THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
LAND, AIR & SEA
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Weapons of WW2
message 152:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
I wondered if members had seen read about the Supermarine/Daimler Benz Spitfire: http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/...I stumbled across it and thus this article whilst reading about various Spitfire variants.
Geevee wrote: "I wondered if members had seen read about the Supermarine/Daimler Benz Spitfire: http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/...I stumbled across it and thus this article whilst reading about ..."
This was news to me. Thanks.
This link is to an article on the discovery of I-400 off Hawaii. I-400 was a Japanese mega-sub which carried up to three aircraft and trained to use those aircraft to bomb the Panama Canal. There is a video embedded in the NY Times article.http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/sci...
Info on I-400:
http://combinedfleet.com/ships/i-400
Pretty interesting article Manray9, thanks for posting the link.
There was a Nova/History channel documentaryon these subs. Interesting stuff. At the
end they did show the US scuttling the one
off of Hawaii postwar. They were afraid
the Soviets would use the technology against
the US.
If folks are interested in further reading there are these two recent books on the subject:
by Henry Kakaida
by John Geoghegan
Checking in from Malta? way to go Travelin.
Sounds like your having a good time, where to next?
Travelin wrote: "Am writing from Malta, having just come back from an exceptionally well-presented tour at the Lascaris War Roomshttp://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction......"
Malta is high on my Want-to-Visit List. My Malta interest was ticked by --
The Last of the Crusaders by Roderick Cavaliero
The Great Siege: Malta 1565 by Ernle Bradford
Empires of the Sea by Roger Crowley.
message 162:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(last edited Feb 11, 2014 12:37PM)
(new)
Travelin wrote: "Am writing from Malta, having just come back from an exceptionally well-presented tour at the Lascaris War Roomshttp://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction......"
Sounds like a great holiday. I've had a quick look at a couple of books where I thought the box barrage might be mentioned (Ack-Ack: Britain's Defence Against Air Attack During the Second World War by General Sir Frederick Pile and The Mediterranean and Middle East, Volume 3: British Fortunes Reach Their Lowest Ebb by I.S.O Playfair) but nope. The first is UK centric but no mention of it being tried there nor any mention in the second book the UK OH for the period of Malta's intense air raids.
message 163:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
I wonder if the AA tactic was used and adapted from the box barrage used by the Royal Artillery on land?
Talking about AA tactics and weapons, maybe this new book may interest a few folks here:
by Terry GanderDescription:
The 40mm Bofors Gun, first produced in the 1930s, has become one of the most famous artillery pieces of all time. It shows no sign of fading from the defence scene even though, in the second decade of the twenty-first century, it performs in many roles that were not contemplated by its original designers. It has also proved to be so versatile that it is now allied to electronic and other technological marvels that were mere pipe dreams only a few years ago. Terry Gander's comprehensive account of the history of this remarkable weapon over the course of almost eighty years is fascinating reading and an invaluable work of reference for military historians and artillery specialists alike. It is the definitive work in the field.
Too little, too late. If Germany had perfected the jet engine, the Battle of Britain would have had a different outcome......in fact the war probably would have had a different outcome.
by
Robert F. DorrSynopsis
Fighting Hitler's Jets brings together in a single, character-driven narrative two groups of men at war: on one side, American fighter pilots and others who battled the secret “wonder weapons” with which Adolf Hitler hoped to turn the tide; on the other, the German scientists, engineers, and pilots who created and used these machines of war on the cutting edge of technology. Written by Robert F. Dorr, renowned author of Zenith Press titles Hell Hawks!, Mission to Berlin, and Mission to Tokyo, the story begins with a display of high-tech secret weapons arranged for Hitler at a time when Germany still had prospects of winning the war. It concludes with Berlin in rubble and the Allies seeking German technology in order to jumpstart their own jet-powered aviation programs. Along the way, Dorr expertly describes the battles in the sky over the Third Reich that made it possible for the Allies to mount the D-Day invasion and advance toward Berlin. Finally, the book addresses both facts and speculation about German weaponry and leaders, including conspiracy theorists’ view that Hitler escaped in a secret aircraft at the war’s end. Where history and controversy collide with riveting narrative, Fighting Hitler’s Jets furthers a repertoire that comprises some of the United States’ most exceptional military writing.
Again we are talking about too little too late. The German V-2 rocket put the fear of God in the British population....it was like looking into the future at an entirely new type of weapon but the war was for all intents and purposes over, so we will never know what Hitler could have done with this weapon.
by Gregory P. KennedySynopsis
Germanys V-2 looks at one of the major technological advances of the Second World War, the V-2 ballistic missile. Although dwarfed by todays giant rockets, the V-2 represented a quantum leap beyond anything previously built. During the last six months of the war in Europe, Germany launched thousands of these missiles against the Allies. This book traces the origins and development of the V-2, from groups of individual experimenters in the 1930s to its use as a weapon system. Particular emphasis is paid to such topics as the structure and components of the missile, its ground support equipment, and field procedures. After the war, the V-2 formed the foundation for the space programs of the Soviet Union and United States. Information is included on previously ignored V-2 launches in the United States.
Some excellent suggestions there Jill, thanks for that :)
I've got so many recommendations, AR but you have read most of them too!!!!
He probably HAS most them on his shelf :)Thnx for the recs
Too true, happy. I actually read a book once that he hadn't read....I was shocked!!! :0)
message 172:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
Jill wrote: "Too true, happy. I actually read a book once that he hadn't read....I was shocked!!! :0)"Blimey does this really happen???!!!???!
I would say that in the case of the V2, it was also too much effort for to little bang. It didn't have anything like a guidance system that would allow it to reliably get anywhere near a real target and the explosive it carried wasn't all that impressive. It was a terror weapon, but not a war winning weapon. Jill wrote: "Again we are talking about too little too late. The German V-2 rocket put the fear of God in the British population....it was like looking into the future at an entirely new type of weapon but the ..."
Very true Dj, but it was the start of a new weapons system, who knows what refinements the Germans would have made to their rockets if the war had continued, one of those what if's eh :)
Considering how long it took van Braun to get one into orbit or the Russians for that matter I would say it would have been some time before it was a viable weapon system. After all their Nuclear program was on the wrong track and without an Atomic Weapon to tip it, the V2, just doesn't produce enough bang for the buck.
Again, very true Dj.
You are probably right Dj that it was a bang not worth the bucks but if they had perfected it early.....well, who knows. I just read The Last Battle by Cornelius Ryan (I have no idea why I hadn't read it earlier) and he noted that the Allies found that the nuclear progress being made by the Nazis was pretty pathetic.....and this was the "great new weapon" that Hitler was still raving about to the end!
by
Cornelius Ryan
Let's say that they perfected the V2 rocket. Something that if I recall correctly wasn't really done with ICBM's until around the late 70s or early 80s, meaning that they could hit a target circle of something like 200 miles of the target (a range that for nuclear weapons is considered percussion targeting.) The perfected V2 would be like a perfected B29 with no Atomic Bomb. Well actually worse, but for the sake of discussion we will go with that. The B29 and excellent high altitude bomber, that was compartmentilized and had its own oxygen that could be fed to the crew suffered severely in its designed role due to the lack of knowledge regarding the jet stream. So bombing runs were abysmal flying at an altitude that it was designed to operate and from which it was safe from most anything that the enemy could throw at it. One of the reasons for the switch to incendiary was that with the long ranges that it had to fly in the Pacific to reach Japan, it could carry a load that was fairly equal to conventional Bombers. The B29 though was a weapons platform with a weapon in mind for it to make it a worthwhile project (one that ended up costing more than the weapon it was designed to transport).
The V2 was a weapons platform that had no weapon to go with it. It might be that they hoped to put a nuclear weapon on it, but my understanding was that it wasn't a major consideration at any time during the development of any of the rocket weapons that Germany developed.
As a side note, I once heard someone argue that the US space program was knocked backwards by allowing the German Scientist to take control from Goddard. I couldn't say for sure one way or the other.
Jill wrote: "You are probably right Dj that it was a bang not worth the bucks but if they had perfected it early.....well, who knows.
I just read The Last Battle by Cornelius Ryan (I have no idea why I hadn't ..."
I was under the impression that the US and the USSR both made heavy use of Germany's research and work in this field for their space programs?I am sure I read in a book somewhere that both sides made use of results of a number of tests conducted on Jewish prisoners in regards to a range of experiments conducted in one of the camps:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/S...
Not sure about 'knocked backwards' - IIRC, they were heavily involved in the Army programs, but not nearly as much influence with the USAF. (Been a while since I read up on this, though.)Would recommend this book for an overview:
A Fiery Peace in a Cold War: Bernard Schriever and the Ultimate Weapon
I've got a copy that I need to read, thanks for reminding me Miss M.
I really need to re-read it - retention does not seem to be increasing with age! :(
That's very true :)
message 185:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
Gents, I've read a number of books on both the US and Russian space programmes and how the German contributions played a part but in a context of wider industrial design and manufacturing capacity and technical innovation in both rocket engines and wider space craft evolution. An interesting perspective is to read this book on Sergei Korolev, whose own rocket programme progressed and saw his achievements begin with Sputnik. He of couse was not well known outside of the USSR and after initial success the story is one of great frustration - much like Von Braun in the early years - as the USA pulled ahead.
Korolev: How One Man Masterminded the Soviet Drive to Beat America to the Moon by James Harford
Alright, you got me, I added the book to my TBR list. LOL.Miss M wrote: "Not sure about 'knocked backwards' - IIRC, they were heavily involved in the Army programs, but not nearly as much influence with the USAF. (Been a while since I read up on this, though.)
Would re..."
Geevee wrote: "An interesting perspective is to read this book on Sergei Korolev, whose own rocke "curiously they had a segment on Korolev during the
Olympics. showing the history of competition for
the cold war. it was an interesting segment;
how they tried to keep it a secret who was
running the USSR space program.
message 188:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
That's interesting timing Carl. They certainly did keep it quiet so he never was known to the masses even in Russia. It he is good he is getting some wider awareness through the Olympics.
A history of the V-2 rocket:
by T.D. Dungan Description:
In August 1944, Londoners thought the war might be over by Christmas. But on September 8, 1944, in the London suburb of Chiswick, a thunderous double-boom was heard followed by a huge plume of black smoke rising high into the air. Several minutes later another explosion rocked the earth near Epping. There had been no warnings, no drone of aircraft above, just sudden devastation. "Operation Penguin," the V-2 offensive, had begun. The A-4 rocket, better known as the V-2, Vergeltungswaffen Zwei, or "Vengeance Weapon 2," was the first ballistic missile to be used in combat. Soaring over 50 miles high at supersonic speeds, the V-2 would strike its target within 5 minutes of launching. Once in the air its deadly warhead was unstoppable.
The ancestor of all Cold War and modern day ballistic missiles, as well as the rockets used for space exploration, the V-2 could not win the war for Germany—it was too expensive, too complicated, too inaccurate, and its warhead was too small—but its unprecedented invulnerability and influence on Allied planning made the V-2 and the advancements it represented the ultimate war prize, and British, American, and Soviet forces scrambled to seize German rocket technology along with its scientists and engineers. In V-2: A Combat History of the First Ballistic Missile, T. D. Dungan relies on an unparalleled collection of original documents, unpublished photographs, and accounts from those who were there to provide a complete description of the V-2 program, the missile's use in combat, and the race to capture its secrets.
message 190:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
looks interesting and thanks for posting Jerome.
Often I revisit one of my favorite WW II books --
Aircraft of World War II by Chris Chantwhile thumbing through today I noticed the entry on the Gotha GO-244. It was a Luftwaffe transport aircraft built simply by addition of engines to the standard transport gliders (Go-242A and Go-242B) which carried both cargo and troops. Most of the Go-244 aircraft were powered by French 700 hp Gnome-Rhone engines captured in large numbers by the Germans. The Germans used captured Soviet Shvetsov engines too.
Here's a photo:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/...
A interesting piece of information and a nice pic Manray9!
The ol' aircraft books are fun MR9. Amazing how many types of aircraft existed outside the well known 109s etc.
carl wrote: "The ol' aircraft books are fun MR9. Amazing how many types of aircraft existed outside the well known 109s etc."I agree. In addition to Chris Chant's book, I peruse this one often:
Hitler's Luftwaffe: A Pictorial History and Technical Encyclopedia of Hitler's Air Power in World War II by Tony Wood & Bill Gunston
I'm a great fan of Amber publishing's essential vehicle identification series, full of plenty of pictures and colourful drawings (I'm easily amused lol) Two of my favourites are:
;and 
by David Porter.
not really a weapon , but my grandfather who was born in 1918 he used to fold and pack parachutes in ww2, he said that after you packed the parachute you had to sign your name on the canvas , i guess to take responsibility.
Good story Franken, not that the packer could expect a visit from the user if it didn't work :)
Franken wrote: "not really a weapon , but my grandfather who was born in 1918 he used to fold and pack parachutes in ww2, he said that after you packed the parachute you had to sign your name on the canvas , i gue..."My dad was a USN parachute rigger in WW II. He served aboard USS ALBEMARLE (a sea-plane tender), with a PBY Catalina squadron in the Caribbean, and aboard USS BUNKER HILL (CV-17) in the Pacific.
In the military, packers/riggers also have to sign the data card on all parachutes.
message 200:
by
Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
(new)
A fascinating piece of family history Franken, and although not a weapon of war it was certainly a tool in terms of airborne invasions, secret operations, supply drops and of course evacuation from aircraft.
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found it and not knowing what it was, fiddled with
it and it exploded. But hey I could be rusty
on that, time to start searching."
Could be. I went down there to see the sword that had been given to the City, but it was in a building that was closed on Sunday. Tried to see the Tree that was planted as well, but it is down a long dirt road that isn't Ford Escort friendly, so that was a nice trip but failed utterly in seeing what I wanted to. LOL.