[F2F Book Discussions] June 2012: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Fellowship of the Ring. Moderator: Maria

[Joyzi]

Finished the fellowship last night. Onto the Two Towers :)

[Maria Ella]

REQUIRED basahin trilogy? Why are some reading the trilogy? kelangan ba? Kasi ako nahihirapan na ako kay Tolkien. huhuhu. ang hirap, nachachallenge ako. hay.

[Joyzi]

Sabi dun sa prologue hindi daw intended na trilogy naging trilogy lang kasi sobrang kapal na nung book 1000+ at di appealing sa market. So marketing strategy lang yung kunwari trilogy para bilhin ng tao.

[Tricia]

@Ella: SOBRANG BITIN KAYA NG BOOK 1. Saka nakakaadik din yung series.

@KD: haha! Sige, remains aka pangtake-out nalang, pwede? Haha!

[Joyzi]

@po di ko pa sigurado kung makakaattend ako, kaya nagjoin na lang ako online discussion

@Tricia oo nakakabitin tsaka yung binigay na e-book ni Maria yung tuloy tuloy e yung from fellowship to return kaya babasahin ko na lang din to hanggang return

[K.D.]

Mas magandang basahin ang buong series, Ella. Tsaka classic high fantasy yan. Kahit saang lupalop ka pumunta, basta reader, alam ang LOTR. Tas may Academy-award winner pa na movie adaptations. So, talagang maganda. Napanood mo na ba ang sine? It might help to understand or motivate you to read the book. Tapos magbasa ka rin ng Sparknotes, etc doon sa mga parts na di mo magets kaagad. And don't forget the maps at the start or end of the book. Makakatulong for you to visualize. Concentrate. Don't give up. Baka maging favorite book mo pa yan.

[Tricia]

IDK where to ask, dito nalang siguro. I have this edition of LOTR pero book 2 and 3 lang:





Gusto ko ng ganito na book 1. May nakikita ba kayong ganitong edition sa BookSale? I think, 1978 edition to.

[K.D.]

I'd like to agree with the member who wrote here that suddenly Book 1 seems to have disappeared from the bookstores. Last weekend, I went to 3 BS outlets and a couple of NBS stores at wala silang Book 1 pero meron silang Books 2 & 3. Ganito na ba ka-lakas ang TFG at nauubos natin ang stocks ng books nila?

[Angus]

Ella, hindi naman required basahin ang Two Towers at Return of the King, although may point naman ang mga nang-uudyok. Ako next month ko na babasahin ang Volume 2, medyo nakakaumay eh. But for the sake of discussion, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING lang. Babatuhin ko ng gluten yung mga dadakdak about the nonrequired volumes.

[Apokripos]

Tricia wrote: "Gusto ko ng ganito na book 1. May nakikita ba kayong ganitong edition sa BookSale? I think, 1978 edition to."

I also once saw the book 2 and 3 of that edition in various Booksale branches. Haven't seen any copies of the book as of yet.

Ganyan yong design ng edition na nabasa ko noong high school, though yong edition na nasa library, published by Unwin Lmtd. in UK namin ay walang pang sign ni Tolkien which shows your copy is a later edition. I think the one which published this book is his American publisher, Houghton and Mifflin.

The cover nga pala ay yang all-seeing eye ni Sauron, topped by the Ring of Power and surrounded by the Elven poem of The one Ring to rule them all.

Ganda ng edition mo, Tricia! :)

[Tricia]

Oo, Houghton and Mifflin ang publisher nito. Nakuha ko sa isang warehouse kaya malabo mahanap yung first book!

@Angus, nakakatakot ka naman. Masakit makagat ng gansa!

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "Babatuhin ko ng gluten yung mga dadakdak about the nonrequired volumes."

We have been warned by the Nazgul! Hahaha! 8`D

But honestly, being a part of the trilogy, mahirap pag-usapan ang Fellowship na hindi mababangngit ang succeeding books or The Hobbit.

But of course, I acquiesce to your request since you will be reading books 2 and 3 nor have you seen the movies yet, so rest assured, yes, I won't be spoiling it for you. :)

[Angus]

Hahahaha, hindi naman ako mangangagat. Manunuka lang ako. HOOONK! Regarding your edition, I think mahirap ng hanapin iyan kasi diba yung latest (?) ng Houghton and Mifflin na FOTR yung blue yung background? Try mo sa ebay.ph, hihihi.

[Tricia]

I will try my best not to say anything about the next books kahit napakadami kong tanong. Tatabi nalang ako kay Jzhun sa F2F hahaha private session LOL joke lang.

[K.D.]

Kung walang time magbasa ng Books 2 & 3, please watch the movies. Malapit na malapit ang movies sa books.

Sabi sa Rough Guide, sa shooting daw, required na yong actor babasahin muna (hindi lang ang script) kundi yong part ng book bago kunan ang certain scene. They read altogether to make sure na kuha ang gustong mangyari ni Tolkien. Thus the movies are very faithful to the book. Naiba lang ang sequence (at yong dulo at yong mga stories sa appendices ng 3rd book) doon sa third movie. Naiba sa book.

Mahirap talaga. Kasi pag tumigil ka na doon sa may fellowship at naglalakbay na sila, tapos yong kay Boromir then...bitin di ba?

[Apokripos]

K.D. wrote: "Naiba lang ang sequence (at yong dulo at yong mga stories sa appendices ng 3rd book) doon sa third movie. Naiba sa book."

Agree. Yong story ng buhay ni Gollum na kwinento ni Gandalf, nasa book 1, pero sa movie nilagay siyang opening ng The Return of the King.

The movie also incorporated in the plot the love story of Aragorn and Arwen which was originally placed in the Appendix in book 3. And I think magaling yong pagkaka-insert nito samovie to make balance sa journey nila Frodo at sa nangyayaring bakbakan sa Middle Earth. :)

[Charles]

Maria Ella wrote: "REQUIRED basahin trilogy? Why are some reading the trilogy? kelangan ba? Kasi ako nahihirapan na ako kay Tolkien. huhuhu. ang hirap, nachachallenge ako. hay."

Hindi pero bitin yung kuwento.

Pero warning lang, mas dragging (iba naman sa akin yung "boring") and Two Towers kaysa sa Fellowship of the Ring...

[Angus]

I don't know, pero ako hindi naman ako nabitin. Ang feeling ko pa nga eh ganito: sa wakas tapos ko na ang Volume 1! Ang arte-arte mo, Frodo, babalikan na lang kita next month.

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "I don't know, pero ako hindi naman ako nabitin. Ang feeling ko pa nga eh ganito: sa wakas tapos ko na ang Volume 1! Ang arte-arte mo, Frodo, babalikan na lang kita next month."

Anong maarte kay Frodo?

[Angus]

Don't get too touchy, it's just a manner of speaking. :p

[Tricia]

Haha! Angus, I find him a little bit maarte knowing may taga-alalay pa siya. I mean, he can do it on his own pero parang hinahayaan lang niya si Sam :P

@Charles: I find Two Towers exciting :)

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "Don't get too touchy, it's just a manner of speaking. :p"

As you say so. Hahaha! :D

[K.D.]

Charles, ako rin. I found Book 2 great but not as great as Book 1. Medyo di focused ang story sa 4 na hobbits that is intentional, para raw may suspense (ma-miss ng readers ang hobbits). Sa movie, they transferred the Shelob scenes sa 3rd movie. Ang highlight lang ng 2nd movie eh yong Ents pero okay lang kasi well-executed ang scenes. Sabi ni Peter Jackson, gusto raw nyang mas maging mas memorable the 3rd movie.

OA si Frodo. Lalo na sa Book 3. Sarap itulak sa bunganga ng bulkan. OOOAYE!!! Yong patirik-tirik pa ng mata hak hak.

Yon palang actor na gumanap ng Gollum, naging matunog sa Best Supporting Actor award kaso na-technical dahil may computer-effects yong character nya. Sayang lang.

[Joyzi]

Lol oo nga may pagka-maarte kasi parang may nag-aalaga pa sa kanya. Si Sam, pero choice naman ni Sam na lagi siyang samahan. Mas gusto ko din ang Two Towers kaysa sa Fellowship kasi andun na si Eowyn. :)

[Angus]

Tricia: Naartehan ako sa kanya kasi may I will go to Mordor alone drama pa siya! Like duh, kaya mong mamangkang mag-isa?

[Tricia]

Haha! Andami niyang moments haha!

[Marie]

Hi all,
I'm Marie. I think some saw me na. Nakapunta (well, humabol actually) na ako sa Hitchhiker book discussion. Lurker po ako dito online, pero I plan on going to this discussion sana. I love LotR kasi eh. :)

Question po. Bawal ba talaga ang spoilers? I tend to see that entire trilogy as a single story lang talaga, yun nga lang, hinati into three. Imho mahirap yatang maagdiscuss with just the first book lang kasi...

[Maria]

Gosh, ang hirap pag walang GR access sa office :( hahaha, nawala na naman ang connection, tuwing monday na lang!

Oh well.

Hi Marie. Just use the spoiler tags if you have something to spoilery to post.

Mas mahirap naman kung idi-discuss ang buong trilogy sa isang discussion lang. remember: hindi lahat ng readers natin ay into high fantasy books. katulad ni Angus na umay na book 1 pa lang.

[Maria]

Angus wrote: "Tricia: Naartehan ako sa kanya kasi may I will go to Mordor alone drama pa siya! Like duh, kaya mong mamangkang mag-isa?"

Chami: you have to understand na may hold or influence na din kay Frodo ung ring. When he loses his inner debate whether to give in to the ring or not, almost always pagkatapos nun he feels guilty na dapat hnd sya nag-succumb sa influence. ayaw nyang may madamay pa kaya may ganung drama sya.

kaya ung pag-iinarte nya i think, is normal lang. at kung c Elijah Wood naman ang nag-iinarteng hobbit, ok na din. ;)

[Marie]

Hi Marie. Just use the spoiler tags if you have something to spoilery to post.

Mas mahirap naman kung idi-discuss ang buong trilogy sa isang discussion lang. remember: hindi lahat ng readers natin ay into high fantasy books. katulad ni Angus na umay na book 1 pa lang.

Um, I meant in the F2F discussion? But ok, will try not to give spoilers then. Thanks!

[K.D.]

Maricris, good that you mentioned that.

I think it is hard not to refer to Books 2 & 3 during the discussion. Kasi nga the book was not intended to be published in 3. Hindi complete ang story ng Book 1. Walang denouement. Kasi simula pa rin lang ng journey ng fellowship. So, its not a complete novel.

Maria/Jzhun - what do you think? For me, okay lang. But the discussion should focus on Book 1 but I don't think we should tell somebody to shut up if he/she is trying to prove a point or support what he/she is saying by referring to any events happened in Books 2 & 3. But if the question is answerable by just referring to Book 1, then it should be okay.

Also, the book is well-written so, spoilers do not really matter. Anyway, most of us have seen the movies. Yon na rin yon. Spoiled na ng mga around 80-90%.

[Charles]

K.D. wrote: I think it is hard not to refer to Books 2 & 3 during the discussion. Kasi nga the book was not intended to be published in 3. Hindi complete ang story ng B..."

Maybe we should just use Spoiler tag like how I do it, since I do reference parts after the first book?

[K.D.]

Charles, I think Maricris is referring to the face-to-face discussion on the 23rd.

[Maria]

Um, I meant in the F2F discussion?

Still, please avoid spoilers as much as you can. ;) We have so much to talk about naman na on book 1 alone.

KD: i don't want spoilers in the F2F as much as possible. It will ruin the reading of books 2 and 3. challenge na nga ang basahin si Tolkien, pag nalaman na kung ano ang mangyayari sa 2 & 3, baka hindi na tapusin ang trilogy.

my two cents ;)

[K.D.]

Maria, o sige. Walang spoilers. It will definitely not come from me. I assure you that! *sealing my mouth from now on* :)

[Maria]

Thanks for the support, KD!

[K.D.]

Ako pa. Basta decision ng moderator, gora ako! :)

[Maria]

Guys, let's talk about the Ringwraiths. What's your take on them? Personally, i like them as villains. hehe

Charles & Jzhun: any links you wanna share relating to the Nine? ;)

[Charles]

Maria wrote:Charles & Jzhun: any links you wanna share relating to the Nine? ;)

Sa akin parang multo sa Pac-Man yung mga Ringwraiths. Technically you can't kill them. Pero may mortal silang kasangkapan kaya kapag nasira mo ito, balik sila sa base nila hanggang makahanap ng bagong damit :P

Pero mahabang discussion yung Ringwraiths. Kasi may 3 original Rings na galing sa Elves (spoiler na lang kung sinong may hawak ng tatlo...). Tapos gumawa si Sauron ng singing para sa Dwarves at Man at yung 9 sa Man ang naging Ringwraiths...

Overkill sa akin yung 9 (isa lang ang may "personality" sa kanila, yung Witch King, but otherwise, si #1-#8, walang individual identity; parang horde lang sila). 9 sila para may contrast at dahilan sa Fellowship of the Ring (na 9 din), pero kilala naman natin yung tauhan ng Fellowship.

Oh, pangpasaya: http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/wrai...

[Louize]

Charles wrote: "Oh, pangpasaya: http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/wrai... "

Thanks for this, Charles.
Sobrang tawa ko. :)

[Maria]

Charles, do the character of the Ringwraiths represent anything religious? curious lang.

[K.D.]

Charles, I have a question too.

If you remove the clothes of the Ringwraiths, do they look like Gollum? Because by definition, Gollum is a Ringwraith, right?

If yes, why did Sauron not get Gollum to his court? Also, why did Smeagol shrink to Gollum's physique? Ba't di sya magdamit? Does Gollum still have a penis?

[Tricia]

@KD: with the ringwraiths, di ba ang itsura nila without the hood/black clothes e ghostly appearance with blank eyes? Di ba yun yung nakita ni Frodo when he wore the ring (in the movie) and I remember in the book na same description sila hehe

@Charles, ask ko din (view spoiler)[ di ba si Galadriel is one of the ringbearer ng Elves. What does it mean na siya ay free, at ano ba yun, parang declared na safe? Yung after ng conversation nila ni Frodo after ng Mirror of Galadriel. Why? Dahil gusto niya din yung The One? Is she considered a servant of Sauron because she wears the ring? E bakit di niya nalang tanggalin, di ba? (hide spoiler)]

@Maria: I have a feeling that JK Rowling based the dementors from the 9riders.

[Apokripos]

"If you remove the clothes of the Ringwraiths, do they look like Gollum? Because by definition, Gollum is a Ringwraith, right?"

Because of the nine rings given to men by Sauron, they have been corrupted by its power, and being exposed to its corrupting effects for so long they have faded into shadow, or metaphorically speaking, a shadow of their former selves, who heed none but the command of Sauron. As Tricia pointed out, it is on the part in the book and the movie when the Hobbits are camping in Weathertop, when they were attacked by the Nazgul (what the Ringwraiths are called in the dark tongue/language of Mordor), that Frodo slips the Ring and sees the shadow of their former form.

If was from the fateful incident that Gollum has this habit of burying the Ring in the ground of the little island where he lurks when he was then hiding in the caves of Misty Mountains to protect it from theft by the goblins. It's for this reason, that by not wearing the Ring all the time, that made him quite immune — for a bit — from utter corruption of the Ring. He only have this manic obsession over it calling it "His precious". Yet indeed, he was but mere nigh to being a Ringwraith himself!

Remember, Gollum only uses the Ring when he ventures out of his little island when there's a scarce supply of fish on the underground lake and has no choice but to kill goblin/s for food (yes, he eats them when worse comes to worst!). He can't go out because of the long years of living in the dark made him cringe, or maybe afraid of the light, [figure out the symbolism in this statement for yourself just for fun, eh! ;)] and that nagging insecurity in him that the Ring might get stolen or worst, lost.

What separates Gollum from the Ringwraiths is that he still has the capacity to think, that he still has his will, that he still have a choice! Unlike the Nazgul who only follows the evil bidding of Sauron.


If yes, why did Sauron not get Gollum to his court? Also, why did Smeagol shrink to Gollum's physique? Ba't di sya magdamit? Does Gollum still have a penis?

As I said, Sauron is still recuperating during the time when Gollum and his friend fished the Ring out of the river, up until the pivotal point when Bilbo got it or stole it from Gollum. Sauron being Sauron — that evil having not the foresight nor the omnipresence — overlooks the fact that such a small, insignificant creature such a Hobbit would come to possess it. (view spoiler)[Sa tingin ko wala nang penis si Gollum. Kaya nga tinatakpan niya, nahihiya siya. Kasi bakit pa niya kakailanganing ibaon sa lupa yon kung pwede niyan naman ilagay sa... Nyahakahakahak! X'D Of course, I'm only kidding! (hide spoiler)]

[Apokripos]

@Tricia: Galadriel's ring has the power to heal. Double-edged nga lang kasi when she wears it Sauron is able to detect her presence, though not what she's thinking (emphasizing once again the short shortsightedness of evil; that though it may have dominion over all physically, it's still unable to rule them mentally.) O ha! :D

She's quite right in saying that she's still protected because of the powerful Elven spell surrounding Lothlorien. Remember, one can't just right smack enter the Elven woods unless they are invited by the Elves themselves.

[Charles]

Maria, I don't think the Ringwraiths represent anything directly religious, aside from the fact that they are corrupted shadows.

KD, that's why I made the Pac-Man reference. They are shadows inside. So whenever they were defeated, only their mortal form was destroyed. They'd just get new clothing/bodies and fight again. (view spoiler)[The Witch-King was the exception as Eowyn and Merry defeated him under very specific circumstances. (hide spoiler)]

Gollum is a corrupted hobbit, but he still has physical form, so hindi pa siya Ringwraith. :) Kung gusto mong isipin, Missing Link siya between Hobbits and Ringwraiths. (view spoiler)[Or how Frodo would have ended up had he continued using the ring. (hide spoiler)]

[Charles]

Tricia: The Elven Rings weren't created by Sauron, so they were originally corruption-free. When he made the One Ring though, all the Rings were bound to it. The Elven Rings are still relatively safe to use (unlike the Dwarven and Human Rings), but if Sauron got the One Ring, he can use it to control all the rings (and their respective users), including the Elven ones.

The Elven Rings also lost their power when the One Ring (view spoiler)[was destroyed (hide spoiler)].

[Apokripos]

@Charles: Your last comment made me thought that somehow Gollum is a doppelgänger both to Bilbo and Frodo!Oh, yeah! \m/ Apir!

[Charles]

jzhunagev wrote: "@Charles: Your last comment made me thought that somehow Gollum is a doppelgänger both to Bilbo and Frodo!Oh, yeah! \m/ Apir!"

(view spoiler)[Yun naman talaga ang intent eh. Which is why Gandalf stayed Frodo's hand in killing Gollum. Not because he was against killing (liberal naman sila sa pagpatay ng mga Orcs) but because Gandalf perceived Gollum as a moral creature (that's the problem with Tolkien's implied moral duality; corrupted creatures like Orcs [corrupted Elves] and Trolls [corrupted Ents] had no moral consequences for murdering them but this was not extended to the Free Races like Man [or elves or dwarves or hobbits]).

The One Ring represents stasis as well as corruption. Gollum stopped changing/evolving once he got corrupted by the One Ring because he couldn't age. That's also the fate of Bilbo and Frodo; they will not age nor change. That's also why they left Middle-Earth in the end. (hide spoiler)]

[Apokripos]

@Charles: Magpapaka-deep ako. (view spoiler)[Physically, yes they did not change. But spiritually something in them drastically changed and in the case of what Frodo went through to destroy the Ring he can't call Middle-Earth or Shire his home anymore. Which is kind of sad for in his fighting to retain the status quo, or specifically the innocence of life he once knew, his experiences left him forever wounded. Which is why I think LoTR ends in such a sad note. Nothing of what it seems at first is suppose to be now; even though we may be healed, it's hard to forget the scars that war, devastation wrought. (hide spoiler)] :)