Myth, Legend and Mythology (eg King Arthur)

[Simona]

Darcy wrote: "That's the author. I'm not sure how she'll handle this mythological stuff. I mean, Loki isn't food after all *giggles*"

..."Loki on Toast....?"

[Jane]

Am enjoying The Green Man--based on the source legend of Hamlet, called here Amleth. Legendary characters: King [called here Duke] Arthur and Elaine [Elene] quite unlike other portrayals I've read, also Beowulf [called the Bigmouth]--all three are unpleasant.

[Mark]

Didnt relise that at all, about that film..

[Phair]

Re Joanne Harris's new Loki book:
Her book for younger readers: Runemarks had a pretty good feeling for Norse mythology although at times I found it a little hard to follow.

[Jane]

My review of The Green Man

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

[Deb]

Terri wrote: "I have never read any of her books....and I did avoid watching the movie because it is *gag* romance!! :]

Does she know how to write though? Proper?"

I actually liked her
Much more than I ever expected to, I would say it was well written and leaned less heavily on the romance than the movie (inevitably) did.

[Deb]

For this thread, as a bit of a deviation from Arthurian, I would suggest which is the first in a trilogy.

While it is basically a viking saga, and very much fictional I would say there is a 'mythic' theme in the way it describes runes and some of the adventures. I am willing to be overruled on this suggestion though.

[Jon]

I agree Deborah, although I felt Robert Low over did it in places. Maybe over demonstrating his mythic knowledge, beyond the needs of the storyline?

[Darcy]

Robert Low is a much discussed author in these here parts. I believe he has his own thread, and we discuss his books often in the Viking era threads too, so no, it's definitely not being overruled.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

The author even joins us sometimes in the thread dedicated to his books. If you have any questions about his mythic knowledge he may drop in and answer.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Should chuck Kevin Hearneinto the mix. His books involve mythologies... just about anyones and are some of the funniest things I've read.

Not historical though, which really does leave them out of our group.

[Simona]

You could cheat a bit and propose his books for the Historical Fantasy thread. (And they are really fun, I agree)

[Tim]

Marina wrote: "There's a book by Elizabeth Chadwick called First Knight, on which then film with the same name was based"

That is, without doubt, one of the worst King Arthur films I've ever seen. Even Sean Connery couldn't save it.

[Deb]

yeah, first knight was an 'Oh dear, did I pay money for this?' movie.

[Portia]

My reaction to "First Knight" was, and still is, Eiuw ick.

[Darcy]

Another little funny circulating

https://twitter.com/NorseMythNews/sta...

[Tim]

Darcy wrote: "Another little funny circulating

https://twitter.com/NorseMythNews/sta..."

My 6 year old daughter asked the question, "If God created everything, where did God come from?" Not sure what the answer was I told her the story from Norse mythology of the Ginnungagap and the cow that licks the ice, revealing a man beneath (look it up). The way children do, she accepted it. Unfortunately she then related the tale to her Sunday school teacher, with the caveat that it must be true, "because my Dad told me".

Probably drifting a bit far from King Arthur with this...

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Sometimes one does have to shelter the young from what is far too heavy for them to be worrying about. :)

Like when kids say "what's on the other side of space".

How do you explain to a child that there is nothing on the other side of space and that as humans, everything in our existence has a beginning and an end and it is all we know.
We will never understand infinity so there is no point in trying.
We are simply not programmed to comprehend some things.

I am not religious, not sure I believe in anything, but if there is a God, well, same applies. We are simply not programmed to understand how a God could be a reality.

Norse mythology is a cool way to explain the unexplainable to children. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

And it is lovely to have you a part of things. :)
Quite a few fellow Arthurian fans in the group.

[Jane]

Started Electra / Henry Treece.
Enjoying it so far, very imaginative retelling of the Electra myth. If the rest is as good as the classical Greek plays or R. Strauss's opera, Elektra, I'll be pleased indeed.

[Devin]

Terri wrote: "I thought to myself "Self, why not kick this thread off with not only some King Arthur, but some Bernard Cornwell King Arthur"
So here I go. Tally ho. (The Winter King is the first book in the seri..."

All three of these were such great reads. I loved his twists and takes on the Arthurian Legend.

[Lisa]

Me too Devin. It was my first Cornwall book! I got sucked right into the world. I look forward to going back to them, as it's been a while. But the problem with this group is that you get so many new recommendations and ideas that the TBR list grows exponentially and you need to give up work to read your books, lol.

[Jane]

My review of Electra:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...

[Matt]

Tina wrote: "OH. My. GAWD.

I will be all over this thread like a shrunken tunic on a barbarian. I positively, absolutely ADORE Arthurian Fiction. With all my heart. It is my favorite type of historical fiction..."

I am interested in reading this one The Kingmaking by Helen Hollick, as from some of what I have read it is supposed to be a more realistic version to the story of Arthur. I hesitate though, from some of the reviews that imply that there is a lot of romantic themes going on in this book/series. Would that be accurate, or no?

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Matthew wrote: "Tina wrote: "OH. My. GAWD.

I will be all over this thread like a shrunken tunic on a barbarian. I positively, absolutely ADORE Arthurian Fiction. With all my heart. It is my favorite type of histo..."

Well, most Arthurians have to have some element of romance... the stories are built around several romances, doomed or otherwise.

[Matt]

Margaret wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Tina wrote: "OH. My. GAWD.

I will be all over this thread like a shrunken tunic on a barbarian. I positively, absolutely ADORE Arthurian Fiction. With all my heart. It is my favori..."

I understand that there will be some level of romance, but would this novel be considered a 'Romance Novel' with a historical background? Or along the lines of Bernard Cornwell?

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

I've heard it's more a straight historical novel than a romance novel. The romantic themes are there, but not paramount.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I have heard it is more romance with an historical background.
Not a romance book, per se, but a romance-centric version of the Arthur story.

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Terri wrote: "I have heard it is more romance with an historical background.
Not a romance book, per se, but a romance-centric version of the Arthur story."

Isn't it interesting the way people interpret books differently?

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

It is.

In fact, I have just had an author contacting me wanting to give me a copy of her book to read for review. It is most definitely what I would call romance/love story heavy, but the author doesn't agree.
Her view on what constitutes romance and my view on what constitutes romance are poles apart. :)
The book isn't smut romance, it is one of those historical romance ones (the female marketed historical fiction types). But i think the author thinks romance means smut. Full blown romance books.

But then again....now I think on it, if the author didn't think her book was historical romance, why has she joined a million romance GR groups and is marketing her book as romance....????

[Tim]

Being completely pedantic, all the original medieval stories of Arthur are officially termed "romances" - as that is the title of the genre they belong to. This does not mean bodices are ripped however. You can learn more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalri...

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

Tim wrote: "Being completely pedantic, all the original medieval stories of Arthur are officially termed "romances" - as that is the title of the genre they belong to. This does not mean bodices are ripped how..."

All the medieval versions, yes. Don't use "original" as much of the Arthurian canon has its roots in Celtic myth. *grins* I've had this discussion many, many times with a friend of mine who is a medieval scholar.

She is an expert in the French medieval Arthurian literature. We've spent many happy hours arguing backwards, forwards and sideways over the various versions of the Arthurian canon.

If I REALLY want to rattle her cage, I chuck that appalling TV show "Merlin" into the conversation. Sure fire way to make a medievalist self combust. :D

[Tim]

Margaret wrote: "Tim wrote: "Being completely pedantic, all the original medieval stories of Arthur are officially termed "romances" - as that is the title of the genre they belong to. This does not mean bodices ar..."

Ah, -holds up forefinger- but the surviving welsh tales you refer to were actually mostly written down after some of those medieval romances. Y Gododdyn for example might be attributed to a 6th century poet but only survives from a 13th century manuscript. The Black Book of Carmarthen was written about 1250. Chretian de Troyes was writing his Lancelot sometime in the late 1100s. It certainly looks like the welsh tales are older given their subject and setting, but we've no actual proof and the manuscripts they are in are in fact surprizingly younger than the era their stories are set in - perhaps an older incarnation of Historical Fiction?

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

It doesn't matter so much when it was written down, Celtic mythos was orally related, after all.

What matters is that much of the Arthurian canon is rooted in Welsh tradition.

Saying the stories are less valid because they weren't written down until after the medieval versions, is like saying that the Maori mythos only dates from the 19th Century because that is when they were transcribed into English.

[Matt]

Thank you for the responses. I read the sample on my kindle and feel it's good enough to give it a try. Now, I wait for it to make it to my library.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Tim wrote: "Being completely pedantic, all the original medieval stories of Arthur are officially termed "romances" - as that is the title of the genre they belong to. This does not mean bodices are ripped how..."


All uses of the term 'romance' are not equals. Especially when it comes to using it to describe a style of writing. It isn't that there is a romance in it, it is that it is a romance.
:)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I have to say that, in regards to the Helen Hollick book... I have not read it and do not know (I have heard from some who know my taste well), but people's interpretations of gritty and non romantic differ.

An example would be Sharon Kay Penman. There is no end to people saying her books are not romance or historical soap opera in feel. Having now tried her, I can categorically say that, for my tastes, they are very wrong.

I guess the moral of the story is that, Matthew, you will just have to find out for yourself on that Hollick book, because only you will know whether it is too girly for you.. :)

[Matt]

LOL. Terry, I'll let you know the result. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Make sure you do. ;)

[Matt]

OK, I read the first of Helen Hollick's Arthur novels. I gave it 3 stars. I felt like there was a lot of romance, but other than that the book is well done. I like the politics involved, and I like the fact that the story has a good amount of focus on Hengest/Vortigern/Vortimer etc. My favorite on Arthur is still BC by far.

[Dawn]

That would be The Kingmaking??

I have I Am the Chosen King out right now myself. I wonder if it will have a lot of romance as well?

[Matt]

Yes, The Kingmaking. I have started book 2, Pendragon's Banner, because I am interested to see where she goes with it and hoping it's a little lighter on the romance side. It's slow going right now though, because I'm also reading The Pillars of the Earth and the sun is finally out.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether I Am the Chosen King has a lot of romance when you get around to reading it.

[Dawn]

I'll let you know, I have a nice 5 day weekend coming up so I'm hoping to get it started!

[Matt]

I'm about done with book 2 of Helen Hollick's series, Pendragon's Banner. It has less romance than the first one and is definitely a good read. I will be giving it 4 stars. I haven't read the 'Game of Thrones' series, but I have watched the first two season. Hollick's series has the same vibe, there is a lot of political intrigue involved in the series.

[Matt]

Dawn wrote: "I'll let you know, I have a nice 5 day weekend coming up so I'm hoping to get it started!"

Have you been able to read I Am the Chosen King?

[Dawn]

I did.

I liked the history but found the story a bit long and drawn out. Definitely well written though and in no way was it romancecentric. There was a nice even feel to the male/female POV's. It's more about the political and personal story rather than any war/battles.

[DeepTiNkEr5]

Anyone here has read Beowulf right?

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Not me. But I know enough about it to bluff my way through a discussion on him.:)

[Margaret, Sherlockian Sheila]

I read Beowulf many years ago. Both in English and in Anglo-Saxon (which I don't actually read, but it's amazing how much you can puzzle out). :p

[Violet]

I joined this group partly because of recently reading Rosemary Sutcliff's Sword at Sunset

It was for me one of the best books I've ever read in my life. She took me right into Arthur's head and heart and didn't let me out for 500 pages, or however long it was. I see various King Arthur books recommended here and elsewhere and it amazes me that she is often not included in the lists. That book is fantastic, and left me emotionally wrung out for weeks. I even went out and found a first edition hardcover, just because.

Anyway, because of Sword at Sunset, I'm now intensely interested in finding more excellent Arthur stories, and have perused a few of the other threads here. Thanks for the recommendations!