The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
discussion
Is this a good book?
Curious, Bec.... what did you find uninteresting about Lisbeth Salander?
Sophie wrote: "I haven't seen the movie but I would definitely recommend this book. The first few chapters are a bit boring but if you can get past those then the book picks up and is really, really good!"The movie is nothing like the book, I recommend you read it
Anne wrote: "Sophie wrote: "I haven't seen the movie but I would definitely recommend this book. The first few chapters are a bit boring but if you can get past those then the book picks up and is really, real..."PS, skip the firs 50 pages, then go back and read them ata the end.
I found the book captivating. I am not really for the blood and gore genre however the book goes along a couple of different story lines that keeps the reader involved.
not bad, but the writer tried too hard to be cool. the sequel is not as good as this book. the second and the third are rather boring.
Betsy - I don't know why Bec didn't find Lisbeth Salander uninteresting, but this is why her character didn't work for me...She is a fantastic hacker who can't manage her own finances - simultaneously a victim and an angel of vengeance (and not particularly believable as either). A little too perfect and a little too vulnerable all at the same time. The overwhelming sense I took from her is that she is not so much a real person as a convenient plot device for Larsson to explore his feelings about rape and revenge.
Most of all, I can't kick the feeling that Larsson is partly showing her suffering (and subsequent revenge) to condemn violence against women and partly because he gets a kick out of showing it.
And (naturally) like just about every other woman in the trilogy she ends up fancying Blomkvist - a thinly disguised Larsson-figure. He seems to be doing that creepy middle-aged man thing of writing himself into his book and then making his book character irresistible to women.
And when I start seeing the author's motives like that I lose all sense of suspension of disbelief. It's all a little too predictable.
Yeah... the whole thing reads like a thinly veiled political lecture.Which I find insulting (or would, if I thought enough of Larssson to take him seriously enough to be insulted by him)
I found an interesting article by Susan Donalson James, "Based on Real Life Rape" which states that according to one of Larsson's closest friends, Kurdo Baksi, Larsson is .... "graphic in his descriptions of violence against women because at the age of 15, he witnessed a gang rape and never intervened, was ridden with guilt, asked the victim for forgiveness and she refused. The victim's name was LisbethLarsson did have a real life commitment to social justice and was a tireless advocate for women in his journalistic career.
Some of you keep stating that Lisbeth was a brilliant hacker who couldn't take control of her life and that make the book bad and unrealistic. But don't you know real people like that?I know more than a few genius computer programmers who wallow in filth and forget to bathe. It's actually so common it's a stereotype (check 'Halt and Catch Fire' on AMC). One of my friends was a brilliant computer tech who died of appendicitis because he didn't go to the hospital (and couldn't manage his finances).
So I think that argument about Lisbeth still goes no where
No, Ed, we are not saying that the book is bad and unrealistic solely because Lisbeth is both a brilliant hacker and unable to manage her own finances.What I am saying is that I have several problems with this trilogy - it's overtly political messages, the self-indulgent inclusion of the author as protagonist, inconsistent pacing, and the action shown off screen including the all-too convenient and symmetrical death of the villain.
Sure there are people who have strengths in one area and weaknesses in another. The most classic example is probably Sherlock Holmes - a brilliant mind but poor in social situations.
But Lisbeth comes across to me as a two dimensional plot device and not a believable character. Her inability to manage her own finances is a part of the problem, but by no means the whole problem.
Well if you mean Blomqvist was a pretty radical liberal taking on Neo Nazis - I'm not sure that would be considered overtly political messages (and that sort of thing probably has greater significance in that part of Europe than in the USA) but I found that as the only real weakness - after all Nazis are some 75 years in the past.And every author puts something of his/her self in their works so I can't fault that either.
I'll stand on my point that Lizbeth was a brilliant invention.
And don't forget the book in set in 2002 when we barely knew what a hacker was - The hacker group Anonymous was formed a year later in 2003.
Ed - you like the book. That's your right. Every one of us will react differently to a book and to the characters in it.I'm not trying to change your mind.
I didn't like the book. This is not just about an author putting something of himself into a book - it's an author who makes the main character an almost carbon copy of himself. And then gives this character a lot of sex.
The politics goes deeper than the neo-Nazi angle. We also have sexual politics - the original title was "men who hate women" until the editor (rightly) shifted the emphasis to Lisbeth. I don't mind the inclusion of politics. What I dislike is when a character is little more than a cipher for a political point of view.
Hacking has been around for decades and most certainly wasn't new in 2002.
I am always glad to agree to disagree, and I have enjoyed your many thoughtful remarks above = makes one think and question one's original thoughts.However, after all is said and done, I feel that Lisbeth Salander is a remarkable female protagonist! I enjoyed witnessing how she developed throughout the trilogy, and how I wish that there would/ could be more of her in the future. My heart ached for her after she saw Blomqvist and his woman friend together when she thought that there might be a possibility of .... Salender is one of my favorite female characters in contemporary fiction.... and I'm sticking to it :)
i enjoyed this series a lot even if it was very controversial so i would recommend it. i kind of wish the 4th book would have been finished. i liked the books better than the movies, but that often happens for me.
Frankly, after reading this book I could NOT fathom what all the hype was about. It was dark and dreary and long...did I mention long? Not my cup of tea...
It's almost like the movie, though the movie is more faster. The book drags, but in a good way that keeps you riveted to your seat.
Betsy wrote: "...Larsson did have a real life commitment to social justice and was a tireless advocate for women in his journalistic career. "
You mean like when he neither married his "Partner" NOR left her anything in his will, so she ended up with nothing when he assumed room temperature? I bet she really feels totally "Advocated" for...
Duane wrote: "You mean like when he neither married his "Partner" NOR left her anything in his will, so she ended up with nothing when he assumed room temperature? I bet she really feels totally "Advocated" for..."I know several people who won't get married (one has three kids and a house), it's not like it's only the MAN's decision here. For some it may even be a matter of a principle. And I suppose he didn't expect dying so soon and didn't have that much money anyway, so he didn't make a (proper) will. Not very uncommon that either.
Duane wrote: "Betsy wrote: "...Larsson did have a real life commitment to social justice and was a tireless advocate for women in his journalistic career. "
You mean like when he neither married his "Partner" ..."
they opted to not get married because that would require them to register their information on a public registry and they didn't want that, because it could have made him a target...
I have to agree with Dee, Duane, as I have read the exact thing that she mentioned: THEY decided that it was not a smart thing for either to marry as they wanted their information to remain private, not part of the public domain. I have also read that they had a very strong, solid relationship plus as Tytti mentioned, many people leave the writing of their will until it's too late.
Personally I thought that it was absolutely rubbish!
Curious.... would love to know your reasons why you thought this and so strongly stated.... do share.
The politics goes deeper than the neo-Nazi angle. We also have sexual politics..."Doesn't Blomqvist remind you of good old Julian Assange?
Not having a will is mean and irresponsible on multiple levels. Getting married or not is way too complicated to discuss here (although the not being registered as an excuse is so weak it defies description).
Jim wrote: "Not having a will is mean and irresponsible on multiple levels."Oh, really? Most people I know don't have a will. Why would they have? It might be a custom in the US but it's certainly not here, at least with "normal people" with little to inherit.
I'm not really sure that not getting registered is a real reason (unless it was meant to protect her) because I believe he, like everyone else, was already in the public registry (or non-public but that would also include the marriage).
Everybody should have a Will.Only sayin... ;-)
Ed - not as much as he reminds me of Stieg Larssen.
I was maybe a little hasty or perhaps just not specific enough. I do not know the law in other countries, but in the United States it is mean and irresponsible not to have a will starting as soon as you are of age unless you literally have nothing and/or no relatives/close friends. It leaves he disposal of your things and decisions about your remains in the hands of the state where the state will waste a lot of time and money deciding all things and you can just about bet their decisions will not be the ones you would have made or agreed with.
Jim wrote: "It leaves he disposal of your things and decisions about your remains in the hands of the state where the state will waste a lot of time and money deciding all things..."I can't say for certain about the Swedish legislation but I believe it's similar to the Finnish one. There is a quite simple law about how the inheritance will be decided and how much goes to whom. Of course the family can start argueing about what they will do with some specific thing but in general it's just simple math. I guess most people agree that it is the right and just way to distribute the inheritance and won't bother with the will because it wouldn't make much difference anyway.
Only just able to return to this interesting thread, I feel no different, I have to agree with Terrance, as I too, found it long and dreary.I don't need to like or dislike an author, nor do I need to have ... or not have a will in order to enjoy a story.
I wish I did know what that intrinsic factor is, that factor that makes one book so very enjoyable for me and yet another, so very tedious.
Bec, I think that a book has to "speak" to you in some way, and that is your "intrinsic factor". In GIRL WITH.... et. al. Lisbeth Salander "spoke" to me, big time. I had never read about a character quite like her, I think that she's quite unique, and she is what hooked me into the trilogy. She probably didn't do much for you or.... perhaps the plot dragged too much for you in the beginning ,and it turned you off to what followed, unfortunate because once it got going.... Anyway, that is the glory of books; they reach out and touch us or.... not.
Betsy wrote: "Bec, I think that a book has to "speak" to you in some way, and that is your "intrinsic factor". In GIRL WITH.... et. al. Lisbeth Salander "spoke" to me, big time. I had never read about a ..."
True, if only I knew the answer ......... and if only I could write !!
Bec - that's a huge question! I started to write an answer but it got too big. So I've turned it into a blog on my author page. Feel free to drop by if you're interested. And anyone else too.
Will, dinner time here in Tasmania, so I'll get to your blog later or tomorrow. I will be interested in your viewpoint
Edge of your seat reading! I love, love, love this trilogy. Especially the first book. The movies are great, both American and Swedish and if Stieg Larson had not succumbed to such an untimely death, I'd be waiting for the next release.
I really don't have much left to say about this book, whereas I (and others) found it dull and predictable, most reviewers and commenters found it riveting! Now, I can check out the reviews of those sharing my opinion, get myself some good suggestions. One thing for sure, I never should have chosen such a hyped up popular book because they have always let me down. On to the next!
IF there IS a 4th book, what things would you like to see happen? How would you develop a 4th book? Where should the trilogy go from here?
Christy wrote: "Is this a good book? Is it anything like the movie? Is it worth reading thanks!!!"I enjoyed it. The first few chapters are boring and the last few chapters remind you that the focus of the story is Mikel & his business which is kind of a boring part of the story. It feels like because the author died that they didn't feel like they should edit it too heavily because it should have been thinned out a bit..
But get passed the first few chapters and it starts rolling on by.
Leslie wrote: "Boring and poorly written. How many sandwiches did Mikael Blomkvist eat?.
.
..."
OOh - Good trivia question ! (if anybody is enough of a no-life to count)
We do know for sure that Stieg Larsson ate one too many though
I had trouble getting into the book at first, but then i was hooked.While I love Daniel Craig, the german version seems better to me.
Jody wrote: "While I love Daniel Craig, the german version seems better to me."German?
Swedish version, and yes, I'm soooo anything Danial Craig, but the Swedish version was a bit better.
whatever, the foreign subtitled one on Netflix...i just know it had subtitles. I'm clueless on the rest.
Either way, it was good. :)
the whole series is super!!!!!!!!
This is a fantastic book. Well thought out, full of suspense. Worth reading more than once.
i found the Dragon series a lot of fun, and the Swedish movies a very good depiction of the book. READ the series first and enjoy. It is reasonably well-written, and the character development for the lead characters is pretty good. You can SEE them in your mind. When I saw the Swedish films, it was as if they had stepped out of the book.
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I didn't enjoy the book. To me, it's as if someone wrote a novel, then someone else came along and padded it out with unecessary words.
I did not find the characters interesting and I found the plot all pretty obvious.
In short, a boring book.