Geoff > Status Update

Geoff wrote: "So, Woo, you figure I owe someone who supports someone who you yourself say is capable of initiating a nuclear holocaust, what, the benefit of the doubt? What are you saying here? Trump's probably ..."

Please don't do me the injustice of an assumptive paraphrase. It may matter within the bounds of your GR followers; but let's go the meta I have problems with; and pretend that this mutual diatribe has some real significance.

Matter of fact as I see it. Any national head with the technology has the ability to launch a nuke; and some of them have clearly demonstrated what some would consider an unbalanced head; that guy from North Korea has even managed to manifest that aspect; assuming the result was not an incompetent cut at the closest strip mall.

US Liberals would like to remove the US from that long list. Their folly in that area is to make hay of the Pollyanna thought that if we will act nice, so will the others. Wrong. This "plan" had more going for it, but not enough to be popular with any but the inbreds, when the US was THE power. It no longer holds that position; and has shown real signs of weakness in the now dominant financial area.

Global co-operation has been necessitated. From a US standpoint the most significant question becomes who negotiates in behalf of the US. ...................... Cut all the possibilities; much too broad. Is this going to be someone who feels attacked by those he supposedly represents or is he the one who seeks immortal greatness as he does his best to represent their interests?

One thing I can say for sure, is that there seems no possible benefit in reviling someone who has not yet been given the opportunity to do anything.

What do you mean he hasn't done anything? His cabinet appointments are utterly reviling, and very dangerous. He is proving to be attempting to implement exactly what he promised in his campaign. Which is roundly horrifying. Not to mention his life before this campaign was revolting in so many other ways. He was worthy of my ire and disrespect long before he became our president-elect.

Geoff wrote: "So, Woo, you figure I owe someone who supports someone who you yourself say is capable of initiating a nuclear holocaust, what, the benefit of the doubt? What are you saying here? Trump's probably ..."

On my part that was kind of a black joke. But sure the POTUS is capable of that as are a number of other nuts.

"What am I saying?" I really don't know. Not anything, really. In the current world environment it seems that we're finally in unchartered waters. In a historical perspective, it appears to me that this was what was sought; but now that's it's here everyone does the usual bit and says; "Oh no. I didn't want that."

This may be compelling until you've heard it for the fifth time.

This seems off topic; and more importantly on a personal level I'm completely losing interest. If they give me any shit that isn't some meta crap, do me a favor and drop a nuke on them. If they retaliate; oh fucking well.

Sorry for the pre-emptive strike here, Woo, but I got around to checking out your profile just now. You joined Goodreads yesterday, have only commented aggressively on threads, and have already started giving confrontational one-star reviews full of insults. To me, the sum of this equation = TROLL. So, you're blocked.

Not a surprise, Geoff, given the verbal diarrhea on display here. The guy starts off with "no pun intended" (I mean wow, so hilarious, right?) and manages to go downhill from there. You put up with the scattershot incoherence longer than I would have.

that liminal space between trolling and vigorous disagreement

I have trouble navigating this

but I do think your judgment is correct in this case, Geoff

David wrote: "that liminal space between trolling and vigorous disagreement

I have trouble navigating this

but I do think your judgment is correct in this case, Geoff"

Nobody looking for legitimate conversation or book recommendations does this their first day on GR. Nope.

Zizek has said he wouldn't want to live in a society in which it's necessary to make an argument against rape.

I'd prefer to frequent an internet where you don't have to argue that nuclear holocaust is a bad thing

David wrote: "Zizek has said he wouldn't want to live in a society in which it's necessary to make an argument against rape.

I'd prefer to frequent an internet where you don't have to argue that nuclear holocau..."

Concur.

So, in a complete non-sequitur: I like BITCHES BREW (obviously) and TRIBUTE TO JACK JOHNSON and HOT RATS but am struggling to find other Jazz-Fusion/Jazz-Rock I really dig. I find Mahavishnu unlistenable. Help me Geoff/others.

Actually this may be relevant to the original bomb shelter question.

howl of minerva wrote: "So, in a complete non-sequitur: I like BITCHES BREW (obviously) and TRIBUTE TO JACK JOHNSON and HOT RATS but am struggling to find other Jazz-Fusion/Jazz-Rock I really dig. I find Mahavishnu unlist..."

Well, this is quite the turn of subject. I've never been big on the fusion. I appreciate Miles' electric period, and yes Bitches Brew, the live recordings associated with that, such as Live-Evil. Check out In a Silent Way, that's good. But fusion itself never really appealed to me. A lot of it, to me at least, sounds too wishy-washy. I like funk, though. And I like the way artists like Sun Ra incorporated synthesizers and electronic instruments - but that was always toward abstraction, not fusion as its known. A lot of that stuff is kinda lame, IMO.

Okay, looked through my collection a bit - Herbie Hancock Head Hunters. That's good.

Like, Weather Report makes me gag.

Geoff wrote: "Like, Weather Report makes me gag."

Same. Yeah, I like some of the tracks off Head Hunters. Will def check out Silent Way and Live-Evil. (Great name!) Jazz-funk always sounds a bit 80s-porn to me but maybe I haven't been checking out the good stuff. (Porn-wise or jazz-wise).

Geoff wrote: "A lot of that stuff is kinda lame, IMO. "

OK, that might be one reason I can't find good Jazz-Fusion...

Yeah, you know, I dig jazz, and I dig electronic music, but I tend to like them separate. There never really was a good place, beyond Bitches Brew-esque material, where they really came together (for me at least). Again, if you want some recommendations on people doing more abstract stuff that verges on blending jazz and electronic, I can definitely serve that up. For instance, have you checked out Floating Points? Their last two releases have been phenomenal and bridge that span.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqoF8...

or Oren Ambarchi's Hubris record. I listen to that every day almost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8z53...

However, overall, I'd like to keep the tone of this thread vitriolic.

Geoff wrote: "However, overall, I'd like to keep the tone of this thread vitriolic."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEsjr...

"Jazz-funk always sounds a bit 80s-porn to me" --Howl

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Geoff wrote: "However, overall, I'd like to keep the tone of this thread vitriolic."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEsjr...

?"

Yes! Though not at all what Howl wants. But yes!

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEsjr...

At 2:14 AM Eastern Time, 600 million people googled "Throbbing Gristle" at once and Skynet became self-aware.

And I thought that with John McLaughlin, Yorkshire had exhausted its contribution to world music forever.

Geoff wrote: "Yeah, you know, I dig jazz, and I dig electronic music, but I tend to like them separate.

I'm yet to get into electronic. I don't really listen to anything more electronic than Radiohead. And I don't even mean the recent stuff... I hang my head in shame.

No pun intended. https://xkcd.com/559/

howl of minerva wrote: "So, in a complete non-sequitur: I like BITCHES BREW (obviously) and TRIBUTE TO JACK JOHNSON and HOT RATS but am struggling to find other Jazz-Fusion/Jazz-Rock I really dig. I find Mahavishnu unlist..."

Assume you've looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor... ?

I like most any kind of fusion music, which of course are all over the musical map.

Geoff wrote: "Nobody looking for legitimate conversation or book recommendations does this their first day on GR. Nope. "

Except one who just got banned from some other discussion forum and desperately needs a new outlet to troll a fresh audience.

Ted wrote: Assume you've looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor... ?


I haven't actually. It's a bit overwhelming. Thought some personalised suggestions might be better :)

howl of minerva wrote: "Ted wrote: Assume you've looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor... ?


I haven't actually. It's a bit overwhelming. Thought some personalised suggestions might be better :)"

Agree it is overwhelming. I think my own collection of stuff would be a bit weird for this group, but I'll offer a couple:

Martin Tillman, A Year in Zurich
The Skeletons - Positive Force (song)
Tom Vedvik & Martin Tillman, Amadeus on the Nile
anything by Anouar Brahem (or his Trio)
And for funk - anything by The Budos Band

After Nathan's suggestion i think the bar "weird for this group" was moved into another dimension. Thanks for the pointers!

Ok - so, re: Jazz fusion - because I a bass player I probably have more of this stuff than I should (Jaco makes Weather Report an essential for me..) so:

Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior
Weather Report - Heavy Weather
Billy Cobham - Spectrum
Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency
Pat Methany - Bright Size Life
Michel Sardaby - Gail
Funk Factory – S/T (Beastie Boys have sampled this album a few times)

Re: early stuff - try something from here: http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/...

So many cool suggestions. Which of these would you say is closest in flavour to Electric Miles or the Zappa of Hot Rats? That's the kind of rocky fusion that I seem to have enjoyed most so far.

Tony Williams is a killer drummer, but I so don't dig Lifetime. Billy Cobham - excellent, but I so don't dig Spectrum! Ugh, jazz fusion leaking into this thread kinda makes sense. Two things that make me retch - Trump and jazz fusion.

Haha. What would Trump play? Jazz funk guitar? A vibraphone made of the bones of his enemies (vibrabone)? You do like the 3 albums I originally mentioned right? I need internet-societal validation of my questionable taste.

howl of minerva wrote: "Haha. What would Trump play? Jazz funk guitar? A vibraphone made of the bones of his enemies (vibrabone)? You do like the 3 albums I originally mentioned right? I need internet-societal validation ..."

A Trumpet, obviously. One of the seven trumpets of the apocalypse.

So, uh, today the man about to take the oval office referred to himself as "the ratings machine DJT". Yep.

You guys have seen Idiocracy, right? President Camacho?

Geoff wrote: "
Ugh, jazz fusion leaking into this thread kinda makes sense. Two things that m..."

I have a very high tolerance for cheese..but agree that a lot of this stuff does nothing for me. All of those albums have a couple of tracks I like a lot, and many more I think either "meh" or "yuck". I can also excuse a great deal when there is some incredible technical skill on display

Jonathan wrote: " I can also excuse a great deal when there is some incredible technical skill on display"

I tend toward the reverse, I excuse a great deal when the musician has zero technical ability, if they communicate enough feeling or spirit. But high technical skill without feeling or spirit does nothing for me.

Geoff wrote: "President Camacho? "

Macho Camacho's Beat.

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Geoff wrote: "President Camacho? "

Macho Camacho's Beat."

I'd already shelved that, forgot about it, and now will go buy it.

Geoff wrote: "Jonathan wrote: " I can also excuse a great deal when there is some incredible technical skill on display"

I tend toward the reverse, I excuse a great deal when the musician has zero technical abi..."

I always think of that classic David Berman line : "All my favorite singers couldn't sing."

Geoff wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Jonathan wrote: " I can also excuse a great deal when there is some incredible technical skill on display"

I tend toward the reverse, I excuse a great deal when the musician has zero..."

Hmm..I certainly agree with you with many types of music but there is also something to be said for appreciating an extraordinary piece of drum technique in something by cobham, for example, that can make a piece for me. Also a good bit of funkiness will get you a long way...

Just out of curiosity - do you hate this? https://youtu.be/bN9Vaml0dZE

I used to play this in my old band, for example (I was a bit of a jaco obsessive back in the day, with my fretless bass etc)

https://youtu.be/Xn9IqOTIkD4

Hate is too strong a word. Maybe more just not up my alley. They are all performing their instruments quite well.

Geoff wrote: "Hate is too strong a word. Maybe more just not up my alley. They are all performing their instruments quite well."

Shit. The horrible events in Florida just made my taking of this thread on such an irreverent and irrelevant side-note just feel all the more unnecessary.

Oh and that intelligence report too.

Geoff wrote "I tend toward the reverse"

McLaughlin is technically an utter virtuoso on the guitar but most of the time I'd rather listen to the dishwasher than his stuff. Think I'd actually pay to not listen to the stuff he did with Al di Meola and Paco de Lucia. Triple virtuosity wankfest.

howl of minerva wrote: "Al di Meola "

Another great Italian.!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aumI...

I'm totally out of my range, so I'll quote wikip ::
"Frank Zappa said of McLaughlin: "A person would be a moron not to appreciate McLaughlin's technique. The guy has certainly found out how to operate a guitar as if it were a machine gun. But I'm not always enthusiastic about the lines I hear or the ways in which they're used. I don't think you can fault him, though, for the amount of time and effort it must have taken to play an instrument that fast. I think anybody who can play that fast is just wonderful. And I'm sure 90% of teenage America would agree, since the whole trend in the business has been 'faster is better'.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mc...

[all only because you guys already did me the favor of saying "Hot Rats"]

McL may have been a background to FZ's Cosmik Debris? I forget.

edit :: apparently Frank was right(?) ::
http://www.dallasobserver.com/music/q...

Speaking of jazz fusion, I heard about this album on a jazz podcast today. Sounded interesting.

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/03/1603801...

howl of minerva wrote: "Paco.."

Hey now - keep Paco out of this. The man was a frickin genius.
https://youtu.be/9UYjc75ZV6E

The speed and technique are all completely directed to, and subservient to, the emotional and musical content. There is no fret-wanking here at all.

But agree on McL. Don't think I have ever listened to anything much of his. Meola too.

Oh yeah, agree absolutely - when he was playing straight up flamenco. He actually hated playing with those 2 in the touring freakshow, as I understand.

Yes - especially when Meola pulls out his "pan-pipe" effect for his acoustic guitar, which may possibly be the most offensive thing I have ever heard.

MCL will always get a pass from me though for his playing on Silent Way and Bitches, which is just incredibly good (and controlled, subtle and appropriate - things he seemed to forget about later on)