Pandemonium
discussion
Why I think Lena's going to end up with Alex.
Seeing the cover makes me really excited to read the book. Can't wait!However, I disagree with you.
1.) Lena's mom was never in any position to be able to fall in love with someone else. She had to maintain the image of being cured, and anyone her age would have been cured and married already. And while in the Crypts, finding someone new probably isn't your top priority. We don't really get much information about Len'a mom after she escaped. For all we know, she could have found someone new while in the Wilds.
2.) I think there isn't a love triangle because Alex hates Lena now. Lena will be conflicted, no doubt about that. However, I think Alex has changed for the worse and Lena will see that.
3.) I think that quote talks more about becoming cured. Lena (or anyone else) becoming cured won't take away the fact that they're loved. (I don't remember who said the quote or who it was to, so forgive me if it wasn't directed at Lena.)
Also, it is normal for someone who has become a widow or otherwise lost the person they loved, to find someone else.
If Alex has changed the way I think he has, I hope they don't end up together. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe that sweet Alex is still there somewhere.
Alissa wrote: "Seeing the cover makes me really excited to read the book. Can't wait!However, I disagree with you.
1.) Lena's mom was never in any position to be able to fall in love with someone else. She had t..."
I see what you're saying but in Delirium in mentioned that Lena's mom "Broke" when Lena's dad died, so I think she loved him a lor and even wore his military (Military?) pin after he died,so that's why I said that.
But we don't even know if Alex is mad at Lena. He spoke three words that could've meant don't believe her she still loves me, and not she's a horrible person I hate her kind of way
Alissa wrote: "Seeing the cover makes me really excited to read the book. Can't wait!However, I disagree with you.
1.) Lena's mom was never in any position to be able to fall in love with someone else. She had t..."
Completely agree with you ... I have a feeling Alex has changed. Also, what most people do not realize is that Julian left the only world he knows for her. As she did for Alex. If she goes back to Alex, Julian will have left for nothing. How is that fair? This was already Alex's world so he can survive without her, which would eliminate a love triangle. I think he is going to hate her and she will have to deal.
Aleesha wrote: "Completely agree with you ... I have a feeling Alex has changed. Also, what most people do not realize is that Julian left the only world he knows for her...."The way Alex is described, I just don't have much hope that he's the same.
And you make a valid point about Julian. To be honest, I would really dislike Lena for leaving him. It would remind me of Alex leaving Lena. He could have made it into the Wilds with her, so I don't understand why he choose to stay behind. Especially knowing Lena didn't know where to go, who to trust, or even how to survive. It came off (to me) as selfish.
With some many ways the last book could go, I'm really excited to see which way Lauren takes it.
Alissa wrote: "Aleesha wrote: "Completely agree with you ... I have a feeling Alex has changed. Also, what most people do not realize is that Julian left the only world he knows for her...."The way Alex is desc..."
Alex didn't leave Lena on purpose. They were being chased for God's sake! Alex knew that only one of them could make it to the other side and since he already experienced the wilds he sacrificed himself so that Lena could be free he knew that she would find help in the wilds. Maybe he even knew that they would be together again one day. That is the complete opposite of selfish!
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alex didn't leave Lena on purpose. They were being chased for God's sake! Alex knew that only one of them could make it to the other side and since he already"I understand they were being chased, but I still feel he could have easily made it over with Lena.
"He hasn't moved a single inch since we both jumped off the bike, hasn't tried to."
That line gave me the impression that they both could have made it. Understandably, things move really fast when adrenaline is pumping. So maybe Alex made the decision to stay behind, convinced they both wouldn't make it. And by time he realized that he could have made it, it was too late to do anything. He was stuck with his choice.
Also, in the event that he didn't make it out, Alex should have given her some sort of direction, something to look for that would lead her to safety (If he did, I don't recall it).
I don't think Alex ever had the plan of leaving Lena alone in the Wilds, not at all. I just wish he would have tried a little bit harder and not given up when things turned sour.
And I do want to clarify, I didn't dislike Alex at the end of the first book. I didn't dislike him throughout the second book. Its just when he appeared, I got the picture that he was about to beat the crap out of Julian and was going to start yelling at Lena.
He just seemed SO angry with her, and I don't think he should be.
P.S. I started reading what I had just wrote and a thought occurred to me. Perhaps Alex is mad at himself.
Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alex didn't leave Lena on purpose. They were being chased for God's sake! Alex knew that only one of them could make it to the other side and since he already"..."
That makes sense however I think Alex didn't try to move because if he did then they would have chased them both into the wilds which would have put not only Alex and Lena in danger but also the people of the wilds. Either that or they would have electrified the fence and killed them both. So with the police distracted trying to capture Alex he gave Lena a chance to get away safely. I personally think Alex had a plan of getting out to be with Lena. Also, when Alex and Lena went into the wilds for the first time he taught her how to read the map on the trees so he didn't just abandon Lena.
I think Alex deserves to be mad on every sort of ground because I mean back to what happened in Delirium, Alex freaking sacrificed himself so Lena could get away safe. Then endured the crypts where they were doing god knows what to him just to find Lena smooching up some other guy at the end of Pandemonium! It didn't even take Lena a year to start a relationship with Julian. Alex was just attacked Lena ASSUMED he was dead she didn't even bother to verify it because she was to busy making sure Julian was safe and sound. *rolling eyes* It wasn't even hard to find out if Alex was alive like when she was looking through the prison records she could have looked for Alex's name but did she noooo because she was to busy protecting Julian.
Lena promised Alex she would stay with him forever.
"I love you and they cannot take it." Just to turn around and promise fragile little Julian the same thing. So I think Alex deserves to be mad I'm mad FOR Alex ha-ha >:D.
I hope Lena does end up with Julian because she doesn't deserve Alex.
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alex didn't leave Lena on purpose. They were being chased for God's sake! Alex knew that only one of them could make it to the other side and sin..."Interesting, although if I was a guard my first thought would be to electrify the fence before they even got there. Maybe a draw back of the cure? Not having a sense of urgency?
While I still don't think Alex should be mad, I see your point. Lena was probably the only that kept him going during who knows what in the Crypts. But it's not like Lena knew he was there being tortured, so I don't think he can fault her. He should be jealous and heart broken, but not mad (at least not as mad as I pictured him being, which may be different than Lauren pictured).
As far as assuming he was dead, I don't think she did. While talking to Raven I believe Lena asked if they had heard of someone getting out and they said no. Now while this doesn't mean he's dead, you lose what little hope you had.
Then she had to rebuild herself, become someone new in order to survive in the Wilds. She had to bury herself along with everyone she knew.
You're right, she could have looked for his name. But if it were me, I would have been scared. There really would have been nothing she could do at that point. It would have been a crushing blow either way. Sometimes we need ignorance in order to survive.
Also, I don't remember if the records she was looking at where updated, it may have been an old copy.
With Alex, Lena needed to be protected and taught. With Julian, Lena is the protector and teacher.
Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Alex didn't leave Lena on purpose. They were being chased for God's sake! Alex knew that only one of them co..."You do make a point there Lena did have to "bury" her previous life along with everything and everyone she loved. However, I just think that as much as she thought of Alex and hoping that he was alive she would jump at the opportunity to see what happened to him or where he was.
Your right we do need ignorance to survive sometimes but if were her I would rather know if Alex were dead or imprisoned it would give me some peace of mind to really know but thats just me I would probally be scared to know though too.
I don't think Alex was exactly mad persay (although I think he has every right to be) I think he was more betrayed then anything else. Like when he said, "Don't believe her" I think it was like him saying, "Don't believe her when she says forever because she said that to me too."
But alas there is so much we don't know until Requiem comes out *sigh* but I do crown Lauren Oliver queen of all devastating cliff hangers ha-ha :)
Never mind guys it's Hana's POV... I feel like a major idiot:/
Isabella wrote: "Never mind guys it's Hana's POV... I feel like a major idiot:/"your not an idiot everyone thought it was Lena's mom. But now since its Hana's POV maybe she will end up with Julian...
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Isabella wrote: "Never mind guys it's Hana's POV... I feel like a major idiot:/"your not an idiot everyone thought it was Lena's mom. But now since its Hana's POV maybe she will end up with Juli..."
I'm really curious how Hana is going to play a part in the next book. She is cured after all.
Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Isabella wrote: "Never mind guys it's Hana's POV... I feel like a major idiot:/"your not an idiot everyone thought it was Lena's mom. But now since its Hana'..."
or was she??? hmmmmm.... ha-ha :)
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I kind of think that Julian is going to be some sort of evil because who in a dystopian-fiction-book-world is that innocent and hot? NOT POSSIBLE!!! He does have a bad backstory but STILLL!!!!! ( sorry for sounding like a whiney baby :) ) Ya i want alex more!
Alissa wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Isabella wrote: "Never mind guys it's Hana's POV... I feel like a major idiot:/"your not an idiot everyone thought it was Lena's mom. But now since its Hana'..."
maybe hana will end up with Alex or Julian
hey did you guys read "hanna" by any chance? its the novella before the second book and after the first. If you read this book i think your opinion of hanna will really change. And when i say really i mean COMPLETELY.
Kaina wrote: "hey did you guys read "hanna" by any chance? its the novella before the second book and after the first. If you read this book i think your opinion of hanna will really change. And when i say reall..."Yeah I read it. Oh my god! It totally changed, I can't believe what she did!
I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I assumed that she would reappear because of how her story ended in the Hana short story. Lena has a serious slap to give her! I had my suspicions about her intentions during Delirium too!
As for Alex, he is Lena’s one true love. He has to be! She gave up her life to be with him. Her whole relationship with Julian has been completely different. She feels for him, but its more pity affection due to what happened to his brother, his illness and his relationship with his father. She feels an overwhelming need to protect him and save him and is confusing this with love. Her belief that Alex was dead (which to be fair, I would’ve thought the same thing having witnessed his capture at the fence) left a huge void in her, so it’s understandable that the first guy she’s attracted to appears to be the one who could fill that hole, but now she knows that Alex is alive and he’s within her reach, she’ll go straight back to him. He will need her more than ever and I think a large part of the third book will be about her winning him back and helping him to recover physically and mentally from whatever he endured in the crypts.
The other option is that Alex has been cured…
As for Alex, he is Lena’s one true love. He has to be! She gave up her life to be with him. Her whole relationship with Julian has been completely different. She feels for him, but its more pity affection due to what happened to his brother, his illness and his relationship with his father. She feels an overwhelming need to protect him and save him and is confusing this with love. Her belief that Alex was dead (which to be fair, I would’ve thought the same thing having witnessed his capture at the fence) left a huge void in her, so it’s understandable that the first guy she’s attracted to appears to be the one who could fill that hole, but now she knows that Alex is alive and he’s within her reach, she’ll go straight back to him. He will need her more than ever and I think a large part of the third book will be about her winning him back and helping him to recover physically and mentally from whatever he endured in the crypts.
The other option is that Alex has been cured…
If Alex is cured, Lena doesn't end up with him, or he dies, then Laurens gonna have an angry mob at her doorstep, assembled by me!! Team Alex all te way!! Julian needs to die!!
Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I assumed that she would reappear because of how her story ended in the Hana short story. Lena ha..."
Ya, wen Lena cried for Hana in Pandy, I laughed. Honey, you wouldn't be cryin if u knew wat she did!!
Alex better not be cured!! Or I will die!
Ya, wen Lena cried for Hana in Pandy, I laughed. Honey, you wouldn't be cryin if u knew wat she did!!
Alex better not be cured!! Or I will die!
Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I assumed that she would reappear because of how her story ended in the Hana short s..."Then we can have a double funeral!
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I assumed that she would reappear because of how her story ende..."
Hahah! I hope Hana dies she is a jerk!!
Hahah! I hope Hana dies she is a jerk!!
Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I assumed that she would r..."Have you read her novella?
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is going to end up back in the story. I ass..."
Yup. The end was so shocking. I had to read the last 3 words over and over again for it to sink in, I couldn't belive it.
Yup. The end was so shocking. I had to read the last 3 words over and over again for it to sink in, I couldn't belive it.
Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and that is how she is goi..."Is that why she is a jerk?? Because I haven't read it yet :/
Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Tallyn-Goodfellow;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Abby wrote: "I don’t think the cure will work for Hana and t..."
Yup. Read it. It's 2.99 on kindle/nook. Compleatly changes your perspective of Hana.
Yup. Read it. It's 2.99 on kindle/nook. Compleatly changes your perspective of Hana.
My question is, is Lena's dad actually dead? I can't remember what was said about his death. But if it was only Lena's memory of him being dead, well, lets not forget she thought her mom was dead too. And by the way, was it just me or was the fact that the woman was Lena's mom glaringly obvious to everyone?
But I do think Lena will wind up with Alex. Simply because Alex loves Lena and Lena loves Alex.
Julian is a nice guy and all, but Lena doesn't love him. They just went through several traumatic experiences together, saved each other's lives, and were imprisoned together. Of course she likes him enough to want to kiss him at the moment. But nowhere does she say she loves him. He only thinks he loves her.
And quite honestly, they know almost nothing about each other. There relationship is pretty shallow so far and practically forced, since everyone conspired to have them captured together. I've never been in the situation, but I'm assuming no matter who you are, if you're locked up with someone decent for a while, you're going to find them an ally, friend, and very possibly more. Especially if you escape together.
Given a little more time (and the fact of Alex actually being dead, of course) I think they very easily could have grown to love one another, but they're just not there right now.
But I do think it's to Lena's credit that she's capable of that possibility. That she didn't allow what happened to her and what she thought happened to Alex to make her hard and bitter.
It gets a little more tricky with Alex. I'm a little unsure of what to expect when we see him in the next book. All we really know is that he looks like he's been through alot. And well, yeah, he has.
I would assume they attempted to cure him. Although, it was also assumed by many that he was dead. Can't say I ever bought that though. It would have sucked too much and ruined the series. You don't invest that kind of time on a character only to kill them off so easily.
Anyway, back to the subject. Alex may have had the surgery, but I tend to doubt it since he has a number tattooed on his neck like Lena's mom. So they probably just tortured him for information and kept him locked up. Which would account for the changes in his appearance.
As for his demeanor and assumed anger at the end - well, can you blame him? He walks in on his girlfriend making out with another guy. His girlfriend who he gave himself up for, probably thinking he'd be killed.
I'd be miffed too.
But I'm not even sure if the line he says is even directed in anger toward Lena. It might be confidence in the fact that he's still positive she loves him. So he tells Julian not to believe her, because she doesn't know he's alive yet.
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into that part, lol
Whatever state we find Alex in, though, I'm pretty confident he still loves Lena. He sacrificed himself for her and followed her for several hundred miles. That doesn't just go away because she kissed someone else.
And lets not forget, Alex is the most patient and forgiving guy ever. In the first book when Lean was avoiding him like the plague (after they're thrown together again) and she tells him not to worry because she wasn't going to tell on him, he says 'I don't care about that, I just don't want you to hate me'. AND that he wouldn't even suggest that she leave her home for him, to live in the Wilds. He wanted her to, but he didn't want her to do it for him. He waited until it was her idea. Which tells me that above everything else, he wants her to be happy, regardless of how it makes him feel.
I think someone said something like leaving Julian wouldn't be fair after he gave up his life for her.
But that's just a little ridiculous. First of all, he didn't give up everything for her. It was either run or die. Not alot of decision to be made there.
And second, it's not a board game. It doesn't have to be 'fair'. What would be unfair would be Lena staying with Julian out of obligation.
She never stopped loving Alex. Even during their one peaceful night in the shelter, she couldn't stop thinking of him, while lying in Juian's arms.
She was just resigned to him being dead, so she allowed herself the possibility of moving on eventually. But I don't think she even thought she was close to that yet.
So, yeah, she's gonna wind up with Alex.
in the 2nd book Alex was taken away in the crpyts and possibly had the procedure that why his 'fake' 3 prong scar is covered with something..sorry forgot what is was you see the people who have love is to powerful and NO FREAKIN CURE WILL FIX IT Alex had Lena on his mind all the time...it wont work if you have love and i see ALENA >alex and lena< forever togetherNOTHIN IS FAIR K? UMM yea. lena and alex love and i mean love each other and need to be together in the end i seriously do not like Julian ppl who like him..um ew? NOT BEING MEAN just my opinion
Lenasheathes wrote: "LOVE WILL CONQOR ALL!"AGREE
Haylee' Marie wrote: "that why his 'fake' 3 prong scar is covered with something..sorry forgot what is was"It wasn't covered. There was a tattooed inmate number around the scar. Like the one Lena's mom had. I don't know if they bother trying to cure the inmates since they feel like they're pretty secure, locked up forever.
Haylee' Marie wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "LOVE WILL CONQOR ALL!"
AGREE"
At leat it will for Alex and Lena! Julian is gonna die alone :) :)
AGREE"
At leat it will for Alex and Lena! Julian is gonna die alone :) :)
ALEX....i think she going to end up with alex ... because ... REMEMBER julian his tumor?? ..... yeah he might died in the 3rd book like it might grow again kause he said on pademonium that it grew over and over again .. idk ...u know wat i mean ... and thats how she might end up with alex .... yeahhh :}
Isabella wrote: "First, I'd like to say I've started wayyyyy to many discussions on this book. I'm sorry if I'm annoying anyone but this NEEDS to be discussed.Okay Requiem is going to have 2 POVs one is Lena's an..."
i heard its not her moms pov but Hanas.
Maria wrote: "Isabella wrote: "First, I'd like to say I've started wayyyyy to many discussions on this book. I'm sorry if I'm annoying anyone but this NEEDS to be discussed.Okay Requiem is going to have 2 POV..."
Yeah I know that now... which is why I commented that I'm an idiot
Lenasheathes wrote: "LOVE WILL CONQOR ALL!"This is random and irrelevent but I like your username thing.
Isabella wrote: "Maria wrote: "Isabella wrote: "First, I'd like to say I've started wayyyyy to many discussions on this book. I'm sorry if I'm annoying anyone but this NEEDS to be discussed.Okay Requiem is going..."\
sorry
Okay, I have no idea whether she's going to end up with Julian or Alex. And I don't want to spend my time speculating, either. I'm team Alex, but I think Julian is awesome, too.Plus, I notice a bunch of people are raving about the cover of this book. If you ask me? the cover of Requiem looks nearly exactly the same as the cover of Pandemonium, she's just facing the other way.
the only cover I really liked was Delirium, which I thought she was really pretty on.
she turned the other cheek...move on is what i see when i look at the 3rd book cover
Isabella wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "LOVE WILL CONQOR ALL!"
This is random and irrelevent but I like your username thing."
Thanks!
This is random and irrelevent but I like your username thing."
Thanks!
Haylee' Marie wrote: "she turned the other cheek...move on is what i see when i look at the 3rd book cover"
Did anyone else notice this? So the delirium cover was green ( the special edition one) pansemonium was yello and requim is red. RED MEANS RUN!!
Did anyone else notice this? So the delirium cover was green ( the special edition one) pansemonium was yello and requim is red. RED MEANS RUN!!
well u know that the wilds is not safe anymore
i see that now!!
Lenasheathes wrote: "Haylee' Marie wrote: "she turned the other cheek...move on is what i see when i look at the 3rd book cover"Did anyone else notice this? So the delirium cover was green ( the special edition one)..."
i just need the 3rd book!!
Ikr??? I need that book more than anything in the world!!!!!!!! Stupid publishing ppl and there stupid publishing dates!
is she like already finished and we are just waiting??
Haylee' Marie wrote: "is she like already finished and we are just waiting??"on Lauren Oliver's website she said the book is done but it takes a year for it to get from her laptop to the book shelves.
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Haylee' Marie wrote: "is she like already finished and we are just waiting??"
on Lauren Oliver's website she said the book is done but it takes a year for it to get from her laptop to the book sh..."
Ya I read on a interview she's finished it but it has to be edited and all that
on Lauren Oliver's website she said the book is done but it takes a year for it to get from her laptop to the book sh..."
Ya I read on a interview she's finished it but it has to be edited and all that
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Okay Requiem is going to have 2 POVs one is Lena's and one is Lena's mom, I believe.
Right now you're probably like "that has nothing to do with Alex"
But it does! Sort of...
1) Lena's mom never stopped loving Lena's dad even after he DIED** so the fact that she's a POV (possibly) seems to be a hint.
2) Lauren said there wasn't a love triangle. So what I'm thinking is maybe that we all think that she's going to be conflicted about Julian or Alex, but maybe the choice is simple and her heart belongs to Alex.
3) The 1st book has a quote that says "I love you. Remember. They cannot take it." and this one my friend actually thinks but she thought it was a hint that Julian can't take her love?
Kay that's it. Bye
P.S. Isn't the requiem cover amazing!?