Romeo and Juliet
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Sherry
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Dec 11, 2007 02:07PM

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The above is what I said when I nominated this play. In Harold Bloom's book Shakespeare, The Invention of the Human, he lists this play in his "The Apprentice Tragedies" section. I'm wondering if you all find it to be a bit simpler than what he calls "The Great Tragedies" which are Hamlet, Othello, King Lear, Macbeth and Antony and Cleopatra. I know that any mention of Harold Bloom will bring a hailstorm of his detractors. But, he always makes me think and gives great jumping off points for discussions.
I'm about halfway through the play, having been distracted by another book that is due back to the library. However, I am loving the romance of it and find myself furiously underlining great passages. Of course, it is ridiculous that Romeo and Juliet fall desperately in love after one night at a party, but who cares? But, then, of course, we have the wise lines from Friar Lawrence:
These violent delights have violent ends
And in their triumph die, like fire and powder,
Which, as they kiss, consume. The sweetest honey
is loathsome in his own deliciousness
And in the taste confounds the appetite.
Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow.


- Misty

"God pardon him. I do with all my heart.
And yet no man like he doth grieve my heart."
"Indeed I never shall be satisfied
With Romeo, till I behold him - dead -
Is my poor heart so for a kinsman vexed."
My heart breaks everytime I read those lines!
- Misty


Romeo is such a romantic and dull-witted about it at times. He loves a compliment and doesn't have the same introspection that Juliet does. Her line "an yet no man like he doth grieve my heart" shows a very adult understanding of her relationship for one so young. (I may be off with this as I've not finished my reread of the play-but I'll venture it just the same)

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18...
I highly recommend experiencing Shakespeare's plays this way. I heightens my understanding and is very engaging. Donna, I also kept hoping that maybe this time the letter would get to Romeo in time. Boy, those kids sure were unlucky.

That said, some quibbles of my own. Thirteen y.o. Juliet seems far and away the most mature person in the play. I found the constant punning of Romeo and his buddies SO annoying, that I was sort of, well, not sad to see Mercutio met his sad end. And Mrs. Capulet, who said she was only 13 when Juliet was born, is otherwise moaning about her advanced age throughout the play.
Here's my weird take on the play: if not for the sad intervention of poison, daggers and the implacable hatred of the Montagues and Capulets, I think Romeo & Juliet would not have lasted more than a couple of months. Romeo is just too changeable and impulsive. He is wholly governed by his emotions. Shakespeare captured "love at first sight" and youthful passion perfectly. But these ill-fated kids don't know anything about each other except how good they look in the moonlight.
Mary Ellen

Shakespeare set everything up to thwart the "lovers." The arranged marriage, the day being changed for the arranged marriage, the note undelivered. How much bad luck is possible? Every time something like that happened, I said to myself, "That Shakespeare really doesn't like these two." But you notice I still gave it five stars. It's like a fantasy world, arranged around two beautiful youths who were never meant to live.

“O, shut the door! and when thou hast done so,
Come weep with me- past hope, past cure, past help!”
That is exactly the degree of desperation one feels on the cusp of womanhood. All emotions are heightened and yet one lacks the wisdom to temper them with reason. The root of the tragedy is that no one sought to offer better guidance to these two young people. Because of that “All are punished.”

(Although I still have not gotten over being assigned the part of the Apothecary when we read the play in 6th grade. Ouch.)
Mary Ellen

About the language...I saw a speaker at a GT conference who discussed the poetics of R&J. Although I think I've marked every literary device in the book, I thought it would be interesting to see what he had to say. I was amazed! He discussed the sounds of the words more than anything - assonance, alliteration, consonance. I really liked the way he pointed out the hard/stopped consonants in Tybalt's lines and the soft vowels in Juliet's lines. Quite interesting; if you decide to do a repeat reading, keep your eye on it. It's almost as if you can get the "hot-headedness" of Tybalt by listening to the way the words sound in addition to what he says.
- Misty

You mentioned your favorite lines. I think my favorite soliloquy is when Juliet is preparing to drink the potion and she worries...about the Friar's intentions (it could possibly be poison because he is ashamed of his part in the marriage), about waking up too soon and "tickling the fingers of dead relatives" (paraphrase there), or bashing in her head with the bone of a dead relative, etc. Her fear shines through, doesn't it?
- Misty

Did anyone else have the Folder edition and read the Modern Perspective essay by Gail Kern Paster? I liked her thoughts about the play being a "narrative that expresses an historical conflict between old forms of identity and new modes of desire, between authority and freedom, between parental will and romantic individualism."

As author, Shakespeare did everything to thwart the lovers---and also had the characters say a lot about obedience, control, looking to love, loving to look, being held by the power of love and having no control, and the power of fate. Do you think the play ends as it does and is structured as it is because it is a comment on the role of fate in our lives as a counterpoint to any assumption of individualism we might make? Romeo and Juliet don't fall in love because they are hardy invidiuals, but because they are astonished by the influence of cupid, of looking, of scent even. They are "bewitched by the charm of looks." What do you think?


Many of you know that I teach this in the 9th grade; this is one theme that I wanted to discuss, but my students didn't seem to get it. I'm looking forward to talking it out.
Also, I look at this thread everyday...please keep it going!
Thanks,
Misty


Misty,
What do you students say about the play? What do they focus on?

The students seem to focus more on individual versus society. They really love to question the actions and motives of the characters and make connections to their own lives. We have to keep revisiting the culture of the time period to help them understand...why doesn't Juliet run away with Romeo when he is banishes? Why does Capulet think he can tell his daughter she must marry Paris? It gets really interesting and heated at times.
We also focus on the literary devices found within the play, and it's nice to hear them chuckle when they hear (and GET) the puns. We have a great reader that has the original language on the left and modern text on the right. They are starting to get used to the language, so we only read the original text for the most part, now. I will sometimes tell them to feel free to go back in, after our reading, and read the right hand side. If they see me blush as we read, you should see them dive back in to find out what was said! For example, Act III, scene ii, Juliet is waiting for Romeo...my,oh,my is that girl ready for her honeymoon!
- Misty


Have any of you looked into W.S.'s sources for this play? There was a poem on the same subject by one Arthur Brooke. It contains many of the same elements as Shakespeare's version. But a quick reading of that poem will soon convince the reader of Shakespeare's genius. The play completely transforms the ideas into something worth reading 400 years later. Amazing!
I am not amused.
Scratch that. I AM amused, just not impressed. I despise this play and everything it stands for. (What DOES it stand for, anyway - teenage stupidity?) Also, I'm not a fan of teens dying. (They had their whole lives ahead of them! Where's the JUSTICE?!) :'( I hate Shakespeare, period.
Scratch that. I AM amused, just not impressed. I despise this play and everything it stands for. (What DOES it stand for, anyway - teenage stupidity?) Also, I'm not a fan of teens dying. (They had their whole lives ahead of them! Where's the JUSTICE?!) :'( I hate Shakespeare, period.
Gina wrote: "Do you guys thing that Romeo and Juliet was caused by fate or by free will?"
Fate? What does fate have to do with anything? Of COURSE it was free will.
Fate? What does fate have to do with anything? Of COURSE it was free will.
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