Discuss Pride & Prejudice 2009: Intro to discussion

[Jan]

I would rate the clergymen bachelors in order as follows:
1. Tinley
2. Ferrars
3. Collins
4. Bertram
5. Elton

I know, everyone is thinking Mr. Collins there!
While he was willing to write off his cousin completely, Bertram disowns his own sister.

[Jan]

For what it is worth. which is not much, professions were generally left to second sons. The honorable professions were military officer, the church, attorney. Did I miss any? So maybe don #2 could not inherit much of antrhing.

[Jan]

anything.

[Beth-In-UK]

It was certainly possible to be a 'landed clergyman' so to speak, and in Victorian times they were known as 'squarsons' (squire plus parson).

Do say if you find out any more about whether you could have a title and be a clergyman?

I know you can have 'disparate' titles, for example, like Professor Robert Lord Winstone (ie, he's a professor and a baron). Or like Colonel Sir John Twizzle (I made that up!)

There must be a ruling on it somewhere 'out there'!

[Beth-In-UK]

If it's possible, perhaps Edmund would have become something like

'The Reverend Sir Edmund Bertram'????

And addressed as Sir Edmund (as, I believe, an ordinary clergyman, eg, vicar/rector, was just addressed as 'Mr', like Mr Elton, though these days you can just address them as 'Vicar' or 'Rector'....as in 'More tea, Vicar?' etc. I don't think you ever call them Reverend though, do you? Not even 'Rev'!!!!)

And what on earth would happen if a Bishop inherited a peerage? As a Bishop they are one of the Lords Spiritual in the House of Lords, but then as a peer he'd be one of the Lords Temporal???

Clerical titles get very confusing to my mind!!!

[Jan]

I think clerical titles are somewhat less confusing in the US. No peerage in the mix. Established denominations have their own standard titles which can vary by denomination. For the nondenominational Church of What's Happening Now, where the clergy do not have a formal seminary and establish their own Church, all bets are off and you have to ask.

[Beth-In-UK]

They are definitely very confusing here in the UK! The Anglican (ie, state/official) church has its own rules (though I don't know much about thm!) (They are covered in Debrett's Correct Form), and the RCs have their own rules from Rome.

But the non-conformists/dissenters can make up their own rules.

You also get variations/customisation so to speak - for example, an Anglican vicar who is 'High Church' ('Anglo-Catholic', ie, keen on rituals and so on, ie, more 'catholic' in presentation), may well prefer to be addressed as 'Father', as if he were a Catholic priest. But this may depend on the predeliction of his particular bishop.

As ever, the Anglican church is a 'broad' church, so there is a spectrum from High Church Anglo-Catholics right across to Low-Church Evangelicals, and then a lot in between as well!!!

One term, though, I don't think I've ever heard over here, used by any of the UK based denominations is 'Pastor', though that may be changing in some of the 'independent' churches/non-conformists??

The whole non-conformist scene is extremely varied, and any comprehensive definition would take some time to list them all I think - let alone the differences between them!!!!!!

But, the nice thing is, believers can 'pick and choose' and there is probably something for everyone, which is good. :)

[Jan]

P & P is being discussed this month in the Everyone Has Read This But Me book Club