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Jul 2012: Nine Rules to Break Drinking Game?
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Ashlynn
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Jul 22, 2012 04:55AM
Is it just me or is the phrase "London's most notorious rake" used a lot? For some reason repetition like that always stands out to me. I realize that is Ralston's reputation, but i could help but feel like there could be a little more variety in how it was said. Just wondering if I'm the only one who felt that way.
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Oh they must just all be in the first 30% cause I'm only about that far in and pretty sure I've seen it at least 4 times! haha But good to know!
Eva wrote: "I think there were a lot of words and phrases that were repeated a lot in this book (Laved? Suckled? Sigh?). And they would probably make for an excellent drinking game!"Oh, ho ho. Challenge Accepted.
Twetch wrote: "Eva wrote: "I think there were a lot of words and phrases that were repeated a lot in this book (Laved? Suckled? Sigh?). And they would probably make for an excellent drinking game!"Oh, ho ho. Ch..."
Heck. Yes.
Maybe "London's most notorious rake." was used a lot because that was his unofficial title. ^_^;
It is quite common in these types of books. Apparently it is a badge of honour to find a male slut and reform him so only one woman will do.
I think I would find it interesting to have the rolls reversed in such a genre ...
Samantha wrote: "It is quite common in these types of books. Apparently it is a badge of honour to find a male slut and reform him so only one woman will do.
I think I would find it interesting to have the roll..."
Heck yes.
Eva wrote: "And then the man would have to be a virgin? Not sure that's as impressive to a woman who's been around. Hmm... it does remind me of Kushiel's Dart."I'm not really sure why it is so preferable to have an untried female either ... although it is a common enough trope
Eva wrote: "yeah, I don't get that either. And if you have to be a virgin to reform a rake, what happens when the leading lady becomes more experienced after a couple of months/years of marriage? Does he get b..."Well that is the thing isn't it. But meh I still find myself falling for it time and again ...
I think the whole virgin thing is more important to men and that's pretty much embedded in our society since the times when women were considered property in ancient times. I'm not a historian so I'm not exactly sure of the specifics. I just know that this kinda thing has been part of human civilization for a very long time. In this case maybe it was important for her to be a virgin AND so highly established in society AND that she has a pristine reputation for him to take notice. Because I guess it's just not like him to pay attention to a girl like Callie AND add that to the fact that she thinks differently. I bet he's kicking himself for not courting other women such as she.
And also since she's a virgin no one tasted her goods but him. ^_^;
Keidy wrote: "I think the whole virgin thing is more important to men and that's pretty much embedded in our society since the times when women were considered property in ancient times. I'm not a historian so I..."Indeed but don't you find it vaguely misogynistic ... ok for that time period it is "realistic" even if nothing else is i.e. people marrying for love in the upper classes. However given that the fiction is being written by women, today, wouldn't you think at least a few here and there would feature some worldly woman ... I suppose the most I have seen is a widow or two.
It doesn't bother me horribly and admittedly I do enjoy a good Reform the Rake story ... but I think in this book at least Callie is kicking herself for being so good and missing out on the fun.
I guess I'm thinking of this because much like rapishness in fiction that *we* accept other inequities. Now admittedly I have enjoyed more than one Amanda Quick novel because of her heroines bluestocking tinge, although their panties appear to be pure white as it were.
Is this yet another thing that we accept in our VagFan / chick lit that we wouldn't "irl"
I'm seriously going to have to stop thinking about this kind of thing or it will ruin me for the sexy times in said books.
Samantha wrote: "I think I would find it interesting to have the rolls reversed in such a genre..."Somebody order a Virgin!Hero? Unclaimed by Courtney Milan
Zomg getting that IMMEDIATELY!My cynicism at the genre has been lifted ... thank you @PointyEars42
Samantha wrote: "Indeed but don't you find it vaguely misogynistic ... ok for that time period it is "realistic" even if nothing else is i.e. people marrying for love in the upper classes. However given that the fiction is being written by women, today, wouldn't you ..."I guess so but you also gotta remember, that these kind of books are pretty much junk food for the brain. Or at least that's what me and my friends call them. They're there to help us relax and read something enjoyable without doing so much thinking. I can admit myself that I'm really cynical about love, but I really do enjoy very strong females as leading ladies the best and I'm sure there are books out there that would reflect your tastes in such things.
Hell, I just found out there are Dragon Vaginal Fantasies so whatever niche you enjoy reading the most, it has to be out there somewhere. I would adore reading a book that has the gender domination be the other way around and I think I missed my chance since last month's books sounds very similar to just that. I'll have to go back and rent these books out sometime.
Oops! Sorry! I didn't mean that. Okay. Another word that's used a lot is reputation. If you use that word you'd get drunk in the first 15 minutes. ^_^;
Eva wrote: "I think we're getting away from topic but that's easily remedied. Take a drink everytime a romance cliché is introduced. Virgin heroine, rake, duel etc."Love it!
Keidy wrote: "I think the whole virgin thing is more important to men and that's pretty much embedded in our society since the times when women were considered property in ancient times." If you think about inheritance/bloodline-related tropes, the focus on a woman's virginity was also about tracking parentage pre-DNA testing. Very important in both real life and in Romancelandia, where every third person is a Duke or Earl or Countess with an estate or a fortune that must have an heir. I think of them as "Bastard Books", because someone usually is, in the original sense of the word.
~~How bizarre though - to track a baby's bloodlines by assuming its mother has only ever had sex with its father after they were legally wed. What do authors think those strapping footmen are for? Tracking parentage through the female line is the only thing that makes sense (the identity of the father may be iffy, but that kid's mother is definitely the lady screaming for drugs! So easy to keep track of.)~~
Yes, the drinking game... soured on the idea since it just brings back (dark, horrible, evil, not-at-all-soft-fuzzy) memories of Gabriel's Ghost. Rainbows! On the other hand, just watching the Hangout has become a delightful excuse for a weekday binge drinking session anyway...
Spinster is another word that's used a lot... A WHOLE lot.
Eva wrote: "Does he get bored and start raking again? "I lol'd.
Oh I like this game, and I nominate the word "core" or the phrase "to his/her core" - take a drink! Also, if you're looking for more "female rakes" - Your Scandalous Ways by Loretta Chase is pretty good, heroine is a courtesan, and hero is a jewel thief/con artist.
Indeed but don't you find it vaguely misogynistic ... ok for that time period it is "realistic" even if nothing else is i.e. people marrying for love in the upper classes. However given that the fiction is being written by women, today, wouldn't you think at least a few here and there would feature some worldly woman ... I suppose the most I have seen is a widow or two. Try reading Francis Burney's Evelina which was published in 1778. Same love story, less sex, and she points out why women are considered valuable according to their social status, virginity (ie. a clean & loyal wife), and especially their money or dowry. The contemporary historical romances are generally pretty lacking in the historical aspect but the base plot is still the same. Misogyny is rampant and women were bred into believing all the hype about themselves. Most of these female characters would not dare to be so forward with themselves, even if some of them are French (DD). Callie in 9 rules would have immediately been ostracized for the Duke's knowledge of her existence in a personal way without being introduced. And I hate to say this but female rakes, if the rakish-ness were public, would be ostracized, hung, or sent to the convent. Most female rakes were considered whores even if they did come from good families, who promptly disowned them when infidelity to the vows of chastity were discovered. I know a couple stories with accurate female rakes but I'll have to get back to you on that one.
...whew rant over. My specialty is gentleman's dress reform in the 16-19th centuries so a lot of this stuff comes up when doing research for my thesis. A cool fact, men (rakes) before 1775 often had panels stitched into their clothing for "easy access".
@Rachel, totally totally get all of that. But ... there is always a but. This is fiction, written today, not particularly historically accurate in other ways. Why is this one thing so easy to stick to.Also I would have been so thrown out if I had lived in such times ... My grandmother quite ruined herself for society by marrying a Canadian soldier ... always admired her for that.
@Samantha, The other book we read Desperate Duchesses actually does a better job of it but I think that's because the author is also a Shakespearean scholar. The whole chess thing was quite new to me. I think 9 rules while an awesomely sexy story breaks the rules too much for me even though I really liked it.So would I but I think I would have been Callie's maid or a bar wench. I might love the time period to death but no way in heck would I want to live there.
My main point before I got carried away was that a great romance for the period (well before actually) is Frances Burney's Evelina. The similarities in basic plot are great.
So the whole virginity thing got me thinking. I think the reason it is more powerful for the female to be a virgin is quite simple, it is MUCH more of an experience for the woman. There is bleeding, pain (which men don't get) and the risk of pregnancy, all of which lay heavily on the woman. The man, on the other hand, has probably been "helping himself out" as I call it, since he was in puberty. The female genitalia is much more mysterious (mainly because much is hidden) and there has always been a taboo about females "helping themselves out."If there was less at stake for women, or more at stake for men, I imagine the female virginity cliche would not be as deeply entrenched in our culture.
Hope that made some sense!
Samantha wrote: "Eva wrote: "And then the man would have to be a virgin? Not sure that's as impressive to a woman who's been around. Hmm... it does remind me of Kushiel's Dart."I'm not really sure why it is so pre..."
Ha! I love this post. Who knew you could use "rake" as a verb?
Melinda wrote: "So the whole virginity thing got me thinking. I think the reason it is more powerful for the female to be a virgin is quite simple, it is MUCH more of an experience for the woman. There is bleedi..."The bleeding and pain are highly overexaggerated, at least in my opinion.
Melinda wrote: "There is bleeding, pain"Really? I didn't have any blood, and barely any pain.
It seemed to me that in this book and DD, the quality that was most exciting to the men wasn't the virginity or inexperience of the women (which I agree, would be a weird thing to value), but instead, was that the women didn't seem to be artificial and seemed to readily and openly enjoy and engage in the sex. I guess I appreciated that, since the authors seemed to be saying that being present and engaged and turned on by each other is more important than experience or "technique."
Back on topic, I don't believe this has been suggested yet, but what about the words "List", "whiskey", "doily", and "Italian", or a reference to the Twins' mother screwing people over. With those alone, you'd probably get pretty schmammered after only a few chapters. :)Caitlin wrote: "Really? I didn't have any blood, and barely any pain."
I believe the pain is caused by the tearing of the hymen. If yours had torn or mostly torn prior to that, then it'd make sense that you wouldn't have had much pain. I'm not sure where the blood comes from... the torn hymen? Is anyone in here a Gyno?
Eva wrote: "Jade wrote: "Is anyone here a Gyno?"I'm not but check out this interesting and helpful thread on the subject: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/9..."
THANK YOU. Actually, following the link inside that link to the Scarleteen post about the hymen taught me a lot of things I didn't know. I did not bleed or feel any pain the first time, and kind of thought I just maybe didn't have a hymen or broke it and didn't notice or something. Sharing here. http://www.scarleteen.com/article/bod...
PointyEars42 wrote: "Samantha wrote: "I think I would find it interesting to have the rolls reversed in such a genre..."
Somebody order a Virgin!Hero? Unclaimed by Courtney Milan"
That's exactly what I thought when I read that! Although, Mark was kind of a virgin AND a pompous jerk. Least I thought so. And, if I remember, dont their rules switch a bit at some point in the book? Still, I appreciated Milan giving me a nice change. I liked the trope better in 9 Rules than I usually do, because Callie was the one continually approaching him, not the other way around.
Somebody order a Virgin!Hero? Unclaimed by Courtney Milan"
That's exactly what I thought when I read that! Although, Mark was kind of a virgin AND a pompous jerk. Least I thought so. And, if I remember, dont their rules switch a bit at some point in the book? Still, I appreciated Milan giving me a nice change. I liked the trope better in 9 Rules than I usually do, because Callie was the one continually approaching him, not the other way around.
