The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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A Study in Scarlet
Arthur Conan Doyle Collection
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A Study in Scarlet 2012 - Background and Resources
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Linda2
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Jun 27, 2012 06:49AM
Every computer program (and every system) has either "Preferences" or "Options" in the Menu Bar. Sometimes it's "Tools--Options," occasionally "File--Preferences." That's the first thing I look for when installing a new program.
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We're getting OT here. If you have Q's, ask me in "Croissants."
Marialyce has put up some interesting background on the Victorians board:http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/9...
I haven't gone through the links on this thread yet, but here is one from Marialyce that looks as if it may be particularly interesting -- it also may be somewhere on this thread already:
http://www.sherlockholmesonline.org/
It calls itself the "Official Web Site of the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate."
Thanks, Lily! That is a very good site. Some of the information I found on other sites and was going to bring into the discussions, but great to have it out there now.
My first reading of a whodunit detective was Ellery Queen... I consumed the Queen stories as a tween. They were short, easy to read, based in America, and had a nice dose of personality and psychological relationships -- all good qualifications for an introduction to the genre to a youngster (a step up from Nancy Drew :).Sherlock Holmes is another kettle of fish entirely, tho' the mystery and the clues are still my main motivation for reading detective stories. This will be fun!
Janice George wrote: "My first reading of a whodunit detective was Ellery Queen... I consumed the Queen stories as a tween. They were short, easy to read, based in America, and had a nice dose of personality and psycho..."Janice, so glad you are joining us! I really enjoyed your perspectives on the readings when we did The Magic Ring.
I've never read Ellery Queen - I'll have to check it out. But I did read Nancy Drew when I was younger. :-)
Janice George wrote: "My first reading of a whodunit detective was Ellery Queen... I consumed the Queen stories as a tween. They were short, easy to read, based in America, and had a nice dose of personality and psycho..."I, too, read the Ellery Queen as a tween. Wasn't much for Nancy Drew, but Queen took over when I outgrew the Hardy Boys. I think my favorite growing up was Perry Mason (the books, and the old B&W tv show.) Still enjoy the books.
Pamela - I remember the old Perry Mason tv show. Probably one of the best, and definitely one of the first in that genre.
In Chapter 1 Watson mentions 'standing at the Criterion Bar'. This is the bar adjacent to the underground Criterion theatre, near Piccadilly Circus. It was originally a 17C posting inn but in Conan Doyle's time was opened as a theatre with an adjoining restaurant. Both are still there and both offer very good fare! (When you come to London Lynn.....)http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Criterio...
http://www.squaremeal.co.uk/restauran...
Watson and 'young Stamford', who introduced him to SH, took a Hansom Cab to Holborn restaurant, a cab like this one perhaps:-
http://vichist.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06...
Here is a description of the Holborn restaurant and the Victorian table d'hote menu which Watson and Stamford may have enjoyed:-
http://www.victorianlondon.org/public...
This map gives some info about locations in the books :-
http://londonist.com/2009/11/the_lond...
And there is a map of the BBC SH locations on this 'Sherlockology' website:-
http://www.sherlockology.com/locations
MadgeUK wrote: "In Chapter 1 Watson mentions 'standing at the Criterion Bar'. This is the bar adjacent to the underground Criterion theatre, near Piccadilly Circus. It was originally a 17C posting inn but in Con..."Thanks for all that information, Madge! (One of our best researchers...)
And will definitely check out the bar and restaurant when I'm in London next year.
Along with St. Bart's - don't want to give away BBC Sherlock spoilers, but suffice to say that St. Bart's plays a very big role in one of the episodes.
Not so much research Lynn as having lived and worked in London for over 30 years:). I've taken various visitors to many of these 'literary' landmarks.
Just remembered this video - a Q&A in NYC just before the BBC Sherlock series 2 was aired on PBS with Benedict Cumberbatch and Steven Moffat. Answers a lot of questions about the show:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MltF5...
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We got some of them. Inspector Morse is now being re-run on PBS in some areas. I've seen at least one episode of almost all of those. I, too, loved the Rosemary and Thyme ones.
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I didn't like Dexter because it was so gruesome. Tried to read one of the books but it was so poorly written (IMO) that I couldn't get passed a few pages.
Madge, it doesn't appear that the Elizabeth Gaskell listed in Romney's lineage is the Elizabeth Gaskell, the writer. The writer was born Elizabeth Stevenson in 1810, while Romney's ancester was born Elizabeth Gaskell in 1806. I don't see any relationship with Elizabeth Gaskell (born 1806) of Preston, England and William Gaskell, the author's husband who was born in Cheshire.
Oh good Emily! I am relieved about that:).Have edited that post and moved it to Part 2.
MadgeUK wrote: "This map gives some info about locations in the books :-http://londonist.com/2009/11/the_lond..."
Brilliant! That website will be bookmarked - indispensable for my next trip to London. Thanks for sharing.
Jo wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "This map gives some info about locations in the books :-http://londonist.com/2009/11/the_lond..."
Brilliant! That website will be bookmarked - indispensable for my next trip to L..."
I want the £85 sandwich. And this article is a hoot!
Jo wrote: "MadgeUK wrote: "This map gives some info about locations in the books :-http://londonist.com/2009/11/the_lond..."
Brilliant! That website will be bookmarked - indispensable for my next trip to L..."
I did the same for my trip to London next year - and glad to see that everything is pretty much in the same area.
BunWat wrote: "A Study in Scarlet was written in 1886. At the time the LDS church and the US government had been engaged in an ongoing conflict for thirty years. There were three main problems, the first being ..."Thanks for the information...that's great!
This is the one Holmes story that showcases the style that will follow in all of the other stories. I've read it so many times an I learn something new every time. I am glad this group is tackling it here, I'm seeing really good discussions ... Thanks
Eduardo wrote: "This is the one Holmes story that showcases the style that will follow in all of the other stories. I've read it so many times an I learn something new every time. I am glad this group is tackling..."Eduardo - feel free to join in the discussions!
BunWat wrote: "A Study in Scarlet was written in 1886. At the time the LDS church and the US government had been engaged in an ongoing conflict for thirty years. There were three main problems, the first being ..."Thanks BunWat - I'm not reading A Study in Scarlet, but I had never learned about this history of Mormonism in Utah, and it is interesting.
Here is a set of 1993 British stamps showing various illustrations of SH with some background info:-http://www.trussel.com/detfic/sherloc...
You can also buy these cards in the UK showing the illustrations:-
http://cult-stuff.com/?page_id=761
This board game looks fun and you could learn your way around London too!:-
http://www.unclesgames.com/product_in...
Fans may also like to try these SH card games:-
http://www.gamecabinet.com/sumo/Issue...
http://www.unclesgames.com/product_in...
I learned my way around London playing 'Scotland Yard' :)
I know what you mean. I bought my North London children a board came called Taxi years ago which used an excellent map of London and they were experts at getting around long before they actually visited the city!
Don't know this board game, Madge, but it must have been fun getting to know the city in a playful way.I know I'm going off-topic now ... but I just have to mention I think it's partly due to my obsession with Cluedo and Scotland Yard and Agatha Christie (in my childhood) that I'm so fascinated by Doyle's works these days.
Yes, it may well be:)http://www.vintagetoysgames.co.uk/tax...
This is the updated version of the taxi game, showing new venues:-
http://www.hellodere.com/cabbie.htm
Sweet! But having read A Study in Scarlet, 'cabbie' takes on a whole new meaning ... to me at least. I think that's also because something about the cab driver in the BBC Sherlock film really unsettled me.
MadgeUK wrote: "Yes, it may well be:)http://www.vintagetoysgames.co.uk/tax...
This is the updated version of the taxi game, showing new venues:-
http://www.hellodere.com/cabbie.htm"
I like the vintage one, showing the Thames. It would be nice, however, if someone bought up the cabbie's patent and produced the game or a similar one. But, who knows, may be sticky re the status of the Vintage Game. Still, neat idea, although not sure Papas would want to take home their itineraries. Better to just sell with games and puzzles, is my initial market sense reaction -- possibly with educational learning games and in museum shops, as well as certain tourist souvenir shops.
Re Indians/DNA posts on the Part II thread:The same things are happening in Britain..
Yes, I have seen some of the stuff being done in the UK which shows, for instance, how many of us from the North of England (probably myself) are related to the Vikings. One study obtained the DNA of some racists and several of them were surprised to find that they had negro blood in their veins:). We now have quite a large DNA national database, recovered from crime scenes and criminal suspects:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_K...
I don't know much about the medical side of these things Bunwat but don't negroes have a different blood group? We have NHS advertisements about this over here asking them to donate blood because their group is in short supply in our national blood bank. Sickle-cell disease is common amongst our Caribbean population and that is sometimes treated by blood transfusion. BTW the Blood Transfusion Service over here, formed in 1946, is completely free and administered by the NHS:http://blood.co.uk/
MadgeUK, the following link tells you why a certain type of blood is required for blacks:http://www.redcrossblood.org/learn-ab...
The paragraph you want begins with "Blood Types and the Population."
BunWat wrote: "The genetic markers of migration patterns within the human population don't actually align very well with the old concepts of race."I agree with that; however, "old concepts" of race (if you mean the old anthropological caucasoid-, negroid-, mongoloid-based terms) have been out the door in the scientific community for quite a while.
The DNA studies and migration patterns do align with *place.* As long as people understand that these studies identify what is termed as "deep" ancestry or "deep" genealogy (10,000 years plus), I don't see a problem.
Previously, we tended to group peoples in terms of early language usage. This was also extremely inelegant. One thing that I'm finding fascinating with current DNA studies is that groups that were previously grouped together, biologically, because of early language usage really only had a cultural history, *very* early on.
Personally, I believe that DNA studies draw us together more as humans rather than wedge us apart.
MadgeUK wrote: "I don't know much about the medical side of these things Bunwat but don't negroes have a different blood group? We have NHS advertisements about this over here asking them to donate blood because t..."Sickle Cell is a genetic modification in response to malaria. It's not a different blood type, but a blood disorder.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhea...
There are other genetic disorders based on responses to environment (the one with fava beans, but I can't remember it...).
Wait, here it is!
http://suite101.com/article/what-is-f...
BunWat wrote: "No black people absolutely DO NOT belong to a different blood group than white people. The various blood types have a somewhat different distribution among different populations, so a certain type..."The term "black blood," historically, had a different meaning in the U.S. (other than with a strictly scientific purpose). You've heard terms like "quadroon" and "octoroon," I'm sure, as measurements of how much "black blood" a person has in their genealogy.
Certain "blood quantum" laws for "Other" populations in the U.S. (specifically African and Native American) were used to promote racist agendas in the past.
And there is some friction between African and Native American communities in the U.S. because of the fallout of certain aspects of these laws (and other issues).
As an aside, I noticed I used "Native American" when I got in lecture mode. ;^)
BunWat wrote: "I agree that the old notions of racial groupings "have been out the door in the scientific community for quite a while. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be translating very well into the general population, media, or popular culture. Seems like those old ideas are sticking around pretty stubbornly and its a really really slow process to get people to let go of them."That's very true. And I try to do my part to get folks to let go. Hey, I'm a liberal atheist living in the Republican Bible Belt! I know all about preachin' to the unwilling.
;^)
BunWat wrote: "Speaking of sickle cell and anti malarial adaptations, there is a theory that black african slavery took hold the way it did in the US in part because people from Sub Saharan Africa have malarial r..."Lots of theories floating around. The indigeneous populations in the Americas tended to die out rather than be enslaved.
Following are some interesting CDC maps of malarial influence in the U.S. I love the CDC and the WHO websites! I find myself going there frequently for information.
http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/hist...
As an(other) aside, most people forget that slavery was a condition of almost the entire colonial and early United States until the Industrial Revolution made it more economically desirable to drift away from a primarily agrarian economy.
All this is outside my expertise but I did know that they can tell what areas of the world your ancestors came from - as you all said, place. Between that and a search of your paternal and maternal family names can give you additional background.
You folks are making me sound very racist!!! This is not the case at all and I did NOT think that black people had different blood to white people, just that it was a different blood group/type. I am '0' but I know that my black inlaws from Trinidad are not. When my Trinidadian husband and I gave blood I was told that mine was a common group but his was not. Consequently he was on a different register to me so that he could be called for emergency sickle-cell transfusions. Please bear in mind that I have had no scientific education whatsoever and do not understand scientific terminology.Now please do not blind me with science or imply that I am racist!! Finis!!
The indigeneous populations in the Americas tended to die out rather than be enslaved.
If you are suggesting that they died on purpose rather than be taken as slaves, this in itself is rather a racist p.o.v. which implies that they were made of sterner stuff than black people:( Africans might have preferred to have died on a slave ship but alas! millions of the poor things lived. Slaves did not have a choice about living and dying; they were hunted, captured, shackled, transported, sold and enslaved against their will in far off places.
How many Native Americans were hunted down and enslaved in this way?
... most people forget that slavery was a condition of almost the entire colonial and early United States until the the Industrial Revolution made it more economically desirable to drift away from a primarily agrarian economy.
The agitation for the ending of the slave trade in the UK was made when it was still highly profitable to keep slaves, especially in the British West Indies. The arguments put to Parliament by opponents of Wilberforce and others were all about the economic losses the slave owners and the country would suffer if slavery was ended. Similarly, I think the end of slavery came in the US at a time when cotton plantations were still highly profitable. The efficient mechanisation of sugar corn and cotton picking was still quite a long way off.
Many of the Indians died because of the new diseases brought to the New World by the Europeans. They had no resistance to even common ailments, like measles. This weaken the group as a whole. I've seen statistics like 80% of the Indians in certain areas were killed by diseases.http://www.nativeamericannetroots.net...
...indigenous populations in the Americas had poor resistance to European diseases. Whereas africans had better resistance because there had been more contact between Africa and Europe...Many Africans also died of European diseases like measles. Diseases like smallpox,cholera and dysentry ravaged the slave ships and were carried to the Caribbean islands where, in some cases, whole populations of slaves and native Amerindians died.
It is not a matter of who is stronger. This also happened to the Maori and Aborigine peoples upon their first contact with Europeans. Any people who have not previously been in contact with such diseases are prone to catch them, especially if they have been previously weakened by bad treatment and malnutrition whilst in captivity or on the sort of trek endured by American Indians.
A slave captain wrote in 1787: "With our ships, the great object is, to be full. When the ship is there, it is thought desirable, she should take as many as possible. The cargo of a vessel of a hundred tons, or little more, is calculated to purchase from two hundred and twenty to two hundred and fifty slaves. Their lodging-rooms below the deck, which are three (for the men, the boys, and the women) besides a place for the sick, are sometimes more than five feet high, and sometimes less; and this height is divided towards the middle, for the slaves lie in two rows, one above the other, on each side of the ship, close to each other, like books upon a shelf. I have known them so close, that the shelf would not, easily, contain one more."
It was not that Africans were 'stronger' per se (which is a racist concept), it was the slave ships which 'culled' them, thereby ensuring that only the fit ones survived:(:(
(Edited.)
Africans had had contact with Europeans for centuries and had had exposure to some degree against the diseases. They were more immuned to diseases like small pox and measles.
That did not stop them dying in their hundreds from such diseases when they were packed tight in the hold of a slave ship or living in a shack in the Caribbean! It is only vaccination which has eradicated these diseases - all populations were prone to being decimated by them before these antidotes were discovered. I remember measles killing a number of my classmates when I was a child. Slaves were introduced to new diseases and suffered from malnutrition long before they reached the New World or the Caribbean. It has been suggested that the majority of deaths on the voyage across the Atlantic - the middle passage - occurred during the first couple of weeks and were a result of malnutrition and disease encountered during the forced marches and subsequent interment at slave camps on the coast. On board the ships there was an estimated death rate of 13% - it is estimated that 8 million slaves died during 'storage'.
It is a mistake to assume that the African is stronger per se than a European or a Native American or anyone else. Strength (and immunity from disease) comes from what we eat, what we do and how we live, irrespective of race or nationality. My school friends probably died because they came from poorer homes than myself, with inadequate diets, not because they were genetically prone to measles.
I'm not sure what your point is. The European conquerors wanted slaves to work in mines, work with sugar cane plantations, etc. They originally tried to enslave the local population, but 80% of the population died since they didn't have any resistance to the new diseases (see the link in my previous comment). The Europeans decided to import Africans. Many of these died enroute, but since huge numbers were brought over, it was profitable for all concerned (landowners, ship captains, African kidnappers,etc.) except for the slaves. If 13% of the slaves died enroute, then 87% did not. That is a much better percentage of survival compared to the Native Americans.
BunWat wrote: "Here is what I think is causing the misunderstanding. It's a difference in understandings about how diseases work. Madge believes that resistance to viruses is a function of one's general health. W..."Thank you for pointing out the misunderstanding. We're not all coming from the same "base information pool," and I can see how it can be frustrating.
BunWat wrote: "Here is what I think is causing the misunderstanding. It's a difference in understandings about how diseases work. Madge believes that resistance to viruses is a function of one's general health. W..."Thanks for the clarification. It is hard enough to have these types of discussions face to face, let alone on a discussion board where it is easy to have misunderstandings and harder to communicate exactly what you mean.
And thanks to all the posters for their contributions - quite an educational conversation.
Yes there are some misunderstandings here:...what she hears us saying is Indians are racially weak and unhealthy
No, I hear some reports/studies saying that negroes are stronger, which is a racial stereotype - the oft portrayed 'buck negro', strong but with fewer brains than other races. I also hear some reports/studies saying that the experiences of the Native American were worse than those of the enslaved African, which is again demeaning to the African.
In a European village almost everyone over the age of seven would have already had measles and and if they survived would have an accquired immunity...
Wherever you are you only acquire immunity if you have had measles. Those in the African communities which were being raided had not acquired such immunity so had the same risk as Native Americans. Also if diseases were contagious and not infectious, like smallpox, they were at more risk of getting them if they were in overcrowded conditions such as holding stations or packed slaveships.
If 13% of the slaves died enroute, then 87% did not. That is a much better percentage of survival compared to the Native Americans.
No, the 87% carried these diseases to other places and died in large numbers there! Another 15 to 30 percent died during the march to or confinement along the coast. For every 100 slaves captured, 40 died in Africa or during the Middle Passage. There are reports of thousands dying of smallpox when they got to the Caribbean.
So even if people dont get 100% immunity in every case, sometimes an exposure can give their immune system enough familiarity with a similar virus that they are more able to fight.
Good health and good living conditions also help you fight such illnesses. A strong, well fed child (or adult) living in non-overcrowded conditions is much less likely to die from either contagious or infectious illnesses. Which is why so much effort is put into the nutrition and better housing of the poor.
Edited.
'In his important and pioneering study of the bio-history of Caribbean enslaved people, Kenneth Kiple argues, following other scholars, that West Africans arriving in the New World were "survivors of one of the most formidable disease environments in the world". Not only did West Africans often suffer from considerable malnutrition and the diseases it caused, but they were also commonly exposed to such infectious diseases as leprosy, scabies, yaws, various skin afflictions, and a variety of parasites and worms; diarrhoea and amoebic dysentery were frequent symptoms of a multitude of infectious and nutritional diseases, and mosquitoes transmitted elephantiasis, sleeping sickness, malaria, and yellow fever. West Africans were also exposed to such easily contagious illnesses as smallpox, diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, mumps, and influenza. Famine conditions and persistent malnutrition also reduced resistance to infectious diseases. The vulnerability to infectious disease, in particular, was especially pronounced among infants and small children and was compounded by the unsanitary conditions in which enslaved people lived and prepared and consumed their food.........In brief, in Kiple's words, the "slaves destined for the Americas left behind them a land that had molded them with massive malnutrition on the one hand, and a host of man's most dangerous diseases on the other" 'Edited.
