THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
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Intelligence Operations & Units During WW2
A May release:
by Dirk Jan BarreveldDescription:
This work reveals one of the most important intelligence triumphs of World War II. It was no less than the capture of Japan’s “Plan Z”—the Empire’s fully detailed strategy for prosecuting the last stages of the Pacific War. It’s a story of happenstance, mayhem, and intrigue, and resulted directly in the spectacular U.S. victory in the Philippine Sea and MacArthur’s early return to Manila, doubtless shortening WWII by months.
One night in April 1944, Admiral Koga (successor to Yamamoto), commander-in-chief of Japanese forces in the Pacific, took off in a seaplane to establish new headquarters. For security reasons he had his chief-of-staff, Rear Admiral Fukudome, fly in a separate seaplane. But both aircraft ran into a tremendous typhoon and were knocked out of the skies. Koga’s plane crashed with the loss of all hands. Fukudome’s crashlanded into the sea off Cebu, the Philippines, and both the admiral and the precious Japanese war plans floated ashore.
Lt. Col. James M. Cushing was an American mining engineer who happened to be in Cebu when war broke out in the Pacific. He soon took charge of the local guerrillas and became a legendary leader. But his most spectacular exploit came when he captured Admiral Fukudome and the “Plan Z” that was in his tow. The result was a ferocious cat-and-mouse game between Cushing’s guerrillas and the Japanese occupation forces. While Cushing desperately sent out messages to MacArthur to say what he had found, the Japanese scoured the entire countryside, killing hundreds of civilians in a full-scale attempt to retrieve their loss.
Cushing finally traded the admiral in return for a cessation of civilian deaths—but he still secretly retained the Japanese war plans. Naturally both Tokyo and Washington tried to cover up what was happening at the time—neither wanted the other to know what they’d lost, or what they’d found. However, in this book we finally learn of the huge intelligence coup by Lt. Col. Cushing that helped to shorten the entire war.
An October release:
by Douglas WallerDescription:
They are the most famous and controversial directors the CIA has ever had—Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, William Colby, and William Casey. Disciples is the story of these dynamic agents and their daring espionage and sabotage in wartime Europe under OSS Director Bill Donovan.
Allen Dulles ran the OSS’s most successful spy operation against the Axis. Bill Casey organized dangerous missions to penetrate Nazi Germany. Bill Colby led OSS commando raids behind the lines in occupied France and Norway. Richard Helms mounted risky intelligence programs against the Russians in the ruin of Berlin after the German surrender.
Four very different men, they later led (or misled) the successor CIA. Dulles launched the calamitous operation to land CIA-trained, anti-Castro guerrillas at Cuba’s Bay of Pigs. Helms was convicted of lying to Congress over the CIA’s role in the coup that ousted Chile’s president. Colby would become a pariah for releasing to Congress what became known as the “Family Jewels” report on CIA misdeeds during the 1950s, sixties and early seventies. Casey would nearly bring down the CIA—and Ronald Reagan’s presidency—from a scheme that secretly supplied Nicaragua’s contras with money raked off from the sale of arms to Iran for American hostages in Beirut.
Mining thousands of once-secret World War II documents and interviewing scores of family members and CIA colleagues, Waller has written a brilliant successor to Wild Bill Donovan.
I'm currently reading Aleksandr Orlov's
Handbook Of Intelligence And Guerrilla Warfare
Orlov was a spy chief in the NKVD under Stalin and this is a 'for lay-readers' synopsis of the instruction manual issued to agents during the 30s and 40s. Friggin' Soviet moles were everywhere, worming their way into the administration of almost any country. Certainly not as clumsy as we've often been led to believe.
You can see my review to learn how I'm liking it so far...
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Been scanning down through this fine thread. Gotta say, (facetiously) some of these titles sound pretty amped. How many operations were there which actually won this war? They sound like they all did :D
Gotta sell books somehow Feliks :)
I'd like to see them all in a room arguing for who's operation was 'the more decisive' and who's was 'the most daring':D
...but of course, you cant do any fighting in the War Room, we know that
It would be a interesting 'battle' :)
Feliks wrote: "I'd like to see them all in a room arguing for who's operation was 'the more decisive' and who's was 'the most daring':D
...but of course, you cant do any fighting in the War Room, we know that"
LOL. What a great movie.
Heh. :) In my line of work I see administrators and department heads behaving in exactly this same absurd style; albeit translated to a different field. I see factions of grown men shouting at each other, babbling acronyms and doubletalk --all manner of gibberish--at the top of their lungs, in meeting after meeting.
This is not a WWII book--The Strange Death of Liberal England--but I had great fun recently reading it and I mention it here (with a hearty recommendation) for any fans of the life of Winston Churchill.I know there must be many biographies of Churchill but for humor and poignancy, I don't think any more sober, abstemious account can match the deft brush-strokes of Mr. Dangerfield as he describes the sprawling age in which young Churchill appeared, while carving his early career.
I had previously only seen Churchill drawn this way in fiction--by Ken Follett--his anarchist thriller, "The Man from St. Petersburg". But even Follet doesn't do the mercurial Churchill justice.
Young Churchill was hilarious. Dangerfield details his involvement in the women's suffrage scandal, the Irish Home Rule ordeal, the transit strikes. He shows us Churchill's quicksilver moods while at the Admiralty, and the FO, at major events and in private correspondence. We see him hopping in-and-out-of touring-cars, issue-ing order to scatter mobs, mulling over how to handle this-or-that-crisis.
The book is not about Churchill of course, but it is interesting to see (even in brief) the quirky, lively temperament he exhibited in the early century as opposed the one we are all so much more familiar with--the stalwart & phlegmatic Churchill of WWII.
My old and late friend Pieter Krueler, the subject of the book (his biography) Four War Boer met Churchill, and they liked each other.
A September release:
by Max HastingsDescription:
Examining the espionage and intelligence stories in World War II, on a global basis, bringing together the British, American, German, Russian and Japanese histories.
There were two Second World Wars: one fought on the battlefields, and another conducted by men and women few of whom ever fired a weapon in anger, but whose efforts vastly influenced the conflict. The Secret War 1939-45 examines that other war waged by British, American, German, Russian and Japanese intelligence-gathering personnel. Moving chronologically through the conflict, Max Hastings charts the successes and failures of allied and axis forces, espionage and counterespionage.
Observing how the evolution of electronic communications dramatically increased the possibilities and significance of these secret battles, this is the story of intelligence beyond Bletchley to the FBI, Russia and the spies of axis dictatorships. For the first time since his best-selling All Hell Let Loose, Max Hastings returns to the Second World War, this time to chronicle its second, untold story.
An October release:
by Adrian O'SullivanDescription:
A companion to the pioneering Nazi Secret Warfare in Occupied Persia (Iran), which told of Germany's spectacular failure in wartime Persia (Iran), this carefully researched study of British, American, and Soviet success in the region makes for fascinating reading. Espionage and Counterintelligence in Occupied Persia (Iran) introduces us to Allied and Axis spies, spycatchers, and spymasters and to the highly effective methods employed by the regional security forces to safeguard from Nazi attack and indigenous sabotage the lines of communication, the Lend-Lease supply route from the Gulf to the Caspian, and the vital oilfields, pipelines, and refineries of Khuzistan. Of particular interest in this study of neglected operational narratives and key clandestine personalities is its lucid description and analysis of Anglo-American and Anglo-Soviet intelligence relations as the three Allies moved inexorably towards postwar realignment and the Cold War.
Jerome wrote: "An October release: by Adrian O'SullivanDescr..."
Interesting subject added to the good old TBR
more please, I would like some more please...
A September release:
by Damien LewisDescription:
When France fell to the Nazis in the winter of 1939, Prime Minister Winston Churchill declared that Britain would resist the advance of the German army--alone if necessary. To help defeat the seemingly unstoppable German war machine, Churchill called for the swift and secret development of a very special kind of military unit, the likes of which the world had never seen.
Churchill commanded the Special Operations Executive (SOE) to recruit a team of survivalists, free-thinkers, misfits, and outright criminals--men with a wide variety of skill sets that together would enable them to operate purely on their own initiative deep behind enemy lines. And because they would flout the rules of war, these men were to be the SOE's first "deniable" operatives, and the first to be truly "licensed to kill."
The very first of these "butcher-and-bolt" units--the innocuously named Maid Honour Force--was led by Gus March-Phillipps, a wild British eccentric of high birth, and an aristocratic, handsome, and bloodthirsty young Danish warrior, Anders Lassen. Amped up on amphetamines, these assorted renegades and sociopaths undertook the very first of Churchill's special operations--a top-secret, high-stakes mission to seize Nazi shipping in the far-distant port of Fernando Po, in West Africa.
Though few of these early desperadoes survived WWII, they took part in a series of fascinating, daring missions that changed the course of the war. It was the first stirrings of the modern special-ops team, and all of the men involved would be declared war heroes when it was all over.
Written by award-winning historian Damien Lewis, The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare focuses on a dozen of these extraordinary men, weaving their stories of brotherhood, comradeship, and elite soldiering into a gripping narrative yarn, from the earliest missions to Anders Larssen's tragic death, just weeks before the end of the war.
Jerome wrote: "A September release: by [author:Damien Lewis|103951..."Thanks, Jerome. Adding to the TBR list!
Was just reading about 'Operation North Pole'. Although Churchill's SOE has remarkable successes, they also had some catastrophic disasters. This was one of the latter. Inexplicable negligence which cost the lives of fifty agents. A plausible excuse not easily found save for the possibility of communist meddling behind-the-scenes. The Dutch held a board of inquiry which lasted several years, trying to fathom where blame lay.What I didn't know was how deeply such mishandling alienated the Low Countries and France towards Britain in the war's aftermath. It is said France practically wound up in a civil war; 30,000 lives lost in that acrimony alone. Basically the Resistance movements in these countries were not happy; they didn't even want to give up their arms.
I must confess to having never heard of 'Operation North Pole', does sound like a bit of a cock-up!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England...
Well I'm glad to be the one with a scoop for a change! Hard to do among this group's knowledgeable peeps :pAnyway yeah I found it pretty fascinating reading. Holy hannah what the heck happened?
Its like, 'Okay men, remember one thing: if you get captured, and the Nazis try to force you to radio us false info--use the secret tip-off that lets us know you've been blown'.
Only, we won't look at it. Sorry!
Jerome wrote: "A September release: by [author:Damien Lewis|103951..."Thanks Jerome; this book sounds good.
I read and reviewed a while back Inside North Pole: A Secret Agent's Story by Pieter Dourlein which talks about exactly that. I haven't a clue how to cut and paste on this tablet but I believe mine is the only review of it on Goodreads.
Here's a link to Bev's review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...Between Silk and Cyanide: A Codemaker's War, 1941-1945
talks a little about Operation North Pole. Part of the reason it continued so long was rivalry between SOE and SIS. SOE was afraid that if word got out that their whole Dutch operation was blown, the Americans would work with SIS instead and SOE would be cut out of the invasion of France. So despite all the evidence, they pretended like everything was fine.On one hand, keeping those agents "active" and acting like they weren't captured may have let the captured agents live a little longer. If the Nazis knew the British knew, why keep the captured agents alive? But sending more agents into a compromised area was pretty low. They had no chance of survival.
Thanks for these two follow ups. I was wondering if there was a book dedicated to the topic.
A March 2016 release:
by Benjamin F. JonesDescription:
In the run-up to the invasion of Normandy in June 1944, General Dwight D. Eisenhower faced a series of seemingly insurmountable dilemmas. Outnumbered and desperate for any advantage to make their way past the well-defended beaches and into France, the Allies had reached out to French guerillas and partisans to help secure their aims—but transforming the highly independent resistance groups into a governable body and fighting force was a formidable task. To make matters more difficult, President Roosevelt refused to give full Allied support to Charles de Gaulle and his Free French government, and would not supply the timing, location, and other key details of Operation Overlord. It was into this storm of political mistrust and military confusion that Eisenhower sent the Jedburghs.
Eisenhower's Guerillas tells the story of the reconnaissance and intelligence teams of young Special Forces, called Jedburghs, who worked behind enemy lines to strengthen the Allies' position in Northern France. Their task of organizing and training the French operatives, already monumental, was made more difficult by the fact that France's war aims were profoundly different from those of America and Britain, who regarded France as merely a military objective on the way to defeating Germany. Ben Jones describes how Eisenhower learned how to exploit this political turmoil to his advantage, and explores how the Allied Jedburgh teams still managed to coordinate French guerrilla operations within the overall plans for the country's liberation.
Underscoring the critical and often overlooked part that irregular warfare played in Allied operations on the Continent, Jones delivers a riveting story of the battle for France and the political complexities that threatened to undermine the operation from within.
I interviewed Col. Aaron Bank, former OSS/Jedburgh man, and the father of the Green Berets. Many of his comments are in my book German Anti-Partisan Warfare in Europe. They were very effective.
Here's another obscure WWII clandestine operation which it might be, has not yet come up for discussion around here, so I will mention it in the hopes it sparks some interest.This one is a German intelligence op vs Britain, called 'Operation Bernhard'. Pretty nifty reading!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...
Interesting, Feliks, I think that the movie The Counterfeiters is based on this (and on the following book)
by Lawrence Malkin
Very likely so! I hadn't known about the op until today; so had no inkling that any film/book was connected to the same. Thanks for the tip.I'm always startled to hear that they keep making WWII movies. Like when Terence Malik did 'The Thin Red Line' a while ago. Or Nicholas Cage 'Wind Talkers'. What audience do they think is out there anymore for flicks like these? Sure, history-minded folks like we have here in this group; but that's not the kind of audience the big studios want to serve anymore. They're chasing the kids with 3-d glasses who will watch and re-watch a $20 film like 'Avatar' twenty times during a summer. You wouldn't think they cared about 'boring' history at all in the face of those kind of multi-millions.
I'm being cynical, yes--but as for me, somehow I am only drawn to WWII films made during or shortly after WWII itself. Its just so much easier to 'drift into the frame' of the flick. Anyone else cotton on to what I mean? Somehow the grainy prints and the b&w photography are more 'realistic-feeling' to me, than the impossible, no-human-eye-is-that-crystal-clear computerized photography we have in more modern films.
p.s. btw, I've learned as well that this vast source of counterfeit funds was used to pay the spy Cicero; which is how he got his comeuppance in the end. Just goes to show, "you can do everything right and still be wrong..."
Feliks wrote: " somehow I am only drawn to WWII films made during or shortly after WWII itself. Its just so much easier to 'drift into the frame' of the flick. Anyone else cotton on to what I mean? Somehow the grainy prints and the b&w photography are more 'realistic-feeling' to me, than the impossible, no-human-eye-is-that-crystal-clear computerized photography we have in more modern films. Same here. Up to 1969 is my very rough indicator. Not that I seem to have had time in absolutely ages to actually sit down and watch one. [Sigh]. It's not just the grainy prints so much as having actors, male & female, who lived through WW2 not knowing who'd live, and who'd 'win'.
^
well malik's version was made 17yrs ago! yeah where does the time go?I'd say malik was trying to transfer the literature of war to a movie, rather than make a ww2 movie.
Those are still new movies as far as I'm concerned; because its all the same stage/phase/manner-of-movie-making as far as the industry itself. Just like with the western: 'Heaven's Gate' is the demarcation point for the change between current westerns and classic westerns. And for arthouse films as well. In one fell swoop that debacle took down two longstanding traditions.
I have enjoyed recent movies that have come out like The Imitation Game and The Woman in Gold. I also found Unbroken fascinating.
message 187:
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Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
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Its an interesting point on audiences Feliks. I think WWII is a regular source for studios as the storylines of heroism, tragedy, death and fast paced action (n most war films) helps in the same way perhaps that say car chases or gang shootouts do to pull audineces in.
I agree with you. Storylines about heroism are the draw. You can see that a good tale of wartime bravery is still the meat of these movies, whenever they do continue to trickle down to us.But I also think that when the accountants and the execs in Hollywood conference rooms are deciding what pictures to make every year (these days, that is) they often halt any idea for a war story based on two concerns:
a) will today's kids grasp the historical setting?
b) what are the production costs for this war pic?
[children and adolescents--as you know--form the majority of theater-goers in this era]
There's a lot I'm sure we could all contribute to this interesting topic; (and I don't wish to derail the thread) but the overall theme here (I believe) is this: wouldn't you say that today's audiences just aren't in touch with WWII and what it meant? Unlike other generations who grew up with tv shows and movies filled with WWII tales--do viewers today even recognize the connection to the past?
Sometimes I wonder. For instance, I was in a conversation recently and the topic was gangster films. People could only name ones as far back as 'The Godfather'. Every other title mentioned was one which was recent-memory and which had been given 'the big treatment' (aka, big name stars, sequels, splashy fanfare).
I bet I could mention a once-common term like 'Midway Island' or 'Enola Gay' to any 21 yr old kid lately and they wouldn't be able to connect it to anything. I'd get a blank look. It seems like they're very familiar with sci-fi and fantasy; but not with this stuff...
I dare say you are right Feliks, I suppose it comes down to their exposure to history, be it at school or at home or if they have the interest to explore themselves. We no longer have many veterans of WW2 still within the community or as relatives for that exposure to take hold. It appears that now a days everything is given to the younger generation on a plate and fed to them and they don't bother looking any further. That may be a bit of a over generalization I suppose but that's how it seems.
I was born in '57 and when I was growing up it was all WW II. A few yrs ago, the family was talkng about WWII and Viet Nam with my father (an early Viet Nam Vet (66-67)) and I realized to my children his war was further in the past than WW II was to me. I think this might have something to do with it.
Thanks for your input. These are matters not a little worrying. Every year there is 'Flag Day', 'the Fourth' and 'Veteran's Day' but I wonder how many people really feel their meaning. Appreciation of history brings with it certain values; although I don't believe in mindless, rah-rah patriotism I do believe that the lessons of WWII should always inform us as to how to live in a complex world. It's disturbing to me to see a horde of kiddies these days, so manipulated by advertising-driven media, so addicted to fantasy and frivolity (superheroes & laser beams) that they can't recognize their debt to an earlier set of American citizens. Not everything should be handed to us by Pixar. Not everything should crumble into a far-fetched, jabbering, consumer-media, 'blur'. That's all I'm feeling right now. Just a wish for more clarity and more heart. The bean-counters in LA should not determine our culture, I say.
My book, "The Star of Africa: The Story of Hans Marseille" is being bounced around as a new WW II film, just FYI. If you have not read his story (complete with interviews I did with Luftwaffe pilots who flew with him), you will find it interesting.
message 193:
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Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
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Feliks wrote: "Sometimes I wonder. For instance, I was in a conversation recently and the topic was gangster films. People could only name ones as far back as 'The Godfather'. Every other title mentioned was one which was recent-memory and which had been given 'the big treatment' (aka, big name stars, sequels, splashy fanfare). I bet I could mention a once-common term like 'Midway Island' or 'Enola Gay' to any 21 yr old kid lately and they wouldn't be able to connect it to anything. I'd get a blank look. It seems like they're very familiar with sci-fi and fantasy; but not with this stuff..."
Fair points on both Feliks and I agree. I also wonder though if it is an age thing? My reasoning being that when I was a young boy I loved watching war films but didn't really clock the wider impact or indeed involvement of my parents (as children) or older family members who served - although I was always interested.
I see a turn for the better in Britain too. Children are now taught WWI and WWII as part of a national syllabus. I collect with other veteran friends for something called the Poppy Appeal (people give money and wear a poppy with the monies raised going to help ex-service personnel and their families). We also give talks to school children on the bakcgroun to and importance of Remembrance. The children in the main know of the world wars and are always interested with great questions and some with solid knowledge of their own family's service
My biggest whinge on WWII films is Hollywood's wish to distort history. U-571 being the prme example where the film shows the submarine and enigma being captured by USN personnel. In fact - as I am sure you know - the enigma from a submarine was captured, from U-110, by British RN personnel. Obviously this side of the Atantic much derision and annoyance by veterans and others.
There's much in what you say.I take into account the aspect of relative age, when I composed my remarks. When did Vic Morrow star in TV's 'Combat!' program? 1968? That's quite a long time since the end of WWII. But even as far apart as the late 60s were from the late 40s, WWII was still a prevalent genre found in TV and movies. Many of the biggest 1960s movies were war stories; and those that became mega-hits were just a few plucked from a lot more that went unremarked. Kids still played 'army men' in their backyards, over their backfences. They knew how to crawl under imaginary barbed wire (as it were). The US soldier --the dogface--was a cultural icon.
Sure, Lucas/Spielberg and the SF/fantasy craze came along and changed everything. But I feel that rigor-less fantasy is so huge these days and war movies so rare--that the historical context they come from, is hardly even recognized anymore.
Example: you could probably produce a war movie these days which had zombies, aliens, or the supernatural involved as part of the tale and who would blink? Its becoming something--as you point out with the Enigma story--which is just not well-known enough anymore for people to spot inaccuracies, or be outraged by them.
It is disturbing, and I think anyone might be disturbed by faithless storytelling no matter what decade they were actually born in. I don't feel that seeing people grow up disinformed about American history depends on ageism. Its not mere sentimentality.
Geevee wrote: "Feliks wrote: "Sometimes I wonder. For instance, I was in a conversation recently and the topic was gangster films. People could only name ones as far back as 'The Godfather'. Every other title men..."The U-110 commanded by Fritz-Julius Lemp was the first, the USS Guadalacanal Task Force captured the 2nd, U-505 off West Africa with an updated Enigma 4 rotor, along with the code book. The systems chief PO 2nd class on that boat who set the charges, but failed to go off, was a friend of mine, Hans Goebeler. My other old friend had served on that boat as the XO, Thilo Bode, who was half Jewish, FYI. He later commanded his own Type XI boat.
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Feliks wrote: "There's much in what you say.I take into account the aspect of relative age, when I composed my remarks. When did Vic Morrow star in TV's 'Combat!' program? 1968? That's quite a long time since t..."
I'm not familair with the programme Combat but your comments on playing soldiers and crawling under imaginary barbed wire and more certainly sounds like me as a boy.
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Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
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Colin wrote: "Geevee wrote: "Feliks wrote: "Sometimes I wonder. For instance, I was in a conversation recently and the topic was gangster films. People could only name ones as far back as 'The Godfather'. Every ..."Thanks Colin. A pity Hollywood didn't choose to do the capture of U110 or for more US centric audience/investment the capture of U-505. Thilo Bode sounds like an interesting character with his background.
Not familiar with 'Combat'!!!!Geez Geevee I'm very disappointed :)
I grew up watching Combat, Twelve O'Clock High, Rat Patrol, even the lighter side, such as Hogan's Heroes and McHale's Navy.
Big fan of the movie, myself; it may even be my #1 fave war movie (well, after 'Kwai' which is my favorite movie of all time from any genre). That tells you how big a fan I am of that flick.Certainly 'Twelve', is my favorite air-combat film. Never saw the tv series. Must not have been syndicated on the stations we had at the time.
But yeah I don't know how GeeVee is unfamiliar with Vic Morrow in 'Combat'. [Lol @ Rick's extra exclamation points]. Maybe GV was in trouble with his folks at the time and they barred him from all tv watching? Because it was renowned. Older siblings enjoyed it, in my family.
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
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The Other Codebreakers: Breaking the Non-Military Codes at Bletchley Park and Beyond (other topics)
G.I. G-Men: The Untold Story of the FBI’s Search for American Traitors, Collaborators, and Spies in World War II Europe (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
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Harold Liberty (other topics)
Stephen Harding (other topics)
Richard Duckett (other topics)
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Description:
The OSS—Office of Strategic Se..."
Thanks, Jerome. Adding to the tbr list!