1984 part one & appendix

[Jenn, moderator]

Please discuss part one here. In my edition on page 4 there is a footnote that refers the reader to the appendix titled "The Principles of Newspeak." I highly recommend reading this also, preferably early in the reading of the novel.

[Jenn, moderator]

In the first chapter we are introduced to a concept called Doublethink. One example of its usage is in the Party's slogan which happens to be plastered everywhere:

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

What do you think of this slogan? What do you think about the concept of doublethink? What do you think of the Party's usage of doublethink to control?

[Shannon]

After reading chapter one I couldn't help texting my friends "Big Brother is watching". It is creepy and is very possible today. I look foward to reading whos at the door.

[K]

I just started this book today and just finished Part I. I am wondering if I flat out missed a good description of "Doublethink" because I still feel as if it's unexplained thus far in the novel.

The slogan is PERFECT. It fits the bill of a dystopian society flawlessly, repressing its citizens by teaching its citizens that what may seem "right" is really bad.

I am intrigued by the Thought Police and can't wait to read more involving them.

[Lee]

I think there's echoes of doublethink everywhere today, especially in politics. It seems the most common practice of conservative governments these past 10 years or so. No matter what happens, just say that it isn't and go about your business.

Economy falls apart. We have a strong economy. Cut all environmental accountability: we're strengthening our environmental policies.

Not quite doublethink, but a close cousin.

(apologies if this actually starts a thread about politics)

[Dolores, co-moderator]

L.S. wrote: "I think there's echoes of doublethink everywhere today, especially in politics. It seems the most common practice of conservative governments these past 10 years or so. No matter what happens, just..."

I really don't think we could have a discussion about 1984 without getting into some politics, so no apologies necessary! However, I would like to remind everyone if we do end up discussing politics that everyone has different beliefs and opinions and we should respect others whether they agree with us or not. Also, please no insults or negative remarks about any polititians. Thanks.

[Mark]

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved the use of doublethink."

[Jon]

Jenn wrote: "In the first chapter we are introduced to a concept called Doublethink. One example of its usage is in the Party's slogan which happens to be plastered everywhere:

War is Peace
..."

Hello Jenn, excellent prompts on a great and vitally important book.

Those self-cancelling phrases short-circuit the thinking mechanism, which is the intent of those who seek to control the populace. By draining words and phrases of meaning, the Party diminishes the ability of the populace to form thoughts, thus diminishing their ability to dissent -- or express dissent or organize resistance. Newspeak drains words of meaning with this very goal in mind. As L.S. notes above, politicians today certainly know how to distort the meaning of language to influence opinion. Witness how each side to any public policy debate chooses words that favor its side. The following example is expressed in a neutral way, to avoid starting a political quarrel, in that it reports both sides' favored language: to some, it is "The Affordable Care Act" (the name of the law); to others, "Obamacare." Likewise, to some, the bombing of civilian areas kills men, women, and children; to others, it causes "collateral damage." We could do this all night.

I'm sure we'll get much more discussion of language as we proceed, so let me make one last observation: The Nazi's posted an unspeakably ironic phrase at the entrance to the concentration camps in which their slave-laborers perished:

"Arbeit Macht Frie." Work Makes You Free.

Free indeed.

[Matt]

Not to be cliche, but I loved reading 1984 because it is timeless. No matter when we exist as a society, the meaning of the word patriot is always under attack. Really, who can we trust? We cannot trust our neighbors, our co-workers, our lovers, or our children. In the end, we cannot even trust ourselves to speak to reality in a totalitarian government. I fear that this is what our world is slowly becoming. We cannot speak against the warmongers and bankers who have infiltrated our government for fear that we will be labeled as unpatriotic...even though being patriotic originally meant speaking truth to King George III. This, for me, is one of the most important books ever written.

[Mark]

Doublethink->Dialectic materialism? I remember that the teaching of dialectic materialism in communist China was very much along the same lines.

[Tina]

As I've been reading this section, I've been thinking a lot about Winston's hatred of women and his fear of children. One way the Party keeps control is by keeping people isolated.

[Will]

During the 'two minute Hate' Winston struggles with his true emotions while being inextricably caught hurling rage at the screen with the others in the room. He tells us, through internal dialogue, that the 'hate' he is expressing along with the others is not for the opposers to 'The Party', but rather much more for himself for being part of a system in which he has no choice but to actively take part.

I found it particularly interesting when taken through Winston's thought process as he struggles to even comprehend what it is he actually angry at; it is this confusion that drives the effectiveness of doublespeak, where independent thought against The Party (and certainly hanging on to any particular train of independent thought) has been rendered an arduous undertaking, to say the least. Couple this with free thought being punishable by death and the people really aren't left anywhere to go, including, it would seem, the "few cubic centimetres inside their skull".

Confusion, in this case and of this kind, will lead to a massive amount of depression in anyone willing to take on the lethal matter of questioning authority. In a life where questioning leads to confusion which in turn leads to depression it makes sense that these 'soothing' images and the voice of Big Brother, amongst all the excessively violent propaganda, becomes a 'beacon' in what is, by design, quite a senseless existence - for the general populace at least.

[Ana]

Ignorance is a strong tool. I have read this book four times and it never ceases to amaze me how well "Orwell" managed to capture that in the novel. . I definitely have seen aspects of both doublespeak and newspeak in our modern society. The thought of minimizing people's ability to express themselves always worried me a little. When instant messaging and and texting became possible I always thought that the acronyms used to chat were getting pretty close to Newspeak.

I think the most memorable scene in Part 1 is when Big Brother announces that chocolate rations will be raised to twenty grams, which is actually a reduction and Winston watches in amazement as his fellow party members celebrate with sincere joy. It shows how blindly the masses follow Big Brother and honestly I have watched our own government use similar techniques to convince people things are getting better when they are actually getting worse.

[Judy]

I found chapter I a very scary and reflective of what is going on today. To close to the truth of today. I'm not sure that Big Brother is not live and well today. I don't know if I can read all of this book. So far I find it a depressing read. I'll try chapter two and see how I feel after that.

[Debbie]

Judy, I feel the same way, but find it interesting still. As I read it, I am thankful that in our society where terms are being redefined and political correctness is the thought police of today that I can always find the truth in the Bible. The rest...who can say? It is a great book to read to remind us to think, if nothing else.

[Jon]

Ana wrote: "Ignorance is a strong tool. I have read this book four times and it never ceases to amaze me how well "Orwell" managed to capture that in the novel. . I definitely have seen aspects of both doubl..."

Ana, ur right about texting IMHO. LOL. :o)

Seriously, that's an excellent point. The inability to use advanced language inhibits the ability to think as well as the ability to communicate thought. And then the masses are ripe for abuse. Baaa!

[Jon]

Judy wrote: "I found chapter I a very scary and reflective of what is going on today. To close to the truth of today. I'm not sure that Big Brother is not live and well today. I don't know if I can read all of ..."

Hello Judy,

I do agree that politicos, along with advertisers btw, are remarkably adept at using 1984's manipulative tactics. The huge difference is that we have freedom of the press and of speech -- and must preserve it always to protect our very freedom. That's no great insight on my part, of course, but it's a refrain we must never stop singing.

[Kris]

I have just started 1984. I find George Orwell to be a fascinating writer. I had read Animal Farm many years ago and enjoyed it but for some reason never branched out to try 1984.

I find when reading this book, it is very interesting how the reader can get caught up in Winston's thoughts. The author does a good job of using the doublethink as a base for the novel.

1984 is as revelent today as it was when Orwell wrote it, if not more so.

I am not very far into the novel but am excited to see where this book takes me...

[Debbie]

I recently reread Animal Farm and am noticing several similarities between the two governments, the most noticeable being the supposed enemy of the state who is blamed for everything.

[Allison]

What stood out to me in the first part is how Winston seems to be so much more intelligent than everyone else introduced so far. Not only does he have curiosity about the past, but he can recognize the Party's lies very easily. He also knows how to work the system... he finds the spot where the telescreen cant see him, he knows how to keep his features from betraying his thoughts, he consciously acts in ways that will keep the party from knowing what he is thinking. He also realizes who will eventually be vaporized. (As my husband said when I was telling him my thoughts so far, Winston is almost like Neo from the Matrix.)
Talking about doublethink, I noticed how he talks about the Party doesnt want anyone to have time alone unless they are sleeping. Its all work, eat, sleep. However, Winston constantly mentions how alone he feels. Loneliness and isolation seems to be another theme so far.

[Deni]

I haven't quite finished part one yet, but what has stuck with me most so far, is Winston's thoughts on women and children. He seems to still have a bit of a natural sexual urge towards young women, but at other times, he is apathetic towards them (the girl with the dark hair, and his neighbor, Mrs. Parsons). It is though he is forcing himself to not feel an attraction.
I felt that this was because of his views on children and family life. Why bring more people into his world and have them suffer and be enslaved like he is?
I found his views on children to be very depressing ("Nearly all children nowadays were horrible") and pessimistic. Maybe rightfully so. It feels as though he is hopeless because the children, who will be the future leaders of Oceania, are so susceptible to the Party's views, and most do not resist. Some even turn their parents in!

[Emily]

Allison wrote: "What stood out to me in the first part is how Winston seems to be so much more intelligent than everyone else introduced so far. Not only does he have curiosity about the past, but he can recognize..."

I wonder if everyone else catches on to the lies and is intelligent too, but they don't show it because they are afraid of what it might lead to. I wonder if it's only because we are in Winston's head that we know how much he thinks. It's been a little while since I've read this, but I'm pretty sure he acts ignorant too. I feel like everyone is stuck in their own personal prison that exists in their mind. Their ideas and thoughts can't come out because they're terrified of the thought police, and even their own families and children.

[Jon]

Emily wrote: "Allison wrote: "What stood out to me in the first part is how Winston seems to be so much more intelligent than everyone else introduced so far. Not only does he have curiosity about the past, but ..."

I believe that the majority of people in Oceania do accept The Party's lies -- though, yes, there are undoubtedly some who harbor doubts, as Winston does. But remember, Winston is in a unique position as a functionary in "Minitrue" whose job it is to rewrite history -- so he knows that The Party lies. Few others do.

The governing officials of Oceania are masters of all of the techniques of manipulation, including repetition: It is a psychological truism that people tend to believe what they hear over and over again (today's politicians know that all too well). 1984 presents a nightmare scenario precisely because most of the citizenry of Oceania do indeed believe the Party's lies.

[Alexandria]

I am now in the middle of part two. There's so much to say about part one that I hardly know where to begin. everything about the book fascinates me so far. Honestly, I have trouble discussing a book until I am finished. But, what I love is a society that is more or less the oposite of the one we live in. I know, not the most original thought about this part of the book. When I have completed it I am sure that I will have so much more to say. I cannot wait to finish part two.

[Ash]

I think and agree with others that our American government reflects a lot of the characteristics of the Party. It is actually quite scary.

I thought the observation of text messaging resembling newspeak was a very interesting observation. With the heightening popularity of it and social networking, such as twitter, there definitely has been an increase in people who communicate using a shallow application of intelligence and grammatical incorrectness. I myself am sometimes guilty.

I find myself loosely relating to the way Winston feels throughout this first part. I am a military spouse who is anti-war and anti-violence and that doesn't always go over well with the other spouses or my husbands co-workers. I find myself having a similar internal struggle as Winston to try to hold on to my beliefs and my civilian lifestyle but still be supportive of my husband and the cause he works for. I feel pressured all the time to try to hide my dismay or merely fly under the radar when military speak begins just for the sake of being accepted.

[Jon]

Hi Ashley,

Re: txt msg. obso, ur so rite! thx 4 sharing. :o)

[Jon]

Ashley wrote: "I think and agree with others that our American government reflects a lot of the characteristics of the Party. It is actually quite scary.

I thought the observation of text messaging resembling ne..."

Hi Ashley,

Now a response more serious than my silly texting response.

Fascinating situation you find yourself in, as an antiwar military spouse (in its most noble sense, a military should be antiwar, I think -- i.e., a peacekeeping force). You raise an issue quite germane to 1984, the pressure to conform to the group. In Oceania, anyone not giving their all during the Two-Minute Hate was apt to be noticed by The Party and targeted for elimination. The pressure to openly display adherence to orthodoxy is also frequently at play in many religious congregations. In America, it is even found at the ballpark. I am a huge baseball fan, and I could explain at length how I love my country -- but I do not see why I must stand at attention two times to display my patriotism when patriotic songs are played at a ballgame! It's just a BALLGAME, for crying out loud. This form of social pressure is far more benign that that at play in Oceania of course, but it is on the same spectrum.

Thanks,
Jon

[Dolores, co-moderator]

Jon wrote: "Emily wrote: "Allison wrote: "What stood out to me in the first part is how Winston seems to be so much more intelligent than everyone else introduced so far. Not only does he have curiosity about ..."

I think that with Winston's job, it would be hard for him to forget the lies that he rewrites everyday. I know it would make me wonder what else they were lying about that I didn't know about.

[David]

I enjoyed Part One, Orwell is a pretty good writer and though it's mostly an introduction to Winston's world it wasn't dry or dull. In Part Two though the plot actually begins to move.

I still see the Soviet Union as the archetype of this sort of government, but they all tend to want to control and regulate their citizens more and more until eventually all freedom is lost.

[Alana]

I think it's interesting to consider the time frame in which 1984 is written, and the rampant fear of Communism, McCarthy era, etc. It must certainly have been appealing in that time. However, when comparing it to modern America, where the government is often strongly anti-capitalist (as 1984 talks about the Dark Times, etc), it becomes rather eerie. It is certainly unclear who is the greater enemy, or replacing of one enemy with another (i.e. Animal Farm or more recently, The Hunger Games).

Also, it is interesting to note that the only ones who truly feel the fear of Big Brother and the Thought Police, etc, are those within the party, which Winston points out is a smaller percentage of the population. Those in the masses are not guided so strictly, yet they do not have any political power (at least in their eyes), so they are not a threat to the government, also very reminiscent of today's masses.

I also found the comparison with texting very compelling. I had never thought about it in that way, but it's a very good observation. Not only that, but spellcheck and other conveniences we have allow us to use our memories and problem-solving abilities less and less, so we don't develop our minds to solve more complex problems.

All of this makes reading classics that much more important, to preserve both ideas and language, not to mention learning from our past as a culture. I'm curious to see how the rest of the book works out, as it's been a long time since I've read it.

[Pippa]

Has anybody read Wartime: Understanding and Behavior in the Second World War
Fussell talks about how language was used - in exactly this way - in WW2. Those of us who remember the Gulf war will remember it from that time too. 'Soft targets' are people for example. Call it something else and it won't seem so bad. I read this book in a different edition, so don't have the doublethink appendix mentioned at the beginning of this thread, but Orwell, I think, wasn't just prescient. He was picking up on what was already happening, and recognising that it could become even worse.

[Ayça]

Ashley wrote: "I think and agree with others that our American government reflects a lot of the characteristics of the Party. It is actually quite scary.

I thought the observation of text messaging resembling ne..."

While reading, I thought the same for the Turkish Government. And, I think most of the citizens from different governments would also agree. This prooves that this books is not valid just for a century or a country. It is a proof that all governments are similar everywhere and all the times. I guess most people are aware of this; however, speaking for myself, we do not create solutions or not strive hard to change or prevent this situation. I, as a linguist, actually adore and affected from Orwell as the way he used the language. The new language in Ocenia is enough by itself to brainwash. And, I think Orwell explained it very clearly.

[Julie]

Yes, Orwell addresses universals that we can all relate to across time and space. Most classics do, but I especially like the dystopians.

[Sara]

The destruction of language theme and changing the past remind me of Fahrenheit 451, another book is like to read again. The altering of the past really gets to me, where it becomes impossible to tell what is fact. I once heard a quote that went something along the lines ”the victors are the ones who write the history books.” Maybe someone knows the quote, I'm roughly paraphrasing.
On another note, the internet is a wonderful thing. Changing the past this way today would be difficult because there are so many different accounts all available and linked together. The world wide Web is the ultimate Freedom of Speech.

[Erin]

@Sara: Yes, I was just thinking about that aspect of 1984 life. The internet is vast and sprawling and the effect it has had on our lives is both good and bad, but it is always honest. What happened is out there for people to see. I love (for example) when a politician makes a public statement about something, and then the news pulls up video or printed proof that the politician said the exact opposite some years ago.

In a world without that resource, Winston's job as a rewriter of history is so intriguing, and kind of terrifying. The bit about the chocolate rations was also great. I really think I would have noticed if I was eating less chocolate than the previous week.

BTW, did anybody find the Appendix a bit redundant? So much of the Newspeak is easily gleaned from listening to the characters in the book, and a bunch of it is straight-up explained by Winston's friend Syme.