The Year of Reading Proust discussion
This topic is about
Marcel Proust
Auxiliary Reading (w/Spoilers)
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Auxiliary Reading Chit-Chat
That is terrific info., Kalliope. Thank you.
Proustitute wrote: "I know this is the auxiliary thread, but with this week's reading—which I still haven't finished myself—brings architecture to the forefront. I see no reason why these images can't be placed in thi..."Ok, Sir.. I will move the graph.
Great recommendation, Phillida, and at a marvellous bargain price. Bowie's is one of my very favourite writers on Proust, and his book is wonderful.You might enjoy "The Magic Lantern of Marcel Proust" which you can find here: http://archive.org/details/magiclante...
It's quite short, and has a lot of intriguing points.
May I also welcome you to the group. So happy to hear you are on your fourth read! I find Mr. P's novel rewards with each re-read.
I love Bowie's book Proust Among the Stars. I just finished re-reading the essay on Morality. He explores various themes very thoroughly. I think it is a great companion to the Novel.
Let me see whether Proust Among the Stars is in our auxiliary read. If not, I'll put it in. Thanks, Cassian.
Yes, "Stars" is great. Well worth a read, but assumes readers are familiar with the content of the novel, as it is a thematic treatment. So, spoilers obviously abound.
Nick wrote: "Great recommendation, Phillida, and at a marvellous bargain price. Bowie's is one of my very favourite writers on Proust, and his book is wonderful.You might enjoy "The Magic Lantern of Marcel P..."
Thank you for this Nick. I just downloaded it. Does it contain spoilers?
Yes it does, it has a very big spoiler, or rather, "reveal" in the first few pages of "The Gardens" and it is the entire thrust of Moss's argument for that chapter and the book, I think (from memory). I know you know about some "spoilers" having read Carter too, so you probably know the big stuff, but there's still little ones in the text which are nice to discover on one's own I think.I think most critical texts will have spoilers, really, unless they are more biographical or treating the text (its genesis, assembly or features) as object of study.
EDIT: I suppose it is not really a spoiler, now I think about it. Most "spoilers" people think of and hate having revealed are "twists", the big plot devices and surprises. This is more of a natural event in the book. To me it forms one of the highest moments of the book, and is very very important for Proust and the reader.
The content of the spoiler described in here:(view spoiler)
Nick wrote: "Yes it does, it has a very big spoiler, or rather, "reveal" in the first few pages of "The Gardens" and it is the entire thrust of Moss's argument for that chapter and the book, I think (from memor..."Well, I am reading Carter's Proustian Quest, and although I am not registering the twists, it has substantial spoilers, although some of them I could already suspect from the biography. But will also wait on that one. So frustrating...!!!... I think the next side reading after I finish the Carter will be Bachelard, which seems more generic.
Thank you.
I can understand the frustration :¬/ But! I think the novel itself will enchant you enough to make you forget about a lot of secondary stuff for a while!
Yes, Proustian Quest contains significant spoilers, so I wouldn't recommend it for people who don't like spoilers. For me, it depends on what type of novel I'm reading. If it's a one dimensional novel in which everything depends on that surprise, then I don't want spoilers. If it's a rich novel like ISOLT, then spoilers don't affect me, since there are so many more "internal" surprises for me to think about.
@Nick and @AlohaYou are completely right.. once I sit down with the novel, everything else shuts up. The novel is so very rich, that it is not just a turn in the plot that holds one's interest.
Nonetheless, after the Proustian Quest, I will move on to Bachelard and leave all the other studies for later in the year.
Good idea, Kalliope. I highly recommend Bachelard as one of the first auxiliary reads, since it helps you to intuitively "get" Proust.
Yes. I'm enjoying reading it at this more leisurely speed, too. One does get so much more out of it.
Just finished reading Céleste Albaret's 'Monsieur Proust'. Great experience. A wonderfully vivid and sensitive picture of the years she spent with Proust, his great wit and overall of the Proust household. A very interesting portrait of Gide too!
My copy not only came in late, but in French, unlike the seller's description! I'd rather reserve my French study time for the Proust text. I'm returning it for the English version.
Dipanjan wrote: "Just finished reading Céleste Albaret's 'Monsieur Proust'. Great experience. A wonderfully vivid and sensitive picture of the years she spent with Proust, his great wit and overall of the Proust ho..."I would be interested on the description on Gide... Will probably read it later on.
I really like Gabriel Josipovici and he has an interesting article about Proust in his The World And The Book: A Study Of Modern Fiction. Just in case someone is interested.
Markku wrote: "I really like Gabriel Josipovici and he has an interesting article about Proust in his The World And The Book: A Study Of Modern Fiction. Just in case someone is interested."Thank you, it looks interesting. Will check how expensive it is.
I found this book other book that may interest those who want to trace the structure in La recherche.A bit pricey, but in this link you can look at the table of contents and it may be available is some libraries.
http://www.amazon.com/Marcel-Proust-c...
Thank you, [[book:The World And The Book|3001388]] looks interesting. Will check how expensive it is.
Quite expensive, considering that there's only one essay on Proust. Anyone interested should know that the only thing the later editions add are new forewords.
The text has been published in the Critical Quarterly (2/1971) and can be found here, but it is behind a paywall. Unfortunately I don't have access.
Quite expensive, considering that there's only one essay on Proust. Anyone interested should know that the only thing the later editions add are new forewords.
The text has been published in the Critical Quarterly (2/1971) and can be found here, but it is behind a paywall. Unfortunately I don't have access.
Proustitute wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "I found this book other book that may interestA bit pricey, but in this link you can look at the table of contents and it ..."
I added it to the Auxiliary-texts Bookshelf.
Proustitute wrote: "Merci."We also added this one, which supports your suggestion of reading Ruskin as preliminary text... which I mention in a comment below the book.
www.goodreads.com/book/show/3130500-p...
Markku wrote: "The text has been published in the Critical Quarterly (2/1971) and can be found here, but it is behind a paywall. Unfortunately I don't have access."
Thanks for the link, Markku! I've added it to our references list here: http://www.mendeley.com/groups/247648...
Josipovici is so enjoyable to read - more than can be said for many critics! - and so illuminating.
Thanks for the link, Markku! I've added it to our references list here: http://www.mendeley.com/groups/247648...
Josipovici is so enjoyable to read - more than can be said for many critics! - and so illuminating.
Nick wrote: "A big list o'books would be good!"You mean in addition to the Group's Bookshelf?.. They are tagged as Primary-, Preliminary- and Auxiliary-
We have a total of 53 books listed in that Shelf.
Yes I saw our shelf, but some I would think of as interesting are not there. Don't want to step on toes though if someone is our group librarian!
Nick wrote: "Yes I saw our shelf, but some I would think of as interesting are not there. Don't want to step on toes though if someone is our group librarian!"Feel free to suggest books and the mods will list them.
Proustitute wrote: "Joshua, can you create a thread with your Mendeley resource list linked and - if it's possible to do so - set the thread to have no comments?
It would be good to have that somewhere prominent wher..."
Great idea, P. Done, and stickied. I've turned comments off, although I'm wondering how people are going to suggest more references to add? Comments would be a way they could do so. Alternatively, it is actually a public or 'crowd-sourced' list, so people can add references directly to it. But then they would need to register at Mendeley. So I'm still in two minds...
It would be good to have that somewhere prominent wher..."
Great idea, P. Done, and stickied. I've turned comments off, although I'm wondering how people are going to suggest more references to add? Comments would be a way they could do so. Alternatively, it is actually a public or 'crowd-sourced' list, so people can add references directly to it. But then they would need to register at Mendeley. So I'm still in two minds...
I like that: Captain Auxiliary :)
I reckon I'll leave comments off for a while. If anyone wants them back on, let me know.
I reckon I'll leave comments off for a while. If anyone wants them back on, let me know.
Nick, did you get John Porter Houston's The Shape & Style of Proust's Novel; I did, thanks for the recommendation. Chap 3, Verbal Texture, is a discussion of his rhetoric, syntax, etc; it interests me. Might you know of other authors or books which cover similar topics?
Hi Eugene, yes I have that one. I will have to have a think what might be similar. A handy tip is, that you can look in the back of your Bales (Cambridge Companion) for the bibliography and see if anything takes your fancy! It is not exhaustive, but it is well chosen IMO.
Nick wrote: "Hi Eugene, yes I have that one. I will have to have a think what might be similar. A handy tip is, that you can look in the back of your Bales (Cambridge Companion) for the bibliography and see if ..."Is the Porter Houston good then?
Eugene wrote: "Nick, did you get John Porter Houston's The Shape & Style of Proust's Novel; I did, thanks for the recommendation. Chap 3, Verbal Texture, is a discussion of his rhetoric, syntax, etc; it interests..."I have ordered it.
Good stuff, Kalliope. I hope you enjoy it.
Celeste Albaret tells us somethng so wonderful about Marcel...seeing that she was not a reader, he began to give her some books. Not Mallarme, not Baudelaire, etc. He gave her The Three Musketeers (which she loved); I thought that was so insightful. So many intellectuals want to push waders into the deep end right off.
Someone in a thread, perhaps in another discussion, mentioned the "nesting of voices". What does NOV refer to, from where does it come, etc? Along with ISOLT, I'm reading Joshua Landry's The Texture of Proust's Novel in Bales' Cambridge Companion to Proust and Landry mentions "multiple sequential narrators" but these are not sequential. I like to think of Proust's narrators as different layers of self or really different layers of time each speaking in it's own voice; we often see different 'layers' of "I" in the same paragraph & sometimes in the same sentence using the multiform French past tenses which English doesn't have.
'Layers' seems to mimic Proust's writing/re-writing method.
Kalliope: Houston is good.
Nick: Genette's Figures III is translated into Narrative Discourse: An Essay in Method according to Bales & Houston mentions Genette's discussion of "achronies" of Proust's style in the book.
Landry's is a good point. Perhaps that is what is meant by nesting of voices, the multiplicity of the narrative voice in time. I will have to go back and see who said that, I seem to recall it was Proustitute, but might be wrong.I think I messaged you with the Genette, Eugene, but I recommended Figures as I assumed you prefer to read in French :)
Yes you did Nick, recommend Figures III to me, thank you.Landry's flippant tone is refreshing; so many works about Proust are reverent, if not pious; they put you to sleep in the pew as the preacher drones on.
The Genette book is excellent. Especially if one writes fiction oneself. I've just realised there's no thread for it in here: I'll make one now.
Another great resource: "Proust's Way" by Roger Shattuck. I've found it very helpful and increcredibly insightful.
Elizabeth wrote: "Another great resource: "Proust's Way" by Roger Shattuck. I've found it very helpful and increcredibly insightful."Yes, thank you Elizabeth. The Shattuck is in the Auxiliary Library of the Group.
The thread for Narrative Discourse: An Essay in Method is here:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
Great Joshua, thank you. I have Figures III & await the translation to read back & forth.
@Proustitute I was rereading Joshua Landy, The Texture of Proust's Novel, about sentences in The Cambridge Companion to Proust, Ed. Richard Bales, which luckily Nick recommended to me, but thumbing through it I found Diane R. Leonard's Ruskin & the Cathedral of Lost Souls. You've probably read Leonard but if you haven't put it on your reading list. The"figural" readings of Amiens, their impressions, a resurrection, remembrance...both Ruskin & Proust.
Re spoilers. I try to avoid them, but having read all of Proust over and over and over...it's hard. I want to mention this: the Judge Dee books. There are about a dozen, re-written by Robert van Gulik (say Hoo-lik), a dutchman who grew up in China. The Judge Dee books are mysteries based on the life of Di Jien-Je (sic), a 16th century Chinese Magistrate (a real person). Anyway, here's my point. Van Gulik had to change one major thing when he retold these stories. In a Chinese murder myster, the whodunnit part is on the first page.
I received the Houston book yesterday. Looks very good. Old library copy in good state.
Kalliope wrote: I received the Houston book yesterday. Looks very good.From a reference in the Houston book, I bought & today received Yvette Louria's La Convergence Stylistique Chez Proust, 1957, edition Droz & Minard with the pages still uncut but signed by the author with a note in English in her hand.
The Year of Reading Proust
Books mentioned in this topic
Narrative Discourse Revisited (other topics)Narrative Discourse: An Essay in Method (other topics)
The world and the book: A study of modern fiction (other topics)
Proust Among the Stars (other topics)
The Proustian Quest (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Gabriel Josipovici (other topics)Jacques-Henri Lartigue (other topics)
Anna Kavan (other topics)
I belie..."
Thanks for this link.. I have to read Ruskin's Stones of Venice.
I also think that it is the structure of Gothic buildings, --the way the very high vaults can be sustained by a whole system of ribs that spread out the weight and distribute it to another system of buttresses (mostly flying buttresses), which eventually hold up the whole edifice--, that is key to understanding what Proust saw in cathedrals: a guide to build up his work structurally. An inner grid of themes, without which the whole thing would fall apart, connects all sections.
Here is a graph on the ribs from the vaults and the flying buttresses.