The Postman Always Rings Twice (Dec. 07)

[Robert]

Don't worry Fostergrants (or whoever's behind them these days..) that's Internet time for you. Everything's happening all at once but it's really not happening at all.. You're only as real as your last post...

[Kimley]

Oh, Fostergrants, I feel your pain! Take consolation in knowing that once you get the book, it's a very quick read.

Alison, loved the Chandler on Cain quote especially the "Proust in greasy overalls". Personally, I'm not really sure I'd consider that an insult... So does that mean that it would take a donut to jumpstart his memory instead of the famed madeleine???

I watched the Lana Turner/John Garfield Postman last night and I have to say it's also quite good. I'm still a bit more partial to Visconti but there's some really good stuff in this one too. It's definitely a closer adaptation of the book. And for those of you inclined towards leggy blonds - that opening shot of Lana Turner is killer. Lipstick rolling on the floor, pan to her legs and what an outfit! And you can't beat the beautiful, soulful bad boy John Garfield. Yeah... I enjoyed it. And the DVD has an interesting bio segment on Garfield as well. It made me want to read more about him.

[Tony]

In your discussion on crime fiction, I noticed that you left off two prolific writers whose excellent books have become very good films. I’m thinking of Elmore Leonard and the pulp fiction writer Jim Thompson.

Thompson wrote The Killer Inside Me, The Grifters, the Getaway and After Dark My Sweet. Of that quartet, After Dark My Sweet is probably the least well known, but the best book/movie. The original screen version of The Getaway is a solid piece of movie making with Sally Struthers turning in a minor role before fame found her. Thompson also went onto Hollywood where he collaborated with Stanley Kubrick on a couple of movies.

When I read Cain, I was reminded of Elmore Leonard and his ability to nail the dialogue of the grimmer side of life. For a while, there had been a flurry of mostly forgettable Leonard movies, though a recent few have hit the mark, like Out of Sight, Get Shorty and Jackie Brown (Tarantino’s take on Rum Punch). Both Jackie Brown and Out of Sight were well directed and acted. Even Jennifer Lopez found a role she couldn’t butcher.

Of the two American versions of The Postman, give me the first one any day. It’s truer to the novel’s dark style and sense of inevitability. Mamet’s screenplay in the second movie takes liberties with the novel that I’m not sure help the story. While he opens up the movie, it drags, pulled back by the weight of unnecessary scenes and an odd need to show that Frank and Cara were in love and more than the animals mentioned above. In trying to invest the Frank and Cara with some traits worthy of loving, he cut out the parts that made them commit a heinous crime twice. These aren’t lovable people, which was okay for Cain and the first version of the movie, but apparently Mamet didn’t see it that way.

[Gary]

from L. A. Exile: A Guide to Los Angeles Writing 1932–1998:

Cain explained his decision to work, and his failure to be successful, as a screenwriter:

I wanted the picture money. I worked like a dog to get it. I parked my pride, my aesthetic convictions, my mind outside on the street, and did everything to be a success at this highly paid trade. I studied the "Technique" of moving pictures. I did everything to become adept at them. The one thing I could not park was my nose. My dislike of pictures went down to my guts, and that's why I couldn't write them.

[Tosh]

The Mamet screenplay is really kind of boring. And I usually like his OWN works. "House of Cards," etc. Jim Thompson is not my favorite noir guy, but he is a really interesting writer and character. His work with Kubrick is really interesting. Kubrick really had a sense of genius in getting interesting people to work with him . Weegee (he shot the stills for Dr. Strangelove), Thompson, Southern, Nabokov, etc.

[Robert]

No argument with Tony's endorsement on Thompson. "The Killer Inside Me" is one of the flat-out sickest, scariest books I've ever read... (Interesting noir fun-fact: Thompson has a cameo as a judge in the 1975 film of Chandler's "Farewell, My Lovely.")
I like much of Elmore Leonard (but I actually prefer his Westerns) but he strikes me as having a much greater sense of humor than Cain. Also very reminiscent of Cain is the greatly underrated Charles Willeford.

[Tony]

I'll pick up Willeford.

For the record, I, too, love Mamet and when I saw his name roll by in the opening credits, I thought I was in for treat. But the dialogue lacked the rapid fire, interlocked patter that has made him famous.

The other big flaw was that his script left out the much of the characters’ motivation. I thought it was just me because I’d read the book and saw the Garfield/Turner version of the movie, but a quick survey of reviewer comments on Amazon.com shows that I am not alone. Those Amazonians lauded period setting for the film and the sex scenes, but for me that latter was passionless, like a fake gas log fire, all light and little heat.

In the 1946 version of the film you know for certain that Cara and Frank would attempt murder – twice – for love. In the later film, not so much. Mamet, in trying to humanize Cara and Frank so we could learn to at least like the murderers, lost their edginess that successfully drove the plot in the book and earlier film.

Don’t get me wrong. As I said before, I love Mamet and will watch almost anything he does, because even if the story drags, his verbal patter sparkles. Like early Tarantino, it doesn’t resemble real speech, but does mimic the rhythm of conversation. Besides, it was his first credit in moviedom. (He wrote the script for the verdict before this, but it did get to the big screen until the following year.)

My final observation before I shut up is that I love how the 1946 version of the film gets the law in the picture early. Frank rides into town with the D.A. and meets the cop before he ever sets foot in the diner. Even the cop is scared of the D.A. Franks being fitted for the noose before he thinks about the crime. A nice touch that sets the twin wheels of doom and inevitability in place before the late comers have even settled in their seats.

So I lied, one more thing: kudos to those who picked this book and film combo. Lots to talk about and see. Thanks.

[Paul]

Dunno abt anyone else, but I thought Altman did a great job on "Thieves Like Us.'' I don't include Cain in this category, but I thnk a lot of the noir folks (Jim Thompson, even Willeford) to some extent are overrated as writers by people who are attracted to the sensibility, tho the prose doesn't justify it. Altman's post-modern "Long Goodbye'' brilliant, of course, tho the movie and book were great, too. "After Dark, My Sweet'' better as movie than book (check out Jason Patric and Jennifer Jason Leigh in "Rush,'' too. Does anyone really think Goodis' version of "Shoot The Piano Player'' was better than Truffaut's? This not a response/critique to Robert, just an overall observation.

[Leith]

I also recommend Charles Willeford -- great stuff. Try Kiss Your Ass Goodbye, Pick-Up, Cockfighter or Miami Blues. There are several film adaptations of his work also -- Miami Blues, The Woman Chaser, and my personal fave, Cockfighter (another Monte Hellman/Warren Oates collaboration). Willeford also published a couple of memoirs that are worth checking out if you can find them -- I Was Looking for a Street and Something About a Soldier.

[Nikki]

Cockfighter is one of those rare instances where I can't decide whether I like the book or the movie more--they're both just so darn good. Another one is A Hell of a Woman (adapted as Serie Noire) by Jim Thompson.

[Robert]

"Cockfighter" is a small masterpiece - "Huckleberry Finn" if it had been written for the pulp industry. (The movie is good, but not in the same class as the book...)

[Tosh]

I really like how Goodis puts the reader (well, at least me) in this world which I feel probably doesn't exist - but only in one's mind. I like all of Goodis' work more than the films based on his novels.

[Fostergrants]

well i finished the book and the lana turner version movie last night. there was a handy trailer on the disk for the 1981 lange/nicholson version...i have to admit that jessica lange gives me an itchy rash so i'm hoping this does not completely turn my objectivity askew. i do think, just from the trailer, that the '81 version might be a bit rougher which to me is closer to the book - we'll see!

[Fostergrants]

did we finish this thread? am i a late bloomer? oh well...i read the book and watched all three versions so fuckitall i'm gonna follow through!

in order of likes

1. the book
2. ossessione
3. lana turner version
4. jack nicholson version

i enjoyed the book. never read anything quite like it but i enjoyed the style for something different and all that talk about hellcats was lovely. the ways that each movie tiptoed around the book's racism was interesting. the ossessione version actually had some passion and sweat in it and i enjoyed the locations and extra characters more (you're right tosh, the gay element was nice and it added some real depth to the drifter). the nora character in ossessione was the best, the way she hangs her head and the exhaustion in her face - reminded me of a silent film actress. the little opera bit was a very nice touch as well and reinforced the emotion in the film. the lana turner version was a great piece of film but the characters were too flat for me, the drifter guffawed and kissed ass a bit too much and the greek was too likeable. the jack nicholson version, well i disliked it very much. the drifter was supposed to be beautiful - jack is not, and he's too much of a windbag to believe a hellcat would spend so much time getting into his pants. that character needs to be someone younger, more tempting, and much HOTTER! i also think jessica lange has the passion of a stinky sock so seeing her with jack was just "eww". that is my two cents.

[Alison]

Nice, fostergrants! I'm with you in the ranking, except I didn't see the Jack version.

1. The book was awesome, and what separated it to me from other books with a similar story was the grit, the realism, and the fact that the two main characters seemed to enjoy biting, and foreplay included beating the crap out of each other at the scene of their own inflicted homicide. They were nuts and perfectly matched in their nuttiness. And that was funny to me.

2. What was fresh about the book seemed to be everything that was left out of the Lana Turner adaptation. Lana Turner was perfectly coiffed and polished, walking in the room for the first time looking like a pin-up poster. James Garfield was clean-shaven & baby-faced, stepping off the truck that he'd been hitchhiking on. That first kiss (and I was watching for it)--no biting. Haha. I understand that none of those elements would have gotten past the censors in those days. So be it. It was nice, for what it was. Pretty, polished, Hollywoodized version of the book.

3. Obssessione captured a little more of the grit, the reality of these desperate lives. The main characters were pretty, but dirty, and you believed that they were miserable. Regardless of being linked to this novel, this stands alone as an interesting film--the Italianization of it (the bicycles, the settings, the language) was fresh and interesting to me. Props to the director for getting the overtly homosexual character past the censors. He created more of a conflict to the story--in that Frank had more of a choice to make--life on the road with this guy, or domesticated life with Cora.

Fostergrants, if you're listening, who do you think would make a nice Frank & Cora out of today's actors & actresses?

[Fostergrants]

right off the top of my head...i loved the movie 'true romance' with patricia arquette and christian slater. i know they are not really cureent actors but for crazy lovers those two were good in that film. also, if you could roll back the clock i think viggo mortensen and helena bonham carter would work with anthony hopkins as the husband.

[David]

I loved The Italian version and the Garfield-Turner film (even though Lana was very different physically then in the book). The book' language is great. Love some of the dialouge.

[Juan]

Visconti is my favorit.