Lasciel

[Elizabeth]

Have we seen the last of her? I really don't think so.

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Interest thought!

[Sarah]

NO she might show up in another host eventually. They will have to finally explain however how the coins get stolen bank from wherever the Priests and Knights of the Cross are securing them.

[Darkcain11, Merlin]

Hmm either shell come back when dresden's mind heals up or Nickleheads will offer it back to him.

Really hope for the earlier option because she was an awesome character. Also a nice change up to bob when dresden was info hunting.Its unlikely since he was given soulfire.

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

I don't see Lasciel coming back yet she could with a different host. I also agree with Darkcain11, since Harry has Soulfire. Lasciel won't be returning to Harry's noggin.

I would also like to know how the coins are stolen from the vaults that the priests and Knights of the Cross use secure them as well. Nicodemus routinely destroys their vaults of information whose to say he doesn't have a way of retrieving the coins as well.

[Sarah]

Even if she does return, she can't return as Lash. Lash died when she left Harry's mind because she only existed in Harry's mind. That being the case, would it really be as wonderful to get her back?

[Christian]

Angie ~aka Reading Machine~ wrote: "I don't see Lasciel coming back yet she could with a different host. I also agree with Darkcain11, since Harry has Soulfire. Lasciel won't be returning to Harry's noggin.

I would also like to know..."

I agree. Do you think Uriel would be dealing with Harry like this if Lasciel was still hanging around? Bob even mentioned at the end of White Night, that the portion of Harry's brain where Lasciel, or Lash if you will,had been residing appeared damaged. I think she is gone for good (Lash that is, not Lasciel who is still trapped in her coin somehwere.)

[Darkcain11, Merlin]

Itd be sooo cool though to have lash's shadow in their head. Take away the fact shes a fallen and tempting you into damnation.

Learning skills to block out pain emotions. Someone to converse with and bounce ideas off of. Being able to speak nearly every language and hold off old age. It would be awesome.

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Christian wrote: "Angie ~aka Reading Machine~ wrote: "I don't see Lasciel coming back yet she could with a different host. I also agree with Darkcain11, since Harry has Soulfire. Lasciel won't be returning to Harry'..."

No I don't like Uriel would be working with Harry if Lash was still around. I also agree Lasciel is still trapped in her coin somewhere too.

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Darkcain11 wrote: "Itd be sooo cool though to have lash's shadow in their head. Take away the fact shes a fallen and tempting you into damnation.

Learning skills to block out pain emotions. Someone to converse with..."

All of those things mentioned would be awesome!

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

I don't know how JB will go with it, but the Shadow in Harry's head was "Lash" who developed a "life of her own" separate from "Lasciel". One of "Lash's" concernes (unspoken) was that when she was "re-absorbed" she'd cease to exist.

So I suspect we'll see Lasciel again in another host, maybe with Nicodemus. Whether JB will come up with a way to use "Lash" again is anyone's guess.

[Matty]

I certainly hope he brings Lasciel back. It would be a real shame if Butcher brought a character with so much potential into the series and just wrote her out like that. Maybe at the end of the series he's going to have Harry fight his most serious battle yet and Harry has to combine his magic with his Winter Knight status along with taking up Lasciels coin (as he said in changes when he tells Mab he could summon Lasciel easily enough).

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

I doubt it, though that depends on JB. I think the lesson learned by Harry may be that in sacrificing all to save hs daughter he caused a lot of pain and now he'll have to deal with being Mab's (the Winter Court's)representative.

I'm assuming here you've read Ghost Story, but in case you or someone else hasn't I'll put the rest under a spoiler tag.

(view spoiler)[ Harry sees the devastation his decision has wrought when he is a ghost. He may be in danger of losing Bob, all his friends lives are in turmoil, the void left by the Red Court is being filled..."it don't look good". As he wakes (now the Winter Knight) he's facing the fact that he not only left a trail of ruin all around he badly hurt Molly. He actually asked her to invade his mind knowing this will lead her farther down a bad road. Remember when Harry soul-gazed Molly? One of the possible future "Mollies" was the one in rags etc.

I think Harry will have to go back the other way, Just me of course. Jim Butcher may have totally different ideas. (hide spoiler)]

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

All very good points Mike!

[Al]

As near as I can tell, Lash had grown into more than just a projection of a fallen angel, and I believe that she had become a soul. If so, she seems a likely recruit for "the other side", the sort of purgatory version of Chicago in which Dresden found himself at the beginning of Ghost Story (I don't remember what Butcher called it). Also, it's pretty clear that someone had been pulling strings for several human generations to essentially create someone with Harry's unique combination of power, honor, and sensibilities - My vote is for Uriel.

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

Interesting. It's seemed to me that Harry's more of an expected pivot for some big event (apocalypse? maybe THE Apocalypse?). Expected more than manipulated into being.

Depends on what JB has in mind.

[Al]

Could be some of both, I suppose (Bene Gesserit style). But then, If I had all the answers, I would have written the thing myself. And I just found this on Butcher's web site :"There will be a total of 20+ "casefile" novels, followed by the "Big Apocalyptic Trilogy"."

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

I know I saw that...and I'm 60. I'm ticked at JB. If he maintains his present pace I may not get to finish them this side of Heaven....

[Al]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I know I saw that...and I'm 60. I'm ticked at JB. If he maintains his present pace I may not get to finish them this side of Heaven...."

I'm takin' them with me even if I have to get 'em fireproofed.

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

Al...would you like to talk??????

[Louise]

Blocking pain and emotions, someone to converse with, the ability to learn/speak languages, not to mention the photographic memory... Cool fallen angel stuff...
Or plain ol' autism :-)

[James]

According to Jim Butcher in an interview, both Lash and Lasciel were in Ghost Story, under different names. He has hinted that we may see her again.

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

James wrote: "According to Jim Butcher in an interview, both Lash and Lasciel were in Ghost Story, under different names. He has hinted that we may see her again."

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. I wonder what their names were.

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

(view spoiler)[ could be (sadly for "us figurers") several characters. The whisperer is an obvious choice, but the little girl in the cemetery comes to mind and so do a lot of the "advisers" Harry had run ins with... Guess we'll see. (hide spoiler)]

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Thanks Mike!

[Adria]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I never thought about that. Now thinking about it, the little girl in the cemetary did try to help Harry...

[Richard]

(view spoiler)[ Yeh there were a few things that could have been Lash of Lasciel, im pretty sure that whispering shadow was Lasciel, not sure who Lash was though, unless she was playing possum and was the shadow, trying a different tactic to get to Harry. In which guess I then would'nt be sure who Lasciel was.... hmmmmm complicated. (hide spoiler)]

[Darkcain11, Merlin]

Maybe becoming winter knight healed more than his back.

[Nuno]

Darkcain11 wrote: "Maybe becoming winter knight healed more than his back."

Yap that's my theory for the headaches he feels but I wont go into any detail about it cause it's to spoiler filled , I made a comment on cold days thread that talks about this.

[[deleted user]]

Adria wrote: "Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I never thought about that. Now thinking about it, the little girl in the cemetary did try to help Harry..."

Yeah I made a comment in the 'finished Cold Days' thread, (view spoiler)[I think that Inez is Lash as she wanted to help him, and we know that Inez the girl never existed so it must be someone/something else. (hide spoiler)]

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

(view spoiler)[ I don't know now. I'm also wondering if maybe the "parasite" ready to explode out of Harry's head may be Lash (as opposed to Lasciel in the coin). Maybe she is now separate and trying to build her own body or something????? I don't know where JB is going. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

(view spoiler)[Well I did think that but it seems the parasite has no quarrel with harming Harry, having to be warned away by Demonreach when it begins to give him a headache, which I feel would be against Lash's character. Though she originates from Lasciel she is very contrasting in nature, wanting to help Harry due to the way he has 'shaped' her. I don't think she would come back to him as a hindrance like the parasite seems to be, but I'm really not certain on anything concerning Lash and Lasciel's returns. (hide spoiler)]

[Richard]

(view spoiler)[ Lash has appeared to be helpful for Harry, but your discounting the possability that shes been playing this as another angle to try more subtley change Harry after the direct approach failed, and used the whole *appears to have been wiped out* as a cover after all the fallen are well known for betrayal and lying so she could well be the parasite (hide spoiler)]

[Mike (the Paladin), White Council]

(view spoiler)[ I thought that or even the possibility that now she's come to the conclusion she can be "her own" and doesn't want to be "reabsorbed" by Lasciel. If that's the case the entire "being gone thing" could be a ruse. I mean Harry put her in a spot where she would possibly have to die one of 2 ways. Either Harry would die because he refused the coin, which kills her to or she takes the mental bullet to save Harry possibly killing her that way. It was a lose/lose from her point of view. Maybe she did survive and now isn't in such a hurry to help Harry?

I don't know if any of that holds water it could be completely off base. Just sort of "thinking out loud in print". (hide spoiler)]

[Darkcain11, Merlin]

Nothings scarier than a woman scorned.

[[deleted user]]

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: " I thought that or even the possibility that now she's come to the conclusion she can be "her own" and doesn't want..."

I hadn't really thought down the route of Lash turning on Harry, or having deceived him, but that does work well. Richard makes a good point that the fallen are well known for their betrayals, too, so it would fit if Lash had gone against Harry, because though she appears helpful she is still an aspect of a fallen so cannot escape that part of her nature, maybe?

All the ponderment is great! I love not knowing, because I know I will know eventually, but now I can just think up as many different legit possibilities before the truth is presented! Love it.
Indeed, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[James]

More news on Lash, it would seem that she is going to be in the next Harry Dresden Book. I got that from an unconfirmed source, however it is reliable.

[Darkcain11, Merlin]

James wrote: "More news on Lash, it would seem that she is going to be in the next Harry Dresden Book. I got that from an unconfirmed source, however it is reliable."

Makes sense someone said every fifth book is fallen angel coin friendship extravaganza.

[Nuno]

Darkcain11 wrote: "James wrote: "More news on Lash, it would seem that she is going to be in the next Harry Dresden Book. I got that from an unconfirmed source, however it is reliable."

Makes sense someone said ever..."

And Lash is referred as a parasite before Cold Days, makes sense for her to make a comeback, and for we to learn where the nickleheads stand now after what happened in Cold Days.

[Yutg]

I hope Lasciel comes back in another host. She must be nursing a pretty serious grudge on Harry. She'll make a very interesting and scary enemy especially if she gets into someone good like Karrin or Molly one of the women in Harry's life. I'm being evil, I know, but I think it would be something that Nick would do. Hit Harry where it hurts.

[Zeenat]

Lash in Harry's head is not the same as Lasciel in the coin. Lash in his head was an imprint left by the coin, The coin's Lasciel has no memory of what happened in Harry's head. So what would be the real Lasciel's grudge other than harry not keeping the coin?

I do think it would be interesting to see if someone he cares about pick up the coin. Any one would be interesting... Personally i'd like to see Michael, but I doubt he'd pick it up :-\

[Yutg]

Zeenat but Maybe I'm sure Lasciel knows she sent Lash into Harry's head. Lash was worried about Lasciel reaction if Lash helped Harry instead of calling the coin when Harry was fighting Vitto. Maybe its just because Lash didn't know Lasciel couldn't do anything to her but I doubt it.

Michael confirmed that NO ONE who has touch the coin has ever been able resist it without joining.

Lash couldn't seal the deal even though she had 3+ years and not only did Lash fail to turn Harry; Harry managed to turn Lash. Lasciel is known as the Seducer, the Webweaver and the Temptress. thats got to be bad for her image that Harry slipped her grasp.

Not to mention Nicks reaction. Yes Nick's scared of Harry maybe because Harry nearly killed him twice but I'm sure he hasn't missed the fact that Lasciel failed. We haven't seen it but what Harry did has got to worry him.

I agree that anyone who Harry cared about picked it up would be interesting but I've always gotten it to my head that Lasciel is a feminine noting Lash and her title so my hope is Karin or Molly and the woman that doesn't join the dark side will be the one Harry ends up with.

I am still on Ghost story right now and Harry's death has shown me three candidates.
1. Karin is fraying at the edges distrustful harder and conflicted.
2. Molly is being mentored by The Leanansidhe, does anyone else think that Anakin(molly)/Palpatine(Leanansidhe) situation going on there especially while Dresden/(Kenobi) is away. (Just finished Ghost story so I'm kind of in a star wars place)
3. is Daniel cuz hes a bit too eager. I know he wants one of the swords and it might just take a whisper, from parties unknown, that he might like to prove he is Knight material by touching one of the coins. (its a line of attack)

[Vincentdelareaux]

I've been working on a theory that I'd like to share with the good people here.
Yes Lasciel was a fallen angel but that carbon copy that resided in Harry's head wasn't Lasciel anymore. She proved she didn't want to be what she once was (in my eyes) by sacrificing herself for Harry but she wasn't fully gone as she managed to help harry play the guitar at the end of the book and "spoke" to him. Skipping ahead to ghost story and cold days, the parasite which resides in Harry could very well be a regenerated Lash due to the influence of soul fire, a energy source which has as a main purpose to create. If Lash wasn't fully "killed" she could have used the soul fire as a way to heal herself. By the time Harry died and during the leave his soul took of his body she could have been the one taking over for him, ensuring that his body would live. Perhaps it's also so that because it took him so long to come back to his body that she has grown an actual body, the parasite mentioned but this is a long shot. From a pure writers perspective it could be the way that JB hopes to keep in Bob. Bob was originally written into the story to act as a literal talking head, to explain things to the readers. Now that Bob belongs to Butters (one of my favorite characters) He'll need another talking head to act as an adviser to Harry.
Yes the theory isn't likely but then again Butters is currently living with Andy so who knows.

[Richard]

Trouble is that all the Parasite theories of Lash have one problem, its trying to kill Harry, If Lash had become a force of good who would sacrifice herself for Harry then she wouldn't now be trying to kill him.

[Vincentdelareaux]

Nowhere is mentioned that it is trying to kill Harry, only that it will kill him. It could be that simply her presence is going to cause his death. She isn't acting or communicating cause those things would do damage or kill him but she also cannot leave his head as she doesn't have a body to reside within, no place in the material world as it were and does not want to die herself therefor with her skills at mind magic, Molly is needed for her to leave Harry's body.

[Lndavidson]

Couldn't she inhabit something like Bob has?

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Lndavidson wrote: "Couldn't she inhabit something like Bob has?"

Bob is a spirit therefore Lasciel can't inhabit him.

[Lndavidson]

No what I meant was, why couldn't lash have a vessel like bob does. A place like bobs not actually in bob

[Angie ~aka Reading Machine~, White Council]

Makes sense now that you've said it.

[Lndavidson]

I remember Bob asking Harry to ready another vessel for him. Dint remember if he did or not. But my logic is, why couldn't she have one and be similar to Bob.