Geoff > Status Update

I imagine Wastrel walking down the street on a pleasant day, witnessing a train derailment, seeing all the people chewed up, screaming and burning, then mentally citing some statistics about the frequency of train derailments, how many people generally survive, are injured, or killed, and deciding that that train derailment is only slightly worse than average, so he walks off whistling Ravel or something and grabs a baguette sandwich at the local deli.

BWAHAHA Trump is apparently this very moment screening Finding Dory in the White House theater.

Geoff wrote: "I imagine Wastrel walking down the street on a pleasant day, witnessing a train derailment, seeing all the people chewed up, screaming and burning, then mentally citing some statistics about the fr..."

Hey now, the part about walking away whistling is a bit harsh. I see him helping with the releief effort while explaining where the wreckage fits on a statistical curve.

Much love, Wastrel : )

David wrote: "Much love, Wastrel : )"

Yeah that was probably harsh. Apologies. I really do appreciate your input on this thread. You obviously know a great deal more about this than I do. Hope I didn't piss you off...

Geoff, I blame the philosophical training. You see what happens when you encourage people to be analytical and dispassionate?

Geoff wrote: "BWAHAHA Trump is apparently this very moment screening Finding Dory in the White House theater."

he's probably got the TV set on cartoon network every morning.

Also, I'm probably a little rough around the edges, and like any flawed human, I want my fears and thoughts validated rather than contradicted - but that is no way to live or grow. So yeah, apologies. But I really believe Bannon is a terrible human being, and Breitbart has done horrible things to our national dialog, so anything that looks slightly like justification of his new powerful position in the direction of my country moving forward I bristle at - when I should probably pause and think more. Sorry, Wastrel.

Manny wrote: "Geoff, I blame the philosophical training. You see what happens when you encourage people to be analytical and dispassionate?"

Praxis, brother. Praxis. Political philosophy don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

W's comments are usually too long for my ruined attention span. I should probably take meds or something.

howl of minerva wrote: "W's comments are usually too long for my ruined attention span. I should probably take meds or something."

(I admit I skim sometimes too...)

Virgil didn't burn the Aeneid for the sake of shallow sound bites. No compromise with #TwitterCulture.

Honestly, GR updates aren't always my highest priority. But I do value what Wastrel contributes here. He clearly knows his stuff and has a wonderfully analytic mind. But I am a man of passion! And therefore wrong more often...

howl of minerva wrote: "W's comments are usually too long for my ruined attention span. I should probably take meds or something."

And here's me trying to edit down my comments to fit the hectic pace of GR...

Geoff: no worries. I just hope I don't irritate you too much by being reasonable.

Regarding the train crash analogy: well, I'd naturally see it from the other direction. Imagine you're walking down the street, and come to a large plaza area where people are milling about. There is, for reasons that we won't worry about exploring right now, a number of trees in this plaza. You see a small fire in the middle of the plaza.
Do you a) shout "fire! fire! it's the biggest fire we've ever seen, it's going to consume the entire plaza and kill us all! run! run for your lives!";
or b) point out calmly to people that there is a fire, prepare to run if necessary, and cautiously continue to observe the fire for signs of expansion while going about your business.

[in this model, of course, the fire cannot actually be put out by anybody for another two years, and all you can do in the meantime is remind people that they really should put out the fire when they get the chance. (there may also be opportunities to hand out icepacks to people who have suffered burns)]

I tend toward b). Because having everybody running for their lives for two years just gets in the way of a rational, pragmatic response, and also risks a stampede that may hurt or kill people. [whether that's violent rioting, or increasing suicides. Those aren't abstract fears, either. I actually know someone we were really worried about back in November, because he got caught up in this sort of "Trump is a new Hitler!" hysteria. Making people frightened and depressed can sometimes be politically useful, but it has a real cost in human lives.] All that running about may also serve to fan the flames and help them spread...
...and if you speak calmly now, you won't be too hoarse to shout two years from now when the fire brigade arrive, and people might listen to your voice more attentively when it really matters if you haven't been yelling 'fire!' the whole time.

Read that above Jacobin article; the will to stop Trump from implementing his campaign promises (i.e., basically ruling as a fascist) is already creating maybe the biggest mass movement this country has ever seen. So I'm a voluntarist. Overreact, or rather, act preemptively. Yell fire.

On Bannon: oh, I agree he's not someone I want in NSC meetings. But I think that, as it were, came in the original package you got when you got Trump. "And now Bannon has power and influence!" in January is kind of like "and now it turns out Trump doesn't like Muslims! This is getting worse and worse!" - it's bad, but it's an old bad.

Partly, it's a very old bad. I'd much rather the NSC had much less power, the State Department had much more power, and posts like National Security Advisor were subject to confirmation. But, stables, doors...

Looking on the bright side, Bannon's not an appalling person to have in security briefings. He's a former Pentagon official (special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations) with a Masters in National Security Studies (from Georgetown). So he's got some idea about the subject - more than a lot of people who have attended NSC meetings, I think. And he got his MBA from Harvard Business School, and he worked for a fair while at Goldman Sachs. He may be evil, but he's not an idiot. And while evil may be bad in domestic policy, and long-term foreign policy, I'd prefer evil to stupid when it comes to a crisis. Evil normally has some sense of self-preservation...

[more worrying is the thought that the joint chiefs and the intelligence chief may not be there. But we've no way of knowing, yet, whether they will actually be absent now, or whether it's just a bureaucratic thing and they'll be there 99% of the time but it'll now be legal to have minor NSC meetings without everyone being present when they don't need to be. We don't know yet.]

David wrote: "Read that above Jacobin article; the will to stop Trump from implementing his campaign promises (i.e., basically ruling as a fascist) is already creating maybe the biggest mass movement this countr..."

It's still a tiny mass movement, and mass movements do not accomplish anything. A mass movement is valuable if and only if the number of your side it inspires to turn up at the polls in two years (who wouldn't otherwise have turned up) is bigger than the number of their side it inspires to turn up (who wouldn't otherwise have turned up). And mass movements founded on fearmongering and hatred run a very great risk of inspiring more opponents than supporters. And they also, as I mentioned above, cost lives.

If these marches can be quickly transformed into the basis for serious recruitment for the Democratic Party via improved community organising, then they could be positive. But if they only become some sort of larger Occupy movement, divorced from practical politics - or, worse, if they infect the Party with extremism and purity testing - then they will only serve to delegitimise genuine concerns in the eyes of the moderate voters in whose fickle hands the fate of the country (and the world) rests.

Strongly disagree. The wealth of our species desperately needs to be redistributed. The momentum of the anti-Trump movement has the real possibility of carrying us to the point of socialism.

Wastrel wrote: "But if they only become some sort of larger Occupy movement,

If you want to use Occupy as an example, use it as an example of what got Bernie almost into the White House. And he would've been there today if the Dem machinery had gotten behind him. I mean, you almost had me until that post you made right there. Without mass movements the Dems can't do squat.

I don't fear this mass movement. I fear the stuff in the white house.

Wastrel wrote: "mass movements founded on fearmongering and hatred"

Seriously. What?

I knew not paying attention would pay off.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Wastrel wrote: "mass movements founded on fearmongering and hatred"

Seriously. What?"

I'd like an explanation of that too.

'It's the mercy of god that unites us'

That's not hateful.

(True, I may have also said something about expropriating the expropriators, but that's not directed personally at anyone. It can even be carried out peacefully, if we get our act together.)

David wrote: "'It's the mercy of god that unites us'

Amen.

This does rather remind me though, of an excellent passage in Yuval Harari's history of mankind that i just had to re-look up. (Tl;dr: the mercy of God divides us).

All those involved accepted Christ's divinity and His gospel of compassion and love. However, they disagreed about the nature of this love. Protestants believed that the divine love is so great that God was incarnated in flesh and allowed Himself to be tortured and crucified, thereby redeeming the original sin and opening the gates of heaven to all those who professed faith in Him. Catholics maintained that faith... was not enough. To enter heaven, believers had to participate in church rituals and do good deeds. Protestants refused to accept this, arguing that this quid pro quo belittles God's greatness and love...

"These theological disputes turned so violent that during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, Catholics and Protestants killed each other by the hundreds of thousands. On 23 August 1572, French Catholics who stressed the importance of good deeds attacked communities of French Protestants who highlighted God's love for humankind. In this attack, the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre, between 5,000 and 10,000 Protestants were slaughtered in less than twenty-four hours. When the pope in Rome heard the news from France, he was so overcome by joy that he organised festive prayers to celebrate the occasion and commissioned Giorgio Vasari to decorate one of the Vatican's rooms with a fresco of the massacre (the room is currently off-limits to visitors). More Christians were killed by fellow Christians in those twenty-four hours than by the polytheistic Roman Empire throughout its entire existence."

I don't know how to post images on goodreads but Vasari's fresco indeed captures something fundamental in human nature.

David wrote: "Strongly disagree. The wealth of our species desperately needs to be redistributed. The momentum of the anti-Trump movement has the real possibility of carrying us to the point of socialism."

That would be nice!

And... just as i wrote that, it seems there's been a shooting in a mosque in Quebec city. Here i was thinking things are a little better north of the border. Fuck...

Ah shit. I love Quebec. Thoughts are with you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thea...

When it comes to the Atlantic, I think I actually prefer their conservatives to their liberals.

Not sure about the last part though. I'm not counting on senators or other other officials to ever stand up to him. Let it be a revolt of the masses.

I need to pay a non-refundable deposit to the tune of USD 500 in a week or so for my planned trip to the US later this spring. I'm not sure if I should do that. Pakistan is not on the list of banned countries but it is possible that the ban would be widened in the next 90 days. Or there might be a de facto ban that wouldn't make headlines. Nothing stops Trump from issuing directives to consular officials to drastically reduce the number of visas issued to the citizens of "bad" countries. I'd hate to spend all that money, make all travel arrangements etc only to find out that I'm barred entry.

I also don't want to be interrogated like a criminal on US ports of entry and detained for hours or overnight while they look for incriminating evidence. Nor do I want the so-called "extreme vetting" where officials come knocking at my door and go to my workplace and seek polce reports or any such thing. I'd probably put up with all that if I were immigrating, but it's just a fucking two-weeks long visit.

The trip isn't necessary. My life doesn't depend on it. So that's okay. It was half-leisure, half-business. I guess I'll take my business elsewhere and seek leisure in the emerald waters of Southeast Asia. I hear they have great food and it's cheap.

An Iranian friend with greencard and family in the US is visiting his parents in Iran. Now he is stuck there and doesn't know what's happening. Despite court challenge he's unable to leave. Iranian authorities are refusing to let him board the plane anyway. He'd lose his job if he does not return soon. If his family leave the states they can't re-enter the country. That's just one case. Lives are being destroyed as we speak. If this is Trump's idea of fighting terrorism, I can only wish him luck because, in the end, none of this is going to work. His actions will make the world hate America more.

Rant over.

Oh my god, Jibran, I'm so sorry...

Please come visit in a few years when Keith Ellison is president : )

Jibran wrote: "I need to pay a non-refundable deposit to the tune of USD 500 in a week or so for my planned trip to the US later this spring. I'm not sure if I should do that. Pakistan is not on the list of banne..."



That is awful! I am so sorry. Trump is an first class imbecile. I can only hope that it is able to be stopped, and soon.

I think they are asking people for their opinion on Trump at the airport.

I'm tempted to apply for a visa just for a chance to yell: "I think he's a bigoted, xenophobic, lecherous, narcissistic racist!" in some official's face.

I'll be deported immediately after that, of course.

But I may not get a visa at all, if they are scanning FB posts as it is reported.

Jibran wrote: "I need to pay a non-refundable deposit to the tune of USD 500 in a week or so for my planned trip to the US later this spring. I'm not sure if I should do that. Pakistan is not on the list of banne..."

Whereas the Hindu fundamentalists in India wants to send all their critics to Pakistan - especially if they are Muslim. Even I have been called a Pakistan agent on FB.

I have decided to give the US as little of my money as possible while Trump is in power. So I will not visit the country, I will not submit any papers to American conferences, and when given a choice I will not buy American goods.

I am having trouble making up my mind about American movies. Hollywood is strongly criticizing Trump, and I like some American directors. We watched Paterson and Moonlight, which I thought were very good. But I'm starting to feel it's simplest to be consistent and avoid American altogether.

Honestly, people should start a BDS movement against the USA. I say that as an American. Our economy deserves to be wrecked and there deserves to be global pressure put on the gov't.

Manny wrote: "I have decided to give the US as little of my money as possible while Trump is in power. So I will not visit the country, I will not submit any papers to American conferences, and when given a choi..."

I am with you, Manny. But I will still promote the intellectual, liberal part of America, while shunning their business as far as possible.

Nandakishore wrote: "I am with you, Manny. But I will still promote the intellectual, liberal part of America, while shunning their business as far as possible."

Absolutely! I have many American friends. I know that more than half the country is appalled by what Trump is doing. I just think that the most constructive thing I can do here is to take my business elsewhere and help put economic pressure on the new government.

If a lot of people stopped buying iPhones and Fords, that would send a noticeable message. Trump's very interested in the balance of trade.

As far as I'm concerned, this isn't a govt. or an administration. Its a regime of walking memes who could potentially push the U.S. into dangerous territory.

These are the New Year resolutions I have taken, based on the very disturbing shifts to the right at home in India and abroad.

1. I will not spend time arguing politics with right-wingers. They are the living example of the admonition: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

2. I will become more active in politics - that is, social activism. Just one vote does not do much, especially in India, where in a parliamentary democracy with an FPTP system someone with 25-30% of the vote can get a sweeping majority. There are many societal ills which can be attacked outside of the system.

3. I will try to do my bit to attack the dismal state of education in India, a major source of her crippling poverty and capitalist exploitation. I don't know exactly how I will go about it - but there should be avenues.

Very small initiatives, yes - but it feels good to be doing something.

Manny wrote: "Nandakishore wrote: "I am with you, Manny. But I will still promote the intellectual, liberal part of America, while shunning their business as far as possible."

Absolutely! I have many American f..."

Though he doesn't know what the "balance of trade" means. He has commented that the balance of trade with Mexico could be used instead to build the wall. As if trade balance is somehow money that flows from one government to another? Shees!

Thanks guys. I was thinking that perhaps I could meetup with some of you fine people when I'm in the states, if possible. But I reckon that's not gonna happen soon.,,

Nandakishore wrote: "Whereas the Hindu fundamentalists in India wants to send all their critics to Pakistan - especially if they are Muslim. Even I have been called a Pakistan agent on FB."

I understand that well. I've been called worse, both online and IRL eg; alternately a RAW agent and a CIA mouthpiece by our breed of fundamentalists who can't tolerate a view different from theirs. I have been called 'son a of Jewish whore' (for refusing to be drawn into anti-Jewish vitriol and condemning it) and Hindu by heart (for having Brahmin roots & surname that works for both Hindus and Muslims) and whatnot. The list is long haha.

David wrote: "Oh my god, Jibran, I'm so sorry...

Please come visit in a few years when Keith Ellison is president : )"

Keith Ellison. My favorite Representative outside my own state (though he is from my original home state).

The man does Minnesota proud.

Jibran wrote: "Thanks guys. I was thinking that perhaps I could meetup with some of you fine people when I'm in the states, if possible. But I reckon that's not gonna happen"

Whereabouts in the states were you planning to be?

David wrote: Wereabouts in the states were you planning to be?

After a there-day conference in Chicago I'm free to go anywhere. Would have spent time with friends & relatives in DC and nearby. Wanted to visit california for a few days.

Jibran wrote: "After a there-day conference in Chicago "

Trump has a hotel in Chicago. According to tripadvisor.com it's number 20 out of 185 there (~2400 ratings). Someone should write a bot that downrates all of Trump's holdings worldwide.

Jibran, if you book in the Trump Hotel and tweet: "Going to US! Staying in President Trump's Hotel!! So excited!!!" you might even get diplomatic clearance.

Matt wrote: "Trump has a hotel in Chicago. According to tripadvisor.com it's number 20 out of 185 there (~2400 ratings). Someone should write a bot that downrates all of Trump's holdings worldwide."

Matt, I'm not sure a bot is required. I feel many people would be willing to take a few minutes to write a negative review of a Trump hotel on tripadviser, and the results would be better. That's a great idea.