The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
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Can a translation be as good as the original?
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Rajuda
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Jul 19, 2012 03:14AM
As I race to finish this bestseller published originally in Swedish and translated into English, what amazes me is that at no stage did I feel I was reading Stieg Larsson's story in Reg Keeland's words! Can you think of a parallel?
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Did you read it in swedish and in english?In my experience a good translation never gives you the feeling of reading a translated text. Nonetheless translating is always - at least partially - interpretating and thus a translated book is always the translators interpretation of the original.
agata wrote: "Did you read it in swedish and in english?In my experience a good translation never gives you the feeling of reading a translated text. Nonetheless translating is always - at least partially - int..."
True. Yet, when I was reading the English translation of the book, I wondered what a good story-teller Reg Keeland was, and why he was not writing a book in English himself?
D R wrote: "... I wondered what a good story-teller Reg Keeland was..."A good translation can be an art in itself. Although both writing and translating are ultimately about story telling, they demand different kinds of creativity. While I enjoyed working as a translator I could never write a story by myself.
Not to really bring religion into this discussion, but how many different ways has the Bible been translated, and most people seem to still get the main message. Don't know if the Swedish version of this book moved any faster than the English, but it was still slow paced for me.
Well, I believe that it really depends on the person who is doing the translation of the novel. Just like what Agate said "A good translation can be an art in itself", but I don't think that this applies to the bible because the bible is not the same as other novels, I don’t even think that the bible is a novel. Because the bible has one message and it is the same all the time everywhere to everyone (or supposed to), but since this is not a religious discussion let just leave it at that. However, a novel is different and as most of you already know there are many novels in existence each with its own story, history, message, and whatnot, and each can be differently interpreted. For this reason, I think that a novel is at its best when it’s read in the original form. Unfortunately, not many of us are able to do that so a translated version will have to do that. Lastly, I also asked this question to a brilliant teacher of mine some time ago and this is what he said “translating a novel is like taking a song that was written for a piano and playing it on a violin. It can be good but not as good as what it was intended to be”
Y.K.W wrote: "...translating a novel is like taking a song that was written for a piano and playing it on a violin..."I really like that. A great comparison.
I think it depends on the translator skill. I don't really read books translated in my native language because most of the time, it doesn't seem right.Now I only read English books.
Now as for TGWTDT, I think the translator has done a great job. Still I were able to speak Swedish, I'd read the Swedish version.
Absolutely enlightening! And I think Y.K.W's teacher drove home the point when he said '...translating a novel is like taking a song that was written for a piano and playing it on a violin...".Still I believe, a translator also needs to be a good story teller. While he could be missing out on the original flavour, I am sure he could with above average narrative skills, turn out the translation into a reader's delight. That is what Reg Keeland has achieved.
agata wrote: "D R wrote: "... I wondered what a good story-teller Reg Keeland was..."A good translation can be an art in itself. Although both writing and translating are ultimately about story telling, they d..."
Being a translator myself, I agree with you whole- heartedly. Also, it depends on the degree of interpretation liberty granted to the translator by the author and/or publisher.
D R wrote: "As I race to finish this bestseller published originally in Swedish and translated into English, what amazes me is that at no stage did I feel I was reading Stieg Larsson's story in Reg Keeland's w..."Murakami translations are incredible as are Pamuks. We will never know how good they are really though unless you are bilingual. Pamuk got the nobel prize and I doubt it was based on what he wrote in Turkish. I could be wrong
Liam wrote: "Pamuk got the nobel prize and I doubt it was based on what he wrote in Turkish. I could be wrong..."I never thought about that, but the committee members read the works of the nominees mostly as translations...
agata wrote: "I never thought about that, but the committee members read the works of the nominees..."I have read Michail Sholokhov's 'Tikhiy Don' (And Quiet Flows the Don tr. by Stephen Garry), Gabriel Márquez's 'Cien años de soledad' (One Hundred Years of Solitude tr. by Gregory Rabassa), and Günter Grass's 'Die Blechtrommel' (The Tin Drum tr. by Ralph Manheim).
An indeterminable share of the credit for the Nobel prizes as well as universal acclaim these books got, ought to go to the translators. But the limelight almost always eludes them. Time this changes!
I have heard that the translated English in the Asterix books is so good that in parts it is actually better than the original French writing.The pictures remain as good in either language though!
Halldor Laxness and his German translator Fritz Not hardt are that rare example of an absolute symbiosis - Halldor Laxness even insisted on sharing literary awards with him.
I'm going to disagree a bit - I felt that this translation, into British English and not American, was a bit awkward in places. And I'm one who prefers suspense novelists like Canning, Francis, Harling, and Shute - all fine writers from the UK. I simply felt in a few places that the translator was strugging to perform an exact, word-for-word translation from Swedish to English, and that in some places he simply missed the mark.
Paul wrote: "I'm going to disagree a bit - I felt that this translation, into British English and not American, was a bit awkward in places. And I'm one who prefers suspense novelists like Canning, Francis, Har..."Yes, I won't deny that the translation was suspect at a few places. But I will not hold it against Steven Murray, particularly after reading his following response:
'Basically I took my real name off the books because of a misunderstanding with the British publisher, who made many changes to my translation that I did not agree with; due to a scheduling snafu, they could not allow me enough time to check over all these changes before going to press, so to protect my reputation for accuracy in translation I was forced to use a pseudonym.'
And that pseudonym was Reg Keeland!
Yeah, those pesky editors...
Something is always lost in translation because certain words or concepts simply cannot be translated; however, since The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo is not a deep book or a classic not much was lost. For a book of ideas such as War and Peace or the Odyssey, a skilled translator is needed. Some of the best translators are writers or poets, themselves e.g. John Ciardi's translation of the Divine Comedy.
This thread makes me wonder which translation I should read. I can't speak Swedish, that's for sure.I wonder if the German translation is more accurate than the English translation? Sure, they probably added polite forms of adress in the German version that exist in Swedish but which they don't use ... but meh. I'm struggling. /: (I'm perfectly fine reading books in either language.)
Edit: a short research shows that the English translations are still better than the German translation. So, the American English translation it is?
Not always... There are images and ideas that are better explained by the author in his/her own language. If the translator is able to capture those moments through his/her words - he/she technically doesn't alter the content (or emotions) making the translation as good as the original one.
I don't dispute that 'something is always lost in translation'. But, what about 'Self-Translation'? Even with 'linguistic ambidexterity', has any writer been able to deliver in another language wholly and truly what he conceived in his mother tongue?
you could look at someone like James Thompson who also writes Nordic Noir books - he grew up in the US and has lived in Finland for 12 years. His first books were published in finnish (if that is the correct term for their language), but his newer stuff he writes in both english and finnish because it makes it easier on getting translations done - doesnt' have to have something translated to a base language before being translated to another one, which aids in the publishing process
Being only fluent in one language, and I can't be the only one, I can't tell if the book is better in Swedish or in English. I know that I don't feel I missed anything, aside from understanding the tricky currency conversions and a bit of trouble with distances-not being familiar with Sweden. I loved the books.
D R wrote: "Even with 'linguistic ambidexterity', has any writer been able to deliver in another language wholly and truly what he conceived in his mother tongue?..."The language we speak influences the way we think, the way we perceive the world. Two different languages create two different world views. Therefore there is no way to "wholly and truly" express the same thing in different languages.
It all depends. Translations often lose the feel of the book and can really ruin a good read, but when the book is translated well like Larsson's books and Battle Royale then the experience is perfect. I find that books translated by a person whose first language is whatever the book is but they speak fluent English are the best. They not only keep the spirit of the translated piece but uses English words that fit the story and doesn't sound too clumsy.
its interesting that people say what a good translation Larsson's books were, when the translator himself wasn't happy with how they turned out and used a pseudonym to ensure that these works weren't directly attributed to his other name
Reg Keeland's quote puts in right perspective, the process of translation and its inherent constraints. The significant thing to admire and appreciate is the great work translators are doing in carrying forward some of the best writings that would otherwise be lost to the world.
I just finished reading the second book, 'The Girl Who Played With Fire' in the Stieg Larsson trilogy. Not withstanding some of the reservations expressed here, let me admit that I enjoyed reading it. At no stage was I reminded of the fact that the book in my hand was a translation.
Brittany wrote: "It all depends. Translations often lose the feel of the book and can really ruin a good read, but when the book is translated well like Larsson's books and Battle Royale then the experience is perf..."agreed
Y.K.W wrote: "...translating a novel is like taking a song that was written for a piano and playing it on a violin..."
That's truly difficult. I've done that before, and it's hard to take account for the fact that the melody can come from both treble and bass clef lines, what each hand is playing. Often notes are stacked up on each other in one line. Sometimes the melody comes out exactly right; sometimes it doesn't.
It works the same way for languages. Each language has its nuances. Perhaps the words strung together as they are don't quite literally mean what was meant. Perhaps one word has different meanings, but they all seem to be important in its usage. Perhaps the original choice of words was for the lyrical sound of the original language. Translations have these difficulties.
All in all, a great comparison.
That's truly difficult. I've done that before, and it's hard to take account for the fact that the melody can come from both treble and bass clef lines, what each hand is playing. Often notes are stacked up on each other in one line. Sometimes the melody comes out exactly right; sometimes it doesn't.
It works the same way for languages. Each language has its nuances. Perhaps the words strung together as they are don't quite literally mean what was meant. Perhaps one word has different meanings, but they all seem to be important in its usage. Perhaps the original choice of words was for the lyrical sound of the original language. Translations have these difficulties.
All in all, a great comparison.
I think it depends on the book.The great classics - Anna Karenina, Crime & Punishment etc - I feel DO lose something in translation, and somehow you can tell they are a translation when you read them.
But with pop fiction I don't think it makes much difference... the writing isn't complex enough to matter (which I feel Girl With The Dragon Tattoo falls into.)
I think that mainly it depends on person who translates a book and also it depends on the book. Once i read translated book, i realy liked that version, i was like wow the book is well translated, i was thankfull for the translator of the book, good job! In spite of this i wanted to read the original one (The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo) maybe i was not satisfied enough..
I agree with Salo. Sometimes a translation is a work of art all in itself, so it depends on the translator. I don't know Swedish, so can't comment on Dragon Tatoo specifically, but I read all of Isabel Allende's works through Paula in both English and Spanish and felt her translator did an excellent job of capturing not only the nuances of meaning, but the overall spirit of the work. Although some complain about the writing style of Tatoo and its sequels, I did enjoy them a lot. Sometimes the freshness of plot and character development overshadows the prose sufficiently that the specifics of translation are less important. That might be the case with Tatoo.
I don't believe that the translation is ever as good as the original language. I did enjoy the English books and I even enjoyed the movies but they were the original Swedish. I think I may have enjoyed the actual work more by degrees.
Lost in translation! This has become conventional wisdom, hasn't it? That the original version is always better than the translated one. But there are cases where the reverse can happen: for example, Conrad's novels lost nothing in their French translation (done originally by André Ruyters) and indeed may have gained something...One thing for sure, the translated work ensured that Conrad became a household word in France!What if we just accept that the two versions are really two different products (yes, nuances often can't be rendered right)? If we accept that, then all we need do is judge the work on its actual merits. Did you enjoy the novel, yes? Then it's ok, it's a good book, period.
I read Stieg Larsson in Italian and enjoyed him tremendously...for what it was - not a literary work but a good, clever thriller with a social dimension that added depth to the story...What do you say? Shall we just relax and enjoy those foreign works without asking ourselves too many questions? Provided of course that the translation is decent enough and doesn't throw us off as we read!
Since I can't understand Swedish, I can't really make any comparison. This question is duh...It's like saying that Coelho's works is best read in Portugese than in English.
Obviously the original language is always the best.That' s the author's words. But translation makes literature possible for everyone, so... it' s a necessary harm. I think for novels is one thing, but for what concerns poetry it' s nearly impossible to be close to the original.
Think about english people reading Dante' s Divina Commedia and in the same way italians reading Milton' s Paradise Lost... something surely get missed in translation.
I don't know how true it is because I don't speak or read it, but when they were first being published in the US, I read a few articles about how much easier it is to translate Nordic languanges to English compared to other languages. Had something to do with the meter and sentence structure being very similar. I can definitely see a difference between subtitled movies in Swedish vs other languages, like Cantonese or Japanese.
D R wrote: "As I race to finish this bestseller published originally in Swedish and translated into English, what amazes me is that at no stage did I feel I was reading Stieg Larsson's story in Reg Keeland's w..."I read the first book in French, I liked it but the style seemed a bit weird, not natural, too frenchy if I can say that.
Then I read the second in English and I really felt that the english language suited better to the sweedish novel. I did not read the sweedish version but I guess that steig Larssson would be happy with it
I value your opinion, Anais Nee, because unlike any of us, you could sample the flavour of translations in two languages. Let me however hasten to add, what really attracted me was Reg Keeland's excellent work, which at no time made me feel that I was reading a translation.
The original language is always best if all possible...but when a book is translated well one will understand the context... which is the purpose and goal of a godd translator.
D R I totally agree with you about the writing. At not point I had he feeling to read a translation. I would think that Keeland loved the story and has an inclination for this kind of stories... Being a translator is so hard (I had the chance to have a class about English translation)
Y.K.W wrote: "Well, I believe that it really depends on the person who is doing the translation of the novel. Just like what Agate said "A good translation can be an art in itself", but I don't think that this a..."Nice one Y.K.W
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