Mockingjay
discussion
Katniss approving another hunger games at the end?
She didn't want more Hunger Games! she had a reason for her doings! She just wanted it to end, which it did so she could have children and they wouldn't end up in this tragic world of killing a bunch of kids just as punishment.
Sheechiibii wrote: "I heard a theory that the rose she gave him was poisoned and that's how he died. I'm not sure I believe it though, but the rose was descibed as poisoned multiple times before she gave it to him, so who knows? I think if it had been there would have been more mention of it, but maybe it was meant to be a bit vague and confusing, because Katniss felt confused and not really with it at the time. I think it would be awesome if it was poisoned, the perfect way to kill Snow."I actually had not heard that theory, but I do remember wondering about the significance of the rose when katniss went out of her way over it. I don't remember the poison references, but that would have been a nice touch!
Kirby wrote: "Sheechiibii wrote: "I heard a theory that the rose she gave him was poisoned and that's how he died. I'm not sure I believe it though, but the rose was descibed as poisoned multiple times before sh..."I hadn't thought of it until I read it online, the poison references when I was reading I'd just assumed were her feelings of hatred and disgust over the way the roses were used as messages to her. He officially is said to have died from choking on his own blood, but how that came about is never explained, and it is nice to think that Katniss killed him with his own weapon. I like this idea, and since we'll probably never know for sure I like to pretend that's what she did.
Sheechiibii wrote: "Kayla wrote: "The children of the capital did nothing wrong. They were brought up that way with no other way of life. Katniss had no right to vote for those games and i was unhappy with her decisio..."If she'd voted for all that Prim stood for, I highly doubt she would've voted for the games to happen. She thought it was getting revenge for Prim, which is totally in Katniss's character. But in reality in might not have been the most ethical choice. Which is what makes Katniss such a well-developed character. She's unpredictable
I don't think she shouldve voted for another hunger games.
Gaby wrote: "I don't think she shouldve voted for another hunger games."You think she should have voted 'no', so that she'd never get the change to kill Coin - ensuring that a Hunger Games would definitely go ahead?
Casey wrote: "I don't think she voted for more Hunger Games with the intent of actually going through with it. She just wanted to get Coin on her side. If she had voted against it, Coin would have ignored her vo..."Agreed!
Kayla wrote: "Sheechiibii wrote: "Kayla wrote: "The children of the capital did nothing wrong. They were brought up that way with no other way of life. Katniss had no right to vote for those games and i was unha..."You are partially right. She did say yes to get revenge for Prim. Revenge against Coin for having Prim killed. She did not vote yes to actually have another Hunger Games.
At that point in the book, Katniss realizes Coin is just another Snow. If you actually pay attention to that part, you should understand she didn't actually want another Hunger Games. Haymitch also knows she does not want another one.
I'm going to use someone else's post here.
"(...), but I can feel Haymitch watching me. This is the moment, then. When we find out exactly just how alike we are, and how much he truly understands me."
And Haymitch says he agrees with the Mockingjay, not Katniss.
The Mockingjay being the symbol of the revolution.
Shelly wrote: "Kayla wrote: "Sheechiibii wrote: "Kayla wrote: "The children of the capital did nothing wrong. They were brought up that way with no other way of life. Katniss had no right to vote for those games ..."Exactly. I guess what I'm trying to say is Katniss's character does change in this book and it's true its "the mockingjay" voting for the Hunger Games and not Katniss. But even if she truly felt the Hunger Games were not something that the capital children should go through, she wouldn't have voted for them. She was depressed over Prim and needed a way to get back at the capital. As we know, after Prim's death Katniss wasn't stable. She hadn't been stable since the first Hunger Games but at this point she completely lost it. In her head, in the Mockingjay part inside of her, it was revenge for Prim and was the right thing to do.
Kayla wrote: "Exactly. I guess what I'm trying to say is Katniss's character does change in this book and it's true its "the mockingjay" voting for the Hunger Games and not Katniss. But even if..."Katniss did not want the Hunger Games to happen, she had no intention of letting it go ahead. She voted yes because if she hadn't Coin wouldn't have trusted her and given her the opportunity to kill her. She knew Coin was responsible for Prim's death, because she thinks it before she kills her. It would make no sense for her to want a new Hunger Games when she knew it wasn't the capitol who killed Prim, it was Coin. She said yes for Prim because she knew Coin killed Prim and the only way to be able to make sure things didn't just stay the same as they had been with Snow was to agree to trick Coin.
So Katniss never wanted another Hunger Games for the children, she would have rather died herself (which she thought would happen once she killed Coin). If she had voted no the Hunger Games would have gone ahead and she would have been powerless to stop it, voting yes meant she had the chance to be the mockingjay, to revolt against Coin and ensure the Hunger Games ended.
Kayla wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kayla wrote: "Sheechiibii wrote: "Kayla wrote: "The children of the capital did nothing wrong. They were brought up that way with no other way of life. Katniss had no right to vote f..."I think you misunderstood me. She may have voted yes for Prim out of revenge, but it wasn't for another Hunger Games. It was for the opportunity to stop Coin from becoming another Snow. Haymitch agreeing with the Mockingjay was his way of showing that he understood what Katniss was doing. The Mockingjay being the symbol of the rebellion against the Hunger Games.
She didn't actually want the capitol children to go through a Hunger Games.
It's right there in the wording of the book. I can understand some people being confused, but after people like Sheechiibii explaining the situation, i just don't understand how anyone can think she actually wanted another games.
I'm starting to think people are saying that just to start an argument or maybe they're just trolls.
I was disturbed by her agreement and went back and reread that part shortly afterward. It wasn't clear to me if she was agreeing to the games as a ploy like several people have mentioned above or... if she was agreeing to one last hunger games with herself as a bit of an "assasin" and leaving everyone else as the victor
I absolutely HATED it.
She did it so she could get to Coin. Coin already had the agenda in place. They were playing mind games up until the very end. Katniss finally just made the right choice to put herself in a position to kill Coin. Katniss would have been no better than anyone else if she had agreed out of vengeance or revenge.
Casey wrote: "I don't think she voted for more Hunger Games with the intent of actually going through with it. She just wanted to get Coin on her side. If she had voted against it, Coin would have ignored her vo..."I've never thought about it that way before, but I totally agree! That is probably the only way that Katniss would vote for another Hunger Games, because she understands how cruel they are.
I actually think that she approved it just to show president coin, that she's on her side. Haymitch understood her and voted yes with her. If I've been through what katniss lived, I'd definitely say yes too, the capitol kids never had that fear, or that sadness when they took their family, friends to the hunger games, Katniss wanted them to feel so.
Coin was as dangerous a dictator as was Snow. Remember, Coin already tried to kill Katniss. Katniss voting yes was only a ruse. Had she voted no, she would not have been free to act - and Coin may well have had her killed. Coin signed his own death warrant by proposing another Hunger Games. It wasn't a real vote, Coin wouldn't tolerate a vote. It's like a dictatorship you vote for the dictator or you disappear.
Morgan wrote: "Re-reading the section with the vote, it is clear that Katniss was just giving the answer Coin wanted to hear so Coin would let her guard down and Katniss would have the opportunity to kill her. S..."yes, I agree that SC should have been much clearer on this point.
Daniel wrote: "I laugh whenever someone say's something like this.There is no opinion's or point of views on this topic.
She did not say yes out of revenge or hate or anything else. She had no intention of letting another Hunger Games happen.
People really need to start reading the book instead of skimming through it. It's all in the wording."
THANK YOU.
Haidi wrote: "Yes, I agree with chris Smith, why can't people read the first few replies to the post, it does answer the reason why. Saying if was "for Prim" wasn't her real reason, she just said that for somet..."Some people haven't learned to "read between the lines" yet in books or how to read subtle undertones. While it makes perfect sense to many of us...others are going to question. It isn't necessarily bad but it is a point of frustration for some.
Interesting. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this next time I read it. I'll admit it didn't even occur to me the first time that Katniss was lying. The way I saw it, she'd already been through more than anyone ever should and finally lost it, like Frodo on the edge of Mount Doom. I actually wrote a post recently on why this makes Katniss and Peeta one of the great fictional couples ( http://fjrtitchenell.weebly.com/confe... if anyone's interested), because she's the one with the strength to complete the epic hero's journey, but he's the one with the goodness necessary to make any of it worth it in the end. I think it holds true either way, but it's certainly different if Katniss didn't really fall that far.
I like the idea that Katniss planned to kill Coin then, but I was under the impression she did not officially think it was Coin's fault until she talked with Snow. She at least seemed to have thought to kill Coin at the last minute.
Kaylee wrote: "Whatever her reasons, it makes her seem like a vengeful hypocrite."What? How can it make her seems like a hypocrite if she did it so that she could put a stop to the games? If she did it so that she could get Coin's trust so that she could kill her and therefore ensure that no Hunger Games would ever happen again?
Kaylee wrote: " SEEM . I didn't say it made her a hypocrite. And besides, I'm not for the she-knew-coin-was-evil thing."Like I said "how can it make her seem like a hyocrite?"
If she didn't know Coin was evil why did it say she did in the book? Why did she kill her? Besides, you said it didn't matter what reason, she'd still seem like a hypocrite, which is just not true.
Kaylee wrote: "How does it make her seem like a hypocrite? Because she is voting for exactly what she said was wrong. Aand she knew Coin was bad, but I think killing her and going against Coin's people wasn't s..."
But we're inside her head in the book, so depending on her reason she's either a hypocrite or not. If her reason was to trick Coin then she's not a hypocrite, if her reason was because she wanted another Hunger Games then she's a hypocrite. So of course her reason matters, it's the only thing that does.
As for the Coin thing, you can choose to believe it was a split decision if you want, but it's clearly there in the book before she votes for another Hunger Games - there's whole paragraphs where she thinks about how things will never change, will never get better, there'll never be peace, with Coin in power, how she'd be exactly the same as Snow, Katniss depending on Heymitch to understand her. To say it's a split decision goes against what is written in the book. She might not have planned it before the vote, but the way she thinks about it before she gives her answer makes it very clear she's planning something.
Griffin wrote: "Does it really matter? Katniss doesn't have a lick of sense at the end of that book anyway. The only thing she does right is kill Coin. And besides, did she really need to trick Coin into "trusting..."She needed Coin to trust her long enough to get the chance to kill her. If she'd said no to the games, she wouldn't have been let out there to kill Snow and she'd never have been gotten the chance to kill Coin.
Right Katniss fought so hard for there to be no more hunger games and i'm sorry but this whole thing started for Prim and THAT IS NOT WHAT PRIM WOULD WANT! Another Hunger Games for the Capitol kids, Prim would not approve.
When Katniss says "for Prim" that's her sign to Haymitch that she's not going through with the Hunger Games. She knows at that point that Coin was responsible for Prim's death (so saying for Prim is an indication that she's going to kill Coin) and she knows her sister wouldn't want her death to be for nothing for Coin to become the new Snow.
i think she is crazy! she didn't even want 2 be in the games and now she wants to send other children in?
*sigh* how so many people can misread the book this badly is beyond me...
You don't need to read between the lines. You just have to read what's written. It's all there as plain as day. She said 'for Prim' knowing that it was Coin who had Prim killed. She walks out and kills Coin, thereby ensuring that there will never be another Hunger Games. How can anyone interpret that any other way than when she said 'for Prim', that her entire reason for saying yes was to put a stop to Coin? It's not a hidden message or anything, it's right there if you read the book. That's not even mentioning how she went on about Coin being a second Snow (and how nothing would change with her) and how she looked to Haymitch for him to understand what she was doing (showing she must have been planning something) and say yes as well. Tell me honestly, how else would you explain all that?
Valerie :D wrote: "At first when I read that she voted for it I was so angry and appalled I want to throw the book across the room. Which would have been a bad idea considering I was reading on a kindle :p. But then ..."I think a trampling death has great symbolism. He was the cruel, evil dictator who metaphorically trampled over his nameless, faceless masses for decades. In death, it is a number of unnamed, unidentified people whom he had ruled over who kill him by literally trampling him underfoot.
Shannon wrote: "Right Katniss fought so hard for there to be no more hunger games and i'm sorry but this whole thing started for Prim and THAT IS NOT WHAT PRIM WOULD WANT! Another Hunger Games for the Capitol kids..."You're right, Prim would not approve of another Hunger Games, and neither would Katniss. That's just more proof of Katniss not wanting another Hunger Games
Daniel wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Right Katniss fought so hard for there to be no more hunger games and i'm sorry but this whole thing started for Prim and THAT IS NOT WHAT PRIM WOULD WANT! Another Hunger Games for ..."Also, Katniss did kill President Coin. If actions speak louder than words, then I think that that sheds a lot of light on what she thought of having another round of Hunger Games.
Casey wrote: "I don't think she voted for more Hunger Games with the intent of actually going through with it. She just wanted to get Coin on her side. If she had voted against it, Coin would have ignored her vo..."Wow, I had never thought of it like that. But that really makes a lot more sense...I had just assumed that Katniss was really going through a lot and made a bad decision. But I am pretty sure she said she voted yes for Prim, which is something she would never say unless she had a good motive. (i.e. killing Coin and ending the Hunger Games forever.)
Moriah wrote: "But why would she care what Coin thought after all the crap she gave Coin, and all the crap Coin gave her?"Good question. It isn't like Coin would be foolish enough to trust Katniss even after she said Yes to the new Hunger Games. Anyway the plot about Coin's death and her supposed involvement with Prim's death---Coin sent Prim to a death trap when obviously she is the only one who has the authority to do that on purpose? No wonder Katniss saw right through her scheme, it is pretty messed up. Plus if Coin wants to control Katniss so much, she should have kept Prim alive as a hostage, not sending the girl to a death trap.
Mizuki wrote: "Moriah wrote: "But why would she care what Coin thought after all the crap she gave Coin, and all the crap Coin gave her?"Good question. It isn't like Coin would be foolish enough to trust Katnis..."
But, Coin was foolish enough to trust Katniss. That's how Katniss was able to kill her...
It's not that Katniss was looking to gain her trust long-term. Coin probably would have killed her soon after anyway. Katniss just needed Coin to trust her enough to let her kill President Snow (so she could kill Coin in the process), which is exactly what happened.
It's even worse, Collins totally dumb-down Coin to make Katniss's assassination possible. How insulting.The problem we have here is a case of badly constructed villain. Coin is a badly constructed villain. We don't even know Coin. For the whole time I only have Katniss' words that she's bad. We don't know Coin's motivation and personality. We are only supposed to believe Coin is power hungry, cruel and somewhat stupid.
I had pointed out how stupid it's for Coin to send Prim to a death trap instead of keeping her as a hostage. Then i also want to point out it's pretty insane Katniss immediately wrote off Coin as a bad guy when Coin wanted to hold Katniss for her own end of the bargain. When I read to this part of Mockingjay, I really wanted to shake Katniss and yelled "Girl, grow up!"
I completely agree with everyone who said that she did it to get on coins good side because if she didn't show coin her support coin might have continued to look for other ways to destroy katniss!! I mean she killed her sister probably in an attempt to drive katniss insane with grief because killing her directly would lead to suspicion.Remember how earlier someone said to katniss that she had the most power over everyone because she started the rebellion and she was the only one who could compete with coin for power?? I forget who said it but they said if katniss didn't immediately agree with coin, coin would consider her a threat to her power because people listen to katniss and trust her about as much or maybe more than they trust coin.
Katniss just needed to pretend she agreed with everything coin wanted so that coin would be put at ease and not be prepared for katniss to attack.
i thought it was cause katniss was blinded by greif for prim... and then when she killed coin it was because she relized coin was evil.i don't know why haymitch said yes.
now i have to reread it.
i thought it was cause katniss was blinded by grief for prim... and then when she killed coin it was because she realized coin was evil.i don't know why haymitch said yes.
now i have to reread it.
History is filled with rebels who wind up being just as bad as the person they replaced. Coin wanted to start the Hunger Games all over again. That alone is enough to be clear what sort of monster Coin is. Coin was a dictator who was willing to murder anyone who stood in the way of power. Had Katniss not (pretended) to agree to a new Hunger Games, she would have been eliminated, and the new Hunger Games would have gone on and on and on.
Vonetta wrote: "Casey is right! Katniss always has a feeling Coin was evil, and when Coin suggested to have another Hunger Games for capital children it confirmed what Katniss already knew. She never intended to go through with another games. She and Haymitch truly understood each other at that point so that when she voted for it, he followed her lead knowing they would try to prevent it in the end!"Oh I didn't get that, I thought she was actually going to punish children for their patents mistakes! Now I'm okay that she voted for the new Hunger Games if she wasn't actually going to let it happen, I think I need to retread the books...
Ashley wrote: "Vonetta wrote: "Casey is right! Katniss always has a feeling Coin was evil, and when Coin suggested to have another Hunger Games for capital children it confirmed what Katniss already knew. She nev..."Don't feel too bad. I understood Katniss' reasoning the first time, but I totally missed the significance of Haymitch also voting for the games until someone else explained it to me.
It's so frustrating how many people have totally missed the point of this novel. Katniss in no way intended to let another Hunger Games happen, she voted yes purely to mollify President Coin long enough to kill her and her plan to bring back The Hunger Games with her. This is evident when she says that this is when she finds out how much Haymitch truly understands her. As soon as Katniss says the words 'For Prim', Haymitch knows she knows who is responsible for her sister's death, and that she is going to kill the President and prevent any more children from dying at Coin's hands. It's not a coincidence that Coin pledges the idea of a final Hunger Games just before Snow's execution. She is testing the Tribute's loyalty to her, and this is Suzanne Collin's way of letting the readers know that Katniss has been right all along and that Coin is not as different from Snow as she pretends to be.
To all of you saying that Katniss say 'yes' to get Coin on her side is ridiculous. If Katniss had said 'no' she still would've shot Coin at Snow's execution and things would've gone on like they did before. You are all just refusing to admit that Katniss got mentally jacked up and that she did something immoral.
Demosthenes wrote: "To all of you saying that Katniss say 'yes' to get Coin on her side is ridiculous. If Katniss had said 'no' she still would've shot Coin at Snow's execution and things would've gone on like they d..."She would have never had the chance to shot Coin if she said no. That shows how little you paid attention to the words.
Maybe you should actually pay attention when you read the book buddy.
I cried for hours about her choosing another Hunger Games. She is hurting people. That part just makes me really angry. I understand she lost her sister but that isn't right.
Daniel wrote: "Demosthenes wrote: "To all of you saying that Katniss say 'yes' to get Coin on her side is ridiculous. If Katniss had said 'no' she still would've shot Coin at Snow's execution and things would've..."OMG IM LAUGHING TOOOOOOOOOOO HARD
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That's the whole point though. She didn't choose to have another Hunger Games, it's all in the book. When she's given the choice she thinks about how nothing will ever change with Coin, how she's just like Snow. She says yes to get the chance to kill her and finally end it all. Why do people miss this?