City of Lost Souls
discussion
Sebastian Crushes...
Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get anything given away...so...SEBASTIAN!"Toats cray-cray, ik, but Sebastian just seems awfully lonely to me. Don't get me wrong, the guy's creepy as hell, but I still kinda feel bad for him. Anybody agree?
I feel bad for what was done to him by Valentine, but I don't feel sorry for him as a person.
Aneeqa wrote: "Woah, I didn't mean I approve of Jonathan's crush on his own sister! Its wrong and I know it. I'm just saying, apart from that, I really liked his character. So, nothing serious, but I think you to..."Oh, I wasn't directing it all at you. I was just saying it because a lot of people liked him and I was just explaining more so why I don't. ;)
Annievista wrote: "Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get anything given away...so...SEBAS..."I do agree with you and I do pity Sebastian. I think what happened to him was a very horrible thing to do to an infant or to anyone. I do think the things he has done are unforgivable and cannot be redeemed.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOR THE REST OF THIS POST!!:
So I was thinking about this and how it's still up in the air as to whether Sebastian really felt guilt for the things he did and if he was being honest throughout this book. He said that Jace's blood mixed with his and made him a better person. And I think it is a total farce and here are my reasons why:
1. We know that Sebastian is highly trained in tricking people and pretending to be something he is not, i.e.; likeable.
2. So Jace and Sebastian mixed their blood. Only a little bit though. Enough to make Sebastian have control over Jace. But if they both mixed blood, enough to change Sebastian, then Jace would have control over Sebastian too, which he didn't at all.
3. Sebastian's demon blood made him stronger than Jace. Jace could only beat him with help from Isabelle in City of Glass. A lot of it was due to Jace's compassion though, not from his lack of skill or strength. So I was thinking, if Sebastian's demon blood is more powerful than Jace's angel blood then there is no way the angel blood would have any effect on Sebastian.
4. My last point is Sebastian's demon blood didn't make Jace a different person. It was the spell that changed Jace. And when Jace was free for that short period of time when the rune was cut he was Jace again, not a demon blood mix of Jace. So the demon blood didn't change Jace's personality, the spell just made him a slave to Sebastian. And therefore there is no way that Jace's blood did anything to Sebastian just as Sebastian's blood did nothing to change Jace. The only point of the blood was to finish the spell and make them "brothers", not to change who they were.
In conclusion, Sebastian was full of shit and was still just a horrible person or whatever he is. He just happens to be a good liar. This isn't a proclamation that no one can like him or anything and hell I could even be wrong. If anything these factors make him into even more of an interesting character for me because of the lengths he is willing to go and the lies he is willing to tell. I just don't think that deep down there is anything that can redeem him.
Erin wrote: "Annievista wrote: "Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get anything give..."You are my hero.:)
Daisy97 wrote: "Erin wrote: "Annievista wrote: "Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get ..."Well geez thanks :)
Erin wrote: "Annievista wrote: "Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get anything give..."I agree with you completely.
Erin wrote: "Annievista wrote: "Marie wrote: "Okay, so I kinda began liking Sebastian...was it just me? If you are gonna state a spoiler, say SPOILER ALERT so people reading it right now won't get anything give..."You, uh, have a pretty long opinion there, huh?
Annievista wrote: "You, uh, have a pretty long opinion there, huh? ":) Yeah I am really good at using a lot of words for a little point. That was pretty much the bulk of my college writing experience.
Very good points though.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Very good points though."Thank you :) Clare is really good at throwing in things that you don't see coming at all so she could totally prove me wrong in the next book. She wrote him really well. He was very convincing.
Waaahhh!!!! I think there is something wrong with me. I kind of like Sebastian’s possessiveness. Guilty. I know his situation with Clary is just so…so impossible but dammit HE IS REALLY MANLY! So there. I hope its out from my system. Guys with the drive to get what they want fascinates me. He is creepy…that’s the truth but I couldn’t help it. He’s a puller…just like his father. hmmmmAbout him having demon’s blood in his vein, its not his fault. It's that rascal Valentine! I think he’ll be the coolest and protective brother ever to Clary if he doesn’t have it or his evil side will be completely stripped off from him. I just wish that it’s also part of the Michael Sword’s power or that heavenly flicker inside Jace. Can’t wait for the next book.
He just became my favorite villain and I don’t want him to just die. : (
Oh Cassandra Clare…Why oh why??? You dont have to do this.
lol
Thalia wrote: "Well, Nicole, your point of view is different, since you knew reading the series that they weren't going to end up that way by reading spoilers. Most people, like myself, went through the series ho..."Wait wait...I love this part you wrote "I don't know if Sebastian knows what real love is either. But I think he understands that his feelings for Clary are much different than what he's used to, and I think he's afraid of that. He's not entirely evil, swallowed up by wickedness. He's a Shadowhunter; he's human, angel AND demon; all that blood runs through his veins. Wouldn't you be confused, too? It's like when Jace thought he was part demon--he thought that's why he loved Clary. And maybe it's the same for Sebastian. "
OH MY GOSH! THAT IS FREAKING BEAUTIFUL!!!!
Erin wrote: "In conclusion, Sebastian was full of shit and was still just a horrible person or whatever he is. He just happens to be a good liar. This isn't a proclamation that no one can like him or anything and hell I could even be wrong. If anything these factors make him into even more of an interesting character for me because of the lengths he is willing to go and the lies he is willing to tell. I just don't think that deep down there is anything that can redeem him. "Indeed. I agree with you.
If he is to be redeemed (that will be so pathetic), there is only one thing that can do that to Sebastian. His dying self. When he is dying, after being stabbed with some heaven sword, he will somehow be back to shadowhunter Jonathan Christopher.
He will not be memorising all his mistakes and repent, for he was born evil and has never possessed any good memory of him being good.
Sebastian was fed with demon's blood, when Jocelyn was still carrying him. It should have been the great demon, for Valentine was aiming for a great result. He was born evil. That is why the devilish Valentine was scared of him, regretted his creation, regretted the evil he had made. Valentine would have not felt so, if there was human left in Sebastian.
When he died (and raised, for there having a handsome evil is way better for the story than having a suprisingly-easily-died mother of all demons in) he was brought up to life with Lilith in him. Sebastian was evil before he died and is super evil after the resurrection.
I love having Sebastian as the antagonist but I don't believe there is still good is Sebastian. He needs to die.
I kind of want a one-on-one final battle between Clary and Sebastian to end him, opposed to Jace vs Sebastian since that already happened...It would really have a good impact on everything, I think.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I kind of want a one-on-one final battle between Clary and Sebastian to end him, opposed to Jace vs Sebastian since that already happened...It would really have a good impact on everything, I think."Or Sebastian vs Magnus. Both will die then.
Nurlely wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I kind of want a one-on-one final battle between Clary and Sebastian to end him, opposed to Jace vs Sebastian since that already happened...It would really have a good imp..."WHHHAAATTT???!!!
Magnus Bane???!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Ariane wrote: "WHHHAAATTT???!!!Magnus Bane???!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! "
I read something about some main character will die in CoHF. Jace must never die. Clary must not die for her death will kill Jace. Cassie can kill anyone else... hahahaha
hes acually kinda nice and cassadra clare makes him sound really hot i had huge crush on Sebastian but in that part where Jace was saying its me its really me i fell in love with him again but i still like Sebastian.
Nurlely wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I kind of want a one-on-one final battle between Clary and Sebastian to end him, opposed to Jace vs Sebastian since that already happened...It would really have a good imp..."!!! I was just thinking about what Shadowhunter Girl said about Clary and Sebastian fighting and I thought "or it will be way out of the blue and Alec will kill him and then say something great like 'guess what, a gay guy just killed you, you big *enter cuss word or really good insult here*.'" What if Sebastian kills Magnus and Alec goes crazy and kills Sebastian or tries to kill him. I really think it's going to have to be a group effort though. I don't want Magnus to die.
Erin wrote: "!!! I was just thinking about what Shadowhunter Girl said about Clary and Sebastian fighting and I thought "or it will be way out of the blue and Alec will kill him and then say something great like 'guess what, a gay guy just killed you, you big *enter cuss word or really good insult here*.'" What if Sebastian kills Magnus and Alec goes crazy and kills Sebastian or tries to kill him. I really think it's going to have to be a group effort though. I don't want Magnus to die. "I don't want anyone to die too, but it is rather ridiculous since the fight is going to be bloody. Defeating the super villain Sebastian will cost a life. And I read something about some main character to meet his/her demise.
Alec to defeat Sebastian can only be accomplished if Sebastian is drained of all his power from 'killing' Magnus. I agree with the group effort in taking him down, unless Jace is to get a new power from his heavenly fire.
I just think I'd prefer Clary and Sebastian to fight. Am I the only one who is dying for something bad to happen to Clary? It seems everything happens to Jace! It want something to happen to her and see it through his perspective.And as for the Magnus vs. Sebastian thing...I'd be sad if Magnus died but I'd be okay...I didn't really like him in TMI but rather TID.
Jace will be devastated if bad thing happens to Clary and Jace has been through hell the whole series. As much as I think Clary as a not-so-bright character compared to Jace (as anyone else is)... I want to keep Clary safe for Jace.
Nurlely wrote: "Ariane wrote: "WHHHAAATTT???!!!Magnus Bane???!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! "
I read something about some main character will die in CoHF. Jace must never die. Clary must not die for her death will kill J..."
WTF!? No!!! No,no,no!!!
Chloe wrote: "OMG SEBASTION IS DIGUSTING, seriously he trys to rape clary (lol srry for the upfront words) but omg n wtf ('he fumbled at the button on her jeans') and ('he moved his face closer to her, n hes ton..."Hon, much as I want it that way as well, it probably won't happen
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I just think I'd prefer Clary and Sebastian to fight. Am I the only one who is dying for something bad to happen to Clary? It seems everything happens to Jace! It want something to happen to her an..."I agree that it would be nice if something bad happened to someone other than Jace for once. I don't think Clary is trained enough to fight Sebastian and win. The only way I think Clary could actually kill him is by some sort of stealthy sneak attack. But maybe she has more powers that we don't know about. She has picked up fighting pretty quickly. Who knows.
does anyone think Magnus might live for the Bane Chronicles?and who else wants seb to be cured and a good brother, despite however impossible that may seem. cassie can work wonders, you know
Maliha wrote: "does anyone think Magnus might live for the Bane Chronicles?and who else wants seb to be cured and a good brother, despite however impossible that may seem. cassie can work wonders, you know"
The Bane Chronicles might be the story about Magnus' previous life. He has hundreds of years to tell the readers afterall.... ;)
Sebastian being a good guy? I think it is too cliche... He has to die to get to that period, drained from his whole evil blood. And resurrection scene is rather boring now. We already have Jace died twice... :(
Cassandra goes against all the human body morals: none of her characters really stay dead. Jace dies twice, Sebastian dies once, Simon technically isn't even alive...I'm half expecting Valentine to suddenly reappear. I want the people (bad people) who die to stay dead. None of the bring-back-to-life crud anymore.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Cassandra goes against all the human body morals: none of her characters really stay dead. Jace dies twice, Sebastian dies once, Simon technically isn't even alive...I'm half expecting Valentine to..."Good observation.
i feel like i should hate him but i really dont and that makes me question my sanity
Laura wrote: "i feel like i should hate him but i really dont and that makes me question my sanity"I can relate with that. hmmm....
Laura wrote: "i feel like i should hate him but i really dont and that makes me question my sanity"You don't actually need to question your sanity. This is fiction, and we choose which character we love more. I usually love characters based on what they are in the stories, but it doesn't have to be that way. We can love any character because we choose to do so, not because others do so. This is not a presidential election, where the majority wins.... :)
In real life, things work differently. As much as we love dangerous stuff to 'cheer up' our lives, we will stay away from them... ;)
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Cassandra goes against all the human body morals: none of her characters really stay dead. Jace dies twice, Sebastian dies once, Simon technically isn't even alive...I'm half expecting Valentine to..."If Valentine comes back, god help the poor soul who is near me when I read this book because they are gettin it to the head. I do want the dead people to stay dead. They make me too angry to have them come back. If Sebastian dies again, he better stay dead!
Turquoise wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Cassandra goes against all the human body morals: none of her characters really stay dead. Jace dies twice, Sebastian dies once, Simon technically isn't even alive...I'm h..."Yes! Sebastian needs to just stay out of the way. If she brings someone else back to life (with the exception of Clary because I really want something major to happen to her because I'm dying to see how Jace will react and see it from his POV) I will be really mad.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Turquoise wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Cassandra goes against all the human body morals: none of her characters really stay dead. Jace dies twice, Sebastian dies once, Simon technically isn't ..."Agreed. If Clare gets to keep bringing characters back from the dead they only get one bring back. Technically Valentine already got his because everyone already thought he was dead and then he shows up again. I don't think she would bring him back though. Spoiler for city of glass (view spoiler)
I hope so. I don't want Valentine back. The guy needs to remain excluded from the picture.
Ashley wrote: "*guilty crying*SPOILERS
I feel horrid.
I didn't like Mortmain, De Quincy or The Dark Sisters but I feel bad for Sebastian. First of all Jace didn't get abused. Sebastion never gets to tell his fu..."
What...? How in the world could you feel bad for Sebastian? He's lied to everyone more times than I can count on both hands. He's killed innocent people. Maybe He's had a bad life, but after all that's happened, you should know better then to feel for him. I don't know about Mortmain yet (don't get me wrong, I hate him... It's just, I think his side of the story is far from over), I disliked De Quincy (even though I saw his point on certain dilemmas), the Dark Sisters were truly horrible. They deserved what they got. I hope Sebastian burns for everything he's put them through. And come on, really? He almost raped Clary and you "feel bad for him"? No, just no.
Sebastian is probably my favourite character.And before everybody flips out, I realize that he is a terrible person and has done unforgivable things, etc. I'm not arguing against that, those things are his fault and they are wrong and that's that. I just find him the most interesting of the bunch, probably /because/ he's so different from everybody else. His story is dark and intriguing and I can't wait to see how it ends.
I don't expect him to become good, and I do think he should die/face punishment, but I will be sad when/if he dies, in a way. I do believe we are meant to feel some sympathy for him, maybe not him as a person, but at least for his situation. It's not as if Sebastian chose to have demon blood injected into him or be raised to be a killer. Who knows how he could have turned out had he been raised like Clary was, or if him and Jace had traded places. His actions are still his own fault, but none of this would have happened had it not been for Valentine. In that way, I still see him as the main antagonist of the series.
For the record, I don't believe Sebastian is 100% bad. Nobody would write a character so flat. He's done many terrible things, but he does have angel blood in him. The capacity for good is there, even if he doesn't choose to act on it.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but it's just my two cents. :P
I believe something good will happen to him in the end. But I wanted to stake him after he told clary she spit fire in the bedroom and he had the claw marks to prove it. And the smile he gave to her to let her know he enjoyed it was sick.
Daisy97 wrote: "Ashley wrote: "*guilty crying*SPOILERS
I feel horrid.
I didn't like Mortmain, De Quincy or The Dark Sisters but I feel bad for Sebastian. First of all Jace didn't get abused. Sebastion never gets..."
jace did get abused. maybe not as much as Seb, but its mentioned Val used to beat him bloody
Maliha wrote: "Daisy97 wrote: "Ashley wrote: "*guilty crying*SPOILERS
I feel horrid.
I didn't like Mortmain, De Quincy or The Dark Sisters but I feel bad for Sebastian. First of all Jace didn't get abused. Seba..."
Plus, he got to see Valentine "die." Oh, and Valentine also killed his bird and taught him that love was weakness. I'm still soooo mad at him for doing that.
Ashley wrote: "*guilty crying*SPOILERS
I feel horrid.
I didn't like Mortmain, De Quincy or The Dark Sisters but I feel bad for Sebastian. First of all Jace didn't get abused. Sebastion never gets to tell his fu..."
I don't think you should feel bad for that. Feeling compassion is one of the things that makes us human. I feel bad for Sebastian and what his life has been like. I don't believe that he will ever become good and even if he did his crimes are too great, the clave would never let him live. I think the most important thing is knowing when to draw the line between feeling bad for someone and condoning their actions, which you obviously do.
Mim wrote: "Sebastian is probably my favourite character."
He isn't my favorite character but I do think he is interesting. I agree, I think Clare wanted us to think about his situation and feel bad for him. Though I think at the end, when he tried to rape Clary and with the angel wings and the people he ruined, Clare wanted us to realize that he wasn't what he said he was. That he was a liar and not a good person. That's what I think anyway, I could be wrong though.
I started liking sebastian when he was walking around Paris with Clary :) Yes he kissed his sister but i dont believe that he's actually in love with her. I think it was more out of pure loneliness...there was this part in the book where sebastian, i think, said something about dying and having no one mourn for you or even care. It seemed quite true in sebastian's case.
Lena wrote: "I started liking sebastian when he was walking around Paris with Clary :) Yes he kissed his sister but i dont believe that he's actually in love with her. I think it was more out of pure loneliness..."So, you're saying as long as you're "lonely" it's perfectly fine to commit incest??? WTF!?
I like Sebastian too. He's cunning and smart and extremely clever.
Daisy97 wrote: "Lena wrote: "I started liking sebastian when he was walking around Paris with Clary :) Yes he kissed his sister but i dont believe that he's actually in love with her. I think it was more out of pu..."I never said that it was OK for him to practically rape his sister. I was just trying to prove my point about him not being IN LOVE with Clary.
I like him. Don't get me wrong, I know he's a sadistic and sick brute who kissed his own sister (and trust me, he didn't stop there), but he is smart, and even Clary admitted he was good-looking, and I just felt kind of sorry for him by the end. He was twisted, yes, but a majority of it came from his upbringing. You can't blame him completely.Yeah, I like a sadistic, power crazed maniac.
That's right. You stare.
I'm real normal.
lol
I hate him.
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Thank you! I agree.