City of Lost Souls
discussion
Sebastian Crushes...
Okay, okay. I understand those of you who hate Sebastian. I get it. I did to until I read City of Lost Souls.(may be spoilers. Read at your own risk)
After him doing Valentines bidding and possessing Jace at the end of City of Fallen Angles, I truly hated Sebastian. He had to go down.
But when he was deceiving Clary that he changed, I was totally caught in the act. After realizing that is wasn't an act, I was stunned. I was so wrapped up in what he was saying. It sounded so honest.
Though when he did kiss Clary an tried to rape her, that was a bit creepy, but like other people said he just doesn't understand.
I really don't want to make this a big rant so here is the short.
1. I love him because he can deceive people so well (don't ask why, I just do)
2. I love him because he has made some memorable quotes that I will never forget ("That's my sister your violating there.")
3. I love him because past all that demon blood I believe there is still some good in him.
Nicole wrote: "He is one of the creepiest characters ever.He's wants his sister as a girlfriend how messed up is that.He also wants Jace has his mind slave.I can't wait intil the next book and Sebastian's downfall."i agree i hate sebastian but his dialogue was funny
I think Sebastian is one of the best villians there is, to be completely honest. He's really good at being evil, but at the same time, it's so pitiful that he never really even had a choice.
I always end up loving either the gay guy or the one who wants to hook up with his sister :(
OMG, I thought it was just me who was liking Sebastion!!! Like serously, I loved him sooooo much in this book and then he went and kissed Clary and I was like, "NOOOOOOOOO SEBASTION YOU FOOL, THAT'S YO SISTER!!!!! STOP BEING EVIL AND LIVE A NORMAL LIFE YOU HANDSOME HANDSOME FUNNY BOY!!!!!" and then I hoped it was just some mistake, hopefully maybe they will cure him of demon self in the next book. I swear if that happens I will rate it a 5 GOLDEN STAR BOOK :D
ok well i really like sebastian even after the clary inncident.you have to think of it like this he spent his whole life around someone who was obbsesed with one person... clarys mother(who inncidently looks just like clary)so its not hard to believe that he loves clary.if you were around someone who wont stop talking ,thinking ,writing, and buying things for one person your going to wonder why that person was so great and your going to want love like that.so i dont blame sebastian for anything he did.BUT i do not approve of sebastian and clary relationship.although i did think it added alot to the whole plot story line and i never ever expected it to happen.it was very smart of the author because now i cant wait foe the next book to see what happens to sebastian.
man that was a whole lot of unexpected hotness lol i wonder what Jace would do if Clary told him about the kiss or if he felt it lol gosh this this book was just.... ugh wonderful
Nikki wrote: "ok well i really like sebastian even after the clary inncident.you have to think of it like this he spent his whole life around someone who was obbsesed with one person... clarys mother(who inncide..."Also that Valentine encouraged Sebastian to have a relationship with Clary in City of Glass, even if it were only to distract and trick her. Valentine was the one telling him to interact with her and get to know her and get to her--honestly, I feel like I should have expected him to have feelings for her by this point. I'm still disappointed in the way he handled it, and I don't like (at all) that he tried to sexually force himself on Clary, but I understand the feelings and frustration behind it.
I like Sebastian. His character is seriously lost and a life of solitude makes him want family. If there is no one to teach you that family can not be "together" then it's understandable he'd confuse love and wanting. I also like Cassandra's way of seeing his evil as logical (until you start killing people of course)his plan makes sense it's just the way he tries to fulfil it. Can't wait for the movie. Who will play Sebastian?
♥ Alexia -Team Malec ♥ wrote: "Thalia wrote: "Like Alexia said, I think he wants to love/be loved, but he doesn't know how. And do you think he ever had a society around him or his father ever said, 'Now, it's totally not okay t..."agreed!
Nicole wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "...maybe but maybe not. Who knows? Maybe Mortmain is a genetic link to Valentine which might cause some type of generation pass-on that would result in Sebastian still hav..."That can be concluded with EVERYBODY though. Of course he'd be different if Valentine never impacted Sebastian's life. If Clary had been raised by him she'd probably be screwed up, too. But the fact is is that Valentine ,i>did raise him, experiment on him, and that there will never be a point when I like Sebastian. And I know he doesn't understand about the whole Clary-thing, but he's not a newborn baby. No one can really deny that he is completely incapable of judgement and right or wrong. He can differentiate and he chooses to do wrong, regardless of what flows through his veins. I'm not saying no one shouldn't like him, or aiming this at people who do. I'm simply saying that there isn't really anything that will make me see Sebastian as anything other than just...dark.
And Mortmain is totally his ancestor! At least he should be, or he was definitely Valentine's inspiration.
Sebastian was an intricately woven character. I enjoy his flaws and his dark strengths immensely. I have to say I'm a total sucker for a seductively sadistic villain like Sebastian, so...crushing? Yeah, I'll admit it. A little bit.
He's just soooooo messed up...I LOVE it!
I like the chemistry between him and his sister, Clary. It's charged to the brim with ire and conflict. I know a romantic relationship between the two characters would be utterly and compellingly wrong, but I cannot help enjoying their scenes together. The best and most entertaining character to character relationships are like the one shared between Clary and her brother, even if they aren't healthy ones.
Perhaps that's what makes them so compelling: their perverse abnormalities. Their wrongness. It’s a terribly addictive novelty.
He's just soooooo messed up...I LOVE it!
I like the chemistry between him and his sister, Clary. It's charged to the brim with ire and conflict. I know a romantic relationship between the two characters would be utterly and compellingly wrong, but I cannot help enjoying their scenes together. The best and most entertaining character to character relationships are like the one shared between Clary and her brother, even if they aren't healthy ones.
Perhaps that's what makes them so compelling: their perverse abnormalities. Their wrongness. It’s a terribly addictive novelty.
Okay so there is so much more people loving Sebastian than I thought, I totally agree with you girls Marie and Thalia, I read all your comments of ALL the 4 pages, and Thalia you almost make me cry...And all the people out there that love Sebastian I think there is still hope for Sebastian and I don't know if he is going to survive, but I want him to die been good or something like that, like risking his life for Clary or even Jace
I would normally go with Shadowhunter Girl's (Hatter's Girl)point of view but with this character I have the weird urge to just run to him and hug him and tell him that I will forgive him or believe in him.
I know that he had done bad things but look around you, Is there enough bad people in jail? or is there people out there who deserve a second chance? (Its a bad example, I know)
I really like what Cassandra did with this character, how in COLS you knew more about him and how he can be a good brother, I really think that he is a good brother, I would love my brother threat me like that(NOT LIKE when he kissed Clary, that's just messed up, but I still think he doesn't know what he wants)
The entire time I was reading this book, I was waiting for that kiss between Clary and Sebastian. I mean, the author dropped hints all over the place. Like how Sebastian would always embrace Clary from behind. Or how Clary would always mistake him for Jace (almost subtly making him the equivalent to Jace.) Or how about at the club when he was sitting by the water fountain and he said, "I like watching," or something like that (in reference to Clary and Jace dancing in a lascivious manner.) It just didn't sound right, you know? There wasn’t a moment in time when I thought he was being nice to Clary just because she was family. I knew there had to be something else much more warped beneath the surface.
I don't thinks he's a good brother or a good person in this book, mainly because of his twisted upbringing. He grew up with a fractured idea of what love was. It was modelled after his father's ideas about love, which were unquestionably perverse. Now Sebastian wants Clary to love him, just as his father wanted Jocelyn to love him, and he's doing exactly what his father did: taking Clary without consent. He does not understand that love cannot be forced out of another person: it has to grow naturally. He doesn't understand that the way he expresses his love, or how he demand it from others, isn't normal.
I think Sebastian's slightly sociopathic, making him unaware of a person's feelings about or reactions to a situation (especially a negative one.)
All that being said, I have an undeniable crush on this character. His tortured past (see whipping scars on his back as deep as valleys via Valentine), his desperation to be loved, his confusion...it's all rather abnormally endearing. He's broken, and I'm one of those people of want to fix everything. Especially people.
I don't thinks he's a good brother or a good person in this book, mainly because of his twisted upbringing. He grew up with a fractured idea of what love was. It was modelled after his father's ideas about love, which were unquestionably perverse. Now Sebastian wants Clary to love him, just as his father wanted Jocelyn to love him, and he's doing exactly what his father did: taking Clary without consent. He does not understand that love cannot be forced out of another person: it has to grow naturally. He doesn't understand that the way he expresses his love, or how he demand it from others, isn't normal.
I think Sebastian's slightly sociopathic, making him unaware of a person's feelings about or reactions to a situation (especially a negative one.)
All that being said, I have an undeniable crush on this character. His tortured past (see whipping scars on his back as deep as valleys via Valentine), his desperation to be loved, his confusion...it's all rather abnormally endearing. He's broken, and I'm one of those people of want to fix everything. Especially people.
Sebasian is a total freak. Whats up with him being all like 'Clary you belong to me' and kissing her and being a total creep
Frasia wrote: "The entire time I was reading this book, I was waiting for that kiss between Clary and Sebastian. I mean, the author dropped hints all over the place. Like how Sebastian would always embrace Clary ..."Well Done!
I couldn't agree with you more! http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9r...
Caro wrote: "Okay so there is so much more people loving Sebastian than I thought, I totally agree with you girls Marie and Thalia, I read all your comments of ALL the 4 pages, and Thalia you almost make me cry..."Okay, I'm sorry for almost making you cry, but that's one the sweetest comments I've ever gotten about anything. I'm glad it was worth it to read all those pages of comments, hahah. (:
All I can do is reiterate how I felt in my other comments. I feel bad for him, and I think he's desperate for someone to love him. It's easy for us to judge and say he should have known between right from wrong, but how could he possibly know when nobody--nobody--ever told him there were two different things?
Honestly, I agree with Frasia--I was waiting for it, and my heart broke when Clary found the beginning of his note. It just about killed me. :/ It's so sad how much he wants to be loved and has no clue how to go about doing it. And when being nice and whatever didn't work, he reverted back to what he's used to and tried to take what he wanted by force.
Thalia wrote: "Caro wrote: "Okay so there is so much more people loving Sebastian than I thought, I totally agree with you girls Marie and Thalia, I read all your comments of ALL the 4 pages, and Thalia you almos..."Ha, don't worry I am a easy person to make cry; yeah totally worth it. All my friends HATE Sebastian, I just need a little support in that side.
I know, some part of me knew that it will happen, but when he kissed Clary and he started been all creepy, I just wanted to cry because I believed in him, like a good brother or like a good person, but when he said that to Clary I was so dissapointed because that ruined the little brother-sister relationship they have.
I also like when Helen's brother ask Clary "Is that why you look so sad?" refering to Clary as not having brothers.
The theme brothers and sisters makes me all emotional:/ And mostly because I think that's how he search for love.. been all bad, he needs someone who understand him.
First half of city of lost souls I thought that Clare was going to turn him good and reveal another Big Bad, but nope. He just ended up as a psycho. And left me utterly confused with another book-crush.
Yeah, the way he treated Clary before he got creepy was really sweet, and I believed in him. Like when he gave her his scarf or something when she was cold, and asked her if there was forgiveness for people like him, and just the way he took care of her. It was so sweet and it really got to me, having older brothers myself. He really just wants to be loved, and I think that because he was sharing feelings with Jace, he fell in love with Clary and didn't know what to do about it.
I liked Sebastian. He was one of those evil characters that you adore.... that sounds really weird...Oh, well.
Marti wrote: "Sebasian is a total freak. Whats up with him being all like 'Clary you belong to me' and kissing her and being a total creep"Thank you. No offense to anyone who likes him but the majority of people who post things like Sebastian and I felt like the only one who really just felt seriously disturbed on the Clary-Sebastian bit.
I was soooo hoping that Clare would not make Sebastian turn down that road, wanting him to just be that older brother figure,but oh no, he had to go off and contradict everything (and I mean everything) that a brother is supposed to do.
And I wouldn't really compare Jocelyn and Valentine to Clary and Sebastian, just cuz they are actually related which definitely complicates matters and increases the level of...creepiness and just no.
Gabby wrote: "I liked Sebastian. He was one of those evil characters that you adore.... that sounds really weird...Oh, well."
Really well said, Gabby! The simplicity of your remark sums up my feelings in regards to Sebastian faultlessly.
Really well said, Gabby! The simplicity of your remark sums up my feelings in regards to Sebastian faultlessly.
It was also so obvious the second you saw that note adressed to "My Beautiful One" that the letter was adressed to Clary and he wanted to have a far from brotherly relationship with her.
CC seems to have a thing for incest...who knew?
I really hope Sebastian finds a path towards the light sooner and not any later. I think he's an excellent character in these books, im sure even as a villain many of us would HATE to see him die and rot in hell.He just needs love, and i know he was never taught how to love, but then again if he kissed Clary...maybe there is a hope that he loves someone? like Clary?
I mean obviously, a brother would love his sister to bits, but not like wanting her in a way that would make you go EEEK!
Zooie wrote: "Gabby wrote: "I liked Sebastian. He was one of those evil characters that you adore.... that sounds really weird...Oh, well."Really well said, Gabby! The simplicity of your remark sums up my feel..."
Thank you :D
S.L.J. wrote: "CC seems to have a thing for incest...who knew?"Well, so did Clary and Jace for a while. They didn't care.
Gabby wrote: "Zooie wrote: "Gabby wrote: "I liked Sebastian. He was one of those evil characters that you adore.... that sounds really weird...Oh, well."
Really well said, Gabby! The simplicity of your remark s..."
Your welcome!
Really well said, Gabby! The simplicity of your remark s..."
Your welcome!
Well, well... I'm liking Sebastian in this book. LOL! I think there is still good in him and that he can still be saved. He's a Shadowhunter after all. But I really want a happy ending to them all especially for the Shadowhunters since they're like heroes. Demons should be just their enemy.Anyway, I like Sebastian and his coversations with Jace. Even though after he kissed Clary, I still kinda like him.. Haha! Maybe he's just interpreted his feelings for something else.
I like that line where he's talking to Clary and told her they can share JACE together! LOL! Can't stop laughing with that! Can you share Jace with me too??!!! HAHA! :P
OK,so i never really liked Sebastian, but i kinda feel sorry for him. i mean, its not his fault that he is part demon. i blame Valentine. and i think it could be lonely. he has no one that really loves him. i feel bad for him in a way. i still hate him, but he didnt do this to himself.
I like Sebastian more than Jace :PI prefer the BAD boys!
TeeHee
Yeah, Sebastian is the bomb. In a insesty, sociopathic kinda way....
Really guys? Really? This guy is a psychopathic murderer/kidnapper/possessor/RAPIST. Yep. I think you need to sort yourselves out.
I sort of like Sebastian but he did freak me out.... Hope he comes back in City of Heavenly Fire!!!!! LOVE THE MORTAL INSTRUMENTS
Ally wrote: "Really guys? Really? This guy is a psychopathic murderer/kidnapper/possessor/RAPIST. Yep. I think you need to sort yourselves out."
Thank you for being so respectful of the thoughts of other people. Especially in a forum that is supposed to allow you to espress your ideas freely. You're a real prize of a person.
Thank you for being so respectful of the thoughts of other people. Especially in a forum that is supposed to allow you to espress your ideas freely. You're a real prize of a person.
Ally wrote: "Really guys? Really? This guy is a psychopathic murderer/kidnapper/possessor/RAPIST. Yep. I think you need to sort yourselves out."Ouch, talk about rude. :/
Ally wrote: "Really guys? Really? This guy is a psychopathic murderer/kidnapper/possessor/RAPIST. Yep. I think you need to sort yourselves out."Settle down.
He's not a rapist, possessive isn't a crime, murdering is what defines his roll in the book and his goal is logical. As for kidnapper; being trained to burn down the world and being lonely....it all adds up! I'm team Sebastion, always!
http://pinterest.com/pin/937312359659...
BTW don't read Romeo and Juliet! That was a 3day love story about two teenagers (13 and 17) where 6 people died! Just warning you
what's up with him saying he liked isabelle? and who the hell is his 'dear beloved' ??i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone else think he's like brennus, pining for one girl while sleeping with others?
and if can't even have his sister to love him...well, he did kill max, sebastian and hodge. i can't wait for a showdown between him and jace when he taunts him about almost raping clary. possessive hot guys are so amusing!
Nicole D. wrote: "He is one of the creepiest characters ever.He's wants his sister as a girlfriend how messed up is that.He also wants Jace has his mind slave.I can't wait intil the next book and Sebastian's downfall."I completely agree with you! I was like dude she's RELATED to you! Why on EARTH would you kiss her! I was just grossed out. Normally when I read Cassandra Clare and she makes the main girl (Clary or Tessa) kiss the guy I don't like I just shout NOOOO but when he kissed her I was just like EWWWW....
Maliha wrote: "what's up with him saying he liked isabelle? and who the hell is his 'dear beloved' ??
i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone else think he's like brennus, pi..."
His "Dear Beloved" is Clary.
i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone else think he's like brennus, pi..."
His "Dear Beloved" is Clary.
Zooie wrote: "Maliha wrote: "what's up with him saying he liked isabelle? and who the hell is his 'dear beloved' ??i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone else think he's l..."
really? that is...weird. he said he hated her cause she wasn't like him and then he gets a mug like that for her?
Maliha wrote: "Zooie wrote: "Maliha wrote: "what's up with him saying he liked isabelle? and who the hell is his 'dear beloved' ??
i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone els..."
Yeah, he may have said he hated her but we all know Sebastian isn't exactly candid. Then he kissed her and started unbuckling his pants. Actions speak louder than words, my friend. Actions speak louder than words.
i pity him for being so lonely and needing to burn down the world. and anyone els..."
Yeah, he may have said he hated her but we all know Sebastian isn't exactly candid. Then he kissed her and started unbuckling his pants. Actions speak louder than words, my friend. Actions speak louder than words.
i like sebastian. hes funny, probaby cute, he needs someone to be there for him (if what he says is true and he wants clary to be there so that he would't be alone.and about him kissing clary, thats awkward and all, but there was a time when jace and clary thought they were brother and sister and they were kissing like the world was going to end. im not saying that Clary and Sebastian should be together because that would be disgusting. im jsut defending sebastian. i dont think hes that bad
Lily wrote: "i like sebastian. hes funny, probaby cute, he needs someone to be there for him (if what he says is true and he wants clary to be there so that he would't be alone.and about him kissing clary, th..."
First of all, Clary and Jace loved each other and I know that doesn't exactly justify kissing your possible sibling, but it's a lot different because Sebastian basically threatened to rape her.
Hatter's Girl wrote: "Lily wrote: "i like sebastian. hes funny, probaby cute, he needs someone to be there for him (if what he says is true and he wants clary to be there so that he would't be alone.and about him kiss..."
EXACTLY! I totally agree with you!
I <3 Sebastian more than i love any other character. I prefer the bad boys, and he totally is cute and hot and makes more sense than the other lot who are all grooming in looovvveeee :P*Sebastian in the corner hunched over* 'PUKE, EVERYONE IS MAKING OUT, PUKE, PUKE, UGH, WHEN IS THIS STRIPPING AND KISSING AND I LOVE YOU PLEAING EVER GONNA STOP?' PUKE!
I feel sorry for him :P
I have no idea why but I've always liked Sebastian… Even after city of lost souls… I DON'T want him to change because even though he was cruel and horrible, he was definitely the most interesting character in the whole series (just my opinion). No, I'm not saying he isn't a bad person, but I have no idea why but I still like him, I guess I kind of agree with Valerie on that one. But he was he was definitely the most interesting character in the whole series :)
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He doesn't understand. I mean (also like Phantom), he neve..."
I love the Phantom too! He's the perfect comparison for Sebastian! I felt really bad for Sebastian too. I think it did have to do a lot with his upbringing, and yes I was also thinking it had to do with Valentine. In City of Glass, Jace told him that Valentine was ashamed of Sebastian. It's probably true. He's ashamed and hates what he's done, but Sebastian was the perfect weapon, so Valentine trained him to be better. And while I think he might be human in the end, I really don't think Clary or anyone can do much for him now. Lilith said the demon blood would burn the humanity out of him. I think it would take something really drastic, really big, for Sebastian to be more human.