation. This country was built on immigrants. I in no way support illegal immigrants...but certainly...do NOT make my country a home for the second coming of Hitler!!

Somewhere in here I saw that Trump wanted to help people?!?!? Yeah....that would not be those who even need that help....he only wants to help the super rich...

Taxes? He still has not disclosed his (to my knowledge)....probably because he is evading them
.and if (as I've heard..whether or not it is true)..contrary to common news...he is NOT donating his salary to a worthy cause...I just laughed at that one!!

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "This Josh Tillman stuff. Is it cruft? Or should I seriously look into who the hell you're talking about?"

Cruft

This country is embarrassing... that is all.

Is cruft punk anything like Norwegian death metal?

https://youtu.be/DPyOhP1GTRQ

Catherine wrote: "So....you guys have been busy here...bashing one amd all!!

So..healthcare sucks in US...immigrarion suxks too...and Trump is an utter moron!

Trump never had the popular vote....so how did he win..."

Christine,

In my corner of America, illegal immigrants from Mexico make the entire structure function. Virtually every conceivable industry benefits from these people who, unilaterally, have contributed to the culture and diversity invaluably.
If you are interested, I suggest reading Imperial by William T Vollmann for a very candid exploration of the phenomenon beginning hundreds-of-years ago up to the present. Both sides are examined. Brass tacks: California and most of the Southwest were able to flourish only because of the contributions of the people of Mexico (funny, as the area I am talking about was all their country not too long ago).

cody

How history will judge the USA will be the same way people shame the USSR/DPRK now. Did you all see on top of the healthcare debacle that the 200 people arrested for D.C. J20 stuff are now facing 75 years in prison? Talk about political freedom.

Cody wrote: "Catherine wrote: "So....you guys have been busy here...bashing one amd all!!

So..healthcare sucks in US...immigrarion suxks too...and Trump is an utter moron!

Trump never had the popular vote......"

Cody...first of all...it ia Catherine...NOT Christine. And second...I said I didn't have a problem with immigrant..just the ones who are here illegally....whilst they may be beneficial in their element..they DO take away from those legally here and those who are born here... so I have to disagree. Whilst this country is and was built on immigration...and these immigrants were all fleeing some sort of persecution in their countriws of origin...they came through legal channels.
Furthernore...they come here and a lot do not speak English (and refuse to learn)! I have to put my foot down on that one as well!!! America is an English speakimg country....ALL immigrants MUST learn English.

Catherine,

I am sorry for addressing you by the wrong name. I am functioning on a criminally-low amount of sleep. I misread it. I am genuinely sorry if I offended you.

As to the rest of your post, I fundamentally disagree. Extensively. Rather than excoriate you and start yet another GR fight, I will attempt to address your points from someone who lives amongst the phenomenon and is the descendent of illegal Mexican immigrants on my maternal side.

"whilst they may be beneficial in their element"

I am sure you didn't mean this to sound nearly as cold as it reads. "Their element" presupposes that they have an allotted space that they are allowed to occupy--say, mowing lawns, cooking food--but nothing beyond that. Again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

"and these immigrants were all fleeing some sort of persecution in their countriws of origin"

They still are in the case of Mexico. Have you kept up with the state of affairs in our fair southern neighbor? Mexico has been reduced to a gangland of drug cartels, and the people mere chattel to this industry. Guess where those drugs are going? The progress we saw taking place for a number of years has been entirely erased in the last 20-years. Were America to reevaluate its parochial, predatory stance on narcotics (of which I abstain), the cartels would crumble (and our ridiculously-prejudicial penal system forced to release the tens-of-thousands of the prayed-upon and institutionally-discriminated against Black and Hispanic brethren whose incarceration ratios in comparison to their White counterparts is a far greater crime against humanity than drugs). But that's never going to happen. Thus, people flee wherever they can (i.e. Hondurans, in worse positions than Mexicans, flee north into Mexico).

"they came through legal channels"

Yes, because it's pretty hard to swim the Atlantic Ocean.
The historical precedent for Mexican-American's was, and remains, illegality first, citizenship in the next generation onward. Example: my grandfather, brought into Texas by his parents in 1923. When World War II reared up, the government had no problem naturalizing him (only after he and his family tried to no avail for almost 20-years) and he served in North Africa and the European Front, notably the liberation of France vis-a-vis D-Day. Remaining in the service, he served in Korea where he received injuries (aka bullets) that claimed his life a few years into the middle-50s. I ask you, does this sound like an 'American' to you? (And I ask without teary-eyed pride of Grandpa; he died more than twenty-years before my birth--never knew the man.)

"Furthernore...they come here and a lot do not speak English (and refuse to learn)! I have to put my foot down on that one as well!!! America is an English speakimg country....ALL immigrants MUST learn English."

Why? Is it that large a inconvenience? Do the benefits they offer not outweigh your or my precious time it may take to parse what they are attempting to communicate? Besides, it is not as though they're sitting around on the dole and choosing not to attend language classes. They work harder, and for less, than anyone in the country. So many of my friend's are first-generation Americans whose parents work/worked tirelessly (oftentimes multiple jobs) to give their children better lives. My own Best-Man when I got married is the son of illegals; his mother has been a school bus driver for over 40-years, and works in the same school's cafeteria for the same amount of time. She just recently was able to stop cleaning houses after her regular jobs with her kid's assistance. Does she speak English? Not really; enough to get by.
Again, the paradigm is resolved thusly: illegal parents give birth to legal children that become contributory members of our nation. The parents die--no more illegals. These kids, as a result of neither silver spoons nor the parasitic White phenomenon of entitlement, value the ethic of hard work instilled in them. I have been personal witness to this throughout my life, and it has been my honor to know these men and women.

These are the facts of life, whether you like them or not. Sorry again about the whole 'Christine' thing.

Cody

So...agaim...we are arguing a point of legality. Well..we have to agree to disagree, then. As for learning English..yes it is a BIG point of contention. Don't for one second think that if you or I would be accepted in any other country without first lrarning rhe language. I am sorry...but I disagree...I am sure you are probably one if rhe few
..but the majority of those I have come in contact with do not learn or even try to understand.

Second...yes...these people do work hard...as do all those who come legally...I am first generation American...born of LEGAL immigrants from two foreign countries. My parents worked their asses off to give me a better life. So don't think that I don't "get" it.

They are smart people. I am in no way sayng that (Mexicans or other central Americans) belong in menial jobs...and yes, they do work hard...but they also (a lot of them) get paid cash under the table. All I am asking is that they come through legal channels. And yes...unfortunately that requires them to learn English.

Catherine wrote: "So...agaim...we are arguing a point of legality. Well..we have to agree to disagree, then. As for learning English..yes it is a BIG point of contention. Don't for one second think that if you or I ..."

I never said you don't "get" it.

Yes, we disagree profoundly.

Yes, many countries would accept us before learning the language.
Check your data on that one.

".I am sure you are probably one if rhe few..but the majority of those I have come in contact with do not learn or even try to understand."

How would you have any proof of this? Can you honestly say that they are "not trying" because they fail your metric? And what do you mean that I am one of the few?

"but they also (a lot of them) get paid cash under the table."
I know a ton of uneducated White American guys in construction, auto repair, warehouse work, etc, who also get paid cash under the table. My first job at 17 was under the table. I would rather the government increase my taxes exponentially--double, triple--than use that excuse to deny people a shot at a better life. 'Tis only money.

"All I am asking is that they come through legal channels. And yes...unfortunately that requires them to learn English."
How would this be possible, especially for Mexicans, under Trump? You act as though people are willfully deciding to NOT learn English and take the same as some form of effrontery. Are you that offended and/or do you take it that personally? My German ancestors who came here didn't speak English and lived in a German community in Minnesota. Is it different because of the intervening century? Because they were White? If your family was in imminent danger of death, would you hesitate for a moment to cross whatever imaginary line existed on a map to save yourself, your children because you didn't speak the language?

Given that all countries in the Americas are the result of invasion and systematic genocide, I'm curious to know at what point it's reasonable to talk about a moral right to claim the land for one's own and refuse admission to other people who may wish to enter it. Doing so when the genocide is still in progress seems hard to defend, and even one generation later I feel you're on shaky ground. My guess is that you need a minimum of three generations before you start to feel secure, but possibly I'm overestimating. Damn, I wish I understood ethical theory better.

Manny wrote: "Given that all countries in the Americas are the result of invasion and systematic genocide, I'm curious to know at what point it's reasonable to talk about a moral right to claim the land for one'..."

In the instances I'm referring to, the issue of Mexicans in Southern CA, one generation is generally the rule. As for moral right: we all know what a crock that is. Just ask a Native. But, hey, we gave them casinos!

Geoff wrote: "Is cruft punk anything like Norwegian death metal?
https://youtu.be/DPyOhP1GTRQ"

First, that's not death metal. That's black metal. Jeezus!

Second, no not so much cruft as necro ::
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iaj2...

Swedish death metal > Norwegian black metal

I am prepared to fight anyone on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6exw...

Niklas wrote: "Swedish death metal > Norwegian black metal
I am prepared to fight anyone on this."

There are a few exceptions (Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy) but mostly, nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glKbR...

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Niklas wrote: "Swedish death metal > Norwegian black metal
I am prepared to fight anyone on this."

There are a few exceptions (Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy) but mostly, nope.
https://www.youtube.com/w..."

You need more old skool death metal in your life. None of this fancy new melodic stuff.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Is cruft punk anything like Norwegian death metal?
https://youtu.be/DPyOhP1GTRQ"

First, that's not death metal. That's black metal. Jeezus!

Second, no not so much cruft as necro ::..."

Okay okay jeez you metal heads are so sensitive about labels - PC culture is just ruining the Scandinavian metal scene!

Niklas wrote: "Swedish death metal > Norwegian black metal

I am prepared to fight anyone on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6exw..."

Christopher is NOT going to like that. Oh but wait he's not from Norway, where's he from again? Oh that's right - "10 months in the US under Clinton" - Soon he's gonna be correcting me on the history of DC's harDCore scene because he once heard the Norwegian equivalent of Rush Limbaugh mention it in passing and now he thinks he's an expert.

Geoff wrote: "By the way, the capitalist system that has been in place since Reagan is verifiably destroying not only my country, but the world at large. I'd gladly give socialism a go."

I would too. Not all socialism has to be bad for the people.

Jessaka wrote: "Geoff wrote: "By the way, the capitalist system that has been in place since Reagan is verifiably destroying not only my country, but the world at large. I'd gladly give socialism a go."

I would t..."

People's minds narrow down to what they've known - the future doesn't have to repeat the past, though, of course, that is an entirely possible outcome.

Oh sweet baby jeebus you can't make this shit up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn....

Geoff wrote: "Oh sweet baby jeebus you can't make this shit up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...."

We're just living in, like, the most ambitious episode of Punk'd ever, right? At some point Ashton Kutcher is gonna jump out from behind Sean Spicer and yell "You got Punk'd!" or whatever and all this is gonna be over?

Geoff wrote: "Okay okay jeez you metal heads are so sensitive about labels - PC culture is just ruining the Scandinavian metal scene!"

Best comment of the day.


It's only a correlation, but I find it fascinating when people who insist others 'learn English' seem to have an infirm grasp of it themselves.

Is this still going? lol.....you guys are all crazy ..
.and yet....I keep getting sucked in!!

Well..as for "learning" English....I an fairly sure that foreign speakers will be learning better English...especially when comparing it to American English...which is distinctly different from British English!