Geoff > Status Update

Antonomasia wrote: "I haven't reasearched how registration systems in the US work, but am presuming, given your politics, that you guys don't include as "scum" those who, for example...."

Or whom our criminal justice system has disenfranchised.

Nathan "N.R." Or whom our criminal justice system has disenfranchised. "
Big problem in the US, that.
Although presumably people eligible to vote, but who don't, were the ones in question here.

Will wrote: "What, because I didn't list every conceivable possible statistical outcome, the argument is unreasonable and jingoistic?"

I specifically said ; You are not jingoistic.

uncharitably

nuff said. Now's just bad faith. Nevermind.

Suppose someone votes for Trump, Trump wins, and then proceeds to "bigly" expand deportations (to levels far exceeding the Obama administration), as he has claimed he would do. Would you (partially) blame that person for the misfortunes of these misfortunate people?

Also, suppose someone votes for Clinton, Clinton wins, and then continues her support for bombing a half-dozen countries across the Middle East and North Africa, consistent with what she has done for decades. Would you hold such a voter (partially) culpable for the marginal increase of dead bodies in these far off lands?

If you affirm only one of these, say, because you think more deaths from war or deportations are wildly unlikely, half the country will object that you are assuming facts not in evidence (with some justification). But affirming both would seem to make non-voting look like the safest choice morally, no? I guess you could deny both, but then anger at non-voters would seem strange and unwarranted.

Jayson wrote: "But affirming both would seem to make non-voting look like the safest choice morally, no?"

Yeah but I think Will's point is more that it's the local elections that we should care about, even if we find the presidential options repugnant, because more of what affects us day-to-day is decided at a local level. Which is (another) reason Trump blaming the (nonexistent, except in specific bubbles) rising violent crime rate on Obama and Clinton is preposterous. Obama doesn't make decisions that affect local police districts in practically any way.

Jayson wrote: "Suppose someone votes for xxx, xxx wins, and then proceeds to "bigly" expand deportations (to levels far exceeding the yyy administration), as he has claimed xxx would do. Would you (partially..."

Except that but Will's point is that there's a heck of a lot more going on on that ballot than just the Prezzie vote. A heck of a lot more. Just that this time of year, that's frequently what 'vote' is reduced to.

"Yeah but I think Will's point is more that it's the local elections that we should care about..."

Hmm...makes sense.

So that makes for like a four=way agree=ance. Can we agree=ance on that? all in favor.....

Good points; I'm voting for local issues and reluctantly going to punch a Prez selection too, but damned if I can do so with any modicum of confidence that it's a decent choice. How pathetic that 300 mill. peeps cannot offer up an honorable choice to lead.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "So that makes for like a four=way agree=ance. Can we agree=ance on that? all in favor....."

Aye!

Simon wrote: "Good points; I'm voting for local issues and reluctantly going to punch a Prez selection too, but damned if I can do so with any modicum of confidence that it's a decent choice. How pathetic that 3..."

Again, there was once Bernie Sanders. He's the right direction.

I liked the "Burn."

Will wrote: "Hey, let me throw this out there....who would you DRAFT for president? "

If I drafted someone? I dunno, I'd probably draft a Stone IPA. (how's that for a return to lite=heart'dness?]

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Will wrote: "Hey, let me throw this out there....who would you DRAFT for president? "

If I drafted someone? I dunno, I'd probably draft a Stone IPA. (how's that for a return to lite=heart'dness?]"

Damn Nathan beat me to that one

I'll go with Rye-on-Rye-on-Rye by Boulevard Brewing Company then.

Boulevard's Tank 7 is one of my standard go-tos - always up in the fridge. But lately my beer of choice has been Flying Dog's The Truth. 8.7% 80 IBU hoppy bliss!

Geoff wrote: "Boulevard's Tank 7 is one of my standard go-tos - always up in the fridge. But lately my beer of choice has been Flying Dog's The Truth. 8.7% 80 IBU hoppy bliss!"

Hey yeah. I was disappointed to learn they've discontinued their Double Wide. We were happy enough to stop by their beer hall this past summer ;; but disappointed they had no food and there was nowhere to stay nearby (everything booked and/or $$$). so we headed down the muggy road to Free State Brewing in Lawrence which was totally awesome! (the hotel sucked and the 2 mile walk was unbearably muggy).

Free State even had some Local Hops which made me totally geek=out!

Zizek would vote Trump.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4Ne...

howl of minerva wrote: "Zizek would vote Trump."

Not surprised. Just fingers crossed that it's not a replay of the German Communists' thinking the election of Hitler would lead to a true revolution.

He's sort of right of course and isn't saying anything much different from what Nader said back in the day of the primaries re: the Bernie=Trump phenomenon.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Boulevard's Tank 7 is one of my standard go-tos - always up in the fridge. But lately my beer of choice has been Flying Dog's The Truth. 8.7% 80 IBU hoppy bliss!"

Hey yeah. I was dis..."

There's a small brewery out here in MD called Milkhouse that's growing all the ingredients in house, on farm, including the hops, so there's actually some wet hopping going on, which is still a bit of a rarity.

howl of minerva wrote: "Zizek would vote Trump.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4Ne..."

Well then fuck Zizek!

Geoff wrote: "Well then fuck Zizek!"

Yeah, he lives off manufactured paradoxes, counterintuitive statements, etc; sometimes they're very interesting, but often forced. In politics the chief imperative shouldn't be to say something interesting. The truth is often very obvious and kind of boring. There's really nothing to be said in favor of a Trump presidency.

Geoff wrote: "Well then fuck Zizek! !"

The bastard does have a point though!

(I say this as I'm reading his Trouble in Paradise and just loving it... Zizek, you're cool with me you bearded weirdo.)

Jibran wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Well then fuck Zizek! !"

The bastard does have a point though!"

And didn't he make it clear how dangerous a trump=presidency would be? I mean, we already know how dangerous (another) Clinton presidency will be. Truth is both parties need to recover themselves from now decades of being shit. The Dems couldn't whip W's ass back in '01?!! That's just scandalous.

[and for you looking for hope ; don't forget how much Bernie showed how the landscape could be changed. I was expecting 5% at best from him, like with Nader. ]

Oh as per a conversation earlier in this thread : if you were rooting for Walter White while watching Breaking Bad you're a dick.

Geoff wrote: "Oh as per a conversation earlier in this thread : if you were rooting for Walter White while watching Breaking Bad you're a dick."

God no. I was sick of him already when he played the dad on malcom in the middle.

Exactly - Bernie gave me those oh so needed glimmers of hope I only generally find in good books, synthesizer compositions, and strong beers.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Oh as per a conversation earlier in this thread : if you were rooting for Walter White while watching Breaking Bad you're a dick."

God no. I was sick of him already when he played th..."

Ha! Yep

Will wrote: "'Nothing lasts forever, even cold November rain.'"

Oh screw you now I'll be watching the trilogy all day on YouTube - "don't you cryyyeyeyeyeeiiieieiieeyyyy!!!"

Will wrote: "'Nothing lasts forever, even cold November rain.' ."

And but now it's Not In This Lifetime.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/vide...

But what's really strange is that he was good with AC/DC.

Ok, so, re: The Bern. Nathan I think equally important as the momentum Bernie got was the effort the Democratic Party put into quelling the insurrection. It's made me wonder at the efficacy of landscape change within the party. How entrenched is the machine? After the primary was over, the Democratic Party made it clear where they stood when they rewrote the platform and made sure to leave out the good stuff.

ATJG wrote: "Ok, so, re: The Bern. Nathan I think equally important as the momentum Bernie got was the effort the Democratic Party put into quelling the insurrection. It's made me wonder at the efficacy of land..."

I mean yes, that's one entrenched motherfucking machine. Is why I don't believe in politics - I believe in making sweet sweet love.

ATJG wrote: "Ok, so, re: The Bern. Nathan I think equally important as the momentum Bernie got was the effort the Democratic Party put into quelling the insurrection. It's made me wonder at the efficacy of land..."

Oh no I'm totally with you. I don't hold out hope for the Dem's. The US needs a third party. We've never had anything like a strong labor oriented party except for some stuff waaaay back in the day. And frankly, as long as union membership rates are down in the single digits, I hold no real hope for the US. Occupy happened, but they and the Bern supporters need to build some real and lasting institutions. Takes time and lot of finger crossing.

Just to pop by quickly as a break from work - I would just like to say that, while I am critical of Hilary for many things, I do think there is a tendency to forget the entire arc of her career and many of the excellent things she has done - particularly her work for children and the disadvantaged since her days at law school. I think that having run against Obama and then Bernie, we have been exposed to a lot of "attack" against her for a long time now, which I think may explain some of the negativity with which she is viewed by the left. My view on her remains that she is incredibly smart, fundamentally decent and understands how politics works (with all the moral grey areas being a politician entails). I might disagree with her on lots of things (but then what politician do I ever agree fully with?) but the view that she is some sort of demonic hell-cat is just silly.

Jonathan wrote: "Just to pop by quickly as a break from work - I would just like to say that, while I am critical of Hilary for many things, I do think there is a tendency to forget the entire arc of her career and..."

Yes but she is status quo. And we are here to fuck up the status quo.

Geoff wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Just to pop by quickly as a break from work - I would just like to say that, while I am critical of Hilary for many things, I do think there is a tendency to forget the entire arc ..."

Can we do that when there is not the chance that Trump will be elected please?

Nathan "And didn't he make it clear how dangerous a trump=presidency would be? I mean, we already know how dangerous (another) Clinton presidency will be. Truth is both parties need to recover themselves from now decades of being shit."

Clinton's presidency means another four-years-long lifeline to the status quo and further build-up to the public disillusionment at the end of which we might see a new Trump factor, but this time much more ferocious and dangerous than Donald. Trump may - just may - give American the opportunity for some soul-searching. Not that the guy is capable of achieving anything, but someone at some time will need to step in to seriously address the issues that legitimize something like Trump. It's gonna be a tough ride either way. I know, very speculative of me, but can the system fix itself with a traditional establishment president? I doubt it.

Jibran man, you ain't gonna have to live with the man as your president - that kinda soul searching is not what we need.

Just on the basic level of civil rights, the man cannot become our president.

Jibran wrote: "Clinton's presidency means another four-years-long lifeline to the status quo and further build-up to the public disillusionment ... I know, very speculative of me, but can the system fix itself with a traditional establishment president? I doubt it. ."
Well, I've been hearing stuff like this in several places for a while now, but often as not about other countries too, not just the US, what with cracks in the EU re immigration policy and the Euro. For plenty of people, and especially the more fragile, it's appealing to have it delayed for a while. The socioeconomic and environmental conditions aren't great for a substantive long lasting fix such as a new New Deal (automation could soon eat up a lot of the jobs created) although something like that would be a pleasant delay.

Halloween was last month. He isn't going to win.

Hm, and look who's picking up the story. Now I'm actually kind of pissed

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitb...

Zizek is trying to have it both ways. On the one hand he's saying liberals are overreacting, Trump wouldn't really be a catastrophe, Trump doesn't actually represent a return to fascism, etc; on the other hand, yes, Trump would be catastrophic, and that's exactly what the political system needs right now, a total catastrophe.

Slavoj Žižek is on breitbart.com supporting Trump. My first thought was that I must be dreaming, but then I remembered where he was from. Good grief... those Slovenians certainly stick together, don't they?

It seems Clinton has a safe lead, in polls. But could the polls get it wrong, like the Brexit?

Clinton's lead is not safe. It is within polling error, according to fivethirtyeight.com's usually very reliable modelling.

I see. So we're in for a neck-to-neck? If not xenophobia and bigotry, I thought multiple sexual harassment claims against Trump would destroy his chances but I guess the issue isn't as sensitive with the voters as it's with the newspapers.

Some excellent work over the last couple of weeks from Putin's WikiLeaks subsidiary. The person responsible should be in line for a Hero of the Soviet Union First Class, or whatever it's called these days.

Manny wrote: "The person responsible should be in line for a Hero of the Soviet Union First Class, or whatever it's called the..."

Hero of the War and Peace award?

I'm working on improving my Russian at the moment. You never know when it might come in handy.