The Birth of Venus
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Name of "The Painter"?
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Yeah, but, correct me if I'm wrong but if I rememeber correctly at the end it says his name was Michelangelo. :)
That's why I need to know! I feel like his name was very important but I don't know what it is! Haha.
Yeah, I think it was Michelangelo, because that's why he was allowed to stay with her in the convent, because he was a famous painter. But if you have the book, have a look towards the end, as I think it's there that it's mentioned.
Hmmm... Okay. Wasn't Michelangelo off sculpting at that young of an age? How would he be able to hang around a convent for so many year? I'm definitely not knowledgeable on Michelangelo so correct me if I'm wrong.
Really? ok i don't know then, I suggest looking towards the end of the book...
Veronica wrote: "Hmmm... Okay. Wasn't Michelangelo off sculpting at that young of an age? How would he be able to hang around a convent for so many year? I'm definitely not knowledgeable on Michelangelo so correc..."
He was only at the convent for about a week... I am pretty sure they alluded to his being Michelangelo without ever addressing his actual name... I have to go back to the book to be sure, but I think Ucello was referencing a place? Anyway, I don't remember him being referred to as anything but "the painter" through the entire novel.
Yes, it is Michelangelo. Alessandra does say that at the end. Pretty amusing, since rumor has it that Michelangelo was gay, like Alessandra's husband. Presumably why the author has M. picked up, at one point, for that very crime (yes, it was a crime in those days).Don't get me started on the painter. Why Alessandra, who otherwise appears to be an intelligent human being, gives him the time of day is beyond me....
Talk about the seductive power of art!
C.P. wrote: "Yes, it is Michelangelo. Alessandra does say that at the end. Pretty amusing, since rumor has it that Michelangelo was gay, like Alessandra's husband. Presumably why the author has M. picked up, at..."Yeah, I didn't much understand the attraction. He just seemed crazy and dirty the whole time to me...
Not to mention running in the other direction whenever she was around. Until he suddenly isn't, which doesn't evoke even a soupcon of suspicion in Ms. A....
The name of the painter was DaVinci he was the only artist who actually left Florence for Paris with his most famous painting that he kept for a lifetime, the Mona Lisa. he was supposed to turn it over to a wealthy merchant but never did. much like the tattoo he had imprinted himself on her soul only to be seen as such at her death. A French convent of sorts a life long and faithful relationship with the ideas and ideals painted on the soul of the partners. The snake the garden of Eden the merchant killed healthcare Hippocrates etc. Michangelo had David but Davinci knew the woman missing at the table and that Mary left for France, as such my thoughts are it could only have been him as Michangelo returned to Florence but Davinci only visited Florence and Milan before leaving for Paris with his masterpiece. Lady Liberty breathes life into a nation as does the Mona Lisa as she now watches over her Islamic wing day and night.
Af56me.com wrote: "The name of the painter was DaVinci he was the only artist who actually left Florence for Paris with his most famous painting that he kept for a lifetime, the Mona Lisa. he was supposed to turn it ..."Uh... That was very confusing.
Not so confusing, she left Florence kind of like Mary Magdalen. The woman missing from the table, or Michangelo if you prefer. But the snake Adams and eve hippocrates oath and health and healing! Love before money and she was faithful to the end. That confuses you? The Mona Lisa stayed with Leonardo his entire life discovered on his death in France. The brother? Well who knows but a bit of imagery. Modern look is now the Mona Lisa looks out over the new Islamic wing of the louvre with its veiled welcoming portrait of Mohammed. The intertwining of art religion and politics still continues now as then, who was Savonarola of our age?
If you read the opening chapters closely, the painter is from a 'northern' country, is described as looking decidedly non-Italian to Alessandra, and can only communicate with her in Latin when he arrives - he cannot be any of the Italian artists referenced in the book (Michelangelo, da Vinci, Botticelli, Uccello, etc.). I assumed he was Flemish, although I'm probably off on that - either way, he certainly can't be Michelangelo, since M. is explicitly referred to as the 'nemesis' of the painter towards the end of the book (he is the sculptor who got the painter into working with corpses).
Dina wrote: "If you read the opening chapters closely, the painter is from a 'northern' country, is described as looking decidedly non-Italian to Alessandra, and can only communicate with her in Latin when he a..."Apologies. You are quite correct. The text is confusing, but when I reread the paragraph on p. 368, which I originally read as giving (finally!) the painter's name, it actually says the opposite: that Michelangelo was the nemesis of Alessandra's painter.
But Leonardo was not Flemish, was he? So perhaps the painter is, indeed, entirely fictional. A jerk, still, but fictional....
The real problem with this book, IMO, is that Cristoforo—not the narrator, and certainly not the painter—is the most interesting character.
One person's view.
Af56me.com wrote: "Not so confusing, she left Florence kind of like Mary Magdalen. The woman missing from the table, or Michangelo if you prefer. But the snake Adams and eve hippocrates oath and health and healing! L..."Your ideas and typing was just all over the place. I couldn't keep up. That's what I meant.
C.P. wrote: "Dina wrote: "If you read the opening chapters closely, the painter is from a 'northern' country, is described as looking decidedly non-Italian to Alessandra, and can only communicate with her in La..."I was also (very!) confused, at multiple points in the narrative! I think I only caught it because I had to reread that section two or three times.
the painter IS NOT da Vinci... on page 372, the painter and his daughter are talking about a "wise" and "modern" painter named Leonardo da Vinci, and the painter/father says he nad never heard of him. the painter IS NOT Michelangelo as Alessandra and the painter discuss the wooden cricifix... nor is the painter Domeico Ghirlandaio as someone else wrote, Alessandra and her mother saw Ghirlandaio's works when Alessandra was 10 and no reference was made to him being known to the family.
Dina wrote: "If you read the opening chapters closely, the painter is from a 'northern' country, is described as looking decidedly non-Italian to Alessandra, and can only communicate with her in Latin when he a..."THANK YOU! When I found this line of discussion, I was amazed that folks had skimmed the book so loosely as to forget that the Painter came from a watery, gray landscape in the distant north. Michelangelo was famously born Florentine (and later relocated to Rome, never London), and Da Vinci is cited late in the book as a recent arrival in the art world.
On the other hand, there are several Flemish (Dutch) contemporaries of Michelangelo upon whom the author might have built her character: Jan Gossart, Jan van Scorel, Pieter Coecke van Aelst, Maarten van Heemskerck, Bartholomeus Spranger, Dionijs Calvaert, and Paul Bril. Van Heemskerck's style, emphasizing anatomical detail, is thought by art historians to clearly demonstrate Michelangelo's impact. That ties in neatly with the artist group's night-time visits to the morgue.
like say Milan? The distant dreary north and oh the way she left for a french life of happiness love and faithfulness. Some say a nun I prefer the term bride of Christ kind of like that missing Magdalien in that picture. Or maybe a Mathilda type of romance after she figured out the old guy with more money wasnt where she should be but sitting around a table getting paid just to talk like Davinci in France. A home,the girl, a happy marriage and getting paid by the king 700 crowns a year just to talk. I have my thoughts and Milan is cold and a bit dreary in winter sometimes or artistic license about Sforza and his gag,e that Leonardo wooed, petting her pure ermine, no wonder they Leonardo's girls smile.
when they say northern I think they mean more northern Italy, rather than Flemish. the monks he lived with spoke Latin, so he must have lived somewhere in the HRE. he definitely wasn't michaelangelo or Botticelli, as both are mentioned but not recognized by Alessandra.
Doubtful when they say from the North, the was no Italy, and if he was Milanese the only place north of Florence would have said that, Michangelos David a ceiling painter extraordinaire. Honey, I think the ceiling needs to be painted. As to Flemish possibly he might have also done the girl with the pearl earing, in that case but my guess Leonardo and took the Mona Lisa with him, the one smiling while the little sicki was always asking for help.
Dont Ask Dont Tell keep it a secret and stay locked up in the cave. I believe thats the English/London version while the French version is in the sunlight and never goes into that web of lies. I say a youthful DaVinci who understood the big picture. Cecchi one no rules of your own to play by this time around or its locked in the cave with only memories and pictures of what might have been. Still think my version of the actual french nun better but La Perla ou Victorias Secret
Veronica wrote: "Af56me.com wrote: "Not so confusing, she left Florence kind of like Mary Magdalen. The woman missing from the table, or Michangelo if you prefer. But the snake Adams and eve hippocrates oath and he..."Well, I didn't think her post made any sense either. It's pretty rambling.
Fra Fillipo Lippi was one of her favorite artists he too ran off from a monastery with a nun he was painting. I still think DaVinci was probable but with a Lippi touch since I think she went to France with the painter.
I think the painter is meant to be a composite of multiple people, including Artemisia Gentileschi's father. Timeline wise, they don't quite line up right for the events of the story, and there's this Flemish mention at the beginning that isn't suitable. But towards the end, the author notes "the painter" travels to France and England and his daughter helps him to paint while there, which is something Artemisia Gentileschi did actually do.
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Was it Ucello?