TIG: Who's better, Guy Gavriel Kay or George R.R. Martin?

[terpkristin]

Kay doesn't tell stories he talks about people.

Bleh bleh bleh bleh bleh.

Only reason I'm not lemming this is that I've got it in audio so it WILL provide something to listen to while driving. But I'm not going out of my way to listen.

Yet another disappointing S&L pick.

[Caedy]

I'm not going to lemming it, but I might not finish it before the end of the month. We shall see.

[terpkristin]

Martha wrote: "I'm not going to lemming it, but I might not finish it before the end of the month. We shall see."

Yeah it's unlikely I'll finish before the end of the month. I don't think I have THAT much driving to do. ;)

[Caedy]

LOL terpkristin :D

I'm reading it on Kindle for PC, but can only tolerate a small dosage of it (five-seven percent) before I feel like my brain is going to explode and I have to go read something else. Which is why if you look at my currently reading there are two other books on there.

[Vincent]

I love both authors but as I currently rereading Tigana and Dance with Dragons, I have to admit that I am getting very frustrated with ASoIaF. I know that with Kay, I'm going to get an emotional punch and some sense, for better or worse, of closure. I don't really expect that from G.R.R.M anymore. But I'll continue to read both, they are among the best in the field IMO.

[David Sven]

Vincent wrote: I don't really expect that from G.R.R.M anymore.

Good. You won't be disappointed then. Lol.

[AndrewP]

Michal wrote: "A Song of Ice and Fire was on the New York Times Bestseller list (I believe for A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows) before the show ever aired. It wouldn't have become a show if it wasn't alr..."

Personally I do not think the New York Times list means anything. It's based on books sold from the publishers, not books sold to actual consumers. It doesn't matter to the list where those books actually go once they leave the publishers. I see books in the bargain bins with 'New York Times Bestseller' printed on the cover all the time. Books by Clive Cussler would be a good example.

For every decent book that gets on the New York Times list there are probably 5 or 6 over hyped junkers. Just my personal opinion.

[Mike]

AndrewP wrote: "Michal wrote: "A Song of Ice and Fire was on the New York Times Bestseller list (I believe for A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows) before the show ever aired. It wouldn't have become a show i..."

It is the same with box office hits. Star Wars Episode I did awesome at the box office. Was it a good movie?

[Vance]

Of course, you could be a true elitist and say that anything which is popular enough to be on the bestseller list CAN'T be good by definition. :0)

[Bryek]

Mike wrote: "It is the same with box office hits. Star Wars Episode I did awesome at the box office. Was it a good movie?"

I actually loved Episode one.

[Jonathan]

i'd say Martin. he does have equally complex and dense set ups. but the stories themselves aren't as bogged down by style of storytelling. i mean with Martin, the story is bogged down with detail and history. but Martin also knows how make those details and histories consistently matter. Whereas, with Kay, it just feels like he's calling out to the reader "Look at me. Watch my style. It's awesome" while distracting the reader from the story. Then again, this is based off of just Tigana, which is my first book from the author.

[terpkristin]

Martin knows how to introduce characters naturally in the plot without detracting from it for 50+ pages. His character introductions feel much more organic.

[Bryek]

terpkristin wrote: "Martin knows how to introduce characters naturally in the plot without detracting from it for 50+ pages. His character introductions feel much more organic."
I think that if Kay had introduced all of his characters in the first few chapters of the book rather than sepporating them by parts, it would have been a little more organic.

[Kurt]

I fully agree with the many previous comments that say that Kay is better with language while Martin wins in overall story architecture.

[Caedy]

I agree with Kp, if everyone had been introduced within the beginning it would have been much more organic, instead of not so much.

[Richard]

I can only compare Tigana (fresh in my mind) with Aces High (a faded 25 year old memory). Of the 2, I think I prefer Martin's, but is it really fair to compare a short, comic twist on the mutant super-human theme with an epic (at least in length) fantasy political drama fraught with invasion/rebellion clichés & interesting historical tidbits? Probably not.

I really liked Kay's prose, plot, & characterization (for the most part), but his pacing could benefit from one small cut of 400 pages. The Brandin/Dianora plot-line would have been a great novel by itself (even the way it ended) in the 250-300 page range.

[Jeff]

Chris wrote: "I would say that in one way Martin has made Kay better: because of Martin's infamous capacity for killing off characters unpredictably, I no longer trust other authors not to do so as well. In the ..."

Actually, Kay was one of the first authors that I recall to kill off a main character. In the Fionovar Tapestry a number of them. In fact I remember him telling a story about after having turned in the third book in the series (which killed off a very popular character) but before it was published, someone told him that that character had better not die...or else.

My favourite is still Song for Arbonne. A fantasy version of the Albigensian Crusade, it is to this day, my favourite fantasy novel. Which tells you which side of the Kay v. Martin debate.

[Dwayne]

Definitely George R.R. Martin for me. Martin gets me emotionally invested in his characters whereas Kay gave me nothing. I was just indifferent to Devin, Alessan, Catriana pretty much everyone. In fact the only people I found myself vested in were Erlein and Sandre. I did smile to myself reading Astibar and thinking of Astapor. Devin's father is Garin. Martin has a Prince Garin the Great in his world so I guess George liked Tigana more than I did.

[Bryek]

Dwayne wrote: "Definitely George R.R. Martin for me. Martin gets me emotionally invested in his characters whereas Kay gave me nothing. I was just indifferent to Devin, Alessan, Catriana pretty much everyone. ..."

I have the opposite problem. Martin can't make me care about anyone other than John and Ayra but I can keep up with their stories through wikipedia so I haven't read anything other than GoT

[Jonathon]

This is the literary equivalent of Beethoven vs. John Williams.

Both Martin and Kay play in the same sandbox but they do it in very different ways. Martin builds a world that's interconnnected and filled with complexity, the equivalent of a sprawling sand-city - just continuing with the sandbox metaphor. While Kay created a stand-alone epic, like one of those sand sculptures.

I couldn't choose between the two beacuse they both do things that I love very well. I think I prefer Kay for one-off books but Martin for series...

[Dwayne]

Kp wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Definitely George R.R. Martin for me. Martin gets me emotionally invested in his characters whereas Kay gave me nothing. I was just indifferent to Devin, Alessan, Catriana pretty m..."

It's pretty hard not to like Arya or John. And I do hate my fair share of characters in Ice and Fire. But I think it's just as important to dislike characters if their role in the story calls for it as I do for the characters you're supposed to care for. And I'll admit at first I despised Alberico, but after awhile, I just didn't care one way or the other what happened to him. Probably because the novel just lost momentum for me.

[Jeff]

I am not a fan of GoT (gave up around book 3) and am a massive Kay fan - I've read everything he's wrote since the Summer Tree. So obviously, I'm biased.

Of Kay's works, my favourite is Song of Arbonne; my least favourite is Fionavar (although I really enjoyed his urban fantasy follow-up to Fionavar).

Having said that, the critical difference between the two IMHO isn't the willingness to kill popular characters (Kay was doing that LONG before GoT - you think the killing of Ned Stark was bad, read Fionavar)or have bad things happen to good people. The real difference is the language - Kay's language is poetic and remind you of the beauty that can come out of the English Language; I just don't get the same pleasure from reading GoT.