Mockingjay
discussion
The sad truth of Gale killing Primrose. Intentionally or a horrible mistake.
People are killing me by saying that Gale's moving to District 2 & not "staying with Katniss" is proof of guilt, or makes him a bad friend. 1. Katniss made it clear that she was never going to be with Gale romantically, so what was he supposed to do? Hang around and be the creepy guy who can't let it go?
2. Having your own life & interests doesn't make you a bad friend or bad person. Everyone has to grow up and follow their own path. Sometimes is takes you geographically far from people that you love, it doesn't mean that you don't really love them. By that reasoning, I guess my sister didn't love us because she joined the Army and moved far away from the rest of our family.
I mean, give the man a break. He wasn't a bad person, he was a person born and raised in a very bad situation, who made what he could of his life.
Janese wrote: "I beg to differ. Gale did not set in motion the events that lead to Prim's death. Those events were actually set in motion by Katniss herself by defying the Capitol, becoming the Mockingjay, and "leading" the revolution. And even furthermore because of course if Katniss was involved, her little sister would want to be involved as well. "Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Prim was selected to the hunger game. If Katniss would not have taken action, she would have died back then. But she took action and bought Prim some more years to live.
I also disagree with "Gale wasn't a bad person".
Jennifer wrote: "i have to kind of disagree. I feel Gale was more responsible for Prim's death then anything. Gale had a pretty high rank in 13's military. It was his idea and strategy to have the bombs go off in f..."
what rank exactly are you talking about? he didn't seem so high ranked to me...
what rank exactly are you talking about? he didn't seem so high ranked to me...
ℂᖺᗩᖇᒪἷᙓ ❀Gale❀ wrote: "If the US had created that double exploding bomb and dropped on the HQ of the corrupt leaders, they would be heroes."Wrong. That bomb is a war crime. That's not an opinion, that's fact. A war crimes tribunal would not agree with you.
To Jessica,Yes, she bought Prim some years, but she still set in motion events leading to revolt (the whole theme of Catching Fire), which led to Prim's death. I don't blame Katniss, I'm just saying that this is what set events in motion. But the bottom line is that Coin very deliberately had Prim killed so I don't understand this blame Gale viewpoint. It just seems irrational & emotional to me and I'm trying to look at it logically.
Jessica wrote: "I hope you heard of the term war crime? Just because it's war don't mean that you can do whatever you want. And it's not considered ok to harm civilians. There are bombs and bombs. Usually are bomb..."Apparently, it's not a war crime if you like the character. Or if you don't think it through.
Robert wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I hope you heard of the term war crime? Just because it's war don't mean that you can do whatever you want. And it's not considered ok to harm civilians. There are bombs and bombs. ..."
that depends on where you're being biased, even if you think it through...
that depends on where you're being biased, even if you think it through...
I admit to being biased toward facts.
Jessica wrote: "I hope you heard of the term war crime? Just because it's war don't mean that you can do whatever you want. And it's not considered ok to harm civilians. There are bombs and bombs. Usually are bomb..."
“I hope you heard of the term war crime? Just because it's war don't mean that you can do whatever you want. And it's not considered ok to harm civilians. There are bombs and bombs. Usually are bombs manufacturer and drop to harm the civilians the least possible. which is not the case with Gale's bomb, it's designed to do the opposite. “
Its not a crime to think of something. Gale thought of the idea, but he did not enact it, he did not invent it. He simply thought of it. If thinking was a crime, then we'd all be mindless imps.
“Can you blame the inventor? Since there are ethical rules that been ignored, so yes”
gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only thought so. Your confusing that. If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, but he didn't. coin and her ppl did. Yes it was unethical for him to think of something so devastating, but the fact is that no one thinks ethically all the time ( you can’t deny that!), especially not in war, when they are under the assumption that they are fighting for something worth fighting for.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone blame Albert Einstein for the atomic bomb?
“Gale even talk about using children to lure out the adults.”
He was using an analogy; if he did intend to kill children he wouldn't have hated or be fighting the capitol so passionately.
“People didn't like how the Capitol bombed the hospital in section 8.”
the capitol targeted ppl who had absolutely no fighting chance.
“This bomb was not designed to take out evil corrupt people. It made to take out people with compassion!!!”
during war, regardless of what moral ground you're standing on, its either life or death for you. The bomb was designed to take out as much of the enemy as possible. Yes, he used human compassion as a weakness, but he was aiming at the other soldiers who would be there at the time, not medics.
During the actual bombing, when the first bomb went off, it was coin's medics who went in not the capitol's, and the only person who was capable of detonating that bomb was coin, because she had gale's idea. So she was the one who bombed the children standing there, and she was responsible for the medic being sent out and being killed by the second bomb. Not gale.
Do he condemned that kind of actions that Coin use? Looking at Gales previous opinions and actions suggest the opposite, that he do support that kind of actions
gale was fresh from seeing his home and the ppl in it killed, what kind of opinion would you hold if you had experience that, esp. if you were given the opportunity to do something about it? Gale was naive, but understandably so.
The problem is that the Capitol isn't just Snow and the peacekeepers
from gale's POV they were part of the capitol. You're forgetting that these are the ppl who cheered while children fought each other till death; who placed bets on the winner, and who generally did not care about the other districts. This point is interesting, since the ppl in the capitol were basically brainwashed, but you're accepting that they were innocent. Gale thought up the IDEA of the bomb yet you say he is basically one evil person. The ppl in the capital celebrated the hunger games; for entertainment purposes! Gale was fighting to end the hunger games, end starvation, and all the other atrocities done by the capitol; he was misguided when it came to trusting coin; which meant that like the ppl in the capitol, he was somewhat brainwashed as well. So, in a way; you're contradicting yourself.
His way of viewing the Capitol resembling scary much the way the Nazis view the Jews during second world war.
Could you explain that?
If you want a change you can't sink to that level. You have to be better. Peeta understood this and so did Katniss. Gale just don't. I would have ended the friendship with Gale after the events in sector 2. Because I don't want friends like that. I glad that Katniss finally realized what kind of person Gale is. And I would be relieved too, to know that he was not coming back.
Peeta and gale are two different personalities; so it was obvious that they would react differently. so I don't get why the need to compare them.; honestly it just makes your argument look as though you're discussing from that whole love triangle point. Regardless, you're forgetting that gale was the one person she was able to depend on to take care of prim and her mother during the first hunger games. He was also the one who had ensured that prim had gotten to safety ( while katniss hadn't remembered her until the last minute) when the capitol bombed district 13.
gale wasn't completely evil, as you think, he was misguided; and even though he did come up with the idea, the fact is, that he didn't make the choice to create it and use it. Yes it was an unethical idea; but honestly, who thinks ethically all the time? Its a fact that humans do not do so. Katniss didn't, and she was the heroine.
The only thing gale is guilty of, is letting his emotions getting in the way of the choices he made.
“I hope you heard of the term war crime? Just because it's war don't mean that you can do whatever you want. And it's not considered ok to harm civilians. There are bombs and bombs. Usually are bombs manufacturer and drop to harm the civilians the least possible. which is not the case with Gale's bomb, it's designed to do the opposite. “
Its not a crime to think of something. Gale thought of the idea, but he did not enact it, he did not invent it. He simply thought of it. If thinking was a crime, then we'd all be mindless imps.
“Can you blame the inventor? Since there are ethical rules that been ignored, so yes”
gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only thought so. Your confusing that. If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, but he didn't. coin and her ppl did. Yes it was unethical for him to think of something so devastating, but the fact is that no one thinks ethically all the time ( you can’t deny that!), especially not in war, when they are under the assumption that they are fighting for something worth fighting for.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone blame Albert Einstein for the atomic bomb?
“Gale even talk about using children to lure out the adults.”
He was using an analogy; if he did intend to kill children he wouldn't have hated or be fighting the capitol so passionately.
“People didn't like how the Capitol bombed the hospital in section 8.”
the capitol targeted ppl who had absolutely no fighting chance.
“This bomb was not designed to take out evil corrupt people. It made to take out people with compassion!!!”
during war, regardless of what moral ground you're standing on, its either life or death for you. The bomb was designed to take out as much of the enemy as possible. Yes, he used human compassion as a weakness, but he was aiming at the other soldiers who would be there at the time, not medics.
During the actual bombing, when the first bomb went off, it was coin's medics who went in not the capitol's, and the only person who was capable of detonating that bomb was coin, because she had gale's idea. So she was the one who bombed the children standing there, and she was responsible for the medic being sent out and being killed by the second bomb. Not gale.
Do he condemned that kind of actions that Coin use? Looking at Gales previous opinions and actions suggest the opposite, that he do support that kind of actions
gale was fresh from seeing his home and the ppl in it killed, what kind of opinion would you hold if you had experience that, esp. if you were given the opportunity to do something about it? Gale was naive, but understandably so.
The problem is that the Capitol isn't just Snow and the peacekeepers
from gale's POV they were part of the capitol. You're forgetting that these are the ppl who cheered while children fought each other till death; who placed bets on the winner, and who generally did not care about the other districts. This point is interesting, since the ppl in the capitol were basically brainwashed, but you're accepting that they were innocent. Gale thought up the IDEA of the bomb yet you say he is basically one evil person. The ppl in the capital celebrated the hunger games; for entertainment purposes! Gale was fighting to end the hunger games, end starvation, and all the other atrocities done by the capitol; he was misguided when it came to trusting coin; which meant that like the ppl in the capitol, he was somewhat brainwashed as well. So, in a way; you're contradicting yourself.
His way of viewing the Capitol resembling scary much the way the Nazis view the Jews during second world war.
Could you explain that?
If you want a change you can't sink to that level. You have to be better. Peeta understood this and so did Katniss. Gale just don't. I would have ended the friendship with Gale after the events in sector 2. Because I don't want friends like that. I glad that Katniss finally realized what kind of person Gale is. And I would be relieved too, to know that he was not coming back.
Peeta and gale are two different personalities; so it was obvious that they would react differently. so I don't get why the need to compare them.; honestly it just makes your argument look as though you're discussing from that whole love triangle point. Regardless, you're forgetting that gale was the one person she was able to depend on to take care of prim and her mother during the first hunger games. He was also the one who had ensured that prim had gotten to safety ( while katniss hadn't remembered her until the last minute) when the capitol bombed district 13.
gale wasn't completely evil, as you think, he was misguided; and even though he did come up with the idea, the fact is, that he didn't make the choice to create it and use it. Yes it was an unethical idea; but honestly, who thinks ethically all the time? Its a fact that humans do not do so. Katniss didn't, and she was the heroine.
The only thing gale is guilty of, is letting his emotions getting in the way of the choices he made.
Janese wrote: "To Jessica,
Yes, she bought Prim some years, but she still set in motion events leading to revolt (the whole theme of Catching Fire), which led to Prim's death. I don't blame Katniss, I'm just sayi..."
yeah, i don't get it either. i think that ppl are looking at only certain aspects of his character rather than looking at him as a whole in an unbiased manner.
Yes, she bought Prim some years, but she still set in motion events leading to revolt (the whole theme of Catching Fire), which led to Prim's death. I don't blame Katniss, I'm just sayi..."
yeah, i don't get it either. i think that ppl are looking at only certain aspects of his character rather than looking at him as a whole in an unbiased manner.
Janese wrote: "To Jessica,Yes, she bought Prim some years, but she still set in motion events leading to revolt (the whole theme of Catching Fire), which led to Prim's death. I don't blame Katniss, I'm just sayi..."
I generally think the Capitol handel the situation really bad. They just keep pushing it. Her intention was never to start a revolt, but the Capitol left her no choice. Their cruelty just backfire on them self and fueled the rebellion.
Robert wrote: "ℂᖺᗩᖇᒪἷᙓ ❀Gale❀ wrote: "If the US had created that double exploding bomb and dropped on the HQ of the corrupt leaders, they would be heroes."Wrong. That bomb is a war crime. That's not an opinion,..."
It's a fact is it? You know for sure they have such things as war crimes in the world the book is set?
rawr? wrote: "gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only thought so. Your confusing that. If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, but he didn't. coin and her ppl did. Yes it was unethical for him to think of something so devastating, but the fact is that no one thinks ethically all the time ( you can’t deny that!), especially not in war, when they are under the assumption that they are fighting for something worth fighting for.""Gale must have been released from the hospital this morning as well, because I find him in one of the research rooms with Beetee. They're immersed, heads bent over a drawing, taking a measurement. Versions of the picture litter the table and floor. Tacked on the corkboard wall and occupying several computer screens are other designs of some sort." Chapter 13 ca p. 215
"I know Gale's been down here working with Beetee a lot, but I assumed they were messing around with bows and guns." Chapter 13 ca p. 215
"This is what they've been doing. Taking the fundamental ideas behind Gale's traps and adapting them into weapons against humans. Bombs mostly. It's less about the mechanics of the traps than the psychology behind them." Chapter 13 ca p. 216
Originally, Gale offered to come with me to 2, but I could see I was tearing him away from his work with Beetee. Chapter 14 ca p. 229
Yeah it was just an Idea from Gale... (Hope you caught the irony in my words).
"Inventing means creating"
If this don't qualify as creating what does?
"If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
Jessica wrote: "rawr? wrote: "gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only though...""If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
wow, how people agree on things that are so untrue.
Jessica wrote: "rawr? wrote: "gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only though..."
It's less about the mechanics of the traps than the psychology behind them." Chapter 13 ca p. 216
that is called strategy, the psychological aspect of it....there is always the need for strategy when dealing with things such as warfare; and gale had the ability to look at things from that point of view; where as beetee was the inventor. ('cause you know, he was from that district that dealt with electronic etc, can't remember which one exactly)regardless, gale was the strategist, beetee the inventor. beetee took gale's ideas and adapted it. ( and coin was the one who made the decision to use it, so how exactly should either one be held responsible for the decisions made by coin?)anyway, yes, gale's input were basically ideas. ( if you go through the previous books, you'd see katniss mentioning that gale was teh traps guy, he was good with that because he understood how to do it. also there is a part in the mockingjay where beetee commented that he was good at thinking like a prey, which is done in strategy planning for warfare)
also all your quotes simply state that gale was helping beetee; and just in case your going to say that he shouldn't have been doing that, rememeber that the capitol had bombs as well and were not afraid to use them.
so just out of curiousity, if you were in such a position, and were good at creating traps, would you keep your effective ideas to yourself, or would you share it? just remember that by sharing the ideas, there would have been a quicker end to the war, and more of your fellow soliders surviving.
also, i mentioned that gale himself was under emotional stress from seeing his hime be bombed among other things and that the character was simply offering up ideas because he wanted to do something.
also, even if gale did create/invent the bomb, why is he responsible? coin was the one who was in charge. she made that decision. how could gale be held responsible for the decision of others? esp. when he was not involved in the decision making process? really i'm just confused about that.
"If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
i said IF, i do not hold the opinion that he did, so i'm a bit confused about what we agree on.
@Daniel (new) - Jessica wrote: "rawr? wrote: "gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only though..."
"If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
wow, how people agree on things that are so untrue.
i'm confused... :/
@robert
I admit to being biased toward facts
thats interesting on 2 basis : 1) you assume that whoever doesn't agree with you likes gale (that not a fact, i'm sure of it; also that really annoys me) 2) gale could not control what was done by the rebels because he was not in charge of them. he could not prevent them from using it, so how would he be committing a war crime? (please explain that fact) yes he thought of it, yes it was an unethical thought, but if doing so a crime, everyone is guilty and should be locked up somewhere, because everyone has unethical thoughts and ideas.
It's less about the mechanics of the traps than the psychology behind them." Chapter 13 ca p. 216
that is called strategy, the psychological aspect of it....there is always the need for strategy when dealing with things such as warfare; and gale had the ability to look at things from that point of view; where as beetee was the inventor. ('cause you know, he was from that district that dealt with electronic etc, can't remember which one exactly)regardless, gale was the strategist, beetee the inventor. beetee took gale's ideas and adapted it. ( and coin was the one who made the decision to use it, so how exactly should either one be held responsible for the decisions made by coin?)anyway, yes, gale's input were basically ideas. ( if you go through the previous books, you'd see katniss mentioning that gale was teh traps guy, he was good with that because he understood how to do it. also there is a part in the mockingjay where beetee commented that he was good at thinking like a prey, which is done in strategy planning for warfare)
also all your quotes simply state that gale was helping beetee; and just in case your going to say that he shouldn't have been doing that, rememeber that the capitol had bombs as well and were not afraid to use them.
so just out of curiousity, if you were in such a position, and were good at creating traps, would you keep your effective ideas to yourself, or would you share it? just remember that by sharing the ideas, there would have been a quicker end to the war, and more of your fellow soliders surviving.
also, i mentioned that gale himself was under emotional stress from seeing his hime be bombed among other things and that the character was simply offering up ideas because he wanted to do something.
also, even if gale did create/invent the bomb, why is he responsible? coin was the one who was in charge. she made that decision. how could gale be held responsible for the decision of others? esp. when he was not involved in the decision making process? really i'm just confused about that.
"If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
i said IF, i do not hold the opinion that he did, so i'm a bit confused about what we agree on.
@Daniel (new) - Jessica wrote: "rawr? wrote: "gale didn't invent the bomb, he came up with the idea, but did not invent it. Inventing means creating, and he wasn't even sure that his bomb was the one that was used; he only though..."
"If gale did invent/create it , he would have been responsible, "
Glad that we agree on something.
wow, how people agree on things that are so untrue.
i'm confused... :/
@robert
I admit to being biased toward facts
thats interesting on 2 basis : 1) you assume that whoever doesn't agree with you likes gale (that not a fact, i'm sure of it; also that really annoys me) 2) gale could not control what was done by the rebels because he was not in charge of them. he could not prevent them from using it, so how would he be committing a war crime? (please explain that fact) yes he thought of it, yes it was an unethical thought, but if doing so a crime, everyone is guilty and should be locked up somewhere, because everyone has unethical thoughts and ideas.
I'm not doing this any longer.You have your beliefs, and I have mine.
Robert wrote: "Daniel wrote: "He did not set in motion the events that lead to her death. That would be like placing blame on the makers of guns for all the deaths the guns bring. It's just ridiculous. He was jus..."Yes, he did. The analogy between Gale's bomb and the gun doesn't work. Using a gun to shoot people in war is not a war crime. Using Gale's bomb was a war crime. Since it could only be used for a war crime, designing and making it is also a war crime
You are an idiotic person. It is the same shit. Your stupidity is giving me a headache. I don't know how people could be as stupid as you
Ever hear the comment "beating a dead horse?" We could argue this in circles forever. To each their own. Please be nice everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I've enjoyed this discussion but feel I have spoke my piece. "May the odds be..forever in your favor."
It is sad that people think that Gale gets off the hook because he didn't know that Prim specifically would be there. He knew his trap would be used to kill other innocent people, and just because Suzanne Collins doesn't tell us their names does not mean that their lives are less valuable than Prim's. That's like saying it would be wrong to drop an atomic bomb on my neighbor's house, but not on a stranger's.Coin is also very much to blame. She is 100% culpable in the murder of all those innocent people. Better question, was it okay for Katniss to murder Coin in cold blood? As a beloved public figure, Katniss could have lead a peaceful revolution to dispose of Coin and have a fair trial to prove her guilt and give her a fair sentencing. Instead Katniss became just like all the violent immoral authority figures in her world and used cold hard killing as a tool to get the peace that they desire. Horribly offensive.
Back to the point, he invented it for the sole purpose of killing innocent people for political gain! It doesn't matter whether it was Prim or a no name. In creating the bomb Gale showed a complete disregard for human life. Whether he wanted to kill innocent Capital medics or innocent 13 medics, Gale thinks it is okay to kill the innocent. This is not much different from sending two dozen children into the arena once a year in order to avoid a violent revolution.
Gale is a violent anarchist that will use whatever means necessary to overthrow an oppressive government, even murdering innocent people.
Read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. There is another way. Despite what Collins wants you to believe there are alternatives to violence.
Jessica wrote: "Janese wrote: "To Jessica,Yes, she bought Prim some years, but she still set in motion events leading to revolt (the whole theme of Catching Fire), which led to Prim's death. I don't blame Katniss..."
Buy we aren't discussing intentions. If so, there would be bo discussion because no one can honestly say that Gale intended for Prim to die.
Jacksonnickd, I apologise if this has already been covered (didn't want to read all 129 messages) but Gale didn't specifically know it would be used to hurt civilians did he? I think his idea was to use it on a group of capitol soldiers, and when help came, to take them out. I think the idea was to target medics rather than many groups of soldiers, lets face it, in any war there are so many soldiers they are almost dispensible, whilst good medics are hard to come by and take years and years of training. I personally don't find Gale to be the reason for the bombing, I think his idea was taken WAAAYYY out of context by the rebel person (it was some months ago I read the books and I forgot the names!) who used it in a way it was never intended, to hurt civilians.Just my 2 cents =D
"Gale is a violent anarchist that will use whatever means necessary to overthrow an oppressive government, even murdering innocent people."
I also disagree with this actually, I mean, isn't the whole point of the rebellion to prevent an oppressive government murdering innocent people? seems counter productive to go and murder innocent people yourself. Plus if I remember rightly Gale was held hostage by the Capitol's soldiers at the time the bomb went off and was with Katniss up until that point? how could he have planted it?
On a different note, can anyone explain to me how these rebel civilians actually made it to the area that got bombed? considering the rebel soldiers were fighting their way through, how did Coin get District 13 civilians there before soldiers? and why/how were they locked up and who by? that never did made any sense to me whatsoever. or maybe I just mis-remember the story =D
"Gale is a violent anarchist that will use whatever means necessary to overthrow an oppressive government, even murdering innocent people."Andy wrote: I also disagree with this actually, I mean, isn't the whole point of the rebellion to prevent an oppressive government murdering innocent people? seems counter productive to go and murder innocent people yourself."
The thing is that I think that Gale is counter productive. I'm not naive and think you can win a war without any innocent people getting hurt or to think that Gale was in a position where he could be directly involved or affect the event with the bombing of the children. But there is a line that shouldn't be cross. I just feel that Gale steps over the line over and over agin through the whole book. We are some people that's is trying to point out that Gale is steping to far and that he is getting counter productive.
thats why I changed to team Peeta
but think of it from a different perspective, your Gale, and the person you love, Katniss, is, while not the leader, shes the spearhead behind a rebel group... that puts her at a rather high level of risk, as proved by the fact the rebels never want to let her out. You know that once the war is over and done with, Katniss will be safe, or as safe as she'll ever be. Would you not go to any extreme to save her? Not saying its right, but if it was the woman I loved, and she was at risk every single day from every inconceivable angle, I'd do what I could to make her as safe as possible, if it meant going against other peoples 'ethics' then so be it. =D I'm an opinionated person =P
Daniel, have your fit if you want. I've given you nothing but facts. I've made mincemeat out of your position. I can only laugh at you calling me an idiot. But that's what I get for casting pearls before swine.
Let us look at the facts. A gun or a bomb can be used for legal or illegal purposes, thus producing such a gun or a bomb is not a war crime. The tactic of using a bomb to lure people in to help, and then detonating a second bomb to kill those who come in to help is a war crime. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. The creation of a device which could only be used for war crimes is itself a war crime. It is a war crime even if the targets are soliders. It targets medics, which is a war crime. I'm a veteran, and I know that a war crime is still a war crime, regardless of who does it. If I made thumbscrews, it would be not much of a defense that I didn't turn the screws myself.Just the basic tactic makes it a war crime. Targeting civilians, and especially children, would increase the severity of the war crime, but it is still a war crime. Let us imagine that the book is used as evidence in a war crimes tribunal. His description of how this bomb would work would be damning evidence showing that it wasn't just meant to be targeted as soldiers, but at civilians and children. There's no evidence that Gale even considered that this would be used only against military targets, it seems clear that he considers everyone in the capitol, and equally deserving of death.
He didn't just think of the idea, he and Beete worked together to create it. We don't know if the parachutes were his idea or if he even knew about them. If he did, that would make it even more serious. Gale would have been in serious trouble if he was to come before a war crimes tribunal.
At this hypothetical war crimes tribunal, his would have some defenses. He's young, was filled with rage and was taken advantage of by Coin. He was in an environment where leadership would not tell him no. People do awful things were such awful things are encouraged, and no one dares say no. He could throw himself at the mercy of the court and have a good chance.
I don't think he's a monster, but by the end of the book, I think Gale knows what he did was wrong.
I'm unsubscribing from this thread. It's clear facts and logic are wasted.
Robert wrote: "Daniel, have your fit if you want. I've given you nothing but facts. I've made mincemeat out of your position. I can only laugh at you calling me an idiot. But that's what I get for casting pearls ..."Your logic is invalid and ridiculous. Creating something to harm people and using it are two different things. You can not place blame on the inventor for the actions of another.
Where are these fact's you speak of? You have only stated opinions. People make weapons off all kinds for every military for the sole purpose of harming others. When someone takes one of those weapons and uses it for a war crime, who get's blamed? The inventor? No they don't. If they did, Scientist,engineers,etc, all around the world, would be committing war crimes.
So laugh all you want, it only makes you more idiotic.
okay, for everyone who says that the creation of the bomb was a war crime, you migth want to read up on on what you're saying. in the sites i wnet through, it stated that the actual actions, not the mere creation ( or whatever input gale had) is a war crime.
anything can be created; either good or bad, but its always up to the individual to use it (and how they use it), and therefore, individual using it should be held responsible for its out come.
anything can be created; either good or bad, but its always up to the individual to use it (and how they use it), and therefore, individual using it should be held responsible for its out come.
Honestly, I don't think it was intentional because I don't think Gale knew that Prim would be there when the bombs went off. And another thing is, Gale would NEVER hurt Katniss' sister, he was even the one who saved Prim in District 13 before the doors closed. But, I don't know, maybe he made the bombs knowing exactly what would happen and who would be there. The only answer is our imagination. So many different opinions....
I believe he didn't know it would kill Prim. Besides he once loved Katniss, so why would he intentionally kill her sister? I don't think he even thought Prim would be out there trying to save lives. I mean, can you imagine a child being thrown out in the middle of a war to save other children? It's not like he threw the bomb at her.Well, that's just my opinion.
Yes, Gale may have created the bomb but it was obviously Pres. Coin who ordered the bombs dropped on HER OWN PEOPLE.Pres. Coin has a TWISTED MIND and probably didn't tell the people who dropped the bombs who it really was that they were dropping said bombs on.Or perhaps the bomb droppers were in on it with Pres. Coin and it's all just a big counter rebellion?
♒ ✯ɐɯıʇɐɟ✯ ╰☆╮ wrote: "I believe he didn't know it would kill Prim. Besides he once loved Katniss, so why would he intentionally kill her sister? I don't think he even thought Prim would be out there trying to save lives..."That's exactly what I thought!
Trina wrote: "I just finished re-reading this book last week. Gale helped create the way the bombs were used. Through the book he is talking with Beetee about thinking like your prey. The tactic used at the end ..."Couldn't have said it better myself. Love what you had to say.
"Ok class i need to step out for a second, tlk amungst yourself" my teacher said. I was in the middle of this book and was dying to read more of it, so i made the mistake of taking it out to read. 'And then the rest of the bombs explode'
i read that sentance and burt into tears just as my teacher walked back in the room. It was so embarrising! Everyone wanted to know why i was crying (i told them i was at the sad part of thr book but i was the only one reading it at the time so i couldnt spoil it for them)
As for the disscusion, YES i think he should take a big part of the blame for killing many children including prim, but what really makes me mad is thT he expects katniss to forgive him and appologize! If anyone should be apologizing its him
Has anyone been reminded of the fact that Prim wasn't even suppose to be there to begin with. It had been stated that she hadn't even been the appropriate age to have been there and doing what she was doing. In the end it was all a set up and that fact actually does prove that whether Gale knew it was going to be used on them or not he probably assumed Prim's age was going to keep her out of it regardless. Personally I think Collins cheapened her own series with that little plot twist because with killing Prim I found myself thinking well thank gods Katniss doesn't go Columbine anyway since keeping Prim alive was how this whole damn thing got started to begin with. Without her volunteering to save Prim the in the first place then Katniss wouldn't have gone to the games and this whole thing wouldn't have gone down to begin with.
Genevieve wrote: "Has anyone been reminded of the fact that Prim wasn't even suppose to be there to begin with. It had been stated that she hadn't even been the appropriate age to have been there and doing what she ..."Even so, everyone would have a hard time getting her to stay. Like katniss said, she was maturing and she wanted to be a help in honour of her sister! Im just glad she would know katniss was still alive before she died
Genevieve wrote: "Has anyone been reminded of the fact that Prim wasn't even suppose to be there to begin with. It had been stated that she hadn't even been the appropriate age to have been there and doing what she ..."I didn't forget I just never thought of it that way. That makes it even worse, you're so right.
deffo horrid mistake because he wuld never do that to katniss intentionally because it would crush her and well we all know it did!
it was awfull, who sends a what 12 year old girl was it ? out into a war zone as a medic not matter how good she is as a nurse she cant fight and the mockingjay is her sister so the capitol coul of targeted her if gales bombs didnt do it first
Okay, and the guys who create guns are the ones that are to blame when people use them against each other. Okay. Good logic you have going there. Let me know how it works out for you in life.
Taylor wrote: "Okay, and the guys who create guns are the ones that are to blame when people use them against each other. Okay. Good logic you have going there. Let me know how it works out for you in life."i never said that i just said that they shouldn't of sent prim out in the first place and that i didn't think Gail would of done that to katniss or prim for that matter because Gail saw prim as a little sister.
Gale didn't kill Prim! Did he? I didn't think so that's not what I thought happened.
Sam wrote: "I think that he was the one with the idea. The double bomb thing. But he thought it would be used on the Capitol. It was used on the rebels. I'm sure he didn't drop the bombs, so you can't say if h..."
BRAVO SAM!
BRAVO SAM!
Elizabeth wrote: "Taylor wrote: "Okay, and the guys who create guns are the ones that are to blame when people use them against each other. Okay. Good logic you have going there. Let me know how it works out for you..."And that's exactly what I said, she wasn't legally old enough to be there to begin with. So really it was Coin setting Gale up to take the backlash from Katniss.
I hope everyone who said that he killed prim intentionally knows that they think that partly because they are obviously "team peeta"If peeta was the one that made the bombs everyone would be like "oh that's okay peeta I still love u <3"
(btw I'm not "team gale" bcuz my heart belongs to finnick)
The whole thing is so tragic! I don't think that Gale has any direct responsibility with Prim's death. After all, Gale worked so hard to rescue her when the Capital bombed District 13. I think part of what makes it so difficult for Katniss to move on is his own encouragement of the philosophy that it is okay to kill innocents/unarmed for the right cause. Just like "the Nut." Gale wanted to simply kill everyone inside. Since this was the same philosophy that killed Prim, I can see it would be difficult to for Katniss to believe him.
i think Gale was responsible because he was Jealous of Peeta and also seriously screwed up.
Just kidding, IT WAS ALMA! I'm glad Katniss killed her
I don't think Gale killed Prim intentionally, but it was his idea for bomb. It was all Coin's idea to end war fast, which is the main reason I hate her.
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I think it is more accurate to compare Gales bomb to depleted uranium bullets than to a normal gun. Depleted uranium bullets are radioactive and been used by US solders and others. I have seen pictures of the abnormalities caused from the radiation and they are not pretty. The worst affected are the children in Iraq. But it doesn't stop there. Allies and soldier have among other things develop cancer and leukemia. A lot of people has died before their time, from the radiation. This is just the soldiers and I said the worst affected are the children in Iraq. Is it ok to use these weapons in war? No it's not. Should the soldiers be blamed for using depleted uranium bullets? No, it isn't really there fault. Can you blame the inventor? Since there are ethical rules that been ignored, so yes. Can you blame the leaders for it, and again yes.
Back to Gale's bomb. Are the ethical rules that should have been followed? It should be. People didn't like how the Capitol bombed the hospital in section 8. How different are Gales bomb? The second blas was designed to take out wounded people and medical team. And this is just as bad. Katniss even expressed her dislike to the idea, which just made Gale angry at her. And dose it stop there? No, Gale even talk about using children to lure out the adults. "Endangering offspring in order to draw in the actual desired target, the parent" Chapter 13 ca p. 216 Mockingjay. They were still talking about animals but that's kind of how Gale view the Capitol. And then we have the events in sector 2. Where Gale was prepared to suffocate allies to destroy the military base. With other words, he do support friendly fire if it will help to achieve the goal.
Gale didn't kill Prime. He just designed a bomb that target poeple like Prime. "At some point, Gale and Beetee left the wilderness behind and focused on more human impulses. Like compassion. A bomb explodes. Time is allowed for people to rush to the aid of the wounded. Then a second, more powerful bomb kills them as well." Chapter 13 ca p. 216. This bomb was not designed to take out evil corrupt people. It made to take out people with compassion!!!
Do he condemned that kind of actions that Coin use? Looking at Gales previous opinions and actions suggest the opposite, that he do support that kind of actions. Which also raise the question if it would have matter if Gale was informed or not. It been so many similar situations where he has expressed his support. Why would this be different? Not the fact that Prim being there but the bombing of the children. To him it would only been revenge for all the years of the hunger game.
"The bomb Gale had a part in was meant to kill the Capitol." Finally are we agreeing on something. The problem is that the Capitol isn't just Snow and the peacekeepers. The capitol is also people, men, women and children. People like Katniss prep team. And I don't view it as okej to bomb them. And can you honestly not see how corrupt Gale is? His way of viewing the Capitol resembling scary much the way the Nazis view the Jews during second world war. There is a line that should not be crossed. If you are not better than the enemies you are fighting. Then it is really no point in defeating the enemy. You will just replace bad leaders with equally bad or even worse leaders. This is what happened in Iran. Things was bad so the started a revolution. But things only went from bad to worse.
If you want a change you can't sink to that level. You have to be better. Peeta understood this and so did Katniss. Gale just don't. I would have ended the friendship with Gale after the events in sector 2. Because I don't want friends like that. I glad that Katniss finally realized what kind of person Gale is. And I would be relieved too, to know that he was not coming back.