The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
Arthur Conan Doyle Collection
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Reading Schedule
message 51:
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Deborah, Moderator
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Jun 19, 2012 12:10PM
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TENTATIVE SCHEDULE: Please discuss. If I'm being too ambitious, don't hesitate to say so. (I read fast, and even though I still have teaching duties during the summer, it is not the same type of busyness as during the fall/spring semesters so I have the time to read everything.)Novels/short stories:
July 1-July 7: A Study in Scarlet (Part 1)
July 8-July 14: A Study in Scarlet (Part 2)
July 15-July 21: The Valley of Fear (Part 1)
July 22-July 28: The Valley of Fear (Part 2)/The Adventure of the Dancing Men
July 29-August 4: The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans; The Naval Treaty
August 5-August 11: The Five Orange Pips; A Scandal in Bohemia
August 12-August 18: The Hound of the Baskervilles (Part 1)
August 19-August 25: The Hound of the Baskervilles (Part 2)
August 26-September 1: The Final Problem
Film/TV adaptations (correspond - for the most part - with the readings):
(NOTE: I am going to set up two threads for the Film/TV adaptations: one for the recent BBC Sherlock series and one for Brett/Rathbone/Other. People can watch how much or how little they want. But the information is there whatever someone wants to do.)
July 1-July 7: A Study in Pink (BBC Sherlock)
July 8-July 14: A Study in Scarlet (Reginald Owen)
July 15-July 21: The Blind Banker (BBC Sherlock)
July 22-July 28: The Dancing Men (Brett)
July 29-August 4: The Great Game (BBC Sherlock); The Naval Treaty (Brett); The Bruce Partington Plans (Brett)
August 5-August 11: A Scandal in Belgravia (BBC Sherlock); A Scandal in Bohemia (Brett)
August 12-August 18: The Hound of the Baskervilles (BBC Sherlock)
August 19-August 25: The Hound of the Baskervilles (Rathbone)
August 26-September 1: The Reichenbach Fall (BBC Sherlock); The Final Problem (Brett); Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (Rathbone)
WAYS TO WATCH (for the youtube videos, I will post links at the start of the discussions):
BBC Sherlock: See post above for ways to view
Jeremy Brett television series: On Netflix (streaming) and from what I can see also on youtube
Basil Rathbone: On Netflix (DVD) and on youtube
Reginald Owen: On youtube
Are these side reads? Are we not voting for another read for August and September??I don't think I could take detective fiction for three months:(:( We might as well become a Sherlock Holmes club:(
If side reads, fair enough but if main readsthen I strongly disagree. Sorry.
MadgeUK wrote: "Don't yo have to have another i-gadget to play i-tunes?"No - you can download iTunes from the Apple web site on to any PC. I did it so long ago that I can't remember the exact process. But if I was able to do it, it wasn't difficult. I'm not very tech savvy.
MadgeUK wrote: "Are these side reads? Are we not voting for another read for August and September??I don't think I could take detective fiction for three months:(:( We might as well become a Sherlock Holmes cl..."
This is for the July-August read - two months just like all other reads. Don't get confused with the September date - it is only September 1. July 1 through September 1 - two months. The last day in August is on a Friday so I just extended one day so we can have the entire week.
I won't bother - if necessary I'll look at a Youtube one. I don't like to download stuff willy nilly.
There are already a lot of Sherlock Holmes clubs on GR so don't let's go overboard:-http://www.goodreads.com/group/search...
Don't think I can cope with all those detective stories over two months. I don't like short stories at the best of times and next to romance and sc-fi, detective fiction is my least favourite genre.
Thank goodness it is gardening weather! (And I can migrate to Russian Lit.)
MadgeUK wrote: "I won't bother - if necessary I'll look at a Youtube one. I don't like to download stuff willy nilly."Totally understand. But iTunes might be worth it. Besides the usual music, they have a lot of free podcasts, and even free television shows.
I'm not a big Apple fan, but I do like iTunes.
I had not realised when Study in Scarlet was nominated that we would then launch into other SH stories. I thought that because it was a short book we would then vote for something else. When shorter novels have been chosen in the past we have then gone on to another novel, usually the second choice. I had not caught up with the discussion with Silver - sorry:(.
But if it has been decided OK. I'll entertain myself elsewhere. Short stories AND Holmes is just too too much for me.
(Afterthought: Looking at the Poll, I think it might have been better to have done two/three weeks with Study in Scarlet and two/three weeks with The Importance of Being Earnest as there was only 2 votes between them.)
Mod
Also, just an interesting note, Conan Doyle came to HATE Sherlock and that's why he tried to kill him off. The fans complained so much that he felt he had to bring him back. Doyle would have truly enjoyed your feelings about Holmes.
Madge, Would it be better if all we added to Study in Scarlet was one long work, such as The Hound of the Baskervilles? I read that about five years ago, and enjoyed it then. I remember it as having a very gothic flavor. And for those who want to do a parallel video thread, there are multiple film versions out there. Like Deborah, I would miss you!
Sherlock Holmes is great for the summer months. Let's keep it the way it is. Unfortunately, my personal anthology doesn't include Valley of Fear and the Final Problem, but I'm sure I can find them at the library.
Deborah wrote: "Madge - I'm not a fan of short stories, but love Holmes. I also love detective fiction, but I hate the fact that you might not be reading with us. I always learn something from your comments, plu..."I know, I will miss Madge if she doesn't participate. :-( When I emailed her, I had to pretend that I understood and that she shouldn't torture herself if she didn't like the genre. But I really wanted to beg - she has wonderful insight.
Research, if Madge agrees, might be a solution and would be wonderful. On Bell. On the original illustrations - a lot of people are downloading via Kindle or Nook so they are missing the wonderful original illustration. Also, fan fiction - did fan fiction start as a genre when Doyle killed off Sherlock, and fans began to write their own stories? In my studies, I've never seen fan fiction before Sherlock - but could be very wrong.
And there are a lot of scholarly essays, so much so I could never get to them on my own. I don't think Madge has access to a university database system, but Google Scholar has some.
Madge? What do you think?
Emily wrote: "Sherlock Holmes is great for the summer months. Let's keep it the way it is. Unfortunately, my personal anthology doesn't include Valley of Fear and the Final Problem, but I'm sure I can find the..."Hi Emily - I had the same issues - I have the Original Illustrated Sherlock Holmes, and it is missing A Study in Scarlet and a few others. So I went to the library, and they had the complete works.
If you can't find at your library, I posted somewhere some of the prices of Amazon and B&N for the complete works on an eBook - I think both were like $2.99.
Lynnm wrote: "Casceil wrote: "I just checked Amazon.com, and many forms of Sherlock are available there, for a price of course. Both seasons of the recent BBC series are available either on DVD or for instant do..."I've been surfing around. SinS has rarely been filmed as written because of its view of Mormonism, so I'm not concerned about the videos. Only the title and a few character names were used for the 1933 version, and the story was not used at all. Several other versions removed the entire second half of the book and substituted another plotline for it.
http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/cat...
Thanks for your kind words folks. I will try but don't hold out much hope - I not only dislike Holmes but I dislike Doyle too - a drug addict who believed in fairies!Casceil's solution at post 61 seems a better idea to me than a series of short stories and the location of HotB is also interesting.
MadgeUK wrote: "Thanks for your kind words folks. I will try but don't hold out much hope - I not only dislike Holmes but I dislike Doyle too - a drug addict who believed in fairies!Casceil's solution at post 61..."
Do you belong to any other book groups here? We think we're special and we love you, but we're not the only game in town.
I belong to a Russian Literature one but as I started this group with Chris for particular reasons, I am somewhat partial to it and the people in it. I do like to be 'clubbable' and I always try to participate in reads here. I am not one of those who nominate or discuss avidly and then do not join in the read when it appears. I treat the group rather as I would any real club, taking the rough with the smooth. These July-to-September reads are just a bit much this time. I am now sorry I said so and will butt out.I also realise I am out of sync with the new BBC series which has been hugely popular worldwide and has sparked new interest in Holmes, especially in the US (and we need the money!).
What and when is the next Dickens' Project read?
MadgeUK wrote: "What and when is the next Dickens' Project read?."The Old Curiosity Shop is scheduled to go until July 21st and after that Barnaby Rudge is listed as the next book.
MadgeUK wrote: "I belong to a Russian Literature one but as I started this group with Chris for particular reasons, I am somewhat partial to it and the people in it. I do like to be 'clubbable' and I always try t..."I like to be clubbale here even when I'm NOT reading the current book. It's one of few places I have where the group isn't judgmental.
Madge, there's no reason you can't have buddy reads during this period.
Rochelle wrote: "I've been surfing around. SinS has rarely been filmed as written because of its view of Mormonism, so I'm not concerned about the videos. Only the title and a few character names were used for the 1933 version, and the story was not used at all. Several other versions removed the entire second half of the book and substituted another plotline for it."I'm glad you brought this up. Our discussions on Part II are going to be complicated by the way Mormonism is portrayed.
I knew it was coming because I had researched the novel before I started reading it. I did what I always do when faced with a passage of text that is politically incorrect - i.e., anti-a certain religious
group, racist, sexist, etc. I use it as a teachable moment of intolerance, stereotypes and discrimination. (If we throw out every text that is politcally incorrect, we would have little left.) And while we don't want to get into a political discussion, it is quite obvious that many people have problems with Romney because he is a Mormom. This is an opportunity to see where some of that misunderstanding comes from.
Plus, I actually found Part II more fascinating than Part I. Why did Doyle decide to move the story to the western portion of the U.S.? Why Mormons?
It's a discussion for Part II, but in case others are doing some research and weren't prepared for that angle, now they are forewarned.
[As for the films, I think that the BBC series did a good job with Part I - I don't want to give a spoiler, but actually Part II for the most part isn't necessary. I haven't watched the Reginald Owen version yet, but will this week. I'm interested to see what they do. But when we get there, we can discuss that as well.]
I have posted a little piece about Doyle and Mormonism in the Background & Resources section.
Lynnm wrote: "I'm glad you brought this up. Our discussions on Part II are going to be complicated by the way Mormonism is portrayed..."Owen version uses only the title of the book. The way Mormonism was portrayed is way beyond.... never mind. we'll do it when we get to it.
By "BBC series," you mean the recent one on PBS with the pig-eyed guy?
LOL Rochelle - you'll be saying he looks like Romney next!:D
I asked because of the recent BBC radio series.
Lynnm wrote: "Casceil wrote: "I just checked Amazon.com, and many forms of Sherlock are available there, for a price of course. Both seasons of the recent BBC series are available either on DVD or for instant do..."How we've evolved. We were content for 3 years to read just the books. Now we need the videos too? Should we have viewed all the versions of Jane Eyre while we read? ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Eyr...
Click on "Motion Picture Versions (1910–1926)" and
s
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Hey, I *collect* Jane Eyres! How funny you should hit on one of my hobbies. I lament the ones that are lost and that I shall never see...;^)
Rochelle wrote: "How we've evolved. We were content for 3 years to read just the books. Now we need the videos too? ;-)"Short answer: in this particular case, yes.
Long answer: when we begin our discussion, I'll be glad to post my thoughts.
Lynnm, the schedule looks fine to me. I'm eager to get started with this group, and this is my first read with you.
Jessie wrote: "Hey, I *collect* Jane Eyres! How funny you should hit on one of my hobbies. I lament the ones that are lost and that I shall never see...;^)"
Some were not worth seeing, so you can cross those off, reducing it considerably.
Jessie wrote: "Lynnm, the schedule looks fine to me. I'm eager to get started with this group, and this is my first read with you."Jessie, I'm glad you are joining us. And I'm really looking forward to the start of the discussion. I wish it would just start! :-)
Rochelle wrote: "Some were not worth seeing, so you ..."I've watched a couple of the JE films, but it was awhile ago so don't remember them well except that I enjoyed them.
I like comparing film/tv versions of my favorite books. For one of my grad school papers, I did a comparison of three Pride & Prejudice film versions, going from the Greer Garson version, to the A&E version, and then the Keira Knightley version. That was a lot of fun. [For the record, I like the A&E version the best. It stayed close to the book, and the director/actors didn't stray from the conventional interpretation of the text. And no, it has nothing to do with Colin Firth coming out of the lake without his shirt...]
Mod
I've watched a couple of the JE films, but it was awhile ago so don't remember them well except that I enjoyed them.
I like comparing film..."
Likely story, I think it was definitely the shirtless detail ;-)
Went to B&N with my nephew to help him get books for his summer reading and found these editions of SH for a good price (about $8 each), so got them:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10...
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10...
Lynnm wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "Some were not worth seeing, so you ..."I've watched a couple of the JE films, but it was awhile ago so don't remember them well except that I enjoyed them.
I like comparing film..."
My favorite Jane Eyres: 1972 w Susannah York and George C. Scott, about 5 years ago with Ruth Wilson and Toby Stephens. They both had great charm, and you can see the attraction. There was one about 10 years ago with William Hurt and Charlotte Gainsbourg, and he was so dark and unpleasant that I would have left him in the burning mansion. A new one came out last year, and for the first time Jane really is 16 or 18, but I missed it.
Mod
Is there any version better than the Timothy Dalton one?
Frances - that is the one that I remember - the one with Timothy Dalton - that was wonderful.Rochelle - I was slightly too young in 1972 to watch Jane Eyre - just on the border age wise of liking those types of movies - I'll have to look to see if they have it on Netflix. But I do slightly remember the William Hurt one - I must not have liked it or I would have definitely remembered it.
Jessie wrote: "Went to B&N with my nephew to help him get books for his summer reading and found these editions of SH for a good price (about $8 each), so got them:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10......"
Definitely B&N if people are looking for a good hardcopy of the complete works. My local B&N has one for $6.99.
MadgeUK wrote: "There are already a lot of Sherlock Holmes clubs on GR so don't let's go overboard:-"Yes, there are ... I've joined one of those clubs, and even though I still enjoy skimming its discussion threads, there's not much going on at the moment. For the time being, this group is far more interesting, I'd say.
And Lynnm, you gave me an idea ... I'm definitely going to look for some scholarly essays, since I have got access to a university database system. I just hope nobody expects me to present my 'research results' Homes-style :)
(Sorry for being seemingly off-topic ... haven't been keeping up with the discussion for a while)
Deborah wrote: "Likely story, I think it was definitely the shirtless detail ;-)"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;)
Jo wrote: "And Lynnm, you gave me an idea ... I'm definitely going to look for some scholarly essays, since I have got access to a university database system. I just hope nobody expects me to present my 'research results' Homes-style :"Jo - there's some great essays - I just haven't had time to really concentrate on it.
And no, definitely don't have to present Holmes-style! lol!
Jessie wrote: "Hey, I *collect* Jane Eyres! How funny you should hit on one of my hobbies. I lament the ones that are lost and that I shall never see...;^)"
Interesting tangential discussion! I have seen most of them, but I own the Joan Fontaine/Orson Welles, Zelah Clarke/Timothy Dalton, and Samantha Morton/Ciaran Hinds versions. I also have two Wuthering Heights - Laurence Olivier/Merle Oberon, and the one aka "Withering Tights", with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche. Plus the Tara Fitzgerald version of The Tenant of Wildfell Hall (don't know if there were any others). But I have even more Jane Austen adaptations - 2 Sense and Sensibility, 3 Pride and Prejudice, 1 Mansfield Park, 2 Emma, 1 Northanger Abbey, and 3 Persuasion. Plus Clueless and Bridget Jones' Diary! I do love watching these adaptations of some of my favorite novels by some of my favorite authors! I also have the various Elizabeth Gaskell miniseries, a BBC adaptation of Vanity Fair, and just got a set of five BBC adaptations of George Eliot's novels. My favorite screenwriter for these is Andrew Davies.
Denise wrote: "Interesting tangential discussion! ..."I like the Joan Fontaine/Orson Welles version, except I always hate it when he has a false nose.
The Samantha Morton/Ciaran Hinds one is one of my favs.
I liked Jane in the Ruth Wilson/Toby Stephens version.
And the new Mia Wasikowska/Michael Fassbender is...oh my! But I love Michael Fassbender.
I hate the William Hurt and George C. Scott versions.
I like Ciaran Hinds in anything! He isn't handsome, but there's something about him... I particularly like him in Persuasion.I particularly liked Toby Stephens as Rochester. He wasn't as ugly as Rochester should be (but then, they rarely are!), but I thought his performance was good.
I love seeing such a young Elizabeth Taylor and also Margaret O'Brien in the Fontaine/Welles version.
Denise wrote: "But I have even more Jane Austen adaptations - 2 Sense and Sensibility, 3 Pride and Prejudice, 1 Mansfield Park, 2 Emma, 1 Northanger Abbey, and 3 Persuasion. Plus Clueless and Bridget Jones' Diary! "Love these too! Big Jane fan here. :-)
Also like Lost in Austen.
Jessie wrote: "And the new Mia Wasikowska/Michael Fassbender is...oh my! But I love Michael Fassbender."
I keep hearing how wonderful Michael Fassbender is, but somehow I've never seen anything with him in it. I'm going to have to look for something on Netflix.
Any recommendations on which film to start with?
Lynnm wrote: "I keep hearing how wonderful Michael Fassbender is, but somehow I've never seen anything w..."I first saw him in the mini-series "Band of Brothers": then I next saw him in "300". Whoa baby! Anything after that was magic for me. :^)
Right now he is in "Prometheus" at the theater. My daughter is also a big fan, and she said "Hunger" was very good (haven't had a chance to watch it yet--a film about Bobby Sands).
Thanks, Jessie! Band of Brothers sounds good. And just by your reaction, "300" sounds good as well! ;) I plan on seeing Prometheus when it comes to Netflix.When I first saw "Hunger," I thought Hunger Games. :-) My fault - just finishing the last of the trilogy so it is on my mind.
Lynnm wrote: "Denise wrote: "But I have even more Jane Austen adaptations - 2 Sense and Sensibility, 3 Pride and Prejudice, 1 Mansfield Park, 2 Emma, 1 Northanger Abbey, and 3 Persuasion. Plus Clueless and Bridg..."I've heard of Lost in Austen, but I've never seen it. However, I have an unrelated book called Lost in Austen, which is one of those 'choose your adventure' books, where you choose which action to take and get directed to different pages. The objective is to marry Darcy. I haven't gotten there, though. The first time I tried, I got locked in the upstairs nursery with Fanny Price and bored to death! LOL!
Denise wrote: "The objective is to marry Darcy. I haven't gotten there, though. The first time I tried, I got locked in the upstairs nursery with Fanny Price and bored to death! LOL!"Sounds like a fun objective to me! Too bad though you got stuck with Fanny Price...that would be boring. :-) Poor Fanny - and I like Fanny - she's just a bit uptight at times.
I think you would like Lost in Austen, the BBC mini-series (I think BBC - but definitely out of England). It's amusing.
