The Count of Monte Cristo
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Is this really THAT good?
message 51:
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Bud
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rated it 5 stars
Jul 03, 2012 08:32AM
I read this as a teenager and remember loving it. Therefore I based my ratings on my experience.
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I just finished reading this book and while I thoroughly enjoyed it (I read it over the course of the weekend, doing NOTHING except sleeping and eating when necessary - that was how caught up I was). That being said, I still had some problems throughout the book - the intricate social and geographical relations of the characters, both of Dante's generation and the next generation, that lend themselves to the Count's revenge is clearly too coincidental to be realistic. However, my pure shock and astonishment at discovering these relationships, despite the lack of realism, was very real and can't be discounted by me. Thus, the author accomplished his goal, which was keeping me engaged (although rolling my eyes or shaking my head at some points). Some characters felt incredibly real to me, and others felt incredibly shallow and one dimensional. If any one character really "grew" and developed during this novel, for me, it was Albert. He starts off as a typical young man of high social standing, who even when abducted can laugh lightly at the situation, so sure is he of his wealth and status. Throughout the novel, we see his fall and the various emotions that accompany it. We experience his panic, fear and despair at the thought of his family's reputation being dragged through the gossip mills, and then the horrible realization that the gossip is actually fact, and then the moment when the facts become known to the public and his varying reactions and developments from something of a dandy to, in essence, a responsible and brave young man who is willing to take on a whole new world. In contrast, the description of Fernard and his evolution to becoming de Morcerf and then his fall is left very very very regrettably bare. I thought this was the character that I would have loved to see more of. Danglars and Villecroft, from their introduction to their end, I definitely felt like I got to know them, their values, their moods, the motives, although, like most of the characters, they were either largely "good" or "bad". ie I was continuously annoyed by Valentine and her large doe eyed innocent virtue (roll eyes) but not annoyed enough that I begrudged her her happiness.
To me, the novel also felt unresolved by ending with Dantes and Haydee sailing off into the grand beyond. Whatever happened to all the love and devotion Dantes had for Mercedes? I would truly love for anyone to explain their interpretation of this - I get that Mercedes "betrayed" Dantes and I'm even willing to overlook the ridiculous expectation and implication that Mercedes should have remained alone and virginal and pure till the end of all days after her lover's death (roll eyes lol) - BUT I don't understand how Dantes, who can expect such devotion, can so easily lose the love he had for her? And then, in an even weirder twist, he devotes himself to a mere child (Haydee) who, has had no oppurtunity or chance to even "prove" herself or her love to Dantes - in the same situation, would she have actually killed herself if she thought her lover dead and is this the "best" response to a lover's death? As I said, I'm open to and curious about other's interpretations of this part of the novel.
Monte Cristo himself annoyed me to no end with his never-ending arrogance, wealth and ridiculous ideas that he was a tool of god (roll eyes once more - clearly my eyes got a good workout, as well as my imagination), but I feel that enough reviews have touched on that. (That said, I loved Monte Cristo best when he was acting some well thought out part in order to lure his prey in, scenes in which he planted ideas but then removed himself from being associated with supporting them ie scenes with Prince Andrea about the marriage to Eugenie) I personally felt that the first part of the book was definitely the most heartfelt, reflective and philosophical on the state of man personally.
All the revenge that occurred was well written, well deserved and largely entertaining (once one got over the many unrealistic coincidences lol) and clearly reeled me in - I was definitely caught up and so would have to rate this book highly just because it did what any good book should do - kept me captivated, questioning, engaged and wanting to know more.
Ruth, thank you very much! You have more or less described what I felt but obviously could not put in words as well as you could.
I read this book as an adult about two years ago. I really enjoyed many parts of it, but I did feel that thre were parts that could have been trimmed and that would have helped the plot flow a little easier. However, that's just one writer's opinion! Who am I to quibble with Dumas?I'm not sure I would rate it a 5 star book though.
If you don’t think this book is that great, I can understand that, some peeps like long books, others don’t like it. Some people dislike that there’s not the super happy ending where the count gets his wife back, Meh I liked that there was some realism here and too much water had passed under that bridge,But the real point of the COMC getting 5/5 is its historical perspective. This is a book that pretty much set the standard for Revenge/redemption plots, If you look into its history it’s not sure who really came up with the story, it’s pretty much a given that it was a spoken story that Dumas finalised and published.
Look at the IMDB top 250 films some time, some of them really don't age too well, but you don’t judge them against modern HD graphics, You marvel in the turning point of cinematography, Top stories, New genes, Great direction Etc,
I've read all of Harry potter, they are enjoyable books, but I have to give it to JK for really reintroducing a generation to magical fantasy.
Some things are just game changers, and COMC is one of them.
It was absolutely magical when I first read it---at about age 13; I suspect if I re-read it now, nostalgia would play into my ratings somewhat, but I hope I would find the magic, anew.
Yes, but the Three Musketeers is better.
Karen wrote: "Yes, but the Three Musketeers is better."Really? I have it on my too read list. Now I'll have to put it on the top! I'm just afraid to read it since so many versions of the movie have come out. I hate reading a book after seeing the movie. I hope it is much different like the COMC was.
I thought it was an amazing novel. I love to find small bits of philosophy in books and this novel definitely provides alot to think about.
I read this book (in Russian) more than once when growing up in Russia. The story of escape was absolutely fascinating to me as a child and a bit scary too...:) People, start reading young, then you will be less disappointed with any books. Your heart becomes better from reading and it expands your horizons like no movies or classes can. That's all I have to say.
It's actually a classic..It was written by someone who lived in a time where getting to the next country can takes years..what's so fascinating abt the book is that irregardless of space and time..people can be such a@#holes and good always truimphs..besides I like Totstoy..he's a magnificent writer...
Caroline Starr wrote: "YES>"Thanks..it isn't that easy writing something that people actually read..much less create something that people will be reading for years..hehe..
The main points I was trying to make in my argument earlier is that 1) The rating is completely subjective, and most people rate based on their enjoyment, not how well they think it was written. I could very well give a Dr. Seuss book a 5 or, say, Shakespeare's Hamlet. The two are obviously on different literary levels, but you can enjoy them equally 2) I don't understand the whole "make me understand why you think this book is good" because it quite literally comes down to, the parts that you didn't like, I did, or I liked more than you. Any more depth to that answer would just be a book review. "Here's why you should read it", and "this is what I got out of it." And even this is subjective and can differ greatly from person to person, because we each take out of what we read differently.
Will, >"2) I don't understand the whole "make me understand why you think this book is good" because..."
The problem is, Will, that when I asked you directly about the aspects of the book you liked, the only answers I got were "yes", without much more explanation. Both you and I liked the book. That you liked it more than I did we both understand. I was just curious about why you (and others) liked it so much. I really don't understand what is so hard to understand about this.
Perhaps a better rating system would be a more complex system, where you can rate the plot, characters, style, level of enjoyment (?) etc separately.
Marius wrote: "the only answers I got were "yes", without much more explanation... I was just curious about why you (and others) liked it so much. I really don't understand what is so hard to understand about this."I explained why that would be a futility in effort. The only way I could explain "yes" to my answers would be to get the book out and start citing specific examples.
I would rather not write a book report on what I got out of this novel.
Cheryl wrote: "it has to be something that resonates with your soul. And that will be something different for every single reader.If you want to rate things based on critical examination of plot, character development and the like, all you do is destroy the beauty of the story - which is why books are written in the first place, to tell a story."
This so much.
Will and Cheryl,Please see the post by Ruth somewhere above. Something like that post would be great, and certainly much better than just "yes". I don't think Ruth has destroyed "the beauty of the story" by writing her comment.
If you don't want to write more than "yes" that's fine, but in that case it's even better to write nothing, IMHO. And if you are going to call people "ridiculous" I would appreciate it if you just don't comment at all.
I've always thought the way Dumas drew from his own experiences and time to create what is in my opinion the greatest revenge story of all time was phenominal. Definitely one of my top few books of all time! The movie was pretty rubbish, though, and I love Guy Pierce as much as the next person!
The post you are referring to was posted by someone who just finished the novel, and so had examples fresh in her mind. What you are asking for is a book report because you are asking for specific examples explaining why I answered "yes" to the questions you answered "no" to.Since Ruth has met your strict criteria on what kind of response you are looking for, I suppose your question has been answered, and you can just refer to her post whenever you question why someone would rate this book highly.
Will, are you saying I should be happy with just "yes" because people can't give a single specific example from a book they liked so much? If you call this "strict criteria" I think I would hate to imagine any form of discussion you have in real life.This is a discussion, Will, not a multiple choice test. When I started it I didn't imagine that the majority of people would answer with 1) Yes, 2) No, 3) None of the above.
Again, Will, if you are going to reply like a computer with binary answers, it is better not to comment at all. Same thing if you are going to nag forever about not being able to understand why I asked this question.
Bye bye.
"Will, are you saying I should be happy with just "yes" because people can't give a single specific example from a book they liked so much?"I'm pretty sure there have been many examples presented in this thread. But then you said "Sadly, at present I still haven't seen any comment here that convinced me."
????
You are asking to be convinced, to be shown that people are rating this a 5 and that their reasons are justifiable according to your standards. That. is. ridiculous.
One of my comments to you:"You are right in saying that I am not looking to be convinced it was amazing. I am trying to understand why others thought is was. I don't think there is anything ridiculous about that."
Congratulations, Will, you are now officially in my "to ignore" list. You are the first one on Goodreads to get there! Well done!
I love it when people stick their fingers in their ear and say, "la la la la!"
"I am trying to understand why others thought is was. I don't think there is anything ridiculous about that."Here is what you are failing to understand. "Trying to understand why others thought it was" a 5/5 is the same thing as asking for people to explain to you their justifications, which you are basing on your own criteria for how people should rate books.
Every single person is different. This is completely subjective. Some people will love this book for completely different reasons than I might love this book, and these reasons aren't going to set off a lightbulb in a person's head that doesn't like this book and say "Oh, so you thought the plot was well executed, I guess I understand now!"
The problem is you haven't been clear from the beginning exactly what you are asking. At first, you asked to be convinced based on your own rating criteria which I've shown to be fallacious. Then you say, you aren't asking to be convinced, you just want to understand... What is their to understand?
Well, this thread has become very silly in an awful hurry. In that vein, I would like to add my own silly comment.I don't much care for mushrooms. They have a one-dimensional taste without a lot of depth, and I get bored of eating them after the first handful. I give mushrooms a 3/5. A lot of people I know, however, really like mushrooms. They point out how mushrooms have influenced cuisine around the world, and that the many varieties can lend mushrooms an endless range of tastes. They give mushrooms a 5/5. They rant on about the velvet creaminess of a good mushroom soup on the palate, and they won't stop about how a meaty portobello is more fulfilling than a steak. I would much rather have steak. Why would anybody rate mushrooms higher than a steak?
This discussion doesn't seem much different than my quibble with mushrooms. I don't really like them, and no amount of convincing is going to change the effect of my tastebuds. You can tell me all the reasons why you like mushrooms so much, but the best I can ever say is, "Hmmm. That's all very interesting, but I still don't see why you would rate mushrooms 5/5." It's a losing proposition from every perspective but my own--a rigged discussion, so to speak.
The opening post for this thread says, "If you rate this book 5/5, what rating will you give to better books?" That is equivalent to asking, "If you rate mushrooms 5/5, what rating will you give to better food (like steaks)?" Not only is that incredibly subjective, but a 5/5 rating would never be given if people were always saving it for something "better".
Marius: You stated that the only book you have ever rated 5/5 was Tolstoy's War and Peace. What will happen when you read a better book than War and Peace?
Great post, Daniel.
Well said Daniel, and stated more reasonably than I. I just don't have patience sometimes.
LOL well this spiraled down fast... As in, I don't get what the problem is and why the tone of this thread is so condescending. Yes a book is subjective, but clearly, being able to give a critical review of a book also may help someone understand or see or feel out an idea, character, theme or explanation of the book and thus make it better. I've read books that I thought were dense and ridiculous (Heart of Darkness) but after an explanation or review, I have been shown a different perspective and realized whatever beauty may lay within it and changed my opinion about it. Isn't that the point of literary critiques? ie I would still like an explanation for why Dante ended up w/ Mercedes in the end - that doesn't mean I don't understand what was written/the time period it was written in/male perspective it was written through etc but that doesn't mean someone can't come along and give another perspective that may or may not change the way I think about it. If you think its worth your time to share, then please do so. If not, then don't waste your time and mine bickering over how much one or the other liked it or didn't like it. It's not that difficult to UNDERSTAND how someone may want an explanation for why a book is liked or despised beyond "its a classic" and "i just liked it". What there is to "understand" is other people's opinion. You personally may not have anything to say other than "i loved it" but if someone else is seeking something more and you can't offer anything more, why are you still commenting?
Ruth, because OP was being unreasonable, both in the criteria he uses in rating (and expecting others to follow suite, i.e. "But, to give a book a score of 5/5 also implies that there is no book you can give a higher score. You apparently gave this book 5/5, which suggests you found it was amazing, and that you think you will never encounter a better book.") and in his expectations for an explanation in order to "understand" (i.e. "I again feel I really don't get what makes this book get such high ratings"). Basically, the OP seems to want a book review. Why, there are thousands of reviews, dissections of the text and analysis, and perspectives on its literary value and influence out there online. The OP still wants more explained on how someone could give this a 5/5?
Very well said, Ruth. I think you have been the only person in this entire discussion who has actually taken the time to write down some lines supporting your opinion. I would almost be willing to pay some cash by now to see a similar comment by someone who rated the book 5/5.Hey, maybe I missed something while reading this book? Maybe what I thought were ridiculous coincidences were in fact no such things at all? Maybe the bad characters were much more complex than what I had imagined so far? If my intellectual capabilities do not know the concept of the "velvet creaminess of a good mushroom soup", how am I ever going to appreciate it if no one is apparently allowed to discuss tastes?
Had I known I would end up wasting my (and everyone's) time by having to deal with some obnoxious persons who absolutely refuse to take even a few seconds to write down a few paragraphs (oh dear god, "a book review", the horror!!) supporting their opinion, I would not have started this discussion in the first place. It's no better than youtube comments!
So I guess I have to feel satisfied with the answers
"yes", "to each their opinion", "it's a classic, period", and "your question is ridiculous", 4 answers that could have been written by any 8 year-old. All roads seem to lead to "no discussion allowed".
>but if someone else is seeking something more and you can't offer anything more, why are you still commenting?
Exactly. Notice how I even asked some person several times to stop commenting if he had nothing more to contribute. I notice that even now he is still continuing, though I can't see the content of his comments. What is it that drives a person to such efforts to prevent any discussion from starting, rather than just write a descent comment, or rather than not writing anything at all? It is beyond me.
Anyway, I will re-read the Count in the near future. Perhaps I will be able to appreciate it more when reading it a second time, although it will be no thanks to 90% of the people who commented here.
Am I not continuing a discussion by responding to your questions? I would argue that by continuing to comment, I am continuing a discussion, and providing others to voice their opinions as well. I find it extremely immature that you would ignore me because I disagree with your reasonings. I am merely pointing out the absurdity of your own questions. If you had said "What are your thoughts on this book?" this would have led to a more productive discussion. Instead, you have asserted you own rating criteria which you would instill on everyone else, and asked for an explanation for why someone could like this more than you!
Marius wrote: "Hey, maybe I missed something while reading this book?" Probably not. It's a pretty basic book without much to miss.
Marius wrote: "Maybe what I thought were ridiculous coincidences were in fact no such things at all?"
Nope. They were totally ridiculous coincidences. Quite often, as the novel progressed, they veered towards absolutely ludicrous territory.
Marius wrote: "Maybe the bad characters were much more complex than what I had imagined so far?"
Again, a big nope. Completely one-dimensional to provide a straw-man foil for the Count. But GOD did I ever feel good when the Count demolished them!
Did any of these flaws detract from my enjoyment of the book? Not one little bit. In fact, it gave the story a campy feel that bumped up the fun level for me. Now, I didn't give it a 5/5, but would you accept my argument if I did so purely on a level of intellectually limpid enjoyment? Because really, that's the crux of the argument. You seem to want a literary masterpiece. I just want fun. Chances are that "90% of the people who commented here" just want fun as well.
I think most of us are more than willing to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of this book, but your original question is all about ratings: "I really can't understand how people can rate it 5/5.... There are many books that are better than this one, IMHO. If you rate this book 5/5, what rating will you give to better books? For this reason, I can not give this book more than 3/5." Ergo, the discussion about ratings and not the book itself. I imagine it's also why people are taking it as a personal attack against their taste ("poor" being implied).
I'm still not sure what sort of discussion you are after, but perhaps some very specific questions would elicit a better response than ranting about how people aren't answering to your satisfaction. I would be more than happy to discuss, but I honestly have no idea what you are really asking.
Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate your comment. Reading it, however, I wondered why you decided to read this book, and not another one, if the main purpose is to "just have fun". Is it a natural choice to pick a book counting >1000 pages, written almost 200 years ago? If you are just looking for fun, you could have easily picked 3 or 4 recent novels and finished them in the same amount of time. You could also have had more fun talking about them (in case you enjoy discussion novels, that is), since arguably more people around you would have read them recenly.
For me, I ultimately judge a book on how much I enjoyed it. So, in that sense, how much "fun" I had reading it. Now, this might entail being overcome with a sense of transcendence through intellectual inquiry from the author, or pondering upon some deeply philosophical challenges or truths, or just plain enjoying the story/plot. So, being challenged intellectually can be just as fun in many instances as a "fluff" novel, or one which does not challenge my views. But at each turn, a book's worth for me ultimately boils down to enjoyment or "fun."The length of a book, or the date on which it was written, has no relevance to my expectations for enjoyment, and to go into a book with a judgment based on length or when it was written is fundamentally destructive. "Don't judge a book by it's cover," as the axiom goes, is relevant here.
Marius wrote: "Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate your comment. Reading it, however, I wondered why you decided to read this book, and not another one, if the main purpose is to "just have fun". Is it a natural choi..."My reflex reaction to this train of thought is that it's still a presumption about what other people value, but with age and popularity substituted for ratings. You are also setting up the question as an issue of "either/or" where the options are much broader. I didn't have to choose between Monte Cristo or 3-4 recent novels while somebody held a gun to my head. It was just me deciding that I felt in the mood for something big and historic that set the rules for a new genre and had given readers pleasure for centuries. At other times, I would make the decision to read those 3-4 recent novels and discuss. At still others, I choose to read the latest fluff hitting the bestseller list. Each of these is equally fun to me, but my reading mood determines which book ultimately ends up in my hands.
As to whether it's "natural" to read an epic classic, I'll admit that got a chuckle out of me. Judging by today's culture, I don't think it's "natural" to read at all. From another point of view, I think it's perfectly natural to want to read a book known as "the one that started it all" -- just like Lord of the Rings for fantasy, or Dracula or Frankenstein for horror. The size and age of a book aren't really obstacles when they carry the weight of a reputation like that. Also, I have had plenty of fun discussions about The Count of Monte Cristo over the years, and it's never made a difference whether the person had read it recently or not. It's one of those books that just sticks with you for a lifetime (unlike many recent novels, I might add). That ability to stand out in a crowd is why I have no quibbles over people giving this book 5/5, despite the relatively flat characters and often ridiculous plot points that led you to give it a 3/5. It's all a matter of what you value in a book, which, unfortunately, runs right back to the adage of "to each their own" that you were trying to avoid...
I gave this a 5/5 also. I was reading some of the posts. Someone mentioned it is cliche at times. It only seems that way because so many people have copied it since it was written. It's definitely classic story telling.
Joel wrote: "I'm wondering how many of the "5-star" people have read the book recently. I thought there were a lot of great parts - the beginning, especially, kicks ass. But there is an awful lot of filler, and..."Joel, You have to remember that this novel was actually written as a serial, with lots of cliff-hangers, etc, to keep the readers buying each serial when it came out. Each little section is meant to be a carry over plus a story all on its own. Like a little daytime soap opera...
I loved this story, but I thought the ending was a cop out. :(
great book. no wonder - look who is the author.
Daniel wrote: “I think it's perfectly natural to want to read a book known as "the one that started it all" -- just like Lord of the Rings for fantasy, or Dracula or Frankenstein for horror.”I had to laugh, but I guess it's a common misconception that Lord of the Rings was "the one that started it all" for fantasy. If you really want to know where fantasy started you should check out the Ballantine Adult Fantasy group. Of the BAF books it would probably be something by George MacDonald, Lord Dunsany or William Morris, but many would put the roots of fantasy back to the epic of Gilgamesh.
Most people use Horace Walpole's The Castle of Otranto (1764) as the book that started it all for the horror novel and Washington Irving's The Legend Of Sleepy Hollow as the first horror story.
David: I suppose it's the nature of online communication to be misunderstood in intent, but those examples were meant to be easily-understood analogies. Where you say that "most people" see The Castle of Otranto as the precursor to the horror novel, I would counter that "most people" have never heard of it. The difference in our use of "most people" hopefully explains my choice of literature in the comment. Tolkien was the first mainstream fantasy author, and the average reader usually won't care about his predecessors without first giving Lord of the Rings a spin.My intended point was that reputation builds excitement, and that the general public is still willing to read classic novels that have remained prominent in the popular imagination. It's why I chose to read Monte Cristo, and I'm sure many others have picked it up for exactly the same reason.
Yes, it is THAT good! It shows humanity at it's best and it's worst. Dantes is somewhere in between and his struggles are well written and his heart is right.
I thought the book's ending was a pretty cheap shot. I loved the movie and so read the book; I was disappointed with the book.
Yes. Story-telling at its best.
Nathan wrote: "I thought the book's ending was a pretty cheap shot. I loved the movie and so read the book; I was disappointed with the book."I hate to agree but I do... The movie - with James Caviezel - had a lot better ending in my opinion. I think Edmond and Mercedes should have ended up together.
Yes, it is REALLY that good! I absolutely loved this book!!
One of the top ten books ever! Yes it's a five. Can't understand why anyone would see it as a 3. The book is brilliant and comes alive in so many parts.
Jamie wrote: "One of the top ten books ever! Yes it's a five. Can't understand why anyone would see it as a 3. The book is brilliant and comes alive in so many parts."So true!!! I love reading the classics for free on my Kindle and I LOVED that book. 5 stars all the way!!
I read the Count of Monte Christo when I was in my early teens and then books couldn't be long enough. I learned quickly enough that there are different versions out there. Later I got a hold of a teenager friendly version that was cut down to the basic story but I still prefer the long "adult" version. I liked the stories within the story that were intervowen with the main characters and my absolut favourite is that it doesn't have the happy ending most of the tv series and movies make happen. (it's a bit like Disney to watch). I probably gave it a 4/5 or 5/5 because I liked it.
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