[F2F Book Discussions] June 2012: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Fellowship of the Ring. Moderator: Maria

[Maria]

KD & Louize:

I'm not sure if i would've done the same thing as Bilbo. :( risk-assessment ang drama ko eh. since i find Gollum a high risk, eh i-eliminate ko na agad. LOL

Tricia: kelan palabas sa HBO ung trilogy? :)

[Rollie]

Don't know if I'll be able to read the book because I couldn't still find a copy. :| Watched the movie already, though. And that was for three times because like Tricia I slept when I first watched it. :D

[K.D.]

Hala, may insinuation hak hak.

[Charles]

K.D. wrote: "Maria wrote: "Chapter 2: The Shadow of the Past

So, if I were Bilbo (meaning I am a hobbit), would I have done the same thing? Yes. I believe in the saying "you reap what you sow" or kung anong tinamim, syang aaninhin so kung ginawa nya yon,

Para sa akin ito ang tinatawag na plot-seeding. Pero side ako kay Maria, risk-assessment.

[Angus]

Maria wrote: "If you were Bilbo, would you have done the same thing? Why or why not? "

Probably no. Gollum was threatening to eat Bilbo,for crying out loud! Survival muna bago ang awa.

[kwesi 章英狮]

Dapat ina-apply diyan ang first principle ni C. S. Lewis, ang conscience or the Law of Human Nature. Bwahaha.

[Angus]

Kwesi 章英狮 wrote: "Dapat ina-apply diyan ang first principle ni C. S. Lewis, ang conscience or the Law of Human Nature. Bwahaha."

Which is?

[Louize]

Kwesi 章英狮 wrote: "Dapat ina-apply diyan ang first principle ni C. S. Lewis, ang conscience or the Law of Human Nature. Bwahaha."

Correctness!!!

Thou shalt not kill!

[Maria]

I have Charles and Angus on my side! :D

rule #1 of human nature: self-preservation. Pak! wahahaha

[K.D.]

Onga. Sa sobrang pangit ni Gollum, parang nightmare yan kung di mo papatayin. Kaso, hobbit ako eh. Peace-loving. Kayo na ang Orcs o worse, Uru-khai! hak hak

[Angus]

Hobbit ka diyan! You're not answering as a human.

[K.D.]

O sige na nga ako na si Aragorn o si Faradir! Human na lang ako hak hak. Kung maka-kontra ka, wagi! :)

[Angus]

Yung tawa mo pa lang (hak hak) eh hindi na pang hobbit, pang goblin na siya eh!

[K.D.]

eh anong tawa ng hobbit?

[Angus]

Good-natured na tawa, hahaha, or hihihi, or hohoho.

[Tricia]

Hahahaha! Parang kinikilig na ewan ang hihihi

[Angus]

Imagine mo si Bilbo na tumatawa ng ganyan, hihihi!

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "Imagine mo si Bilbo na tumatawa ng ganyan, hihihi!"

Parang tawa lang ng Leprechaun, you know, yong horror movie. :D

[K.D.]

Ha! Ha! Ha! ---> siguro kasi friendly ang hobbits so dapat conventional.

[Apokripos]

Related geekery!

LEGO Mordor cannot be reached with plastic eagles

[Tuklas Pahina (TP)]

Maria wrote: "I have Charles and Angus on my side! :D

rule #1 of human nature: self-preservation. Pak! wahahaha"

Girl! diba yan din iyon sa Jeelicoe Road accdng to Dickens Self preservation?...

[Maria]

Kaloka! Pati ang pagtawa may analysis pa. :)

Po, basta self-preservation, bet natin yan. hehe

[Tina]

Chapter 3 na ko! I found the prologue kind of boring NGA, pero the first two chapters were quite okay. Natuwa lang ako kay Sam, especially sa end ng Chapter 2, when he burst into tears after knowing he can go with Frodo.

As for the question...I think I would've done the same thing. Kasi if Bilbo had killed Gollum noon pa, mababawasan ng excitement.

But seriously, it may be because I think I am too nice sometimes. So the first thing I would probably do if I were in Bilbo's situation is find a way to get out of there without hurting anyone...mortally, anyway. :P

[Tricia]

Re: question

self-preservation din but there's a little part of me that wants excitement. My life's too boring like a hobbit hehe

[Apokripos]

For Maria's answer, I think reading the chapter Riddles in The Dark in The Hobbit will give us a fair idea what made Bilbo decide not to kill Gollum.

Going by what Gandalf said in The Fellowship of the Ring chapter on The Shadow of the Past Gollum was a remote ancestor of the hobbits, so it might this felt kinship that prevented Bilbo from killing him.

So in answering the question posted by Maria, I stand by what Gandalf said to Frodo when they were journeying deep in the mines of Moria:

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

I ♥ Gandalf!

[K.D.]

The Tolkienese has spoken. Hear ye! Hear ye!

The case is settled.

WE WON!!!

Kamag-anak, Inc.

[Maria]

Jzhun: you already!!!

[K.D.]

Napansin ko lang: 5 stars ang rating nating dito (Maria, Jzhun at ako!!!) Di na ito mapapatumba. Lopsided ang discussion hak hak.

[Angus]

I wonder when The Tolkienese would stand by himself.

[Maria]

Mahirap patumbahin c Tolkien!

[Charles]

Well, the other reason why Frodo shouldn't kill Gollum is in Return of the King. :)

(view spoiler)[Gollum is the hero of the series. (hide spoiler)]

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "I wonder when The Tolkienese would stand by himself."

You'll set more of it during the F2F. :)

[Apokripos]

@Charles: I do agree. Gollum is a favorite character of mine, second to Gandalf, of course. :)

[K.D.]

My favorites:

Sam Gangee - Tolkien said that he patterned this on the British soldiers during WW I. Soldier rin kasi si Tolkien.

Merry and Pippin - for the heroic acts they did

Gandalf and Aragorn - obvious

Si Gollum - pinaka-complex character pero (view spoiler)[di ko sya favorite dahil sa ROTK. Sa dulo, bumigay pa rin sila ni Frodo. Si Sam, nasa kanya na yong ring, di pa rin sya bumigay. Ibig sabihin, matatag talaga sya. (hide spoiler)]

[Angus]

Jzhun: The way you answer questionsss strike me as a TV/street evangelist who's always quoting something. :p

No favorite so far, but I like Sam. I haven't encountered Aragorn yet. (I haven't seen the films yet.)

[Apokripos]

K.D. wrote: "Sam Gangee - Tolkien said that he patterned this on the British soldiers during WW I. Soldier rin kasi si Tolkien."

Yes, Tolkien was a soldier in the Battle of Somme.
Consequently, one of the message of the book (aside from its environment vs. technology aspect) is the futility of war. Tolkien was devasted by the lost of life he had witnessed during the World War I.

So you see, that's why the trilogy became a "hip" thing during the 60s, specially at the set off of the Vietnem War. In fact, if I remember it right, I read this one passage in Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien that subways in New York (or in some states) during that time were filled with banners as "Frodo Lives" or "Gandalf for President". :)

[Maria]

Angus wrote: "Jzhun: The way you answer questionsss strike me as a TV/street evangelist who's always quoting something. :p

wahahaha! c'mon jzhun, more quotes pa!!!

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "Jzhun: The way you answer questionsss strike me as a TV/street evangelist who's always quoting something. :p"

Then again, is there something wrong in quoting a book? Haha! :D

[K.D.]

Matalino nga ang dating eh. :)

[Angus]

Jzhun: No. Perhaps I just want to hear something more of your own (since I somehow only have memories of you quoting, referencing stuff).

(Please don't nitpick on being original and other stuff.)

KD: Mas maangas if others are quoting you.

Parang footnotes. Is a text more authoritative just because it has those? Is an answer or opinion more compelling just because it is quoted elsewhere?

[Charles]

Parang footnotes. Is a text more authoritative just because it has those? Is an answer or opinion more compelling just because it is quoted elsewhere?

Sa logical fallacies, it's probably appeal to authority.

[Apokripos]

Angus wrote: "Jzhun: No. Perhaps I just want to hear something more of your own (since I somehow only have memories of you quoting, referencing stuff)."

The discussion's just beginning, we haven't arrived at the good parts yet, and I'll say it again that you'll see more of my stand on the F2F proper. :)

I, too, have questions myself. Pa-deep questions, more specifically, just for you. *evil grin*

[Angus]

Ayan na ang mga argumentum!

Ay ayaw ko ng mga pa-deep questions lalo na kapag quote-related (The Little Prince, Jellicoe Road). Hindi ako makahirit eh, hahaha.

[K.D.]

Ayuun, kaya ayaw ng quotes.

Ako naman di ako marunong mag-memorize ng quotes kaya di ko kaya yang ginagawa ni Jzhun.

Pero matandain ako sa mga events lalo na kung naka-relate ako hak hak. Ito rin. Ito rin, kinukuwestiyon ni Angus. Bakit daw kailangang maka-relate para magandahan? Ano ba, lahat china-challenge! hak hak.

[Angus]

Eh kapag hindi mo chinallenge boring! At least may pwedeng pag-usapan. Most of the time, I'm just playing the devil's advocate, hihihi. ^^;

[Maria]

Bakit daw kailangang maka-relate para magandahan?

debatable tlg to at masarap na argumento!

pero kung ang isang tao ay ang sole purpose ng pagbabasa ay para maka-connect sya sa librong binabasa(story-wise or character-wise), then yung ang standards nya kung maganda o hindi ung book.

i love quotes. kasi pornographic este photographic memory ako. LOL

[K.D.]

Sabagay, maigi nga't andyan ka. Ikaw na ang devil!!! hak hak.

[Tricia]

@Jzhun: re message of the book, is it because Tolkien's pacifist? Is he?

Anyway, nakakaloka, palabas sa bus ang LOTR. Why all of the sudden naglalabasan ang LOTR? Na-spoil ako kasi 3rd movie yung palabas haha

[Angus]

Hindi ako devil, The Hunger Angel: A Novel nga ako oh!

And I invoke ...

The Law of Us and Them: Readers choose the degree to which they identify with characters.

[Maria]

Chami: isa ka pa. you already! you na tlg! lol