Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
Heyer in General
>
Best Supporting Characters and Favourite Scenes
message 101:
by
Margaret
(new)
Aug 27, 2015 02:11PM
IMHO, the ideal plotline for Gideon would be one in which he has to confront the flaw pointed out by Gilly: "You never have any sympathy for someone in less easy circumstances than yourself." (My paraphrase since I haven't got the book handy.) That would work perfectly well for a love interest of either gender. :)
reply
|
flag
I do think Gideon & Tom from Sylvester deserved their own book, but I think Gideon is another example of GH choosing not to use the cliche guy as the romantic lead.
Margaret wrote: "IMHO, the ideal plotline for Gideon would be one in which he has to confront the flaw pointed out by Gilly: "You never have any sympathy for someone in less easy circumstances than yourself." (My..."!!! Yes! Margaret, you're a genius!
Someone write this fanfic! ;)
Leslie wrote: "Louise wrote: "sir Hugo Thane in The talisman ring. he is so funny, oblivious to everything going on around him, only interested in the brandy in the celler. best scene is the one where Miss Than..."i have the aduio book version read by Phyllida Nash. She is absolutely brilliant at doing the voices, her Sir Hugh is wonderful, and has me laughing every time i listen to it.
Oooh that does sound good - I should see if I can find a copy of that.I love Sir Hugo, and Miss Thane is one of my favorite heroines.
It is an Audible, which you can listen to on your smart phone or Kindle. Sometimes if you buy the Amazon Kindle edition first, you get a STEEP discount on the Aubible recording. It is called a companion price. That's how I afforded my copy. I never thought I'd ever carry 89 audio books in my pocket to listen to at will. It is a wonderful thing.
Emr wrote: "I'm loving Mrs. Scattergood (another Dickensian name) in Regency Buck:"You see, I am not pretty, not in the least, never was, and so I have to be odd. Nothing for it! It answers delightfully.""
I've taken that advice to heart all my life!
Having just finished "The Toll-Gate" not too long since, I have to put in a plug for Chirk the highwayman. I ended up being far more interested in his and Rose's romance than the main characters'!
Elliot wrote: "Having just finished "The Toll-Gate" not too long since, I have to put in a plug for Chirk the highwayman. I ended up being far more interested in his and Rose's romance than the main characters'!"Me too. They were hilarious. Though the book features excessive use of cant, it's so funny that you don't really need to understand what they're saying. Leave it to Georgette Heyer to turn the highwayman trope on it's head and turn it into a farce.
OK, now I want to write "The Hen-Pecked Highwayman"...is it wrong? Yeah, the excessive use of cant made me grind my teeth this time thru'...I ended up skipping over a lot of it. I guess the older I get, the less patience I have with it. Yes, Georgette, I *know* you've done your research!
I don't know why the cant doesn't bother me, because I really hate "dialect" novels and poetry...
I like Jessamy and Felix in Frederica. But this is a novel with a host of amazing minor characters. As I write this I am thinking of Alverstokes sisters and the amazingly dim Endymion. That scene when Charles explains about the thwarted elopement and Endymion having left his mother a letter in case he forgot afterwards. I could go on for ever
Tina wrote: "I like Jessamy and Felix in Frederica. But this is a novel with a host of amazing minor characters. As I write this I am thinking of Alverstokes sisters and the amazingly dim Endymion. That scene w..."I think Heyer had a positive genius for not only secondary characters but especially for the dim-witted ones, Endymion and then Dolph from Cotillion being two good examples. She may laugh at them (and so do we), but she treats them with compassion and is never snarky about them. She makes us chuckle, but we never sneer.
I agree Karlyne. And don't forget dear old Ferdy from Friday's Child!
Critterbee wrote: "I agree Karlyne. And don't forget dear old Ferdy from Friday's Child!"I love that scene when he can't remember the word "nemesis" and is trying to describe the character from the Greek myths to Gil. So funny! :)
@Tina -- I think that the minor characters are one reason I love Frederica (the same reason that David Copperfield is one of my favorite classics!). Another one is Alverstoke's secretary Charles who is always trying to get him to read fiery speeches in the House of Lords; I always thought that was a nice tertiary love affair (the secondary one being Endymion and Charis).
Oh, you know, that Greek fellow who's always following you around... I love Ferdy. He's just so good-humored and funny that he's irresistible.
And also Kitty's governess and her flights of romantic fancies which Kitty and Ferdy squash. I love her pursuit of the old man and her letter to Kitty. But I really love Ferdy flooring his cousin
I'm also fond of Amanda's artful ditching of the lecherous Mr. Theale in Sprig Muslin as well as her meek capitulation to her brigade-major.
I like Lord Rule's secretary (Arnold?) because Rule reacts to him in such a hilarious way.Rule cracks me up.
Yes when Rule says he will have no scandals in his how when he has been having an affair with a married lady
Heyer's secondary characters sometimes shine brighter than her main characters. She was a comic genius and to think she was writing at the same time as P.G. Wodehouse who was also a comic genius. He's stories are fun but flimsy while her characters leap off the page and come to life. That is where she excelled and what she enjoyed. In the Kloestner biography it says GH's husband came up with the whodunnit plots for her mysteries but she created the characters who came to life and lived in her head.
Tina wrote: "And also Kitty's governess and her flights of romantic fancies which Kitty and Ferdy squash. I love her pursuit of the old man and her letter to Kitty. But I really love Ferdy flooring his cousin"That's Freddy from Cotillion! He's a lot like Ferdy from Friday's Child, and I think it was written first? Both of them are super nice guys, but Freddy seems to be more intelligent.
And I totally agree about Kitty's governess, Tina. Fish was positively lovable.
Tina, the lady with whom Rule was having an affair was a widow.
Have I mixed up the books, was it The Convenient Marriage
It was "The Convenient Marriage" with Rule as the hero.
Karlyne wrote: "I think Heyer had a positive genius for not only secondary characters but especially for the dim-witted ones, Endymion and then Dolph from Cotillion being two good examples. She may laugh at them (and so do we), but she treats them with compassion and is never snarky about them. She makes us chuckle, but we never sneer. ...."What is the name of the "ridiculous gudgeon" in Sylvester with whom Iolanthe elopes? He is so vain that I came close to sneering at him. I love the scene where Edmund has cut off the tassels of his boots... and the whole thing about trying to rent all the rooms in the hotel & when he couldn't, trying to buy the building!
Leslie wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "I think Heyer had a positive genius for not only secondary characters but especially for the dim-witted ones, Endymion and then Dolph from Cotillion being two good examples. She may..."True, he's so vain that he comes close to being down-right arrogant. As I've said before, I prefer stupid people when they're humble! I'm trying to remember his name... Sir Nugent and Ianthe! I had to go look it up, by the way.
Ah I do not remember who I disliked more, Ianthe or Sir Nugent! I did not really even like Sylvester either. I did really like Sylvester's Mother, that I remember.
Can anyone tell me how "Ianthe" is pronounced?Until I read Sylvetster, I was unfamiliar with that name.
Critterbee wrote: "Ah I do not remember who I disliked more, Ianthe or Sir Nugent! I did not really even like Sylvester either. I did really like Sylvester's Mother, that I remember."Sylvester wasn't an instant hero, was he? He really had to grow up and realize his imperfections before he became a good man. He was so surprised to find that he had so many faults that he made me laugh!
Karlyne, that's what made me like Sylvester, his shock at how he was perceived. It was that that in spite of his high position and arrogance, made him tolerable--a willingness, though not easy, to see that he was wrong.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Karlyne, that's what made me like Sylvester, his shock at how he was perceived. It was that that in spite of his high position and arrogance, made him tolerable--a willingness, though not easy, to ..."I liked him not only because he made me laugh, but because he was so complicated, too. Lots of people get shocks to their notions of themselves, but not many are willing to do any soul-searching. He was, in his own prideful way, quite humble!
His humility saved him from being odious.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "His humility saved him from being odious."I love the word "odious". In my favorite version of A Christmas Carol, the one with George C. Scott as Scrooge, Mrs. Cratchit is played by Susannah York and the way she says "odious" is superb, absolutely perfect!
I've only ever seen some old cartoon of "A Christmas Carol."I'll have see if my sis can Netflix this version.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I've only ever seen some old cartoon of "A Christmas Carol."I'll have see if my sis can Netflix this version."
It's a Christmas tradition at our house, so I recommend it heartily.
The original with Alastair Sim is great; in fact I like quite a few versions including the one with Patrick Stewart.
Pronouncing “Ianthe”: I’ve heard both EE-anth and ee-ANTH-ee. From Greek mythology; if I recall, she was one of those women who was inappropriately pursued by a god and turned into a flower to escape—enflowered herself, so to speak, rather than being deflowered!
Thanks. That book Sylvester was the first I'd seen of that name.Those Greek Gods were always on the prowl for some poor woman!
'Eye-anth-ee' or 'Ee-anth-ee', are both acceptable but the only one I actually knew used 'Eye-anth-ee.' Actually never pursued by a Greek God! but a very beautiful Cretan woman whose grave was covered by purple flowers.
Critterbee wrote: "Ah I do not remember who I disliked more, Ianthe or Sir Nugent! I did not really even like Sylvester either. I did really like Sylvester's Mother, that I remember."I see that I didn't even get Ianthe's name right -- I will blame that on aging :P Thanks Susan & Abigail for the info about how to pronounce that. In my head, I always used 'eye-anth-ee' so I am pleased that a real Cretan pronounced it that way :-)
I disliked Ianthe more -- Sir Nugent, while vain and oblivious, had a kind heart. The tipping point for me was when Pheobe discovers that among all the luggage on the boat there is not one scrap for Edmund.
Karlyne wrote: "Critterbee wrote: "Ah I do not remember who I disliked more, Ianthe or Sir Nugent! I did not really even like Sylvester either. I did really like Sylvester's Mother, that I remember."Sylvester wa..."
Good point, Karlyne. It is just like GH to keep coming up with new types of heroes. They range from the flawed, arrogant Sylvester (and Ivo!!) to the submissive, hesitant Duke of Sale.
Mod
Yes you have got it.I was thinking about the minor characters and I remembered Mrs Floore. I think it was in Bath Tangle. Just the right sort of GH minor full of recognisable facets to her nature, shrewd and strong minded.
Tina wrote: "Yes you have got it.I was thinking about the minor characters and I remembered Mrs Floore. I think it was in Bath Tangle. Just the right sort of GH minor full of recognisable facets to her nature,..."
mrs Floore is the most appealing character in bath tangle I think.
Louise wrote: "Tina wrote: "Yes you have got it.I was thinking about the minor characters and I remembered Mrs Floore. I think it was in Bath Tangle. Just the right sort of GH minor full of recognisable facets t..."
Agreed. Serena is anything but serene, and Fanny is a trifle insipid. Ivo is angry, arrogant and disrespectful, while Major Kirkby is a touch spiritless, at least in the face of Serena's strong personality.
Mrs Floore is strong, frank and hilarious. And she loves her Emily.
Gosh, it always amazes me, (though it shouldn't), when people have vastly differing opinions on books that I like. I thought this was a great GH project. I love the revisiting of young love, the development of realistic insight and the realisation of true love despite the odds. I thought all the characters were well drawn, believable and multi faceted. Serena was an interesting, much deeper character than some of GH's originals and Ivo was a much more interesting hero than I anticipated. Mrs floore provided the humour and the satisfaction of a spade being called a spade, but she was hardly a detailed or well rounded character. She served her purpose well but was hardly in it enough to become anything. It a subsidiary character. Just as well that we don't all like exactly the same thing - it would be just too boring if that were the case!
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Courtship and Curses (other topics)The Toll-Gate (other topics)
Footsteps in the Dark (other topics)
