Weapons of WW2

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I drove the Ferret to college one day for a laugh but she broke down half way there!

[Manray9]

After a quick review of my new purchase:

American Cruisers of World War II: A Pictorial Encyclopedia by Steve Ewing


I was reminded of several heroic ships of WW II and their brave crews. Some examples:

USS MINEAPOLIS (CA-36) lost her bow forward of the #1 turret in the fighting in the Solomons. She made it to Tulagi where her crew and the Seabees built a jury-rigged bow of coconut logs. USS MINNEAPOLIS returned to pitch in at Surigao Strait and served as the venue for the Japanese surrender of Korea in September '45.

USS NEW ORLEANS (CA-32) lost her bow including the #1 turret at Tassafaronga in Dec. '42. By Oct. '43 she was back in action.

USS PENSACOLA (CA-24) was struck by a Japanese “Long Lance” torpedo which triggered raging oil fires aboard. She lost 168 KIA, but lived to exact revenge at Betio, Tarawa, and Iwo Jima.

USS BOISE (CL-47) was riddled by Japanese gunfire at Cape Esperance in '42. Her #1 turret was destroyed and a magazine detonated. She survived with 107 KIA and returned to cover the landings at Sicily and the Philippines.

The lesson for sailors and naval warfare buffs? In '42 and '43 the U.S. Navy was regularly “schooled” in surface warfare by the Imperial Japanese Navy in the Pacific. We lost nine cruisers in that period, but only one after – USS INDIANAPOLIS (CA-35) in 1945. On numerous occasions our cruisers suffered serious, virtually catastrophic, damage and survived to return to the fight. This is a testament to the quality of the warships' design and construction, as well as the high standards of damage control training and effectiveness prevalent throughout the U.S. Navy -- then and now. The Tenth Commandment of Damage Control: Don't Give Up the Ship!

As seen around every ship in the U.S. Navy:

http://seajunk.com/wp-content/uploads...

[Dj]

USS Portland, nearly had the entire fantail blown off by a single torpedo. They were some rugged ships. Most of the Cruiser losses were during the Solomon Islands campaign where supplies of fuel oil kept most of the Battleships out of action. Either due to how much the older ones would use, due to their slow speeds or the fact that the newer ones were just coming off their shake downs. South Dakota showed she could have used a bit more of a shake down in her first surface engagement.

[Eileen]

Saw a show last night on the USS Laffey. Interested to read the book Hell from the Heavens: The Epic Story of the USS Laffey and World War II's Greatest Kamikaze Attack. One crew member said - I wouldn't have sold the experience for a million dollars but I wouldn't pay a penny to do it again.

[Eileen]

It's incredible to watch how much from the damaged ships was dumped into the oceans, both for convenience and for imagery reasons.

[Manray9]

I've been seeking a personal account or memoirs of WW II floatplane ops of Vought OS2U Kingfisher or Curtiss SOC Seagulls. Still haven't found one, but did come across this excellent article on the subject from the Feb/Mar 2005 issue of Air & Space magazine. Some may find it as interesting as I did:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/pdf/...

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

One aircraft I have only come across this week is the Martin Mariner. I had not heard of it (unlike the Catalina) until I watched a programme about the 5 Grumman Avengers lost in the "Bermuda Triangle" in December 1945. A Mariner was sent to look for the missing Avengers but also disapeared [suggested in the programme as possible explosion on board].

Has anyone read about the service history and exploits of the Mariner during the war?

[Manray9]

Geevee wrote: "One aircraft I have only come across this week is the Martin Mariner. I had not heard of it (unlike the Catalina) until I watched a programme about the 5 Grumman Avengers lost in the "Bermuda Tria..."

I've had a long interest in flying boats. The Mariner was (probably) the second most prominent flying boat in the U.S. inventory during WW II (after the PBY). USN Mariners on ASW patrols in the Atlantic sank nine U-boats in 1943 alone. They could carry up to eight depth charges on patrols of many hours duration. The U.S. sent a number of PBM-3Bs to RAF Coastal Command, but they didn't like them and returned the Mariners to us.

An excellent book which includes detailed info on Mariners:

The American Flying Boat: An Illustrated History by Capt. Richard C. Knott

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks Manray9 - I was reminded of the Short Sunderland when I saw it. I shall look out for the book too.

[Manray9]

Geevee wrote: "Thanks Manray9 - I was reminded of the Short Sunderland when I saw it. I shall look out for the book too."

I've been looking for this, but can't find it at a reasonable price:

Sunderland at War by Chaz Bowyer.

he wrote a bio of Eugene Esmonde too.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I posted this in another thread in the group but figured I would repost it here since it was relevant:

A insightful comment from Richard Evans in his book; The Third Reich at War in regards to the V-2 campaign and the slave labour used in the construction program:

"The total number of people killed by the rocket was no more than 5,000. The V-2 was thus, as its historian Michael Neufeld has remarked, 'a unique weapon: more people died producing it than died from being hit by it'."

Some books written by Michael Neufeld:

and and by Michael Neufeld

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "Thanks Manray9 - I was reminded of the Short Sunderland when I saw it. I shall look out for the book too."

I've been looking for this, but can't find it at a reasonable price:

[bo..."

Yes seems the postage to the USA from the UK will be the killer. NO chance in your using the ILL?

[Manray9]

Geevee wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "Thanks Manray9 - I was reminded of the Short Sunderland when I saw it. I shall look out for the book too."

I've been looking for this, but can't find it at a reason..."

It's on my ILL list -- along with about 30 other books. Now I'm awaiting an ILL of Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen

[Manray9]

Today I received an inter-library loan of:

Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen by William Neufeld

It draws on many personal accounts of U.S. naval aviators at the controls of Vought OS2U Kingfishers and Curtiss SOC Seagulls flying from battlewagons and cruisers during WW II. I'll post comments as I go.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Looks like it will be a pretty interesting book Manray9, I hope you enjoy it.

[Manray9]

From: Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen by William Neufeld

In the mid-thirties the U.S. Navy approved the Curtiss SOC Seagull. It was a float biplane powered by a Pratt & Whitney 550 hp radial engine and boasting folding wings for shipboard hangar storage. Among its advanced features were:

...a set of retractable slats fitted to the leading edge of the top wing. From the lowered air pressure at slow speeds, the slats automatically drooped down. In that position, along with the wing flaps, the camber of the airfoil expanded, giving extra lift and stability to the plane as it approached stall speed landing. If the pilot suddenly speeded up, the slats receded into the wing.

If you watch videos of floatplane landings, the pilots fly down to the surface and stall the aircraft into a plop down landing on the water -- it looks like a bird landing on a wire.

The manufacturer's specs indicated the SOC Seagull had a maximum speed of 150 mph. Veteran naval aviator, Commander Perry Ustick, said "150 mph was possible only in a fatal crash dive." The true max speed was 96 knots (110 mph) with a cruising speed of between 65-75 knots (approx 80 mph). At cruising speed, SOC Seagulls could patrol for over five hours.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Great details Manray9, I liked the quote about the maximum speed: "150 mph was possible only in a fatal crash dive."

[Manray9]

Here's another interesting episode involving U.S. Navy float planes from:

Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen

On 7 March 1942, USS SAN FRANCISCO (CA-38) formed part of a task force raiding Salamaua and Lae. As the force approached the target area, the cruiser's Curtiss SOC Seagull was launched to conduct an area search. Some time later, the pilot (Lt. Thomas) radioed "Am lost." The task force commander refused to launch a search due to radio silence being in effect and a reluctance to jeopardize the mission. After the attacks the task force was withdrawing from the op area when, on 13 March, a odd contact was investigated. It was the USS SAN FRANCISCO's SOC Seagull. Thomas had landed in the water. The radioman/gunner, Petty Officer Gannon, had rigged a sail from a parachute, and in six days the Seagull had sailed 385 miles toward Australia. When the aircraft was taken aboard, Lt Thomas saluted the captain and reported: "A long hop."

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Great story Manray9! That is a creative survival technique.

[Manray9]

Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen by William Neufeld

Mr. Neufeld's Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen addresses an unusual, and neglected, WW II topic. It contains good info and excellent photos, but Mr. Neufeld isn't much of a writer. His book is stuffed with many one-sentence paragraphs. Often his sentences are so awkward and poorly constructed that I had to read them twice to decipher the meaning – and sometimes still couldn't. An example from Page 65:

Having softened up the U.S. Marines, the Japanese troops, convoyed by R. Adm. Joshima's ships, would be landed for a new offensive involving the Salt Lake City, the light cruisers Boise and Helena, and a select unit of destroyers to stage off Savo Island.

What does that mean?

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Doesn't make sense at all Manray9!

[Manray9]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Doesn't make sense at all Manray9!"

Neufeld is listed on the back cover as a "writer and researcher from Teaneck, New Jersey."

[Colin]

Manray9 wrote: " Slingshot Warbirds: World War II U.S. Navy Scout-Observation Airmen by William Neufeld

Mr. Neufeld's Slingsh..."

My brother-in-law's grandfather was on the USS Salt Lake City at that time in fact. He is still alive and doing well.

[Martin]

Our family has had a keen interest in B-24's, given that my great-uncle perished over Linz, Austria on 1/21/45. He was a waste-gunner.

Have read and .

Would love to find more good B-24 books.

But my favorite fighter of the era was the F-4F Corsair.

[happy]

Martin,

Here are a couple that might interest you



Its a decent overall look at the B-24's career, plus it has some excellent pics



This the story of the author's father's war. He was pilot with the last B-24 equiped bomb group activated in WW II and flew in the South Pacific. I thought the content was good, but the format is like a scrap book so it didn't flow particularly well.

by Stephen Ambrose should be widely available - story of one group in the 15th AF

I hope these can point you in the right directions

[Martin]

happy wrote: "Martin,

Here are a couple that might interest you



Its a decent overall look at the B-24's career, plus it has some excellent pics

[bookcover:Flying wi..."

Thanks, happy those are great recs! I struggle with Ambrose as some of his research acumen has come under fire. But still: Great books to check out; I will add them to my list and see if i can find deals at Abe.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Martin wrote: "happy wrote: "Martin,

Here are a couple that might interest you

..."

Hi Martin,
Would these be of interest?



The 464th Bomb Group in World War II: In Action Over the Third Reich with the B-24 Liberator by Mike Hill

The 467th Bombardment Group (H) in World War II: In Combat with the B-24 Liberator Over Europe by Perry Watts

[Martin]

Geevee wrote: "Martin wrote: "happy wrote: "Martin,

Here are a couple that might interest you

..."

Hi Martin,
Would these be of interest?


[bookcover:The 464th Bomb Group in World War II: In Action Over the..."

Yes! My goodness, my list keeps getting longer (but I'm not complaining :)) Thanks so much.

[carl]

Martin wrote: "Our family has had a keen interest in B-24's, given that my great-uncle perished over Linz, Austria on 1/21/45. He was a waste-gunner. ."

Hey Martin,

'The Wild Blue' - has a lot of filler in it, not to mention Ambrose got his hands slapped for not crediting a lot of the writing to their original author, Childers, who inspired Wild Blue. However it is a good starter B-24 book.

Also I have a buddy Bob Cook who was a B-24 pilot and is mentioned on pg 186 of the hardback, he's the guy on fire. So I do have a certain affinity for the book in any case.

Bob was with the 15th Air Force, as probably was your Great Uncle, out of N. Africa and later Italy.

Here's a good one, it mentions a lot of the Bomb Groups, which is more specific info good for finding who was on what particular misssion:

Forgotten Fifteenth: The Daring Airmen Who Crippled Hitler's War Machine

This one has a lot of personal stories and photos:


B-24 Liberator Units of the Fifteenth Air Force

This is a good one too as there were many raids on the Oil
producing areas:



If you know the Bomb Group, there are several specific books written about their exploits, some are noted above by other GRers.

[Martin]

carl wrote: "Martin wrote: "Our family has had a keen interest in B-24's, given that my great-uncle perished over Linz, Austria on 1/21/45. He was a waste-gunner. ."

Hey Martin,

'The Wild Blue' - has a lot ..."

I continue to be amazed by this group!

Uncle bob was in the 461st; this is what I found on the USAAF info
16152876 Robert H Gibbs Cpl WI 20 1 1945 B-24J # 42-51378

My dad would have more info, but sadly he passed in '08; will have to scrounge my step-mom's place to see if I can find more info.

[Colin]

FYI I knew Ambrose, and we did not think a lot of each other, and he was in big trouble before his death for plagiarism.

[carl]

Indeed Colin, do a ambrose + plagarism search and there's plenty to read.

[carl]

Martin,

This book has a some info :

B-24 Liberator Units of the Fifteenth Air Force

the 461st BG started its combat tour in April '44 and spent the entire war flying out of Torrento, Italy. There are also a couple of colored plates of B-24Js of the 461st.

[Martin]

carl wrote: "Martin,

This book has a some info :

B-24 Liberator Units of the Fifteenth Air Force

the 461st BG started its combat tour in April '44 and spent the entire war flying out of Torrento, Italy. The..."

Thanks, Carl.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Here are a few recent releases from the Osprey series on weapons of WW2 (generally):


Mauser Military Rifles by Neil Grant
Description:
This volume offers an insight into the iconic Mauser family of German bolt-action rifles. Drawing on first-hand accounts of the weapons in combat and fascinating primary sources regarding their mechanical performance, this fully illustrated study charts the Mauser's origins, combat record and lasting influence. It explores the full range of Mauser rifles, beginning with the hugely successful Gew 98, which entered service in the time of the Kaiser, provided the basis for the US Springfield M1093 and equipped combatants as diverse as the South African Boers. It also investigates the Kar 98k, which was still in front-line use with Wehrmacht troops in 1945, saw use with Mexican and Yugoslavian forces, and even played a role in the 1990s Balkan conflicts in the hands of snipers. Featuring expert analysis, specially commissioned artwork and gripping first-hand accounts, this volume is ideal for anyone seeking an understanding of these sturdy and accurate rifles' unique place in the history of small-unit tactics in the 20th century.

The Hand Grenade by Gordon L Rottman
Description:
Allowing the user to inflict damage on his opponent within throwing range without leaving cover, the portable, lethally efficient hand grenade is a ubiquitous weapon of modern warfare, and has now found its way into law-enforcement arsenals too. Featuring specially commissioned full-colour artwork and an array of revealing photographs of grenades in use and in close-up, this engaging study explores and assesses the origins, development, combat use, and lasting legacy of the formidable military hand grenade.

The Flamethrower by Chris McNab
Description:
The focus of this book is a weapon that has literally placed the power of fire in human hands - the man-portable flamethrower. This formidable weapon first saw battlefield use in the hands of German troops during World War I, and went on to arm the forces of many countries in World War II and beyond. Capable of inflicting horrific injuries - or of using up the oxygen supply inside a building, causing the occupants to suffocate - it projected a stream of flammable liquid, which could be 'bounced' off the interior surfaces of tunnels, buildings and other defended structures to reach deep inside a fortification. From its combat debut to its deployment in Vietnam, Chechnya and elsewhere, the flamethrower has proven to be devastatingly effective, not least because of its huge psychological impact on enemy troops. Yet despite this, the weapon and its operators have always been vulnerable, suffering from a very particular set of limitations, all of which are explored here. Featuring expert analysis, first-hand accounts and a startling array of illustrations and photographs, this is the definitive guide to an extraordinary chapter in the history of military technology.

The M3 "Grease Gun" by Leroy Thompson

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

As and ex-mortarman (81mm) I had to post details of this new release in the group:


Mortars in World War II by John Norris
Description:
Mortars were used throughout the Second World War by all armies and in all theatres. Although a very simple weapon they could greatly enhance the firepower of infantry formations, giving them their own mobile artillery arm. They repeatedly proved their worth in both offensive and defensive situations, breaking up or supporting infantry attacks and laying smoke or illumination rounds. Despite their ubiquity and effectiveness, there have been relatively few works devoted to these important and versatile weapons. John Norris give a brief history of the origins of the weapon and its use in the Great War before moving on to look in detail at the many types developed and used in the Second World War. The design and development of various types and their various munitions (HE, smoke and illumination) are discussed, including those incorporated into fixed defensive systems such as the Atlantic Wall, specialist variants developed for airborne units and those mounted on vehicles to provide mobile fire support. The tactics developed for their use and the structure of the support companies formed to utilize them are also examined in detail.And of course their combat history in the many theatres is outlined, using examples drawing on first-hand accounts of those that used them. This book is sure to be of great value to enthusiasts who collect mortars and their ammunition, re-enactors, modellers and wargamers as well as those readers interested in the history of weapons generally or those of World War II in particular.

[Manray9]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "As and ex-mortarman (81mm) I had to post details of this new release in the group:


Mortars in World War II by [author:John Norris|12893..."

I recall reading that mortars caused a very high percentage of infantry casualties in WW II.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

They are great infantry support weapons. We were still using WW2 3 inch rounds with our 81mm tubes, they use to rattle going out of the tube :)

[happy]

All I remember about mortors is that the sons-a-guns are heavy and if your paying attention you can see the round come out of the tube:)

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

They were a bitch to carry, especially the damn baseplate!

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thought you grunts enjoyed that carrying and running stuff ;)

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Secretly we do but there were times when you questioned yourself :)

[Colin]

I humped the 81mm mortar base plate and tube on occasion, but not at the same time. Try jumping with all that carp.

[carl]

Sledge was a mortar man in With the Old Breed. Had some good insights on using it.

[happy]

Colin wrote: "I humped the 81mm mortar base plate and tube on occasion, but not at the same time. Try jumping with all that carp."

No Thank You!!!!

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Picking up on the Feb 2016 Sea Battle theme and a post by Derek on warship design and the Washington Treaty, I thought this might be of interest to some group members:

Warships After Washington: The Development of the Five Major Fleets, 1922-1930 by John Jordon

Description
The Washington Treaty of 1922, a watershed event designed to head off a potentially dangerous arms race between the major naval powers, agreed to legally binding limits on the numbers and sizes of principal warship types, effectively banning the construction of new battleships for a decade.

"Warships After Washington" is unique in its coverage of the political and strategic background of the treaty with analysis of exactly how the navies of Britain, the USA, Japan, France, and Italy responded. For the first time, warship enthusiasts and historians can understand fully the rationale behind much of inter-war naval procurement.

[Derek]

Geevee wrote: "Picking up on the Feb 2016 Sea Battle theme and a post by Derek on warship design and the Washington Treaty, I thought this might be of interest to some group members:

[bookcover:Warships After Wa..."

Thanks - another for the TBR list!

[Derek]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "As and ex-mortarman (81mm) I had to post details of this new release in the group:

Mortars in World War II by [author:John Norris|12893..."

1st Canadian Army certainly used AA gun laying radar in the NW Europe campaign to locate enemy mortars, in a development of a technique first tried in Italy the previous year. Incentive is the mother of invention!

[Manray9]

I came across an article in a gun collector's magazine from 2009. The author conducted an unscientific test of several WW II military handguns. He tested:

1. U.S. 1911A1 .45 cal auto.
2. British Enfield No. 2 .38 revolver.
3. Soviet Nagant 7.62mm revolver.
4. British Webley Mk. VI .455 revolver.

The test: he placed a U.S. Army WW II-era steel helmet on a fence post at a range of 20 feet and blazed away using factory loads. The results: The British .38 and the Soviet 7.62 mm "barely wobbled" the helmet on the post. The .455 Webley made a groove and ricocheted upward, but the helmet stayed on the post. The U.S. .45 ACP caved in the side of the helmet, knocked it off the post, and it rolled 20 feet. Interestingly, he didn't test a 9 mm Parabellum round from a German P08 or P38. Another aspect unmentioned in the article -- numbers 1, 3 and 4 above were all of WW I vintage.

[Dj]

Derek wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "As and ex-mortarman (81mm) I had to post details of this new release in the group:

Mortars in World War II by [aut..."

The .45 was still in service as the standard US Military Side Arm until it was replaced by a 9mm while I was serving in the 80s. It was an amazingly successful side arm, with major class stopping power. Even if it took some downside on the range.