Emma
discussion
Am I the only one
message 1:
by
Nicole D.
(new)
-
rated it 3 stars
Aug 04, 2012 05:57AM
Emma is my least favorite Austen(I still liked it but not a 5 star book by far).Emma is such a spoiled brat and Knightly well he just isn't swoon worthy to me.Am I alone in this or do other people think Emma is a spoiled brat and Knightly too perfect?I think she is an ok character but nothing to Fanny Price and Elizabeth Bennet.Is it just me?
reply
|
flag
I don't think Knightly is perfect and Emma,she is spoiled.Anyway I could never judge Jane Austen's books.She's just too perfect.And btw Fanny Price - i never really liked her,i don't know why.she looks so old,sick and tired of life.She's not one of my favourite characters.
Emma is surely spoiled. But Knightly has something that reminds me of Darcy. As for Fanny Price I would definately say that she is my least favourite character in a Jane Austen book. I really can't understand her. She seems to compromise.
Nicole wrote: "Emma is my least favorite Austen(I still liked it but not a 5 star book by far).Emma is such a spoiled brat and Knightly well he just isn't swoon worthy to me.Am I alone in this or do other people ..."There are some funny scenes in Emma but I agree with you that the heroine is not easy to admire. mHowever, she is not meant to be admired. Like all the heroines of Jane Austen's novels, she has to undergo a learning process. Incidentally, this is something I find a little tedious about all her novels-the school mistress "what we learn from this" aspect fo her work.
I agree with Esdaile, Emma isn't meant to be admired. She needs to grow and learn and Knightly is there through it all. Emma is my second favorite and have read the book several times and watched several versions of the movie. She is more human, where she makes mistakes and has to own up to them and in the end she gets the guy. :) Think of the time period, her status, along with being in a small town with little to do. I think it's a great story of watching a girl turn into a woman.
When reading Emma, you are reading a comedy. You can't take Emma seriously, as she takes herself and her attempts at matchmaking. She doesn't know the first thing about love and yet she is meddling in everyone's affairs. She is spoiled, but by no fault of her own, just her father's love, which can't bear the separation of his daughters. There are good points about her, which Knightly hopes to shape in her and she takes his criticism to heart, even feeling shame. I think that we are reading about a girl, who is not yet a woman, but thinks herself one, and we see how she stumbles into growing up instead of walking there gracefully. No one can compare to Elizabeth Bennet, who was flawed too, and more witty than funny. I personally love Emma and I prefer her to Fanny Price, who was too saintly to be believed- but I still enjoyed Mansfield Park despite the incest.
Jane Austen herself said this about Emma: "I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like."
Ty Vanessa , Ok I will try the book again , I have always disliked Emma but I will try the book again and try and see her as you have
Ps Mansfield park is still deathly dull though !!!
Emma isnt her best but still better than Mansfield Park (the only one of Austens' novels I dont like). Jane actually said herself that Emma Woodhouse is someone only SHE could love because she invented her. I didn't really like Knightley until I saw the movie w/ Jeremy Northam in the role. Now I like him lots! lol
Lol Ellie ... I am sure it was all down to his personality !!!!
Hannah wrote: "Lol Ellie ... I am sure it was all down to his personality !!!!"hmmm yes. Personality. Thats what I was looking at :)
And wasn't his ' personality ' gorgeous ... Personally I could stand to see a bit more of Colin firths ' personality ' in pride and prejudice !!
Hannah wrote: "Ty Vanessa , Ok I will try the book again , I have always disliked Emma but I will try the book again and try and see her as you have
Ps Mansfield park is still deathly dull though !!!"
There is no reason to read books that you don't enjoy. And you don't have to enjoy all of the same books as others. I'm a self confessed book snob and have groaned under the torture of some recommended reads by friends, Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet being one, but everyone seems to love that book. There are too many great books out there- don't bother rereading something that you didn't enjoy. It is okay- not to like something. I only recommend a reread of a book after many many years of separation, when life might give you a new appreciation. Mansfield Park is my least favorite Austen novel, but I have a sick love of her writing. I have a love/hate/love relationship with Jane Eyre, which I enjoy more with each reading. And after about a dozen attempts, I finally read Wuthering Heights for the first time- and I hated it. It doesn't mean they are bad books in and of themselves, just not for everyone. Happy Reading!
Lol Vanessa I detested withering heights as well
Hannah wrote: "And wasn't his ' personality ' gorgeous ... Personally I could stand to see a bit more of Colin firths ' personality ' in pride and prejudice !!"Ah, Colin Firth as Mr. Darcy. Lovely. His Personality was in full view in the wet shirt scene!
Vanessa wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Ty Vanessa , Ok I will try the book again , I have always disliked Emma but I will try the book again and try and see her as you have
Ps Mansfield park is still deathly dull thoug..."
Im with you Vanessa. Mansfield Park is also my least favorite but her flawless writing makes up for it. ALso glad to hear of another Wuthering Heights hater! Had to read it for AP English & the rest of the class seemed to love it. I was like "what are you people thinking?!" No offense to any WH lovers here, just saying :)
I think I have a problem with whiny females in books ... I spent most of tess wanting to slap her and most of withering heights wanting to bury cathy in a bog !!!! ... Give me moll Flanders, Anna karenina or Elizabeth Bennett any day lol
Nicole, I completely agree with you. Emma is an immature busy-body. Granted her character is young and immature, but she really just doesn't do it for me. Almost all of Austen's other female characters I feel like I could be friends with, but not Emma. Mr. Knightly could have done so much better.
I'm glad to know I am not the only on that doesn't like Wuthering Heights. I thought it was just me.
I didn't like Wuthering Heights either. Just so over the top! I didn't like either Catherine or Heathcliffe! But that's a different thread...
I think Emma was definitely more believable than Fanny Price, who's far too passive and timid. Emma, on the other hand, makes the mistakes you'd expect from a girl who's been sheltered all her life.
Emma spoiled !! perhaps !
as for Mr."too good to be true" ... his charchter is really cute :D
as for Mr."too good to be true" ... his charchter is really cute :D
Emma is my favourite Austen novel; I have to agree with whoever said, upthread that the point is that Emma takes herself very seriously, while the reader can easily see the ways in which she is deceiving herself; and that she has to grow as a person throughout the story.I found Mansfield Park difficult to get into at first, but I persevered and am glad I did, because I ended up enjoying it immensely. My least favourite Austen title is Northanger Abbey, fyi.
What I liked about Emma is that she does not lie to herself. And she (grudgingly) gives credit where it is due. One chapter has her attending some gathering where Jane Fairfax plays the pianoforte. Emma goes home, thinking things over, and practices for several hours.
I think that's the reason why I liked her - Emma is so imperfect, and has so many flaws, and we watch her character develop immensely throughout the storyline. She IS a brat, she IS immature, and rather selfish - but I think it gave some raw character to her personna, and I'm glad Austen made her the way she did.Mr. Knightley, I must disagree with you on though - I think he is VERY swoon worthy, though maybe not quite as much as Mr. Darcy :]
Mansfield Park has to be the worst!
I certainly agree with your stance on Emma being the least favourite Jane Austen book. Yesterday I was thinking I should reread all the books. I want to see if my views on the books will change.(I am at the different place in life now). However, I have to disagree with your views on Mr. Knightly. I do not see him as perfect and he does have characteristics that can make a lady go "awww." I guess Jane Austen's led men cannot all be the same.
Nicole D. wrote: "Emma is my least favorite Austen(I still liked it but not a 5 star book by far).Emma is such a spoiled brat and Knightly well he just isn't swoon worthy to me.Am I alone in this or do other people ..."Well, I like the character, of course at the beginning she is very immature and a busybody, but a big part of the charm of this character is the growth, learning from her mistakes, growing and becoming more tolerant.
Hannah wrote: "Lol Vanessa I detested withering heights as well"Wuthering Heights*
Nicole D. wrote: "Emma is my least favorite Austen(I still liked it but not a 5 star book by far).Emma is such a spoiled brat and Knightly well he just isn't swoon worthy to me.Am I alone in this or do other people ..."I think Emma has good qualities, but she does have some major flaws. I think in her way, she really does want to do good, but her selfishness and her inflated opinion of her own superiority make her occasionally hard to like. Speaking ill of Mr. Knightly, though. That's overly harsh. He loves her, both as a friend and as more than a friend. As such, it stands to reason that he should call her on the carpet when her behavior is out of character with who she should be: an example to those of lower status in the village and a compassionate human being. Watching her get there is a little like watching a beginning driver. There will be side walk driving and maybe even a crash, but eventually, she becomes a good, if not perfect driver of her own life.
That said, I prefer Cathy Morland or Lizzy Bennett to Emma.
I thought Northanger Abbey was her funniest novel. I laughed my butt off. I hate Catherine with a passion though. She is the worst in my opinion, even though I like the book. I think it's funny- Firth references for Darcy- you all must not have seen the 2005 version yet. Macfadyen is brilliant.
The mini series of Emma with Jonny Lee Miller as Knightly was fantastic too. You got to see the humor, the awkwardness, and the transformation in such a wonderful way. Miller also played Edmund is Mansfield Park (1999)- which was a great portrayal of the book. I loved Mansfield. Only one I don't like is Persuasion. Even the movies are bad of that one.
Kristina wrote: "Jane Austen herself said this about Emma: "I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like.""i do! i love her! and the book is equal to p&p to me, both my favorite all time books,
as for fanny, I HATE HER!
Elizabeth has always been my favorite, while Fanny Price I have found the least likeable Austen heroine. Emma was the most wealthy of the bunch, so some may find her more difficult to relate to, but I never disliked her.
I understand that it's a little hard to like Emma at first but once you begin to view her as a girl who is just as silly, if not more so, than all the people that annoy her with their silliness then you can just laugh at her. Fanny Price is probably my least favorite heroine as well, she's always so serious! I want to shake her and tell her to chill out!
As for Fanny- anyone who has ever been treated like that, understands her anxiety issues. She has a panic disorder that was "beaten" in to her. I love Fanny because I understand her and empathize with her. She was constantly told to BE serious, or else.. by her horrible horrible aunt and her uncle who never accepted her. Anyone who has had people in their life that treated them (or treats them!) unfairly, overly critical, constantly put down should like Fanny. She deserved better. I think she was one of the most realistic characters of any of Austen's novels.Now I've said my peace on the Fanny issue. Sorry lol.
nope, also not a w.h. fan. the characters are all brats at best and it is way too dark for me. at least all the austen books have an element of comedy to lighten, if not completely so...
yeah i much prefer charlotte to emily.. jane eyre is dark as well but so true to human nature and such a brilliant story
Pride and Prejudice is my favorite, but, Emma and Sense and Sensibility are tied for second. Most of Austen's books are about growth. And, Knightley is my favorite leading male character, especially well played by Mark Strong, in the A&E made for TV movie with Kate Beckinsale playing an excellent Emma. It's my favorite movie interpretation of Emma. He plays it just right, with just the right level of exasperation with the varying levels of nonsense with Emma and Frank, and also when her actions harm others. But, the point is, she does actually take things to heart - eventually. Which the utterly spoiled never do.Clueless which was inspired by Emma was funny too.
The only book I don't like is Northanger Abbey.
I wish they would have at least said that Clueless was based on Emma. It's not even part of the "trivia" or whatever on IMDB, but while I was reading Emma I was like "woah, Elton... huh.." and pieced it together. They should have given Austen some credit :(
It was the ending with such a rigid social class division that threw the novel off for me.
Well, I know that I don't have much support when I say that Emma is my most fav JA book(better that P&P).Emma is the only realistic character I find in her books.Emma is the only heroine who has drawbacks in her character.The rest of the JA heroines such as Lizzy and Elinor Dashwood are so totally picture perfect.I don't think anybody can be without faults in reality.Emma is often rated as a snob.Of course, I agree that Emma had been over confidant of her match making skills(in which she completely failed). But if she were a snob why would she even care about Harriet? She made decisions for Harriet because she thought Harriet was not capable of taking the right decisions, not because she thought herself superior to Harriet. Emma assumed that she was doing the right thing for Harriet when she chose Mr Elton.Her decisions and assumptions were wrong but her intentions were always good.
There are not many people in this world who care for their inferiors.Actually you don't need to care about your inferiors because you don't benefit from them. This is a world where friendship is made in terms of profit and loss(.. sorry for going off the topic,but still, I had to mention it).
Emma didn't expect any benefit to herself from her friendship with Harriet.She rather thought that she was being a sisterly guide to Harriet.I guess we need to acknowledge her good intentions rather than criticizing her as a snob.
I have to say that while Emma is not my favorite by far it isn't my least favorite. I love Emma's character, she seems more real than any of the other book characters. She could be any of us today with our flaws. She made mistakes but who doesn't? If I had to choose a least favorite it would be either Northanger Abbey or Persuasion. I had issues getting through both of them because they just moved so slow. I think I actually gave up on Persuasion and stopped reading...that doesn't happen often.
The only Austen book I find somewhat inferior is Northanger Abbey—but I still reread it as often as the others. Emma is brilliant comedy with a flawed heroine that we learn to love as she matures. I love Mansfield Park because I admire Fanny's virtue and steadfastness and sympathize with her timidity. I love Persuasion because I identify with Anne Elliott (doesn't everyone who lost a first love dream of getting him back someday?). And of course I love P&P and S&S. Each book has its own beauties; each sheds a slightly different light on Jane Austen herself and the world she lived in. Though I don't find Austen preachy at all, we can learn a great deal about what makes a good person or a bad person from all her books, and we would do well to take those lessons to heart.
Emma is also my least favorite of the Austen novels. Although I really liked Northanger Abbey - not as a character study, but as a comedy, it worked. And I think I may be alone in loving Persuasion almost as much as Pride and Prejudice.
Megan, you're not alone--I also love Persuasion almost as much as P&P.
Nicole D. wrote: "Emma is my least favorite Austen(I still liked it but not a 5 star book by far).Emma is such a spoiled brat and Knightly well he just isn't swoon worthy to me.Am I alone in this or do other people ..."This is by no means my least favorite Austen. I think it is much better than Persuasion, but not quite a masterpiece in the class of Pride and Prejudice.
it is not like pride and prejudice but it my second favorite of Jane Austen books followed by sense and sensibility. i think that the way Emma handled her heart and realize at the end of how fond she was of Mr Knightly is very sweet and the way he always telling her about her faults and for seeing her so dearly is so romantic. love the book, its not a common love story
As much as I love Emma I kind of agree. I love the story and most of the characters, but as you said Knightley is too perfect. I adore him as a person, but he's not really the best character.While Emma is spoiled, I don't like her less for it, because she realizes this and grows out of it by the end, when her humility leads her to believe that Knightley doesn't love her. And let's not forget her love for her father, which is perhaps her greatest characteristic.
Emma is actually my favorite Austen novel. I love the fact that Emma is so flawed. She's real. I just loved watching (well reading) her grow and mature. Despite all of her flaws, I believe she truly meant well. She had a good heart and genuinely cared about people. Yes, she was spoiled and naive, but who wouldn't be with a wealthy, doting, overprotective father? In some ways she is very mature and self-sacrificing. The way she puts caring for her father ahead of her own wants is very admirable. She was willing to give up her chance of marrying her best friend, the man she loves, in order to care for her father. By the end of the novel she realizes her mistakes and what they have cost others and admits and apologizes for them. She genuinely feels deep remorse for the things she has done. Also, she is not a snob. She becomes good friends with Harriet, who is a poor girl of questionable birth. Most women of Emma's rank would have been scandalized at the thought of socializing with Harriet, let alone becoming her friend. Emma sees Harriet as equal to Mr. Elton, Frank, and even Mr. Knightley.I love Mr. Knightley, he is my favorite Austen hero. He is mature, sweet, intelligent, kind, generous, funny, compassionate, moral, dependable, and trustworthy. I don't think that Knightley was perfect. He is at times very critical of Emma, and we all know how annoying that can be. His maturity and good judgement gives a nice contrast to Emma's naivety and silliness. She sees the world with rosy optimism, he with slightly pessimistic realism. I love the interaction between them, the fact that they really knew each other, faults and all. Their relationship is real, imperfect. I love how their relationship grows from mutual friendship and respect into love. While I admit it does still creep me out a bit that he fell in love with her when she was like 13, I love the fact that he waited for her to not just come of age, but to grow into a more mature woman. He could have just waited until she was 16 or 17, but he waits eight years for her. His love was true, long-lasting, not based on a fleeting attraction.
I also loved the supporting characters. No one is a complete villain, just people with faults and failings like all of us.
